I going to be a bit twisted and connect this thread with this one ;

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=105679&find=unread

The answer is in the mentality show in that thread .... Best players are not the ones with the best skills, but the ones with the BEST equipment. That is the reason why CCP is having problems balancing this game.. some of the so considered BEST players, are just people that can afford the best equipment in regular basics, take that away... and most of them will be very average players.

When the SP total people had including me was sub 1m sp back at the start of the game my scores where cosistently in the 25-30+ kills sub 3 deaths a match, this continued well into the 10-12m SP mark, it was far easier to beat double stacked teams back then, because of the time it took to kill one of them was faster then most of them could react, right now with piled Proto-gear a team of 6 has ample time to react to an ambush done by 1 guy before their buddy drops, going straight up unless you score a headshot is suicide because you almost cannot kill someone fast enough before the rest reacts, all he has to do is run for the hills and your forced to swap target and again and again, until their leapfrog tactic carries them to your position.

Or they all chuck explosives your way and yer screwed regardless of using cover.

Proto-gear should not be sustainable at all even if you only die once in a blue moon, and this is me saying it while using protogear 24/7 with 300m in my bank and dying very little with well over 19m sp..

When the SP total people had including me was sub 1m sp back at the start of the game my scores where cosistently in the 25-30+ kills sub 3 deaths a match, this continued well into the 10-12m SP mark, it was far easier to beat double stacked teams back then, because of the time it took to kill one of them was faster then most of them could react, right now with piled Proto-gear a team of 6 has ample time to react to an ambush done by 1 guy before their buddy drops, going straight up unless you score a headshot is suicide because you almost cannot kill someone fast enough before the rest reacts, all he has to do is run for the hills and your forced to swap target and again and again, until their leapfrog tactic carries them to your position.

Or they all chuck explosives your way and yer screwed regardless of using cover.

Proto-gear should not be sustainable at all even if you only die once in a blue moon, and this is me saying it while using protogear 24/7 with 300m in my bank and dying very little with well over 19m sp..

P.S. Don't kidd yourself two deaths and you lose ISK running proto.

It's the reason most of my ADV fits have RE's or locus nades.

You do realize officer suits will one day be available right? Most people are poor enough. Several granted have multi-millions to spend but they are few.

P.S. Don't kidd yourself two deaths and you lose ISK running proto.

The bottom line is;

- It should be LOTS of standard gear variations, cheap and affordable.

- AVD gear should became what Proto gear is right now, a suit design for Competitive game play, with enough variations to keep people interested.

- Prototype gear should be a "Special" suit... a bit like a combat boost skill.. something that you only use in extreme circumstances as a "God Mode" option.

Tis the reason I throw nades before hacking.

Not sure where i am kidding myself when i am sitting on 300m ISK ...

also as someone who plays EVE, if Officer gear is an indication there, it will be 1-2% better then Tech II but cost 100 times more, and we dont even have Tech II stuff yet, you also forgot Faction gear being there inbetween Tech II skill and Officer gear.



This was how i thought it was going to be with Eves Risk vs reward and the Don't fly what you cant replace.

Right now i can replace 1500 suits,on average i die once a match, sometimes go streaks of 0 deaths then nick 2-3 in the same game, so ill be stocked to go for another 1000-1500 mathches in the same proto-suit by that time ill be again sitting another 300m since it never goes up or down.

But yeah, risk vs reward right ?

First off if you think you are special with 300mil I have the same and i'm not impressed. Second off **** eve. I do not care what fittings they have to go through for SPACESHIPS much less the cost. This is a FPS shooter where you die more than mining in space. Losses will occur, making them cost multi-millions will only hurt the poor and less skilled. This is not eve. Guess you want the advantage?

Mining in space is a whole lot more costly then dying a few times in a protosuit, they make maximum an 11m per hour and their ship costs 200-700m, they also get blown up quite often by gankers.

Ive had 300m ISK since well before Uprising....

For me, i dont need the advantage, but idd really like to feel the thrill of not trying to die and finally getting the adrenaline shot when i do die, witch in eve when you head into low sec with a 1b isk fitted ships accompanies you automatically.

you maybe dont want to admit it, but theres Eve right ABOVE the dust logo, so ******* eve makes no sense..

unless you use vehicles

Guess you don't want to admit there is no connection to eve atm. Seems that slips by you.

Again, For those such as ourselves the only people we are hurting by raising prices is those who are less skilled and the poor agreed? So why do it?

Yes and No ...Lets say that a Proto suit cost you 2,000,000 isk (without modules or weapons) for how long you think you can use it, before it becomes totally unaffordable ? eventually you will be forced to use it only in PC battles.. now and again.

Yes and No ...Lets say that a Proto suit cost you 2,000,000 isk (without modules or weapons) for how long you think you can use it, before it becomes totally unaffordable ? eventually you will be forced to use it only in PC battles.. now and again.

So Eon will rule forever? I can play vagina if I have too but that's not my play style. So how will the less skilled ever use it?

Not very long, it would then become a choice to use and your choice alone to loose it, noone would be able to use proto 24/7, i would crack one out if i saw an old rival on the field, but right now for me a Protosuit = standard while the Average guy runs inferiour suits.

Someone that dies 10 times on average can in no way use proto even at a low cost of 200k isk anyways, so even if they want to its already out of reach, while we run it 24/7.

So Eon will rule forever? I can play vagina if I have too but that's not my play style. So how will the less skilled ever use it?

Not even Eon will be available to afford 2,000,000+ isk suits in every match.. think about it..

2,500,000 isk ( For example ) x 16 players = 40,000,000 isk .... die a couple of times and ..80,000,000 isk.

sounds like you would be pretty b*tth*rt from loosing your suit huh?

Considering they are the richest with BILLIONS we are among the broke ones?

Considering they are the richest with BILLIONS we are among the broke ones?

You got a 12 year old syndrome or something ? those billions will evaporate really really fast and will normalize in a couple of weeks, as it is right now they will keep piling on billions and billions without ever loosing a single one of them.

Oh wait.............. no risk, all reward..........

You could potentially drain their isk battle after battle...eventually the will have to give up planets and systems because it will became "unaffordable" and impossible to maintain.

LOL. I know you are not new. Everyone agrees Eon run it right now. Untill you get gud they will continue. Got it?

And why would i be new or what would suggest i am new,?, i dont do PC battles so i wouldnt know who rules and i wont care until it gets a real connection to eve, some people have tried hiring me in a past but it wasnt in my timezone.

And why would i be new or what would suggest i am new,?, i dont do PC battles so i wouldnt know who rules and i wont care until it gets a real connection to eve, some people have tried hiring me in a past but it wasnt in my timezone.

That and 13ear used to send me fanmail when i played regurly against them, so yeah not so new.

at your edit. And?

t


It's possible but not likely. They have depth to make any no name corp. a contender. Plus ATM they have the ISK to lock them down so they wont be lost.

Well... it seems that what we need is a strong anti-Eon Alliance.. a World War 1 ( WW1 ) The first New Eden World War

For real? We just had that.

Really ? ... i wasn't very effective then .... You need to get everyone involved, including small corps and individual players. Maybe have CCP put it in the "News Screen"

Proto should NOT cost more...yet...

I took out a 130k suit once and got sniped straight away.

Would people play this game if they could lose a couple MILLION ISK to getting run over or sniped?

Prototype equipment should be so rare that you'll never see it used in pubmatches at all.

Advanced gear should be so expensive that dying once or twice in a pubmatch makes you lose money.

Standard gear should be, you know, the STANDARD, not prototype gear.

ill be blunt on this topic, i drop proto suits within seconds with my shotgun/smg/ar. If youre really having trouble killing protos, youre bad at the game. Plus proto gear is something post chromosome players look foward to and a journey of grind to earn. A new player finally gets a decent protofit after months of grinding and uses it to experience the payoff for his grind.

So he scraps up lol2million isk for his suit alone with some adv mods and goes into battle.First thing when he spawns he gets hit by an OB. Instant death. So he grinds 10 matches (assuming hes earning roughly 200,000 a game) enough for another proto. He goes into battle, spawns on bravo and gets completely owned by an Adv assault forge from the heavens. See where im going with this? 2 millions isk just to last a few extra seconds? No

Seriously? You must not be in the know.

What about officer gear and rich corps who can afford to run it 24/7?

I know some of the big Corps united against Eon... but that isn't total unification.. this is when the famous EvE lore should come into play strongly... total unification against them... the Liberation of New Eden... the Fight for equality ... I don't know.. some of that crap...

What about officer gear and rich corps who can afford to run it 24/7?

They should not be able to afford to run it 23/7, period. Losing a protosuit should matter to you. CCP wanted to balance tiers by ISK but obviously they completely failed.

I don't care what has to be done to get rid of proto squads stomping pubmatches but something HAS to be done. And matchmaking will not be the solution to solves this, it will only hide what really is wrong with this system at the moment from new players.

The best solution would obvisously be the removal of the current tier system and the introduction of a system where more advanced gear makes you better in CERTAIN situations instead of plain all situations.

Wouldn't that be P2W?

What the **** are you even talking about?

The best solution would obvisously be the removal of the current tier system and the introduction of a system where more advanced gear makes you better in CERTAIN situations instead of plain all situations.

This maybe?

If you keep throwing stupid one-liners at me instead of explaining what your point is I will just assume that you are trolling and stop talking to you.

The bottom line is;

- It should be LOTS of standard gear variations, cheap and affordable.

- AVD gear should became what Proto gear is right now, a suit design for Competitive game play, with enough variations to keep people interested.

- Prototype gear should be a "Special" suit... a bit like a combat boost skill.. something that you only use in extreme circumstances as a "God Mode" option.

"Proto is cool and all, but give the rich and powerful something even more awesome only they can afford!!!" is what you are suggesting. I can smell the tears already.

This ... this is awesome. lmao

Yea, go back to the University. You are not ready. I said paying to have and advantage is PWT. Seen you cannot comprehend that. Come back when you have enough credits.

The best solution would obvisously be the removal of the current tier system and the introduction of a system where more advanced gear makes you better in CERTAIN situations instead of plain all situations.

I've been playing this game since August 2012, kid.

What you are talking about does not make any sense and I think you just realised this yourself.

The way the system works at the moment is you pay more ISK to get gear that makes you just plain better than people who use inferior gear. What I and many others suggest is that instead of protogear making you better in everything it should only make you better in fulfilling certain roles. How is that P2W?

Shhh. Don't drop the knowledge bomb their heads might explode.

So rather than just balancing 4 assaults against each other, they would be balancing 12? I haven't really heard the next positive step from this idea. I just don't know how it would work.

Lets take the Gallente Assault class. Do you build the current ADV suit as the base model? Then what are the variations? Do you move a slot around? Or do you keep the slots/stats as they are and ONLY mess with skills?

If ANYTHING I would ONLY want to see the last option. So "gallente dropsuit operation" would unlock 3 different suits at pretty low SP cost and have the same current skills that exist for all gallente assaults. But each of those 3 suits might have their own proficiency skill.

Every assault class could have a combat, attack, and specialist variant. Combat would be a little more tank oriented, attack would focus more on that race's use of high damage while sacrificing tank, and the specialist variant would be a more unique role that maybe emphasizes that race's racial weaponry to the fullest extent.

So all assaults get +5% shield regen per level.
All gallente assaults get +5% fitting reduction to PG/CPU for hybrid weapons per level (including the basic suit)
'Voulgier' Assault Suit: Gallente Combat Proficiency gives a -10% speed penalty reduction on plates per level.
'Lancer' Assault Suit: Gallente Attack Proficiency gives a -4% CPU/PG cost for light damage modules per level.
'Gendarme' Assault Suit: Gallente Specialist Proficiency gives a +3% optimal range to plasma weapons per level.

The problem is though, the more variations, the harder it is to balance. Balancing 4 tiers of assaults is (probably) easier than 4 lines with 3 sub-classes.

Oh wait.............. no risk, all reward..........

I'm guessing the OP does not realize he would only be hurting the average to sub-par players. Not to mention the poor folk. Killers will always be killers yo.

Whether prices are raised astronomically or not, I'll leave that up to CCP.

On the occasion that I would run a high priced proto I can only imagine having the fortune of immediately being spawn killed or OBd. :/

Fun...

No all those people that have dominated the game (even after resets) are just being carrying by SP.

I've never been a part of any other gaming community forum, but this one has a good share of stupid people in it.

I can't afford to run proto all the time and I've been running around a 3.0 since Uprising hit. If you can't run a profit at 3.0 then it's certainly not some big problem.

I think the prices of suits needs to go down in order to keep people fighting in the pub matches. There's just not much incentive to fight in a competitive pub match if you can go 20-4 in ADV gear and not turn a profit.

And to the stupid bastard that wants to raise the price of equipment..... REALLY??? You want less ammo and spawn points on the battlefield? I just.... I can't.... WHY?

[quote=JL3Eleven]I'm guessing the OP does not realize he would only be hurting the average to sub-par players. Not to mention the poor folk. Killers will always be killers yo.

WoW ! ... the problem is BIG corps that can afford to run Proto all the time....I already accepted the fact that i CAN'T run Proto constantly, but is nothing stopping big corps from constantly Pubstomping battles. Higher Proto prices will force Corps to use Prototype Equipment only in PC battles, making casual play more enjoyable.

I am seriously the only one in this Forums that can see this ?

WoW ! ... the problem is BIG corps that can afford to run Proto all the time....I already accepted the fact that i CAN'T run Proto constantly, but is nothing stopping big corps from constantly Pubstomping battles. Higher Proto prices will force Corps to use Prototype Equipment only in PC battles, making casual play more enjoyable.

I am seriously the only one in this Forums that can see this ?

A full proto suit should cost 2-3 mills (gear and all), simply cuz they can outtake 10 to 20 full ADV dGÇÖs (same gear and all), in well about 200-300k ISK each, in almost all encounters, while team efforts are a whole another story, warfare tactics and such.

Should be..
Full **** = 1 GÇô 10k
Full STND =10 GÇô 50k
Full ADV = 100 GÇô 500k
Full PRO = 1 GÇô 5 mills
.. fair enough.

That way ADV would be the top players standard, the most balanced gear the game has right now (in reward/cost); only benefits could come out of these and it certainly would diminish some of the big issues going on these days.

PC also plays a big part in all of these and matchmaking needs to keep track of: ISK founds of each player - kdr - input (ds3 or kbm) - and allocated sp.

Oh wait.............. no risk, all reward..........

WoW ! ... the problem is BIG corps that can afford to run Proto all the time....I already accepted the fact that i CAN'T run Proto constantly, but is nothing stopping big corps from constantly Pubstomping battles. Higher Proto prices will force Corps to use Prototype Equipment only in PC battles, making casual play more enjoyable.

I am seriously the only one in this Forums that can see this ?

We can't afford to run Proto all the time. I doubt everybody in Eon can run proto all the time. If you die in a proto suit ONCE it's very likely you can't profit in that match.

I'll break out a Proto every now and then in a pub, but it's mostly ADV gear.

If I could afford it, I would. Because I've been playing for a LONG time and I've grinded my ass off for my proto stuff.

Just keep hanging on until we can team deploy. When we are able to team deploy in FW it'll clear the pubs quite a bit for people that solo a lot or are in small corps with only 2 or 3 people on at a time.

I'm guessing the OP does not realize he would only be hurting the average to sub-par players. Not to mention the poor folk. Killers will always be killers yo.

Before uprising my proto heavy forge setup cost just over 1 mill isk that was an investmet that was only used in corp battles now I see countless protos in pubs and just sigh becaus their is verry little risk when they are facing down a team of randoms.

Proto should NOT cost more...yet...

I took out a 130k suit once and got sniped straight away.

Would people play this game if they could lose a couple MILLION ISK to getting run over or sniped?

ill be blunt on this topic, i drop proto suits within seconds with my shotgun/smg/ar. If youre really having trouble killing protos, youre bad at the game. Plus proto gear is something post chromosome players look foward to and a journey of grind to earn. A new player finally gets a decent protofit after months of grinding and uses it to experience the payoff for his grind.

So he scraps up lol2million isk for his suit alone with some adv mods and goes into battle.First thing when he spawns he gets hit by an OB. Instant death. So he grinds 10 matches (assuming hes earning roughly 200,000 a game) enough for another proto. He goes into battle, spawns on bravo and gets completely owned by an Adv assault forge from the heavens. See where im going with this? 2 millions isk just to last a few extra seconds? No

my proto suit cost 150k- is that too little since i lose at least 5 in a game to LLAV's

No all those people that have dominated the game (even after resets) are just being carrying by SP.

I've never been a part of any other gaming community forum, but this one has a good share of stupid people in it.

I can't afford to run proto all the time and I've been running around a 3.0 since Uprising hit. If you can't run a profit at 3.0 then it's certainly not some big problem.

I think the prices of suits needs to go down in order to keep people fighting in the pub matches. There's just not much incentive to fight in a competitive pub match if you can go 20-4 in ADV gear and not turn a profit.

And to the stupid bastard that wants to raise the price of equipment..... REALLY??? You want less ammo and spawn points on the battlefield? I just.... I can't.... WHY?

People would beat their children if proto suits were 300-400K again and got ran over two or three times.

WoW ! ... the problem is BIG corps that can afford to run Proto all the time....I already accepted the fact that i CAN'T run Proto constantly, but is nothing stopping big corps from constantly Pubstomping battles. Higher Proto prices will force Corps to use Prototype Equipment only in PC battles, making casual play more enjoyable.

I am seriously the only one in this Forums that can see this ?

I played this game for 3 months to get my very first proto suit only recently and I can finally go heads up with other proto users...

Leave it alone, please...

You must never have played PC. No one runs advanced. Proto and up. 5 Mill for proto? What are you playing?

Also, the idea of making proto gear so expensive that you would virtually never see it is so ******* absurd.

"Hey, you know that stuff you grinded for months to get? Well, you still can't use it. HAHAHAHA"