ASR actualy has some major kick to it which throws off its AIm, which the AR is in dire need of. So no

I can use both proto ARs and proto ScRs, and I can tell you without a doubt that the AR is the superior weapon.

The AScR is a joke compared to the AR, as the kick and muzzle flash severely impacts accuracy, and with having trained only 1 level in AR sharpshooter skill (i.e. not much difference from stock) that the grouping on the AR is incredibly tighter. This difference only gets magnified the farther you go, and as such the AScR is near unusable past 50 m without constant trigger feathering. The AR remains accurate out to 80m no problem.

Sure, DPS of both weapons would be a good bit too much given their ranges, that is assuming that they both performed the same at range. This is of course a false assumption. If you want to be deadly with the AScR you need to be closer.

I use both Aeon.

Both AR and SCR and maxed out for me.

The Assault Scrambler when used in ADS, has instant dispersion. You can see it through the projectile and bullet impact animation (if that even relates to the actual vectors).

I'm not as accurate with the Assault Scrambler at long range, as I am with the AR; before 1.4 part of the reason for this was the muzzle flash. Using the ASCR in ADS had a blinding muzzle flash, which incrementally damaged your ability to track targets at range. It was very subtle but it was there.

But now during 1.4, the muzzle flash was toned down slightly, and I'm still having trouble tracking guys at range with the ASCR, simply because of its dispersion. I don't mind its dispersion, it's perfectly reasonable. I often believe the AR should have a similar dispersion.
But, since we got a cooldown buff I've been using the SCR exclusively. SCR > ASCR, since it can pull off a few more shots now before OH.

If the anything needs to happen, I would swap the recoil and dispersion behaviors of both guns. Give the ASCR the rock steady aim in ADS, and have it gradually degrade, and give the AR the 100% consistent and steady moderate recoil.

Another remedy would be to give the scrambler rifles a Sharpshooter skill.

Your are absolutlely right the AR needs its range tone done and the Ror or Damage buffed (slightly), well yu could also nerf the dps troughout the other Assault rifle variants ^^.

The GAR should have the highest DPS and the lowest Range.

The AsCR is in fact quite comparable o the AR but there are some aspects that make the AR more desirable.

1. The AR gets a huge accuracy boost through skills 25% reduction in recoil and another 25% reduction to dispersion is quite a lot.

2. The AR has a militia and a std variant whereas the AsCR is an advanced weapon that unlocks on lvl 4.

3. The AR has std blueprints that makes the weapon quite attractive

4. Everybody has an AR milita blueprint through starter fits so everybody has acces to the AR without SP investment

Your thread fails to justify why the Tac AR has a longer optimal than the ScR. It is supposed to emulate the ScR, not outperform it. So yes, you can nerf ARs without needing to nerf the ScRs. You're only nerfing the Tac AR out of all of them though. I always hate going up against Tac AR users because they can hurt me more than I can hurt them, simply because they have a longer optimal than I do.

It would have to considering the Rail RIfle is going to be considered a long range weapon.
Not sure how Breach got associated with it.

I don't think anything needs to happen to the AR much.
Just give it instant dispersion when it starts shooting, instead of having it fire perfect lines for the first 15 rounds, and it'll be fine. That will limit it's accuracy at long range, which is what everyone is pissed off about.

You don't need to reduce the ARs damage, RoF, or optimal or effective ranges. Just keep the dispersion the same, but have it start the moment you start firing. Just like the ASCR.

Much better range.

We've already seen this before...

http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/

It bugs me that you got a Pistol AND an SMG listed under "long range".

We'll see what happens assuming they come 1.5. I anticipate the AR is going to be least of people's problems.

Recoil =/= dispersion.

AR users must be scared if there's topics to bring down other rifles when they get nerfed. I'm licking my lips thinking about the delicious tears when the AR goes to being the jack of all trades and master of none, but the sweat is pretty sweet too. The nerf hammer cometh, and it cometh hard.

Say again?

Also, the AR is a placeholder of the 4 racial rifles. Once the combat and rail rifle come out, the AR is going to need to be re-balanced with it's own weaknesses anyway. It's just a matter of time.

I have used both the AR/Tac and the ASCR/SCR.

The SCR/ASCR is a far superior weapon to the AR. Most people dont seem to realize that the AR once you have fully upgraded does have significantly reduced recoil/dispersion but the ASCR pretty much starts as where the AR finishes with its 1.5 mill SP points into sharpshooter. The sight is better on the ASCR than the AR. Optimal range is similar. ROF is slightly lower for the ASCR but it does 39.6 dmg per shot, DPS is 465.89 with no prof or dmg mods, AR is 467.50....this difference is hardly significant........accuracy for the ASCR is higher than the AR, reload time for the ASCR is higher than for the AR, mag size for the ASCR is 15 rounds more than for the AR.

Without even taking into account the different in shield vs armor the ASCR outshines the AR. If you start taking into account the dmg vs shields and armor then you will see the ASCR gets a larger increase to dmg vs shields than its gets a decrease on dmg vs armor (its does 2 less dmg per shot on armor than the AR but it does ~6 dmg more per shot against shields and proficiency only increases the difference in the dmg to shields it makes no change to the difference in dmg to armor). I have fired an entire mag of the ASCR it does not rise at all even when you empty the mag there is no recoil/rise for this weapon...the AR takes about 25-30 shots but it does start to climb significantly at this point so you either have to push your aim down or you have to stop for half a moment to readjust.

Basically ASCR is far more effective than the AR......why ppl use the AR......its because they choose to definitely not because it beats out the ASCR.

We were hated for our bravado on the forums....and the fact that we could back that up in game. Something people tend not to like. However a lot of imperfects (in regards to game play or game balance) have played FPS games competitively. As a result we know alot about weapon balancing and how it should be done effectively. Ppl just love to continue to hate us for our trolling in other areas and ignore us when we talk about correct weapon balance.

In that case welcome to the world of forum PvP.....in our minds the forums PvP was always more competitive and fun than the actual game was....especially as CCP continued to make stupid decisions. Sota was the perfect example of this. He joined our ranks so that we could increase our forum trolling and PvP because back when imperfects were actually around (we are in retirement now) our PvP could not be matched.

Yes is has a bit but then they also took steps backwards....like the strong AA.

That being said its truly going to end up being too little too late. PS4 is coming out....and they will have at least 1 FTP FPS game when PS4 launches and they will be getting 2 more FTP FPS games. And when those games hit they will probably already be where dust is headed (but Dust will likely take another year or more to get to that point).

The lack of diversity has less to do with the AR being unbalanced as it has to do with starter fits all having ARs and not every weapon has a militia variant.

We need all of the racial rifles in the game, too. We'll see a bunch more variety when all of the "ARs" are in the game.

I have both to officer and I completely disagree get rid of the ******* flash I'm trying to shoot not go blind...and with more people running armor lately that's a perfect counter 80% dmg to armor, what's the counter to ar? Oh yeah nothing cuz its range is far more than its supposed to be

I have very sensitive eyes and that **** pisses me off the people who know me know I've been waiting sinced closed beta for it and now it burns my eyes I hate the ar I've used it every build I've used md tanks forgeguns sr lr and now the scr and I can't hardly use it...and an AR is a blaster short range high damage @ aeon

Im againt the nerf on any weapon.
But as a response to Aeon, Nerf the ASCR then! ITs a piece of **** anyways.

Nobody likes it, because it costs more I$K and a LOT more SP to use than a regular AR.PLUS it has a horrible kick/recoil , horrible muzzle flash that gave my parrot epilepsy and Overheats.

Totally the same weapon....

Considering SP investment and I$K price, THe ASCR SHOULD BE VERY superior to the ARs, and as it is, a MLT Scrambler pistol scares me more...

Just saying.

First off: 7000ISK every 10 deaths its 70000K and im poor,please send 1-5 million over my way in good faith as you are obviously rich.

You are not following.You are putting the ASCR and the AR at the same level.They are not.

As it is they might have to have their performances reversed,so they match the requirements.

AH and i forgot the MASSIVE amount of CPU and PG the ASCR requires, which AR do not since they are cheap as f***. :3

By all means, DO NOT NERF THE AR, just BUFF THE ASCR to be better than the AR,as it should be.........

Again , im against nerfs, but dont try to take down an already underused weapon down with your precious AR...

I have proficiency into both weapons. The AR is better down the sights than the AScR, but the AScR is better whilst hipfiring than the AR is.

If anything the AR should lose range but get more damage to be more Gallentean and the AScR shouldn't kick at all, because it's, you know... A laser, in return the AScR should get a stupidly tight hipfire (I'm thinking laser rifle hipfire) to make it hard to use in close quarters (where lasers are traditionally lacking), and lowered damage per second in close quarters. Their roles are backwards right now, the laser is supposed to destroy at medium-long range and the AR is supposed to be the best rifle at close range.

It doesn't have predictable muzzle climb, which the AR does have, making it easier to control. The AScR kicks in all directions with no preference for direction, and is therefore harder to control while ADS. A steady upward muzzle climb is actually very preferable in an automatic weapon, as it helps to land headshots.

Has kick but no muzzle climb, so it kinda works out.

This is not true. The shots start going wild, and while the gun does not start going up the shots get further and further from center.

Granted this is easily countered by firing in bursts, but if you never let go of the trigger you'll stop hitting your target.




I agree with the first part of the sentence, but the second part makes me a little angry (blame the whiskey...). The Amarr suits would be too weak without having their awesome bonuses. Every other suit has great slot layouts and is faster. The amarr need to have some kickass racial specs to stay competitive.