DUST Search - CCP Logibro please clarify! Changing fit @ Supply Depot to get different equipme...

Rogatien Merc wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

CCP Logibro wrote:

Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on).

Glad we could put that to rest once and for all. Perhaps now we can direct our attention to suggestions from the community (logis especially but all reasoned opinions are welcome) on how they would like to see the supply depot interaction to work, and a corollary, how could uplinks be changed (not nerfed) to maybe reduce mindless spam - hate to admit it but we all know it can happen - but still keep the strategic elements and WP gain viable for dedicated logistics players.

It does work as intended for now, but if the quoted post and community sentiment are any indication , something is going to be changed. If I can get some good suggestions/discussion here I can eventually move it to a dedicated and more focused thread in the feedback section. As I said in a related thread a few weeks ago, if a change is coming, I'd rather be driving that bus instead of being thrown under it.

Suggestions I've heard in the past that make sense include jammers or a minimum radius between uplinks. I've also considered a potential skill that modestly limits the number of uplinks one person can drop as a way you could potentially limit mindless spam by other classes but keep the mechanic more or less unchanged for the dedicated logi.

Discuss.

Any "Change" to reduce uplink spam would, by definition, be a nerf. Don't even try to sugar coat that...

... that said, I support such a thing. Uplink spam is boring lol; but honestly it is uber low priority considering other issues in the game.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 105	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:42:00 - [1] - Quote So, if you have missed this monolith of a thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=110396&find=unread There is a raging debate as to whether or not the following scenario is an exploit or working as intendedGäó: - Dedicated logistics player spawns in at the beginning of game. Starting suit is equipped with (for example) Allotek drop uplinks and X-3 nanohives. He gets to appropriate location and drops them. - Once the current equipment is all dropped, runs to nearest supply depot. - Switches to another fitting that is equipped with N-11/A and P-13 uplinks. Drops those at other strategic locations. Battle rages on. Somehow nobody takes out any of the equipment he has dropped. - Makes his way to another supply depot, switches suits again, now with, I dunno, K17/D and Wyrkomi triage nanohives. Places those at some hotspots. His fully stocked team pummels the opposition. End result: This logistics player, using the supply depot, has placed 6 uplinks and 6 nanohives without dying. CCP Logibro, we need your input. Is this a bug/exploit or not? There are dev posts that give conflicting information. Please clarify!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 105	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:42:00 - [2] - Quote reserved
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 111	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:01:00 - [3] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Its technically an exploit, more of a design overlook, 1 person should not be able to deploy so much equipment on the field simultaneously. Equipment is designed to help complete an objective, its not to be spammed, we need more equipment to give us more variety and bonuses, so people consider more than just nanohives. I respectfully disagree. If CCP determines that it is an exploit, I will live with that decision, but given this mechanic has been in place for well over a year, this would mark a shift in the dev's approach. I watch with interest to see CCP's response. Sorry I meant to say not an exploit! Its an oversight I feel CCP should fix! There is no problem with restocking equipment, I personally feel you shouldn't have to switch suits to do so. But being to be able to "over" spam uplinks, hives is potentially a problem!! Monkey - I have to say, I love your approach on the forums. You seldom troll. When you disagree you do so respectfully. Thank you for that. One day, we must squad together! Appreciated by the OP as well. I would love this to be a reasoned discussion of this specific behavior, not about logistics play in general or that sort of thing. Admittedly I editorialized just a little in the second post (seriously though, have you read that thread?) but would like to keep this civilized otherwise.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 111	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:04:00 - [4] - Quote Notes: Minor edit to the OP, expanded/finished post #2. One other thing, I also should mention I am not talking about the stupid farming behavior when people spam nanohives around a supply depot. That's selfish and does nothing to advance the teams objective. Please take the scenario listed in the context of someone who is placing the equipment in locations that are at least somewhat useful.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 111	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:15:00 - [5] - Quote shaman oga wrote: From what i've understood is something like this: I have a logi with a K2 nanohive I drop my 2 hives i go to the supply depot i change suit with an assault with K2 nanohives too i drop other 2 K2 nanohives and the previous 2 do not disapper This should be fixed But if i change suit to the same suit my equipment should be resupplied like it's now and if i have different kind of nanohives (for example) i should be able to deploy them simultaneusly. The scenario you describe would clearly be a bug, and should be fixed. No questions. I suspect at some point this was happening and that is the "bug" originally referenced. What I am speaking about is, I drop 2 K-2s, go to supply depot, switch to suit with X-3's, drop the X-3's. I now have 4 hives out, 2 K-2's, 2 X-3's. This has been called an exploit by some (not me), who I assume are confusing the bug report for your scenario as referring to mine.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 113	Posted - 2013.09.22 20:49:00 - [6] - Quote emtbraincase wrote: shaman oga wrote: From what i've understood is something like this: I have a logi with a K2 nanohive I drop my 2 hives i go to the supply depot i change suit with an assault with K2 nanohives too i drop other 2 K2 nanohives and the previous 2 do not disapper This should be fixed But if i change suit to the same suit my equipment should be resupplied like it's now and if i have different kind of nanohives (for example) i should be able to deploy them simultaneusly. This isn't how it happens at all. I know this for a fact as I am one of the "nanohive spammers". I use adv gal logi suit with proto equip (always carry proto nanite, so assume it is my 3rd equip). It works like this... 1) Spawn in with initial suit containing allotek hives and a stable uplink 2) Drop the 2 allotek and the 1 uplink as allowed by description 3) switch to same/different dropsuit with wyrkomi triage and guaged nano 4) place 2 triage and 3 guaged (as allowed in their descriptions), all remain on the field 5) switch to another suit with K17/d nano and proto rep tool 6) place 2 K17's, all still remain If at any time you drop 1 of the type already in play, it will replace 1 of that type as long as max still deployed, but not any other. This is not putting out more of a hive than stated as it's limit, and it is no different than dying and spawning in with a different suit (as happens while going back and forth to depots in heat of battle). Just making sure we are all on the same page as to what some are calling an exploit. Correct
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 125	Posted - 2013.09.23 12:12:00 - [7] - Quote We are getting off topic and a bit snippy as well. Lets keep this civil and see if we can get CCP Logibro in here to clarify.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 132	Posted - 2013.09.23 22:55:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). Glad we could put that to rest once and for all. Perhaps now we can direct our attention to suggestions from the community (logis especially but all reasoned opinions are welcome) on how they would like to see the supply depot interaction to work, and a corollary, how could uplinks be changed (not nerfed) to maybe reduce mindless spam - hate to admit it but we all know it can happen - but still keep the strategic elements and WP gain viable for dedicated logistics players. It does work as intended for now, but if the quoted post and community sentiment are any indication , something is going to be changed. If I can get some good suggestions/discussion here I can eventually move it to a dedicated and more focused thread in the feedback section. As I said in a related thread a few weeks ago, if a change is coming, I'd rather be driving that bus instead of being thrown under it. Suggestions I've heard in the past that make sense include jammers or a minimum radius between uplinks. I've also considered a potential skill that modestly limits the number of uplinks one person can drop as a way you could potentially limit mindless spam by other classes but keep the mechanic more or less unchanged for the dedicated logi. Discuss.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 133	Posted - 2013.09.23 23:54:00 - [9] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Technically, this is functionally working as intended. However, this (and supply depot interaction in general) is something we would like to change (the exact details of what we will change it to are still being decided on). Glad we could put that to rest once and for all. Perhaps now we can direct our attention to suggestions from the community (logis especially but all reasoned opinions are welcome) on how they would like to see the supply depot interaction to work, and a corollary, how could uplinks be changed (not nerfed) to maybe reduce mindless spam - hate to admit it but we all know it can happen - but still keep the strategic elements and WP gain viable for dedicated logistics players. It does work as intended for now, but if the quoted post and community sentiment are any indication , something is going to be changed. If I can get some good suggestions/discussion here I can eventually move it to a dedicated and more focused thread in the feedback section. As I said in a related thread a few weeks ago, if a change is coming, I'd rather be driving that bus instead of being thrown under it. Suggestions I've heard in the past that make sense include jammers or a minimum radius between uplinks. I've also considered a potential skill that modestly limits the number of uplinks one person can drop as a way you could potentially limit mindless spam by other classes but keep the mechanic more or less unchanged for the dedicated logi. Discuss. Any "Change" to reduce uplink spam would, by definition, be a nerf. Don't even try to sugar coat that... ... that said, I support such a thing. Uplink spam is boring lol; but honestly it is uber low priority considering other issues in the game. I came around to the idea that reducing spam is not the worst thing in the world just a few days ago during a FW match with my corp. It was in that new city map where the supply depot is underground (still get lost sometimes, lol). Some idiot or idiots were running around flinging uplinks all over the damn place with no rhyme or reason. There were 2(!!) in the little room with the supply depot, one in the middle of the damn street, one in the center of an exposed stairwell, etc. Most of them were not exactly proto quality. It got to the point where I simply gave up trying to put down my higher quality uplinks in locations they might actually do some good because it was impossible to keep track or even read the map to identify areas of need like usual. More importantly though, I'm less concerned about a nerf strictly to uplinks per se than I am about a nerf to our entire class. I love the idea of something like deployable equipment jammers - drop it and any uplink or nanohive deployed within its radius pops. Does it nerf uplinks? Kinda. Does it give logis a new toy to play with and add another layer of strategy to the game ? Absolutely. I also made a proposal for an "uplink proficiency" skill in an earlier thread, but I'll save that for another post.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2013.09.24 03:23:00 - [10] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: SirManBoy wrote: As a logi who absolutely adores how the current system works, the only compromise I would be willing to make is some sort of increased map visibility for enemy troops whenever friendly equipment is too densely situated. Call it equipment noise caused by interference or something. That way people can still spam, but the enemy knows exactly where the spam pile is on their map. Combine that with WP for destroying equipment and you have a massive win-win for virtually everyone, especially scouts who would probably tend to specialize in this sort of thing (equipment search & destroy). This is an excellent idea. Achieves balance and provides an additional WP gain. No nerf necessary Trust me, I've made a very good living off of uplinks and am not pushing for a nerf, I just want to be ahead of the curve and soften the hammer's blow if it is indeed coming. If WP for destroying equipment stops the whining about uplinks, all the better. More WP and SP to go around is always better than less. I still like the idea of jammers though!

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2013.09.24 03:24:00 - [11] - Quote While I'm here, a quick word about my proposed uplink/nanohive proficiency skill. Again, I support this type of thing only if a big push is being made to reduce spam. Think of it as a more logi-friendly solution than the other (harsher) proposals floating around, like arbitrary hard team caps on deployed equipment. - At baseline, before you get uplinks to level 3, you can only have out 2 at a time. - Once you unlock the ADV links (or hives), you open up the proficiency skill. - For each level of proficency, you can have 1 more out, with a bonus at ADV and PRO tiers, like so: Uplink proficiency lvl 0: 2 uplinks Level 1: 3 Level 2: 4 Level 3: 6 (1+1 bonus for ADV level) Level 4: 7 Level 5: 10 (1+2 bonus for PRO) That way, your average player can have a couple uplinks out, but the dedicated logi can still drop 10, if he/she chooses to specialize in it. Naturally you would have to reduce/refund some of the SP invested in uplinks at present so that you are not adding a prohibitive SP cost on top of what is already needed to get to PRO uplinks. It would be unfair to force someone to invest an additional 1-2 mil SP to regain the same functionality they currently have.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 141	Posted - 2013.09.24 21:36:00 - [12] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Its mostly uplink spam that the problem is about. By no means are we hurting on logi players on this one. Its just if 1 guy can have 20 uplinks tethered to him, he isn't necessarily a logi. Now imagine 4 other guys doing the same thing, it becomes whack-a-mole, and not particularly fun! However I have heard rumors that it will change sothat if you change to suit that doesn't have your currently deployed equipment, then the equipment blows up! Which is fine because a logi can still dump half a dozen uplinks, but he now can't leave the uplink suit if he wants his team to reap the benefits, reduces spam, makes them more tactical again, now all need is the ability to jump to an uplink without dying first. Have you really been in a game with more than 20-30 uplinks active (outside of perhaps PC)? As a logi with proto uplinks, I don't bother putting down more uplinks if there are already 20-30 on the map - it's a diminishing return since you expend effort and/or suits to put that many out, and with so many to choose from, the spawn points you get will be very minimal. Where exactly has it been confirmed that your deployed equipment will pop if you do not equip a suit that possesses the same equipment? This would be a huge nerf to deployables and would have logis everywhere up in arms. It hasn't, but those kinds of crazy ideas are the type of thing I'd like to head off by coming up with ideas of our own. You know , like how a football team suspends a player presumptively when they get in trouble to head off what would probably be a longer suspension by the league, lol.