*logical

BTW Devs have shown interest in putting in a minimum arming distance on Mass Drivers so they're used less in CQC.

Sorry but id dosent feel right having a wepon you are weilding dammage you and not the enimy that was a bad idea. The only reason they seem op is because of how badly they got nerfed.

ifim not mistaken a direct hit will not splash. many of us can actually direct hit consistantly in close to mid range as relying on splash to do the work is for chumps. ;)

again I could be totally wrong.

So after seeing threads with both sides giving pros and cons, running mass drivers since Uprising 1.0 (When I Srarted), and being killed just as often I have had found a few things.

When aim assist is returned MD will die as the "FOTM" so many believe it to be, its lack of damage in comparison to auto weaponry will be its downfall.

Sometimes the MD is a LITTLE to easy in cqc, there have been multiple times where I believe I should have been hit by my own splash but wasn't ahd is that is causing the problem where people believe the MD is OP.

So a simple fix is to increase user only splash radius, to maybe 6-7 m on standard, and 8-9m on assault.

So a user and enemy 5m from blast will take damage while at 6.5 only the user will take damage, higher risk, discourages spam, rewards skill, what are people's thoughts??

ifim not mistaken a direct hit will not splash. many of us can actually direct hit consistantly in close to mid range as relying on splash to do the work is for chumps. ;)

again I could be totally wrong.

Fair enough, its just something I notice a lot of other games do to stop it, you can easily explain it with lore, and people who put time and effort into it can still avoid there own damage. You would barely notice unless pointed out to you need and makes more combat oriented sense than an arming distance that effectively resort to melee if you use a logi suit!! although im interested in how nerfing a weapon makes it seem OP please explain more!! (Genuine not being sarcastic)

Fix the damn fall off damage.

Direct hits are the most likely way to suicide with a mass driver.

Fix the damn fall off damage.

I hear this arguement of "doesn't hurt the user" all the time. My only question is do you run a shield heavy suit with the MD? I run it with a Gal Logi. When explosives got fixed, I had to start putting points into shield extenders, and swap a dmg for for extender because I found myself committing suicide more often. And this isn't lack of skill. I've been using the MD since early chromosome, so I'm pretty experienced with it.

If I had my way, the splash would be reduced back to 1.0 standards (-1m) for both enemy and user (on all variants.)

I'm guessing that with 1.4, players will realize it now takes 4-5 shots to take down players now instead of the usual 2-3.

This is because more armor/faster heavies is good.

As a mass driver user myself I think that players just don't know how to face a mass driver. It's most effective range is in between close and medium range. At close range it hurts the user and the user is afraid to fire at his feet. At long range, it's not very accurate unless the enemy is standing in a crowd or not moving.

I can kill mass driver users easily, except when they get on a roof. But when they do that I counter them with my scrambler so...whatever.

Every weapon has a weakness, not everyone knows the best counters. Heck, I get pummeled into he ground most often by ARs because of the massive range they have over me.

Just wait for 1.4

massdriver works as intended, leave it alone

???

Its effectively a grenade so there is no fall off .

Grenades need fall off damage also, by fall off damage I mean lower the damage the further you get from the radius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade

The M67 can be thrown 30 to 35 meters by the average male soldier. It has a 3 second fuse that ignites explosives packed inside a round body. Steel fragments (not to be confused with shrapnel) are provided by the grenade body and produce an injury radius of 15 meters (~45 ft), with a fatality radius of 5 meters (~15 ft), though some fragments can disperse as far out as 250 meters (~820 ft).

As you can see this grenade has a 15 meter radius, at 0-5 meters the grenade is fatal or in video game terms close to full damage, at 6-15 meters the grenade is not lethal but still deals damage and at 16+ meters the grenade is ineffective. Obviously in Dust 514 explosives have a smaller radius but regardless they should have a damage fall off curve as they move away from the radius

Grenades in dust do have fall of damage, but to give to md would require a passive buff to radius and starting damage to make it fair, but people who can use an md effectively will become op overnight. Alot of people dont realiseva proper damage profile, would be like biting your nose to spite your face!!

I'm guessing that with 1.4, players will realize it now takes 4-5 shots to take down players now instead of the usual 2-3.

This is because more armor/faster heavies is good.

As a mass driver user myself I think that players just don't know how to face a mass driver. It's most effective range is in between close and medium range. At close range it hurts the user and the user is afraid to fire at his feet. At long range, it's not very accurate unless the enemy is standing in a crowd or not moving.

I can kill mass driver users easily, except when they get on a roof. But when they do that I counter them with my scrambler so...whatever.

Every weapon has a weakness, not everyone knows the best counters. Heck, I get pummeled into he ground most often by ARs because of the massive range they have over me.

Just wait for 1.4

After being proficient in many weapons I would agree that most the ppl whining have only tried one weapon or so and do not know how to counter it properly. AR users specifically. Tell me this if the MD is so over powered then how in a PC battle with Teamplayers did it take me 15 shots from a boundless to down one TP proto guy. Im at proficieny 3 with an enhanced damage mod. He was hacking a supply depot so most all shots hit him within a meter or two. Most ppl run auto ARs and only autos so most time they are within its range and they die the most. Hence lots of ppl complaining because it is AR 514 still. If the MD was the biggest noob weapon and the most overpowered then why do all noobs and 90 percent of ppl run ARs. I say nerf the auto AR and make its recoil get worse the longer they fire it at full auto.

My thought is this and may I quote the author...

( So a user and enemy 5m from blast will take damage while at 6.5 only the user will take damage, higher risk, discourages spam, rewards skill, what are people's thoughts?? )

That there is is exactly what I think....the problem is spamming...and hence the reason imo it needs a rof nerf or splash damge reduction. Else ppl will just make sure there 5-6m or w/e away, and then yup you guessed it, spamville. ( reminds me of the flaylock )

After being proficient in many weapons I would agree that most the ppl whining have only tried one weapon or so and do not know how to counter it properly. AR users specifically. Tell me this if the MD is so over powered then how in a PC battle with Teamplayers did it take me 15 shots from a boundless to down one TP proto guy. Im at proficieny 3 with an enhanced damage mod. He was hacking a supply depot so most all shots hit him within a meter or two. Most ppl run auto ARs and only autos so most time they are within its range and they die the most. Hence lots of ppl complaining because it is AR 514 still. If the MD was the biggest noob weapon and the most overpowered then why do all noobs and 90 percent of ppl run ARs. I say nerf the auto AR and make its recoil get worse the longer they fire it at full auto.

So after seeing threads with both sides giving pros and cons, running mass drivers since Uprising 1.0 (When I Srarted), and being killed just as often I have had found a few things.

When aim assist is returned MD will die as the "FOTM" so many believe it to be, its lack of damage in comparison to auto weaponry will be its downfall.

Sometimes the MD is a LITTLE to easy in cqc, there have been multiple times where I believe I should have been hit by my own splash but wasn't ahd is that is causing the problem where people believe the MD is OP.

So a simple fix is to increase user only splash radius, to maybe 6-7 m on standard, and 8-9m on assault.

So a user and enemy 5m from blast will take damage while at 6.5 only the user will take damage, higher risk, discourages spam, rewards skill, what are people's thoughts??

I got totally stomped by a proto Freedom MD in yesterdays CBs.

The thing is that he can bunny hop, strafe like a madman and still hit me no problem, same as I can when I use my MD.

For me to track him with my Duvolle with the customary drop in framerate and hit detection was close to impossible. I had a moment where I went through 3 entire Duvolle clips at 10-15 M distance and I barely scratched his shields.

If he was using any other weapon in the game than the MD, he wouldn't stand a chance OF hitting me enough to take me out the way he moved.

The traditional dilemma in any FPS is that the more you move, the more bullets will you dodge and stay alive longer. This however, comes at the cost of your own accuracy being diminshed severely, and it will take you longer to kill your opponent the more you move.

This however is not the case with the MD, you are free to move like speedy Gonzales on crack, and still land shot after shot hitting your enemy.

MD = EZ mode.

No matter what you say, you are all deluding yourself , any good FPS player can pick up a MD with very little skill invested and dominate CQC gameplay.

NOT WORKING AS INTENDED.

ok you can increase damage done to your self...

No you are deluding yourself, if someone with a mass driver were to stand still he wouldn't stand a chance the militia ar has 3 times the dps, if you are engaging him at less than 20m this is md ideal situation, even more so if in a corridor.

Try moving backwards while shooting you may notice some people will miss you!! If the md user isnt allowed to dodge than why do ar users do it.

stop deluding yourself that your a decent fps player, because your story you can't aim, youll be getting aim assist soon and that'll just make ar users clairvoyant!

I never said it takes skil to use, it takes skil to truly master, to take it out of its comfort zone,

I think hes saying that the penalty to strafing with a hitscan weapon in which you have to hit your opponent, is far greater than the penalty of an AOE projectile based weapon.

Not that he cant outstrafe it, its just so much more difficult to stay on target with an AR than a MD while strafing.

THAT is exactly how its meant to work, hitscan weapons are considerably more powerful to compansate!! Only 33% accuracy with an ar is required, which equates to 4 shots on target a second!! This is the ar trade off, power for accuracy, over spray n pray!! The md has more drawbacks and 117 splash on proto md isnt exactly collasal, anything 350 sheilds takes 4-5 shots.

Also consider the ar can get through 2 mgs in the an md can get throu th one and reload!!

The Mass Driver is not working correctly, it has static damage, if one person is at the edge of the blast, another is at the centre, they will both recieve the same amount of damage, every hitscan weapon has a range in which they become useless or do less damage, I want the same to apply to MDs, but through their splash.

I just expect the damage at the edge of the radius to drop drastically.

It only makes sense, MD users certainly cant argue against it, its what happens in every other FPS / TPS where explosives are involved.

Unless they do the same for all aow wepons no. Personally I think its working as intended.

I just expect the damage at the edge of the radius to drop drastically.

It only makes sense, MD users certainly cant argue against it, its what happens in every other FPS / TPS where explosives are involved.

This is what happens with grenades and Fluxes, and possibly the Plasma Cannon.

Why it doesn't apply to the MD is beyond me.

This is what happens with grenades and Fluxes, and possibly the Plasma Cannon.

Why it doesn't apply to the MD is beyond me.

I think you may ge misinterpreting me, this is what it should be, the problem is you can put rounds between you and not take damage. With the change you are now forced to engage further apart, and if you can't get 7m away you need to launch slugs behind your opponent.

Yes spam is a potential problem, but nerfing damage or ROF will just kill the weapon completely!! People who have at least half decent aim with an AR can outgun the MD in its niche environment.

Nooo, nerfing damage might, the rof wont unless they over do it. Currently it assaults people in assault suits with ar's on open ground and it needs to be fixed.

As far as im aware no aoe wepon has an acctual dammage arc in this game . Fluxes do the same dammage at the epicenter of their expolosion as they do right at the edge as do all aoe wepons in this game.

The ROF is already one a second, how much more would increase it by? Would you be wiling to give back damage so as to maintain there dps?

An ar users are a bit thick sometimes, they never move furthef than a meter! !

3 steps to the right jump to the left everytime, watch they all do it!!

Yes I know, I would prefer to see that Idea nipped in the bud due to the fact it takes a lot of risk out, and MD users will equip the gallente shotgun pistol when released specically to fudge over anyone who dares rush an area denial weapon!!

No you are deluding yourself, if someone with a mass driver were to stand still he wouldn't stand a chance the militia ar has 3 times the dps, if you are engaging him at less than 20m this is md ideal situation, even more so if in a corridor.

Try moving backwards while shooting you may notice some people will miss you!! If the md user isnt allowed to dodge than why do ar users do it.

stop deluding yourself that your a decent fps player, because your story you can't aim, youll be getting aim assist soon and that'll just make ar users clairvoyant!

I never said it takes skil to use, it takes skil to truly master, to take it out of its comfort zone,

lol, thats funny bro have to admit, and yes I would. Increase damage nerf rof. I would have to agree with that.

Off course we all move all the time, the main difference is that all the direct weapons get less accurate the more you move, the MD doesn't.

Go check the leaderboards, I'm at 65-75th place, go check that stat vs your own and then come here and tell me if I'm decent enough.

And explain to me this: Why is it that so many of the top players in Dust can come form spending 3-4 M skillpoints on the AR to merely unlocking the MD and still dominate with it? I have yet to meet a single SKILLED player, at least that I've played with, that defends it in its current state.

When we get a fix to aiming and hit detection we'll see how things change.

This seems like the best way to balance it. The round has to fly a few meters before it explodes. The breach should stay as it is and fire in cqc.

I can't be mad if someone switches to a sidearm and kills me, if I can't kill you with my shotgun before you SMG/pistol/whatever comes out I deserve to die.

My thought is this and may I quote the author...

( So a user and enemy 5m from blast will take damage while at 6.5 only the user will take damage, higher risk, discourages spam, rewards skill, what are people's thoughts?? )

That there is is exactly what I think....the problem is spamming...and hence the reason imo it needs a rof nerf or splash damge reduction. Else ppl will just make sure there 5-6m or w/e away, and then yup you guessed it, spamville. ( reminds me of the flaylock )

BTW Devs have shown interest in putting in a minimum arming distance on Mass Drivers so they're used less in CQC.

ROF?

The damn thing shoots at 60 RPM...1 shot a second.

So after seeing threads with both sides giving pros and cons, running mass drivers since Uprising 1.0 (When I Srarted), and being killed just as often I have had found a few things.

When aim assist is returned MD will die as the "FOTM" so many believe it to be, its lack of damage in comparison to auto weaponry will be its downfall.

Sometimes the MD is a LITTLE to easy in cqc, there have been multiple times where I believe I should have been hit by my own splash but wasn't ahd is that is causing the problem where people believe the MD is OP.

So a simple fix is to increase user only splash radius, to maybe 6-7 m on standard, and 8-9m on assault.

So a user and enemy 5m from blast will take damage while at 6.5 only the user will take damage, higher risk, discourages spam, rewards skill, what are people's thoughts??

Not really used less as much as used smarter. Assaults will be worthless in CQC, and breach will dominate. All about impact damage.

a mass driver at range is weak sauce , close up there is no stopping them heavies, brologi's and the ass class melt , so just fit an AR and take them from range no brainer, or if you really feel like pissing them of put a forge round through there heads upon high ( my FOTM ) they soon get the message

Please I dont give a Monkeys about leaderboards (see what I did there) mine is low because I came out of the academy bright eyed and bushy tailed only be stomped by people with twice my health, no they dont defend it because god forbid any weapon other than ar could possibly kill them!

Why because the majority of maps and sockets involve ranges less than 20m that's why!! And yesn1.4 will show the true problems, like the fact the ar is far too effective!!

If its so easy to use, then use it, get to the very top of the leaderboard if your are as good as you believe you are, hell in that example you gave why didnt you throw a grenade? The md user obviously had as bad an aim as you, or you would have been dead! (Or are you jacked up on extenders and plates?)

So after seeing threads with both sides giving pros and cons, running mass drivers since Uprising 1.0 (When I Srarted), and being killed just as often I have had found a few things.

When aim assist is returned MD will die as the "FOTM" so many believe it to be, its lack of damage in comparison to auto weaponry will be its downfall.

Sometimes the MD is a LITTLE to easy in cqc, there have been multiple times where I believe I should have been hit by my own splash but wasn't ahd is that is causing the problem where people believe the MD is OP.

So a simple fix is to increase user only splash radius, to maybe 6-7 m on standard, and 8-9m on assault.

So a user and enemy 5m from blast will take damage while at 6.5 only the user will take damage, higher risk, discourages spam, rewards skill, what are people's thoughts??

I would gladly use the MD if it didn't feel so damn cheap.

And lets not go into semantics of what happened in that CB. I ran my usual small HP fast shield regen setup. The fact of the matter is that the MD is God mode in CQC, which should be the role of the shotty, not an area denial AOE weapon.

And do you base your oppinion on CBs or pub battles? If you can't acknowlege that the framerate drop and hit detection losses we suffer in CBs compared to pub games greatly affects the AR user but hardly the MD user at all, then we are on different planets and the point of discussing it is lost.

And I have yet to hear the answer to:

Why is it that so many good AR players can merely unlock the MD and dominate with it? That can't be done with any other weapons in the game, least not to the same extent.

So sick of scrubby players thinking they're all that just cause they can wield a f@cking noobtube.

Gave you your answer the majority of sockets create the firefights at MD 's most effective range about 10 -20m (short / mid range), secondly splash damage across tiers is largely homogenised, it's not worth going proto for splash!! This why they dominate!!

Yes I do play planetary conquest, yes I do play public, yes I do play factional warfare, yes I am aware of frame rate drops, thats not the md fault and it shouldn't be prosecuted for it!! Its still skirts around the fact that you are missing nearly 2/3 of the shots you fire if you cant match it, strafing or not, hip fire is blindingly accurate as you have proved in your own video, why dont you use that instead?

If you dont want be judged on an example you give, dont give it, your example shows your opponent also had poor aim because this firefight took at least 10-12 seconds based on your account!!

So sick of PROTO TRYHARDS thinking there all that because they hold down a trigger on automatic noob-hose!!

I was 27m away from a Exo in a Minnie Scout suit = Fastest strafe.

And he was hitting me, your arguement about Scouts being able to strafe dodge shots from 15m out has been proven wrong.

Maps don't make most firefights within 10-20m. Its the fact that most people run AR that makes most fights take place at 10-20m. I'm seeing a resurgence of scrambler rifles and TAC ARs again with people sitting back at 40+m.

do tend to take many down with me.

For me it only works if you stop moving and the reds are not running. Obviously it's bad to not move but the MD while walking is so damn inaccurate.