DUST Search - New maps bad for Snipers.

CCP Stiffneck wrote:

Cass Caul wrote:

CCP Stiffneck wrote:

It is really good to know that sniping is not too powerful in the new maps. So I have a suggestion for sniping fans. On the fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of the map. You should have better view and more chances to spot someone. :) Not to mention that this map is quite beneficial for dropships!

That is a horrible place to be, as a sniper. Just another CCP Dev that doesn't even know how to play their own game.
Its centralized location, relatively high position to the map itself, and low clearance make it one of the best placed for Drop Up-Link deployment. This results in many people focusing their attention there, while being in range of nearly every weapon, as people try to make their way there themselves for it's team-oriented benefits. Laser Rifles and Scrambler Rifles are better suited for that position than the Sniper Rifle.

Fracture Road (thanks for the name) lacks any common path. The map itself is so large and spread apart that it necessitates the use of vehicles. The map constantly has the vehicle quota reached. The hit-detection while in LAVs is still pitiful. So much of their body is exposed, yet so little can actually take damage. While Dropships protect their cargo by flying with the nose or aft facing a sniper.

I'm no stranger to Combat Sniping (the act of sniping from within AR range), that was my bread and butter of Ambush in Beta. Ashland was very good for this. Skirmish point "A" and the catwalk for the pipelines. There were many good spots on that map, all within the range of an HMG (with Sharp-Shooter). Line Harvest as well. From the table-top itself to many positions on the ground around it.

These new maps have no such area where people need to travel, except the vast distances between each multi-layered installation. And there are a great deal of different paths you can take, typically staying in cover. Until a single head-shot from a Tactical Sniper Rifle can kill a suit of the same tier, the Sniper Rifle will never be an area-denial weapon again. The new design philosophy of "no long range access" to null cannons means it can't be a point defense either.

The most tactically advantageous point on each of the new maps would be on top of those turbines... only they cause damage to anyone atop of them.

Much like the HMG needs a close quarters bottleneck to maximize its defensive capabilities, the sniper rifle needs a bottleneck on open terrain.

Yes. You are right about the position I mentioned above. But you take advantage of the height and view, you need to take the risk that you expose and be concentratedlly fired. I saw enough that people stay in a safe house and slaughter other people on the open ground with a sniper rifle. That is something I really don't want to happen again. Actually in dust you don't need to calculate distance and ballistics, which make sniper rifle easier to handle than other game. That 's really dangerous for anyone shows up on uncovered area. That's why you can see there are more covers in the map.

On the other hand, I don't think sniper is an easy role to play with. Sitting at safe hideout and firing out all your bullets will not help you practice your shooting skills. From my perspective, sniper should always change his location, keep running from one safe spot to the another without exposure. Once he fires, it needs to count and he needs to remain undetected. There is good example in our internal playtest - we have a person sitting on the top of killboard even if all combat happens in the research facility. He is really good at scout, and constantly hiding and shooting from different places.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3426	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:18:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Stiffneck wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Stiffneck wrote: It is really good to know that sniping is not too powerful in the new maps. So I have a suggestion for sniping fans. On the fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of the map. You should have better view and more chances to spot someone. :) Not to mention that this map is quite beneficial for dropships! That is a horrible place to be, as a sniper. Just another CCP Dev that doesn't even know how to play their own game. Its centralized location, relatively high position to the map itself, and low clearance make it one of the best placed for Drop Up-Link deployment. This results in many people focusing their attention there, while being in range of nearly every weapon, as people try to make their way there themselves for it's team-oriented benefits. Laser Rifles and Scrambler Rifles are better suited for that position than the Sniper Rifle. Fracture Road (thanks for the name) lacks any common path. The map itself is so large and spread apart that it necessitates the use of vehicles. The map constantly has the vehicle quota reached. The hit-detection while in LAVs is still pitiful. So much of their body is exposed, yet so little can actually take damage. While Dropships protect their cargo by flying with the nose or aft facing a sniper. I'm no stranger to Combat Sniping (the act of sniping from within AR range), that was my bread and butter of Ambush in Beta. Ashland was very good for this. Skirmish point "A" and the catwalk for the pipelines. There were many good spots on that map, all within the range of an HMG (with Sharp-Shooter). Line Harvest as well. From the table-top itself to many positions on the ground around it. These new maps have no such area where people need to travel, except the vast distances between each multi-layered installation. And there are a great deal of different paths you can take, typically staying in cover. Until a single head-shot from a Tactical Sniper Rifle can kill a suit of the same tier, the Sniper Rifle will never be an area-denial weapon again. The new design philosophy of "no long range access" to null cannons means it can't be a point defense either. The most tactically advantageous point on each of the new maps would be on top of those turbines... only they cause damage to anyone atop of them. Much like the HMG needs a close quarters bottleneck to maximize its defensive capabilities, the sniper rifle needs a bottleneck on open terrain. Yes. You are right about the position I mentioned above. But you take advantage of the height and view, you need to take the risk that you expose and be concentratedlly fired. I saw enough that people stay in a safe house and slaughter other people on the open ground with a sniper rifle. That is something I really don't want to happen again. Actually in dust you don't need to calculate distance and ballistics, which make sniper rifle easier to handle than other game. That 's really dangerous for anyone shows up on uncovered area. That's why you can see there are more covers in the map. On the other hand, I don't think sniper is an easy role to play with. Sitting at safe hideout and firing out all your bullets will not help you practice your shooting skills. From my perspective, sniper should always change his location, keep running from one safe spot to the another without exposure. Once he fires, it needs to count and he needs to remain undetected. There is good example in our internal playtest - we have a person sitting on the top of killboard even if all combat happens in the research facility. He is really good at scout, and constantly hiding and shooting from different places. In other words, play smart and you'll still do well. It's good that certain maps favour certain roles, it means that every time you get a new map you have to adjust your tactics, it keep the gameplay fresh, and it forces you to do things with your class that you wouldn't normally do. As a vehicle player I love the new outpost, it presents challenges and while the close quarters combat it provides isn't the best for vehicles it has the happy side effect of providing lots of ways to break LoS with AV, ultimately you just have to HTFU and adapt to the map your on. Also CCP stiffneck, I get the impression from your post that English isn't your first language so I'm making the assumption that you're one of the shanghai devs, am I correct in that regard? If so its nice to see you guys start being more active on the forums.