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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
296
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Posted - 2013.09.12 04:43:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ananda Yhufir wrote:I think I've posted this before but just in case I haven't:
Anyone who considers themself a sniper first and footsoldier second is a fool. HOWEVER, I believe it's been glaringly apparent that snipers are being nerfed in every way possible without actually reducing sniping spec stats. This may be a tertiary effect of the various updates and upgrades we've made in the game over-all but the bottom line is that it's less and less desirable to be a sniper because of the blatent, if not purposeful, disregard of sniper play style and mechanics. I understand sniper hate but the fact is, those of you who harbor such feelings, you need to learn to deal with it. Snipers were literally invented to **** people off and break morale. You might as well cry about tanks having armor; you're NOT supposed to like it. You ARE supposed to HATE it and you ARE supposed to learn to deal with it. There are obvious flaws in map design which can make snipers more of a pain (such as MCC sniping or "head-glitching") and those can be or have been dealt with. But putting the screws to a whole class because you don't like to get one-hit without warning is not sufficient reasoning and it's somewhat insulting.
I'm not a developer so I don't know the difficulties in balancing classes. But I believe I can still make some suggestions: Make the sniper class much more costly to spec in to. I'd even be ok if it was EXTREMELY expensive to spec into, it's worth it to me. I didn't get this game so I could thoughtlessly pull a trigger. I would actually prefer to have to have sniping be a smaller subset of players in the game because it should be a real specialty. One way to do this might be to make sniping a luxury. It would discourage the casual sniper from specing into the skill tree too deep. When I say extremely expensive I mean like a 5-fold increase in SP per skill. This may upset some peoples sensabilities. But, besides the fact that you cry because you cant be a fully spec'ed sniper AND fully spec'ed whatever else, what argument could you have against making people who want to snipe woefully miserable because now they have to really choose to be a sniper, which takes time and dedication, or spend their points on being another drone. The other possible way to deal with this would be to increase map size further and create multiple terrains. Enourmous maps could have multiple hills and valleys and plains and objectives that are far away from redlines. This would give us the opportunity to have an indoor installation with a lot of QCQ to maintain control and isolated objectives which practically necessitate a sniper to help maintain control. There are plenty of other advantages to larger maps and I sure some of you have good counterpoints (I can't think of any downsides honestly) but then I think we would need to increase draw distance so ACTUAL LONG RANGE sniping would be possible (400m is paltry considering sniping TODAY easily crosses 1000m - with records over 2000m). Then we could get into some bullet-lag and drop mechanics (siiiiiick)
I... I think I'm in love. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
1941
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Posted - 2013.09.12 05:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Swift Arturia wrote:Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent.
glad.....good job CCP. Worst thing in fps are a team full of snipers. Especially, in this game where there are no kill cams or a way to know where the sniper shot is coming from. |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
477
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Posted - 2013.09.12 17:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
Flux Raeder wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Swift Arturia wrote:Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent. CRY. ME. A. RIVER.
Before 1.4 every map was a sniper fest. I just hope they keep making indoor maps +1 CCP. A proto sniper and I agree with this, if you can't find a place to snipe you just aren't doing it right, learn to assault-snipe, that means getting your ass down from the hills and finding the notches to fire off a couple shots and move on It's super awesome when I assault-snipe. it's risky as hell to do so, but the reward when someone gets killed/wounded by a sniper in med range is cool. sniping needs some work. |
Our Deepest Regret
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
189
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Posted - 2013.09.12 17:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
I run in tanks mostly, so I never really cared about snipers until I started doing ambushes to grind isk to pay for the tanks I keep losing in skirmish. Can't run tanks in Ambush if the point is to make money, so long story short, suffer you sniper fucks, SUFFER!
If my clones had individual personalities, none of them would do yard work or check the mail for fear of some faceless demon hiding in the hills with a charged rifle. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
734
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Posted - 2013.09.12 17:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Flux Raeder wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:[quote=Swift Arturia]Is it me, or do the new maps make sniping a little irrelevant? Most of the areas are corridors and inside of structures. I know some people quit mid game and just go snipe with militia gear but for those of us that spent some time building up their sniping I feel like the shift towards ground troops might make sniping non-existent. CRY. ME. A. RIVER.
Before 1.4 every map was a sniper fest. I just hope they keep making indoor maps +1 CCP.
I agree with King Checkmate here. Not only are there far too many snipers (sometimes we end up with 10 people on a side sniping) but they do little to further the win mechanics of the match. All they do is annoy people. Not kill, annoy.
I hate to tell this to all of you die-hard snipers out there but sniping isn't relevant at all in PC game modes. Few corps utilize sniping in PC for the simple fact that they aren't versatile enough. Since PC is what the best players in the game are currently doing then this is as a clear of an illustration as there can be that sniping in this game is irrelevant to the success of a team. This is even with most PC maps being extremely sniper friendly.
You are welcome to QQ all about how that is because people don't understand sniper tactics, or how squad leaders don't understand how to manage snipers. All of this may be true, but in that case no sniper in this game (even the great ones, as I have played with many of those) does a good job of adapting his role to his teams needs and thus making himself relevant. If you as a sniper, want to make yourself valuable to your team you need to find a way of making yourself a larger asset to your team. Covering a single point isn't going to do it either, every other class can cover multiple points, shifting focus between objectives as needed. Snipers need to be able to do the same for them to really matter as more than a petty annoyance. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3426
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Posted - 2013.09.12 18:18:00 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Stiffneck wrote:Cass Caul wrote:CCP Stiffneck wrote:It is really good to know that sniping is not too powerful in the new maps. So I have a suggestion for sniping fans. On the fracture road, let your pilot drop you on the long pipe in the middle of the map. You should have better view and more chances to spot someone. :) Not to mention that this map is quite beneficial for dropships! That is a horrible place to be, as a sniper. Just another CCP Dev that doesn't even know how to play their own game. Its centralized location, relatively high position to the map itself, and low clearance make it one of the best placed for Drop Up-Link deployment. This results in many people focusing their attention there, while being in range of nearly every weapon, as people try to make their way there themselves for it's team-oriented benefits. Laser Rifles and Scrambler Rifles are better suited for that position than the Sniper Rifle. Fracture Road (thanks for the name) lacks any common path. The map itself is so large and spread apart that it necessitates the use of vehicles. The map constantly has the vehicle quota reached. The hit-detection while in LAVs is still pitiful. So much of their body is exposed, yet so little can actually take damage. While Dropships protect their cargo by flying with the nose or aft facing a sniper. I'm no stranger to Combat Sniping (the act of sniping from within AR range), that was my bread and butter of Ambush in Beta. Ashland was very good for this. Skirmish point "A" and the catwalk for the pipelines. There were many good spots on that map, all within the range of an HMG (with Sharp-Shooter). Line Harvest as well. From the table-top itself to many positions on the ground around it. These new maps have no such area where people need to travel, except the vast distances between each multi-layered installation. And there are a great deal of different paths you can take, typically staying in cover. Until a single head-shot from a Tactical Sniper Rifle can kill a suit of the same tier, the Sniper Rifle will never be an area-denial weapon again. The new design philosophy of "no long range access" to null cannons means it can't be a point defense either. The most tactically advantageous point on each of the new maps would be on top of those turbines... only they cause damage to anyone atop of them. Much like the HMG needs a close quarters bottleneck to maximize its defensive capabilities, the sniper rifle needs a bottleneck on open terrain. Yes. You are right about the position I mentioned above. But you take advantage of the height and view, you need to take the risk that you expose and be concentratedlly fired. I saw enough that people stay in a safe house and slaughter other people on the open ground with a sniper rifle. That is something I really don't want to happen again. Actually in dust you don't need to calculate distance and ballistics, which make sniper rifle easier to handle than other game. That 's really dangerous for anyone shows up on uncovered area. That's why you can see there are more covers in the map. On the other hand, I don't think sniper is an easy role to play with. Sitting at safe hideout and firing out all your bullets will not help you practice your shooting skills. From my perspective, sniper should always change his location, keep running from one safe spot to the another without exposure. Once he fires, it needs to count and he needs to remain undetected. There is good example in our internal playtest - we have a person sitting on the top of killboard even if all combat happens in the research facility. He is really good at scout, and constantly hiding and shooting from different places. In other words, play smart and you'll still do well. It's good that certain maps favour certain roles, it means that every time you get a new map you have to adjust your tactics, it keep the gameplay fresh, and it forces you to do things with your class that you wouldn't normally do. As a vehicle player I love the new outpost, it presents challenges and while the close quarters combat it provides isn't the best for vehicles it has the happy side effect of providing lots of ways to break LoS with AV, ultimately you just have to HTFU and adapt to the map your on.
Also CCP stiffneck, I get the impression from your post that English isn't your first language so I'm making the assumption that you're one of the shanghai devs, am I correct in that regard? If so its nice to see you guys start being more active on the forums. |
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