double standard.

infantry hotswaps at supply depots.

My newly buffed, doubly overpowered, map long range weapon that fires auto tracking missiles against one of the highest priority targets in game has an extremely risky and situation counter that takes 10 seconds to do. Life is so hard.

double standard.

infantry hotswaps at supply depots.

Double Standard.

Infantry need a supply depot. If tanks needed one, I'd be fine with losing the kill. Or if we had timers on suit swaps, I'd be fine with that too.

Furthermore, you still get a kill when you someone 'hot swaps', and your weapons aren't suddenly useless.

Both are stupid and should be unable to be done whilst under fire.

There should be at least a 5 second timer after taking damage before you can start recalling a vehicle or change dropsuit.

I was within grenade throwing range and he had barely 200 shields when he stopped moving. I did in fact throw all three of my grenades, but his glowing tank ate just enough to survive (I assume shield hardeners?). He hopped out in the middle of nowhere less than 20 meters from me, almost dead, and still had the time to recall. If this happened to you, you'd scream bullshit and you know it. Stop acting the persecuted party HAVs. It doesn't suit you.

you forget until uprising we couldnt even recall anyway. in 1.5 we will need depots. infantry swap just like tanks, and more often. until infantry gets changed, stay off tanks. did you even have AV or were you another AR guy who couldnt kill with his AV nades?

WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
sidearm much?

Sidearm vs Duvolle AR. Guess which wins every time.

saying you can still shoot at a person at a depot is the same as shooting a tanker as he recalls....because, you know.....he has to stand there and recall.

I was within grenade throwing range and he had barely 200 shields when he stopped moving. I did in fact throw all three of my grenades, but his glowing tank ate just enough to survive (I assume shield hardeners?). He hopped out in the middle of nowhere less than 20 meters from me, almost dead, and still had the time to recall. If this happened to you, you'd scream bullshit and you know it. Stop acting the persecuted party HAVs. It doesn't suit you.

Lol I just use my HAV to clear out turrets so I can fly my dropship. It's a cheap throwaway compared to my incubus, I get lots of war points for doing so and it's the best way to prevent you guys from changing up at supply depots. But with what swarms are capable of doing to tanks the guy made the right decision. Sorry you didn't get the kill but you did get it off the field.

I don't begrudge him calling his tank back, but I wish the mechanic made more sense. Infantry have to retreat to a supply depot, a relatively safe area. Losing the kill would've stung less if he either had to retreat before he recalled, there was a Bolas pickup, or I got damage points like in Ye Olde Days.

On the far side of the tank, which you cannot shoot under. Furthermore you can move while recalling, similar to hacking. Also, having a Duvolle does not preclude one having a tank. Only idiotic purists would believe such claptrap.

or someone who knows what hes talking about. get the stick out of your ass, lighten up, and stop complaining about some guy who recalled his tank in time. Recalling is one of the only things saving tanks in the current build. especially since your swarms now do double the dps

Look back in the OP. See the word Swarms? Thank you for being literate.

Infantry do not swap just like tanks. If you are going to kill someone at a depot and he changes fits, you are still going to kill his immobile suit. Furthermore, I can't swap fits in the middle of the ma, I need a depot to do so. Speaking of depots, you will need them in 1.5 for ammo, but that still doesn't preclude the tank despawning.

I won't stay off your precious tank as this is an incredibly stupid mechanic. The tank just blows up when you recall it. If a Bolas came down and grabbed it from me, that'd been fine, but I just had to sit there and watch as 210 war points faded into dust.

double standard.

infantry hotswaps at supply depots.

or someone who knows what hes talking about. get the stick out of your ass, lighten up, and stop complaining about some guy who recalled his tank in time. Recalling is one of the only things saving tanks in the current build. especially since your swarms now do double the dps

Sidearm vs Duvolle AR. Guess which wins every time.

Commando suit

/your reply

Mine do Quadruple ... since we're just making up arbitrary multipliers !

I brought this up and literally 90% of the forum was like

NO OMG RECALLING TANKS IN COMBAT IS FINE SHUT YOUR FACE

Any well designed game would cancel the recall when you shoot it...

Just like ARs should take out vehicles, right?

So you've had someone disappear into the ether while shooting at them I take it?

arbitrary numbers? you havent seen any of the threads that have posted the freaking math on this?

you people are amazing, vehicles are nerfed into shi.t and you still keep demanding more. either you are just that helpless or you seriously have no business offering up help to CCP. I shudder to think of the QQ that will ensue once 1.5 rolls around and CCP rebalances the entire system.

Both are stupid and should be unable to be done whilst under fire.

There should be at least a 5 second timer after taking damage before you can start recalling a vehicle or change dropsuit.

it doesnt dissapear into the ether. it cloaks and a cloaked RDV comes and picks it up. theres even the audio and a timer that makes us wait for another vehicle.

in EVE you cant damage cloaked **** unless you can make it decloak by getting within 3km of the cloaked ship, which in Dust distances would be about the current passive scanning range.

now, say you had an active scanner, it would be pretty sweet if you could make the RDV decloak as it is making the pickup

We are not asking for a big nerf Lurchyboy, we are asking that the recall feature be used as a RECALL FEATURE, not as a get-out-of-screwup-free button. If a tank gets close enough that you can throw packed AV nades at it, it deserves to die, not flick on hardeners (which work while the tank is unmanned, the hell?) and just blow up the tank yourself, but in a way that magically allows you to keep it. The Recall should have a Bolas show up and recall the tank. It should be used to pull the tank back when you no longer need it, not as a bloody TRIAGE SYSTEM.

I would agree with that. I would also agree with being able to still damage the cloaked vehicle, as if it's just cloaked it should still be there to take damage. EVE ships that are cloaked can still be hurt by omnidirectional attacks like bombs or smartbombs, only targeted turrets cannot hit them. My last 'nade would have killed it if that were the case, so I would accept such as a reasonable recall system. Nomatter how you slice it though, the current recall just makes the vehicle dissolve with an audio clip.

if the tanker had a duvolle, then hes not much of a tanker and you should have killed his tank outright. if he has a shield tank, then you had the wrong tool for the job

your not an average tanker with an average amount of sp i take it tho. and is every one of your skills maxed or just enough to get the best mods? i refer to a tanker as someone who maxes out those skills, as an infantry owuld max out assault skills if he was an assautl, not just enough to be competent in it.

any guy can call in a tank, but not too many have a well specced tank

and in the current system infantry also have unrealistic advantages, moreso than tanks. For one, your guns do more damage than my tank turrets and your guns shoot farther than my tank turrets.

1.5 they will be changing all this, and ill be right there with ya molding the shi.t out of it with a lot of these ideas. but right now you are just trying to step on an ant that has already been sprayed with RAID and its freaking annoying because you've already got crutches under both arms, one holding up your di.ck, and a soft cozy bed right behind you should you lose your balance

you see, there is your issue. you assume that just because you can get close to a tank you think you simply deserve to blow it up, because that takes some kind of skill. This also implies that you believe your AT MAX 175k isk suit should be an end all death dealer to someone's million isk tanks. In the end the New Eden universe revolves around money and the risk vs. reward here is stupidly unbalanced. It seems CCP agrees, since you know, 1.5 is all about changing vehicles instead of giving more infantry stuff or more maps

i have sp just to get best mods. i looked into maxing them and the bonus wasn't good enough. i would have prefered to have some infantry skills in case they screw everything up. although i am working on maxing my tank skills now that i have no more infantry skills to get. only need 2 mil sp. :D. well until they release pilot suits. XD

I assume that I can kill an unmanned HAV, yes. Does that make me deluded? That a vehicle with noone in it should die? You are crying foul that the glass cannon paper to the beefy HAVrock cannot kill an unmanned tank. You are bloody AMAZING Lurch.

A tad explicit don't you think? So should we ignore the melee glitch because meleeing as a combat style is weak anyway? Should CCP have ignored the Shotgun bugs they say they're patching tomorrow because the shotty OHKs when it feels like working? Incongruities, whether due to bugs or bad design choices, should not be overlooked. I agree that the small turrets need work, but you need to get the rest of the turret types before we can really say if they are underpowered. The only turrets are the tiny range high DPS and the longass range tiny DPS. And Missiles, which are just kinda there. These are all seperate issues that are only tangentially related to my point. In your blind rush to defend everything Vehicular, you forget to ask yourself 'what does this look like to the other guy?' or 'what if instead of looking at this, they look at the infantry?' What if they decide to give infantry the right to just swap suits whenever because you were so adament about protecting this broken feature?
I don't want recalls gone. I don't want your tank nerfed, in fact I recently fought for them to receive a buff, you were even in that thread. I just want the recall feature to be a recall. If you want cloaking modules, ask CCP for cloaking. If you want Triage mode, prod them for Triage mode. But we NEED the recall feature to be looked at. What if, when Siege Mode and Triage Mode come out we have the same recall system? They will NEVER DIE. People will just flip on their module for the enhanced resistances inherent in the mode, flip on a Hardener for good measure, and recall. You NEED to pick your battles and look at this objectively. It makes no sense for them to just 'poof.'

vehicles disappearing into thin air is pretty lame to be honest !

Edit : Forget the 10 seconds hacking ... just click a button on your wristband and run away ... x seconds later a RDV comes and picks it up and flies off with it.

Considering how bad RDVs are at delivering the vehicles, picking them up would be a bad choice.

i didnt even bother reading that because now you are just using circumstantial "evidence" that isnt even evidence. A glitch is not the same as a working game mechanic. Whether you or i agree about how the recall system should work, it is a system. melee glitching isnt an ingame system for meleeing people

in case you didnt get that last post, there is a different between an exploit and a game mechanic. TAC ARs in their heyday were clearly broken, but they were legit. The old exploit where you could hide in a null cannon isnt legit, just like the melee glitch. (i cant believe people have the balls to glitch in PC)

yeah, well that goes to my point. getting rank 3 of anything doesnt really matter. its 4 and 5 that cost the sp

hard-working AV players .

Just for the record, guys, if you shoot the person doing the recall, that interrupts it and he has to start again.

If you let a tank run away far enough that the driver can get out and recall it while you're shooting, and you don't have time to either kill the tank OR line up some way of hitting the driver, he outplayed you. A properly-aimed close-range swarm volley could hit someone on the opposite side if you're as close as you say you were.

I was within grenade throwing range and he had barely 200 shields when he stopped moving. I did in fact throw all three of my grenades, but his glowing tank ate just enough to survive (I assume shield hardeners?). He hopped out in the middle of nowhere less than 20 meters from me, almost dead, and still had the time to recall. If this happened to you, you'd scream bullshit and you know it. Stop acting the persecuted party HAVs. It doesn't suit you.

or someone who knows what hes talking about. get the stick out of your ass, lighten up, and stop complaining about some guy who recalled his tank in time. Recalling is one of the only things saving tanks in the current build. especially since your swarms now do double the dps

Double the DPS?

Have you used swarms this build?

obv, but he wants it to be easier

the one saving grace tanks have right now is that we can retreat, since we cant just bob in and out from behind a wall like infantry. Apparently, now that is even a problem and we have to just accept that a swarmer is entitled to kill rights on our million isk tanks simply because he has a swarm launcher in his hands.

arbitrary numbers? you havent seen any of the threads that have posted the freaking math on this?

you people are amazing, vehicles are nerfed into shi.t and you still keep demanding more. either you are just that helpless or you seriously have no business offering up help to CCP. I shudder to think of the QQ that will ensue once 1.5 rolls around and CCP rebalances the entire system.

lol, trust me, i am straining. its like talking to a kid. either come with some legit reasons other than it is inconvenient for you, or take the time to see things from another perspective. What we have is finally on par with infantry and now that we have it, obviously people will qq. changing the recall feature demands a change to the infantry supply depot mechanisms as well, and you can bet THAT wont happen any time soon.

in the meantime, stick to your homing nukes and ill stick to dealing with them.

The tanker didn't retreat. He just hopped out. Furthermore, Swarms can't hit a player, I have no idea where Garrett got that idea. I cannot control the trajectory of swarms, they seek on their own. He didn't 'retreat', he bloody teleported. A recaller can just play merry-go-round until he finishes, and there's nothing AV can do. Swarms have no primary weapon, Forges are too slow, and AV grenades aren't a real AV weapon. If you can teleport out of the middle of battle, you outplayed noone. You abused a broken mechanic.

Also, AV takes no skill? Really? I have no control over the swarms, so I need to ensure I have the clearest, shortest possible shot, and even then they may still decide to spread and swerve into a building with no fault of my own. A Forge Gunner needs to aim and lead a violently shaking, no ADS device. We require as much skill as your beloved HAV does, if not more due to our patented inability to fight off Infantry, which you can flat-out ignore if they don't have one of three weapons.

You can try and bring your tired worn out 'TAKE PITY ON MY USELESS TANK' routine here, but that is not the point of the thread. The point is the abuse of recall as a free pass. You can deny it all you want, you can try to push the Supply Depot infantry standpoint all you want, but there is a key difference. I've already pointed it out. If someone swaps suits while under fire, they are still going to die. If someone teleports their vehicles out of the middle of battle, they are a full health whatever-they-want-to-be whereas the AVer is a guy without a primary weapon. if you cannot see the imbalance, there is nothing I can do, consult an optometrist.

1: Okay, go around the HAV and shoot his ass.

2: Swarms can hit players.

3: Now, if a RDV (after they fix those stupid POS) came and pick it up, would you stop bitchin?

4: I call BS or you got **** skills on the AV is too weak

5: Forges require good aim? Da' fuq' you on?

So an AV scrub is complaining that his swarms were unable to defeat a tank in time even though he can now mag dump the suckers?

Yeah, I don't care.

So do you endorse teleporting out of battle?

Still going on about this huh? So does this mean we vehicle uses should get to use infantry tracking missile turrets when we get ammo count? Fair's fair.

The driver didn't teleport.

He was still around for you to kill. I don't see why you are complaining.

Oh thats right, you wanted to fatten your wallet because your autolocking, target tracking rocket launcher should trump everything.

Go play in traffic.

i direct hit 15 infantry on the ground with a forge gun the other day. and 8 the game after. forge is easy u just suck. XD and swarms are easy to use if u say they actually take skill ur a noob. -_-

i 1 shot milita tanks or 2 if modded and blow up most tanks in 2 clips. better tanks might take more. :D

Yes I'm still going on about this. Teleporting out of battle using a broken system is not 'fair.'

My my, such venom.

My Manually locking, target tracking rocket launcher is not the problem here. It is the teleporting tanks. For that matter, the driver did teleport, out of his tank. I wasn't RIGHT UP ON the tank, and he was hiding behind it. I don't see why I have to reiterate this to every hypersensitive HAV 'pilot' who bothers to come by.

For that matter, I did play in traffic. Then the traffic dissolved into dust and the driver pulled out an Assault Rifle.

The thread isn't about AV power. Please stay on topic.

i'm sorry. if ur av was stronger u could have killed the tank. plus if u were smart u wouldn't use swarms on a shield tank in the first place. and recalling tanks is fine it's the only way i can switch what tank i am using without losing 1 million or 2 especially if there is an enemy rail tank and i am a blaster tank. XD i mean u guys have a way to switch between suit why not tanks XD.

On the far side of the tank, which you cannot shoot under. Furthermore you can move while recalling, similar to hacking. Also, having a Duvolle does not preclude one having a tank. Only idiotic purists would believe such claptrap.

having infinite av nades is a broken system as well. am i wrong? and those damn proto nades wreck tanks even with 3 nades. i normally to die to 6 of those nades.

Speaking of idiotic purists I seem to recall you had 3 grenades. Why didn't you throw them over the vehicle to kill the driver as he was recalling?

It's hilarious Howe many people toting dirt cheap proto AV feel entitled to destroy all vehicles just because they lay eyes on them.
I mean seriously, what's it take to run proto AV and grenades? About 70k. What's a basic tank cost with survival gear? 500k.

At those prices tanks more than deserve multiple venues of escape vs equipment that can devastate them.

I didn't say I wanted recalling gone, I said I wanted it fixed. The tank just disappears off the face of the (whatever planet). If I swap suits and someone is shooting at me they still kill me. I would be fine if the tank could still be killed after a recall took place, like the suggested Bolas pickup. When something crumbles to dust, it is supposed to be dead. Not 'recalled'. Also, the Swarms are the only choice for Light AV, what else am I supposed to use?

Also, instaswapping at supply depots needs to go then. Please enjoy your 5 minute wait while your clone gets changed. Or take a death and do a hotswap to a new clone, enjoy the ten second respawn timer.

Because you want fair right?

I dislike the Grenade Resupply system, but it is not broken. If you wander into an enemy outpost where they have Nanohives set up, it's your funeral. No questions asked, you screwed up. Also, 6 nades is 3 more than a player can carry, and it is proto versus Standard/Militia. Once again though, off topic.

who said anything about wandering into the enemy base they can throw them behind u. or behind a wall. also i know u can only carry 3 nades. it's called a nano hive bro. and they are in proto suits jumping in circles throwing them while i'm activating modules backing up and trying to shoot him all at the same time. then if i get out of range they spam me with swarms. it's not really hard to kill a tank. u just have the wrong tactics.

I wouldn't mind the removal of this feature, but it is off topic. You are attacking infantry because I stated a problem with your beloved HAVs. At least infantry need to retreat to save their suit, not just flick on a hardener and hold a button.

Yes I'm still going on about this. Teleporting out of battle using a broken system is not 'fair.'

plasma cannon which does extra damage to shields. although it's a bit weak as an AV weapon. and what he do just jump out and recall the vehicle in front of all of u? did u just let him do it and not shoot him?i mean u have a sidearm for a reason.

I don't begrudge him calling his tank back, but I wish the mechanic made more sense. Infantry have to retreat to a supply depot, a relatively safe area. Losing the kill would've stung less if he either had to retreat before he recalled, there was a Bolas pickup, or I got damage points like in Ye Olde Days.

first- if it was so closing to killing it u shouldn't have failed.

second- i kill the pilot before the tank. they are normally an easier target.

third- how did he get behind it. u hop out on the side or in front. so u let him get behind his tank.

forth- the pilot is weaker and u should have known he was recalling it wat else would he be doing?

Bob, he is convinced that he was wronged.

He will never admit that he messed up and the other guy got very lucky.

Stop trying to explain it to him, he doesn't understand tank business.

Here, they already know so whatever. And just so you know, if you think it's hard now next update we are finally getting prototype modules and hopefully the framework for prototype vehicles will be set. Hopefully we will also get some countermeasures as well.

When we get racial variants of dropsuits, weapons and vehicles you'll have more to contend with. So this is as easy street as it gets for AV. Hell, my ADS can't even render infantry over 50 meters away even with active scanners on, in addition to the issues with the new camera and flight issues.

true.

Look at Blaze's post. I was right. I. WIN.

Thank you for the link to a bluepost Blaze, you are the only HAVer here with any kind of sense. I don't think it is too hard to kill a vehicle, quite the opposite. I just think that an unmanned HAV should die. I have no problem with them getting proto, I relish the challenge. I just do not like the recall system. I point out one thing wrong and the entirety of the tanking community comes down on me. Thank you for vindicating me with the bluepost, and I wish you luck with your new equipment in 1.5. You see how fast the thread got off track from the simple Recall problem to 'YOUR KILLING OUR TANKS' so I hope 1.5 will placate that somewhat.

2x the ROF, 52% DPS buff bro.

If he managed to recall a vehicle while being hit by AV, he deserves to keep it.

Im actually with Dark souls dude here.

Am an AV player. people have tried to do this vs me, i just change weapon and shoot them with my SMG, no problem.... then hack their tank if it has at least 1/4 HP....OR blow it up if its REALLY f*** up...XD

lets all be real for a second......

**** that dragon

Which one, red spiky one, really useful new game tail sword if you can use a bow?

Yeah he can s** it...

I could only kill him once.... : /

when you damage a vehicle while its being recalled, if you make it catch fire, the recall stops until either it blows upor the pilot repairs it. its a double standard, infantry think they are entitled to everything that gives them an unfair advantage over everything else and they don't believe anyone else deserves to be on equal grounds to them

Throw AV grenades at a player? Are you mad? I threw them at the Tank, I was just within range for them to land right on top. the third one phased through the melting 'recalled' tank.

Furthermore, do you know how many 'dirt cheap' AV fittings a player loses just trying to get to the offending vehicle, let alone how many can be lost on the vehicle itself?

double standard.

infantry hotswaps at supply depots.