Finally, someone who actually used the weapons and understands what I've been trying to convey to people.

Starting to like the Imperfects more and more lately.

I have both to officer and I completely disagree get rid of the ******* flash I'm trying to shoot not go blind...and with more people running armor lately that's a perfect counter 80% dmg to armor, what's the counter to ar? Oh yeah nothing cuz its range is far more than its supposed to be

I have both to officer and I completely disagree get rid of the ******* flash I'm trying to shoot not go blind...and with more people running armor lately that's a perfect counter 80% dmg to armor, what's the counter to ar? Oh yeah nothing cuz its range is far more than its supposed to be

I do find the flash annoying but while it is annoying it doesnt detract from the fact that the stats on the ASCR are better than the AR. Some people may have serious issues with the flash fortunately I am able to ignore the flash mostly so it goes largely unnoticed to me.

However your perfect counter still does not hold any argument. There is 2 dmg difference....even fully upgraded with +15% dmg there is still only 2 dmg difference to armor between the proto lvls of ASCR/AR. The Optimal ranges are the same for both of these weapons.

Personally I do think it would be interesting if CCP actually made the weapons act more like their Eve counterparts and made larger differences in the range vs CQC and DPS. However I dont see them ever doing this.

I do find the flash annoying but while it is annoying it doesnt detract from the fact that the stats on the ASCR are better than the AR. Some people may have serious issues with the flash fortunately I am able to ignore the flash mostly so it goes largely unnoticed to me.

However your perfect counter still does not hold any argument. There is 2 dmg difference....even fully upgraded with +15% dmg there is still only 2 dmg difference to armor between the proto lvls of ASCR/AR. The Optimal ranges are the same for both of these weapons.

Personally I do think it would be interesting if CCP actually made the weapons act more like their Eve counterparts and made larger differences in the range vs CQC and DPS. However I dont see them ever doing this.

Oh bf4 beta? Or you don't play bf?

Stinger takes 2 now with nothing on your vehicle but all vehicles have flares so really shouldn't get hit more than once but anyways the open beta starts on the 4th or 5th closed on the 1st

ASR actualy has some major kick to it which throws off its AIm, which the AR is in dire need of. So no

I have very sensitive eyes and that **** pisses me off the people who know me know I've been waiting sinced closed beta for it and now it burns my eyes I hate the ar I've used it every build I've used md tanks forgeguns sr lr and now the scr and I can't hardly use it...and an AR is a blaster short range high damage @ aeon

Im againt the nerf on any weapon.
But as a response to Aeon, Nerf the ASCR then! ITs a piece of **** anyways.

Nobody likes it, because it costs more I$K and a LOT more SP to use than a regular AR.PLUS it has a horrible kick/recoil , horrible muzzle flash that gave my parrot epilepsy and Overheats.

Totally the same weapon....

Considering SP investment and I$K price, THe ASCR SHOULD BE VERY superior to the ARs, and as it is, a MLT Scrambler pistol scares me more...

Just saying.

If you're having trouble shelling out 7,000 ISK I feel bad for you son.

I got 99 problems but ISK ain't one.

First off: 7000ISK every 10 deaths its 70000K and im poor,please send 1-5 million over my way in good faith as you are obviously rich.

You are not following.You are putting the ASCR and the AR at the same level.They are not.

As it is they might have to have their performances reversed,so they match the requirements.

AH and i forgot the MASSIVE amount of CPU and PG the ASCR requires, which AR do not since they are cheap as f***. :3

By all means, DO NOT NERF THE AR, just BUFF THE ASCR to be better than the AR,as it should be.........

God I get so tired of explaining this...

Look, the ASCR CPU/PG requirements are because it's intended to be used on Amarr dropsuits - YOu got it wrong, there is no WEAPON designed to be used with a specific suit.The AMARR ASSAULT is designed to easier fit the ASCR.The CPU-PG cost is still massive for the ASCR and there by it should be comparably better.

And, yes, the ASCR and AR are at the same level. Same DPS, same general feel minus a few racial perks like the ASCR not having any muzzle climb, and generally the same optimal range with the ASCR having a larger fall off range. Everyone whines and complains that the AR is OP but apparently they've never gone face-to-face with a Carthum ASCR and felt that ridiculous amount of firepower. - Im not saying the AR is OP.But you are comparing to very different weapons,to be hones the only thing they have in common is that they are full auto.
As it is is like saying the HMG is the same as an AR lol.ASCR has more RECOIL and dispersion rate,something that a LASER weapon should not have , much less id AR doesnt have it...CArthum ASCR is still inferior to the Duvolle. The Duvolle hits 58 out of 60 at mid/long range while the ASCR , between the dispersion , recoil,muzzle flash , etc... doesnt.

Even then it's insanely easy to skill into because there aren't as many relative skills associated with it like the Assault Rifle.
-Making the AR a lot better,since it has more skills to perfect an already powerful weapon.

Cross that with the fact it doesn't even over heat when mashing the trigger for almost two full magazines and you've got a weapon that doesn't have any drawbacks apart from the fact that it does slightly less damage to armor than the AR (a whole 15% of 39.7 damage is a whopping 6 damage - woooo)
The weapon does overheat if you just leave R1 mashed.
OBVIOUSLY you dont sincerely think the ASCR is better nor equal than the ASCR, because you use an AR.
EVERYBODY KNOWS the AR is far superior, thats why 90% of the people prefer an AR over the ASCR, common choice is the final number when it comes to what weapon is better.
You are just saying it because you are scared and afraid that they will nerf the AR, dont worry they wont.I think the AR is at a good place right now and it nothing compared to true firepower (my imperial Scrambler rifle)

The ASCR isn't supposed to be better than the AR, not by a long shot. The ASCR is the Amarrian emulation of the AR, it's not supposed to out-perform it much in the same way the Tactical Assault Rifle isn't supposed to outperform the Scrambler Rifle (but it does as far as range is concerned).-Being a laser weapon it SHOULD , have less recoil and more range.Considering the difference in CPU-PG the damage should (and is) be greater than the AR.

The Assault Rifle is the Gallente's main variant - this was explained by CCP.

Assault Rifle - Gallente AR
Burst rifle - Minmatar Combat Rifle
Breach Rifle - Caldari Rail Rifle
Tactical Assault Rifle - Amarrian Scrambler Rifle

They're just emulations of those race's mainstay. It's like Equate against Tylenol, it performs similarly but you're still going to get more bang for your buck if you go with the real thing.
The difference is way to big. The ASCR is by no means better than a AR,unless you consider CQ being your only way of engaging. PLUS as it is, you say : ''it performs similarly but you're still going to get more bang for your buck if you go with the real thing.'' but besides the fact i can charge a shot,i feel the Duvolle tac is still superior to my imperial scrambler rifle,BY A LONG SHOT....

Again , im against nerfs, but dont try to take down an already underused weapon down with your precious AR...

I'm curious to the proportion of players that actually use both. Every one that I know agrees that recoil and dispersion is a non-factor.

Edit: And, again - if you nerf the AR in any way you have to nerf the ASR so that it fits within it's combat philosophy. Just saying. You can't have the cake and eat it to.

I have proficiency into both weapons. The AR is better down the sights than the AScR, but the AScR is better whilst hipfiring than the AR is.

If anything the AR should lose range but get more damage to be more Gallentean and the AScR shouldn't kick at all, because it's, you know... A laser, in return the AScR should get a stupidly tight hipfire (I'm thinking laser rifle hipfire) to make it hard to use in close quarters (where lasers are traditionally lacking), and lowered damage per second in close quarters. Their roles are backwards right now, the laser is supposed to destroy at medium-long range and the AR is supposed to be the best rifle at close range.

Has kick but no muzzle climb, so it kinda works out.

I hear a lot of talk about recoil and dispersion but inevitably I always answer it the same way:

Recoil does not make the Assault Rifle overpowered. Any weapon is going to be accurate as the dickens when aiming down the sights and when you implement "dispersion" in a hit scan based system, it's almost entirely cosmetic and ultimately arbitrary. You're not firing rounds, you're firing a vector that intersects with another line and inevitably stops. This is not Battlefield 3, there are no bullet physics.

Dispersion is entirely client based and you can readily see this just based on observation, and it applies with almost all first person shooters - save those that have extensive game design around bullet physics like Battlefield 3 and the Sniper franchise. A good example of this is the "headshot glitch" in which they are able to fire at you because the rounds come from their camera, which is located in their head and not the weapon.

Recoil, on the other hand, is slightly more prominent. It usually doesn't kick in until you're about halfway through the magazine but either way you should be firing in bursts anyway and even if the recoil is ten times that of any other weapon you can manage it just by firing in smaller bursts. Tapping the R1 button reduces the recoil so significantly that a thread regarding the phenomenon actually made it on the "feedback/discussions weekly report" that CCP does, and it was functioning as intended. Because it is. All games do this.

The reason this is important information is because inevitably it falls back on the fact that it's a vector and there's no way to simulate dispersion without the dreaded "random bullet spread" effect. When you fire at a wall, you see the rounds impact in multiple areas - whereas another player will see the rounds land in a single location.

Now, I could go on and talk about all the game mechanics for hours but inevitably what's important is the disparity between the Assault Rifle and the Scrambler Rifle/Assault Scrambler Rifle. The design philosophy is that the Assault Rifle is meant for high damage, low range engagements - a stark contrast to, say, the Rail Rifle which is the exact opposite. The Scrambler Rifle is intended to come in at a close second in terms of range engagement.

If you compare the Assault Rifle and Scrambler Rifle variants, you'll notice that this is -mostly- true as the Assault Scrambler Rifle does have a higher effective range while retaining a similar optimal range, as indicated here:

http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.png

The issue, however, is that both have roughly the same DPS. One has higher damage with lower fire rate, the other has lower damage with higher fire rate. If the Assault Rifle is intended to be a high damage weapon with low range, inevitably it falls back on how it compares to the Assault Scrambler Rifle's range. If both have the same DPS (which, they do) than the range is a buff against the Assault Rifle.

I've honestly been curious as to why the Assault Scrambler Rifle hasn't been used more frequently as it's a fierce weapon to compete against on the field even with Assault Rifle Proficiency 4, but I digress.

The Assault Rifle does not need a Recoil/Dispersion nerf. Range doesn't mean anything if you're not accurate enough to engage at those ranges and taking away from this will increase the disparity in a negative way. On the other hand, you can reduce the optimal range slighty (at the most by 10 meters) so that the range scales accordingly, but even then this is too much of a difference as the Assault Scrambler Rifle isn't intended to have the highest range. With which, you have to be careful how you proceed.

Reason being? If you reduce the range on the Assault Rifle, all of a sudden the Assault Scrambler Rifle is a much better alternative due to it's similar DPS output, negligible overheat mechanic and better performance at range. If you reduce the range on the Assault Rifle, you have to reduce the damage on the Assault Scrambler Rifle, otherwise there isn't enough diversity in the play style to matter - one is obviously better than the other.

Almost all of the issues presented, like Recoil/Dispersion, is entirely circumstantial. Sure, it does really good headshot damage but considering that the Scrambler Pistol does 400% of it's normal damage on a headshot, you can't use it as a legitimate argument because there are weapons that out perform the Assault Rifle for that reason.

It doesn't have predictable muzzle climb, which the AR does have, making it easier to control. The AScR kicks in all directions with no preference for direction, and is therefore harder to control while ADS. A steady upward muzzle climb is actually very preferable in an automatic weapon, as it helps to land headshots.

If anything the AR should lose range but get more damage to be more Gallentean and the AScR shouldn't kick at all, because it's, you know... A laser, in return the AScR should get a stupidly tight hipfire (I'm thinking laser rifle hipfire) to make it hard to use in close quarters (where lasers are traditionally lacking), and lowered damage per second in close quartersp Their roles are backwards right now, the laser is supposed to destroy at medium-long range and the AR is supposed to be the best rifle at close range.

Has kick but no muzzle climb, so it kinda works out.

None. At all. There is none. You can fire for days and it will stay on target no matter what.

And the AScR that nedds a faster overheat, and less overheat reduction from amarian suit!

This is not true. The shots start going wild, and while the gun does not start going up the shots get further and further from center.

Granted this is easily countered by firing in bursts, but if you never let go of the trigger you'll stop hitting your target.




I agree with the first part of the sentence, but the second part makes me a little angry (blame the whiskey...). The Amarr suits would be too weak without having their awesome bonuses. Every other suit has great slot layouts and is faster. The amarr need to have some kickass racial specs to stay competitive.