DUST Search - If you nerf the AR, you have to nerf the ASR

Draco Cerberus wrote:

Talos Alomar wrote:

This might be a problem we're approaching in the wrong fashion. Direct nerfs/buffs to any weapon might just make the problem worse.

Every weapon needs a militia variant. This is a bigger problem than most people realize, as who the hell is going to dump 50k sp just to try out a new weapon when they're first starting? they're going to use weapons they can try for free, and due to inertia they'll likely stick with that weapon for quite some time.

It might also be a good idea to raise the AR's fitting costs. It might not seem like much but it would make Ar users have to use lower level mods making them weaker as a whole instead of the juggernauts they are. It seems odd to me that the weapon with the highest DPS also has some of the lowest fitting costs.

better all around performance should mean higher all around fitting costs.

The fitting cost for a Duvolle is already absurdly high making it tough to fit on any proto suit other than the Assault variants. This is already in place. The problem is still a damage type issue. We have no built in resistance to any type of weapons and the ones that do more to a certain type of tank (shield or armor) cannot be tanked for other than with more buffer. Please check out this thread which provides an excellent way to protect yourself on the battlefield.

Resistance Thread


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Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1486	Posted - 2013.09.13 03:36:00 - [1] - Quote This might be a problem we're approaching in the wrong fashion. Direct nerfs/buffs to any weapon might just make the problem worse. Every weapon needs a militia variant. This is a bigger problem than most people realize, as who the hell is going to dump 50k sp just to try out a new weapon when they're first starting? they're going to use weapons they can try for free, and due to inertia they'll likely stick with that weapon for quite some time. It might also be a good idea to raise the AR's fitting costs. It might not seem like much but it would make Ar users have to use lower level mods making them weaker as a whole instead of the juggernauts they are. It seems odd to me that the weapon with the highest DPS also has some of the lowest fitting costs. better all around performance should mean higher all around fitting costs.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1486	Posted - 2013.09.13 03:49:00 - [2] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Beck Weathers wrote: ASR actualy has some major kick to it which throws off its AIm, which the AR is in dire need of. So no I'm curious to the proportion of players that actually use both. Every one that I know agrees that recoil and dispersion is a non-factor. Edit: And, again - if you nerf the AR in any way you have to nerf the ASR so that it fits within it's combat philosophy. Just saying. You can't have the cake and eat it to. I have 0 points into ARs, so my main experience is using the 'Exile' on various shitfits, but the AR has noticeably better recoil. Which is rather odd considering that the ASCR shoots light... The higher base damage does make up for it slightly, but the AR's ability to put all of it's dps right on target gives it a bit of an edge.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1489	Posted - 2013.09.13 13:46:00 - [3] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Harpyja wrote: Your thread fails to justify why the Tac AR has a longer optimal than the ScR. It is supposed to emulate the ScR, not outperform it. So yes, you can nerf ARs without needing to nerf the ScRs. You're only nerfing the Tac AR out of all of them though. I always hate going up against Tac AR users because they can hurt me more than I can hurt them, simply because they have a longer optimal than I do. Correction - the Tactical Assault Rifle was meant to emulate the Rail Rifle. Breach = Rail Rifle
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1489	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:20:00 - [4] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Talos Alomar wrote: This might be a problem we're approaching in the wrong fashion. Direct nerfs/buffs to any weapon might just make the problem worse. Every weapon needs a militia variant. This is a bigger problem than most people realize, as who the hell is going to dump 50k sp just to try out a new weapon when they're first starting? they're going to use weapons they can try for free, and due to inertia they'll likely stick with that weapon for quite some time. It might also be a good idea to raise the AR's fitting costs. It might not seem like much but it would make Ar users have to use lower level mods making them weaker as a whole instead of the juggernauts they are. It seems odd to me that the weapon with the highest DPS also has some of the lowest fitting costs. better all around performance should mean higher all around fitting costs. The fitting cost for a Duvolle is already absurdly high making it tough to fit on any proto suit other than the Assault variants. This is already in place. The problem is still a damage type issue. We have no built in resistance to any type of weapons and the ones that do more to a certain type of tank (shield or armor) cannot be tanked for other than with more buffer. Please check out this thread which provides an excellent way to protect yourself on the battlefield. Resistance Thread Compare the Duvolle to any other weapon at proto. It has lower costs than anything but the LR. This means the gun with the highest DPS in the game has the best fitting costs. As far as it being hard to fit a duvolle, have you ever tried fitting a CRW-9 scrambler onto anything? it takes 16 pg. this is at adv level, so that means the advanced SCR takes 3 more pg than the duvolle. It also takes more CPU than the GEK as well. The AR has absurdly low fitting costs for their performance which let them have a better tank or more damage mods.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1489	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:24:00 - [5] - Quote Jathniel wrote: It would have to considering the Rail RIfle is going to be considered a long range weapon. Not sure how Breach got associated with it. I'm guessing they're using the breach rifle to balance a higher damage per shot but lower rate of fire weapon for CQC, and the rail rifle will function in a similar manner but with much better range.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1491	Posted - 2013.09.14 18:16:00 - [6] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: The problem is just what you say. If we change ranges then other stats will have to change. I say start slow and use little changes. This game needs diversity and the AR doesn't allow for it. The ranges need to be looked at and adjusted or we will never see anything but ARs. The lack of diversity has less to do with the AR being unbalanced as it has to do with starter fits all having ARs and not every weapon has a militia variant. We need all of the racial rifles in the game, too. We'll see a bunch more variety when all of the "ARs" are in the game.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1492	Posted - 2013.09.14 19:37:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I'm still surprised that more people don't use the Assault Scrambler Rifle. I have no skills in it what so ever and I can't over-heat the damned thing, so it's not like it's this huge drawback. Hell, the only drawback it has when compared to the AR is resource costs and that can be easily dispatched just by using an Amarr suit because they have higher resources than the others. The reason that so few people use the ASCR is that it just isn't all that good. The SCR in my opinion outperforms the ASCR. It's a good gun, it just can't land a 300+ damage headshot before the poor chap know's he's in my sights, and the vanilla SCR can fire more powerful shots just as fast for CQC. but then again I've got more than 2.5 million SP dedicated towards heat management so I can take the higher heat of the SCR. The relationship between the SCR and ASCR can be compared to the Tac AR and the vanilla AR pre TacAR nerf. There is nothing the ASCR can do the SCR can't do better.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1495	Posted - 2013.09.15 03:22:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: None. At all. There is none. You can fire for days and it will stay on target no matter what. This is not true. The shots start going wild, and while the gun does not start going up the shots get further and further from center. Granted this is easily countered by firing in bursts, but if you never let go of the trigger you'll stop hitting your target. Monkey MAC wrote: And the AScR that nedds a faster overheat, and less overheat reduction from amarian suit! I agree with the first part of the sentence, but the second part makes me a little angry (blame the whiskey...). The Amarr suits would be too weak without having their awesome bonuses. Every other suit has great slot layouts and is faster. The amarr need to have some kickass racial specs to stay competitive.