Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.

Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.

actually they should be quite nice unless your doing wrong
ive noticed the outside objectives and evenon the 5 point open
that those objectives are far apart and when teams transition from here to there
those are quite long strides for infantry
all you have to do is find a good crossing spot and wait for them

Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.

I hate the new maps. Absolutely loathe them. As both a sniper and a shotgunner. They're ******* woeful for anyone not using an AR or ScR.

EDIT: I've resorted to using the basic laser rifle whenever I'm unfortunate enough to get the production facility. Even then, it is of very limited use due to the medium range orientation of literally everything bar a couple of places on the map

Personally, I've had no problem with the new maps. Just stay a bit behind your team and provide cover fire. If someone decides to try and flank, which are usually just scouts, take them out with your sidearm. The only problem I see is if you are one of those guys who specced into a suit without a side arm, which means you're either going to have to pick up another weapon or start the long grind in order to spec into another suit.

Plus, overall I think coming down from your perch to mingle with the common folk every now and then allows you to really experience the brutish nature that is within us all. For one day, when you have returned to your perch, you will be able to self-reflect on these experiences and extract the principles held within them as you are having your daily ginseng tea with other like-minded individuals.

Always look for the silver lining.

It is really good to know snipe is not too powerful in the new maps. Here I have a suggest for sniping fan. In fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of map. You should have better view and more chances to hit someone.:) Not mention this map is quit benefit for dropship.

Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.

Not every mission is going to be a snipers paradise, infact most are not going to be good for snipers. I understand that some people just want to snipe and thats fine but play your role more as a recon than a sniper. Give info to your squad and team, carry a scanner instead of hives. That scope can be a great tool for gathering information, one of the best methods in my opinion, you can get eyes on enemies way before anyone else and get a decent idea on squad comp.

Not every mission is going to be a snipers paradise, infact most are not going to be good for snipers. I understand that some people just want to snipe and thats fine but play your role more as a recon than a sniper. Give info to your squad and team, carry a scanner instead of hives.

I hate the new maps. Absolutely loathe them. As both a sniper and a shotgunner. They're ******* woeful for anyone not using an AR or ScR.

EDIT: I've resorted to using the basic laser rifle whenever I'm unfortunate enough to get the production facility. Even then, it is of very limited use due to the medium range orientation of literally everything bar a couple of places on the map

It is really good to know snipe is not too powerful in the new maps. Here I have a suggest for sniping fan. In fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of map. You should have better view and more chances to hit someone.:) Not mention this map is quit benefit for dropship.

It is really good to know snipe is not too powerful in the new maps. Here I have a suggest for sniping fan. In fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of map. You should have better view and more chances to hit someone.:) Not mention this map is quit benefit for dropship.

The new maps actually look really good for snipers.
Lots of good hiding spots. High and low.

I think your problem might be that you can't watch over the entire map and now have to focus your attention on just 1 objective. Which isn't a bad thing.
Just make sure it's the objective closest to their MCC for a steady supply of kills.
Stay just close enough to get the hacks when the reds inevitably steal the objective you've been charged with protecting.

Plenty of cover to move undetected, plenty of mini hills to climb up top, plenty of buildings to climb up top.
Bridge map is the only unfriendly sniper map since even if you're on the outskirts, its hard to get a clear shot on people on the bridge.

Although like it has always been, people tend to gravitate towards buildings and light covers, not much you can do other than to ask your team to draw them out.

That is a horrible place to be, as a sniper. Just another CCP Dev that doesn't even know how to play their own game.
.

You have to admit the new maps are gorgeous though and they actually allow stealthy shotgun scouts to be useful, whereas say for example manus peak and its bowl surrounded by mountains gives snipers a nice advantage and CQC specialists allot of open ground to cover.

Hell manus peak is so sniper friendly a decent sniper in a fastish suit can lock down A right off the bat giving his team a huge advantage, its that bad on that map now its almost a requirement to park a vehicle at A blocking the sniper's line of sight before even attempting to hack it. So yes the new maps may be difficult on snipers but other maps give them an easy ride.

So, as someone who is not part of the level design team and definitely not a level designer: is that really a bad thing? Some maps are bad for HAV's, some specific maps and outposts no good for heavys.

Personally while I have been specializing into one specific role (medium gallente logi) I have still dumped some points into making sure I can use other suits and weapons for when it's needed and when I want a change.

So, as someone who is not part of the level design team and definitely not a level designer: is that really a bad thing? Some maps are bad for HAV's, some specific maps and outposts no good for heavys.

Personally while I have been specializing into one specific role (medium gallente logi) I have still dumped some points into making sure I can use other suits and weapons for when it's needed and when I want a change.

Have you not played EVE? The same follows, to be a desirable member of the team, you need to be completely specialized.
Nobody is shouting out, "looking for pilots that can fly every ship but can't fit T-II modules!" they similarly aren't shouting, "I need someone with every weapon and suit in Standard and Advanced gear!" in the recruit section.

In a Skirmish map, there is always a location that is beneficial to have a tank, HMG, or Forge Gun. They are almost necessary, in the same vain that these new makes make the Sniper role negligible.

It isn't making the Sniper bad for the map, it is making that person dedicated to that role worth less to the team. This is the removal of a role, not hindering it slightly like maps and installations can render HAVs and Sentinels

spoken like someone who's never sniped in DUST

It is really good to know snipe is not too powerful in the new maps. Here I have a suggest for sniping fan. In fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of map. You should have better view and more chances to hit someone.:) Not mention this map is quit benefit for dropship.

to the creator of this post... have you ever tried medium range sniping??? or does sitting in the redline work out much better for you, yeah the new maps are more CQC orientated but a sniper that is worth anything can still find positions and be effective... i see about 1/10 snipers who actually have the skill to go mid-range most just hide and drop unsuspecting infantry from crazy distance, new maps are awesome anyone not seeing this needs to HTFU

It's a welcome change from previously dull and repetitive "OMG... it's another basin surrounded by a bowl of mountains" setup...

... some maps suck balls for heavies and CQC types, some maps suck for long-range combat. Also... just view it as a challenge and see how you can be even better and innovative on harder maps instead of crying that you can't lolredline loltower lolsideofamountain snipe.

But yeah, I know it sucks for dedicated snipers.

So, as someone who is not part of the level design team and definitely not a level designer: is that really a bad thing? Some maps are bad for HAV's, some specific maps and outposts no good for heavys.

Personally while I have been specializing into one specific role (medium gallente logi) I have still dumped some points into making sure I can use other suits and weapons for when it's needed and when I want a change.

You must be one of those types of people who speaks through exclamatory means to try and emphasize that you are right... rather than actually using logic.

I don't even want to know who/how you got all of those likes...

Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.

I think I've posted this before but just in case I haven't:

Anyone who considers themself a sniper first and footsoldier second is a fool.
HOWEVER, I believe it's been glaringly apparent that snipers are being nerfed in every way possible without actually reducing sniping spec stats. This may be a tertiary effect of the various updates and upgrades we've made in the game over-all but the bottom line is that it's less and less desirable to be a sniper because of the blatent, if not purposeful, disregard of sniper play style and mechanics.
I understand sniper hate but the fact is, those of you who harbor such feelings, you need to learn to deal with it. Snipers were literally invented to **** people off and break morale. You might as well cry about tanks having armor; you're NOT supposed to like it. You ARE supposed to HATE it and you ARE supposed to learn to deal with it.
There are obvious flaws in map design which can make snipers more of a pain (such as MCC sniping or "head-glitching") and those can be or have been dealt with. But putting the screws to a whole class because you don't like to get one-hit without warning is not sufficient reasoning and it's somewhat insulting.

I'm not a developer so I don't know the difficulties in balancing classes. But I believe I can still make some suggestions:
Make the sniper class much more costly to spec in to. I'd even be ok if it was EXTREMELY expensive to spec into, it's worth it to me. I didn't get this game so I could thoughtlessly pull a trigger. I would actually prefer to have to have sniping be a smaller subset of players in the game because it should be a real specialty. One way to do this might be to make sniping a luxury. It would discourage the casual sniper from specing into the skill tree too deep. When I say extremely expensive I mean like a 5-fold increase in SP per skill. This may upset some peoples sensabilities. But, besides the fact that you cry because you cant be a fully spec'ed sniper AND fully spec'ed whatever else, what argument could you have against making people who want to snipe woefully miserable because now they have to really choose to be a sniper, which takes time and dedication, or spend their points on being another drone.
The other possible way to deal with this would be to increase map size further and create multiple terrains. Enourmous maps could have multiple hills and valleys and plains and objectives that are far away from redlines. This would give us the opportunity to have an indoor installation with a lot of QCQ to maintain control and isolated objectives which practically necessitate a sniper to help maintain control. There are plenty of other advantages to larger maps and I sure some of you have good counterpoints (I can't think of any downsides honestly) but then I think we would need to increase draw distance so ACTUAL LONG RANGE sniping would be possible (400m is paltry considering sniping TODAY easily crosses 1000m - with records over 2000m). Then we could get into some bullet-lag and drop mechanics (siiiiiick)

That is a horrible place to be, as a sniper. Just another CCP Dev that doesn't even know how to play their own game.
Its centralized location, relatively high position to the map itself, and low clearance make it one of the best placed for Drop Up-Link deployment. This results in many people focusing their attention there, while being in range of nearly every weapon, as people try to make their way there themselves for it's team-oriented benefits. Laser Rifles and Scrambler Rifles are better suited for that position than the Sniper Rifle.

Fracture Road (thanks for the name) lacks any common path. The map itself is so large and spread apart that it necessitates the use of vehicles. The map constantly has the vehicle quota reached. The hit-detection while in LAVs is still pitiful. So much of their body is exposed, yet so little can actually take damage. While Dropships protect their cargo by flying with the nose or aft facing a sniper.

I'm no stranger to Combat Sniping (the act of sniping from within AR range), that was my bread and butter of Ambush in Beta. Ashland was very good for this. Skirmish point "A" and the catwalk for the pipelines. There were many good spots on that map, all within the range of an HMG (with Sharp-Shooter). Line Harvest as well. From the table-top itself to many positions on the ground around it.

These new maps have no such area where people need to travel, except the vast distances between each multi-layered installation. And there are a great deal of different paths you can take, typically staying in cover. Until a single head-shot from a Tactical Sniper Rifle can kill a suit of the same tier, the Sniper Rifle will never be an area-denial weapon again. The new design philosophy of "no long range access" to null cannons means it can't be a point defense either.

The most tactically advantageous point on each of the new maps would be on top of those turbines... only they cause damage to anyone atop of them.

Much like the HMG needs a close quarters bottleneck to maximize its defensive capabilities, the sniper rifle needs a bottleneck on open terrain.

I think I've posted this before but just in case I haven't:

Anyone who considers themself a sniper first and footsoldier second is a fool.
HOWEVER, I believe it's been glaringly apparent that snipers are being nerfed in every way possible without actually reducing sniping spec stats. This may be a tertiary effect of the various updates and upgrades we've made in the game over-all but the bottom line is that it's less and less desirable to be a sniper because of the blatent, if not purposeful, disregard of sniper play style and mechanics.
I understand sniper hate but the fact is, those of you who harbor such feelings, you need to learn to deal with it. Snipers were literally invented to **** people off and break morale. You might as well cry about tanks having armor; you're NOT supposed to like it. You ARE supposed to HATE it and you ARE supposed to learn to deal with it.
There are obvious flaws in map design which can make snipers more of a pain (such as MCC sniping or "head-glitching") and those can be or have been dealt with. But putting the screws to a whole class because you don't like to get one-hit without warning is not sufficient reasoning and it's somewhat insulting.

I'm not a developer so I don't know the difficulties in balancing classes. But I believe I can still make some suggestions:
Make the sniper class much more costly to spec in to. I'd even be ok if it was EXTREMELY expensive to spec into, it's worth it to me. I didn't get this game so I could thoughtlessly pull a trigger. I would actually prefer to have to have sniping be a smaller subset of players in the game because it should be a real specialty. One way to do this might be to make sniping a luxury. It would discourage the casual sniper from specing into the skill tree too deep. When I say extremely expensive I mean like a 5-fold increase in SP per skill. This may upset some peoples sensabilities. But, besides the fact that you cry because you cant be a fully spec'ed sniper AND fully spec'ed whatever else, what argument could you have against making people who want to snipe woefully miserable because now they have to really choose to be a sniper, which takes time and dedication, or spend their points on being another drone.
The other possible way to deal with this would be to increase map size further and create multiple terrains. Enourmous maps could have multiple hills and valleys and plains and objectives that are far away from redlines. This would give us the opportunity to have an indoor installation with a lot of QCQ to maintain control and isolated objectives which practically necessitate a sniper to help maintain control. There are plenty of other advantages to larger maps and I sure some of you have good counterpoints (I can't think of any downsides honestly) but then I think we would need to increase draw distance so ACTUAL LONG RANGE sniping would be possible (400m is paltry considering sniping TODAY easily crosses 1000m - with records over 2000m). Then we could get into some bullet-lag and drop mechanics (siiiiiick)

Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.

A proto sniper and I agree with this, if you can't find a place to snipe you just aren't doing it right, learn to assault-snipe, that means getting your ass down from the hills and finding the notches to fire off a couple shots and move on

Yes. You are right about the position I mentioned above. But you take advantage of the height and view, you need to take the risk that you expose and be concentratedlly fired. I saw enough that people stay in a safe house and slaughter other people on the open ground with a sniper rifle. That is something I really don't want to happen again. Actually in dust you don't need to calculate distance and ballistics, which make sniper rifle easier to handle than other game. That 's really dangerous for anyone shows up on uncovered area. That's why you can see there are more covers in the map.

On the other hand, I don't think sniper is an easy role to play with. Sitting at safe hideout and firing out all your bullets will not help you practice your shooting skills. From my perspective, sniper should always change his location, keep running from one safe spot to the another without exposure. Once he fires, it needs to count and he needs to remain undetected. There is good example in our internal playtest - we have a person sitting on the top of killboard even if all combat happens in the research facility. He is really good at scout, and constantly hiding and shooting from different places.