I for one would like to see us simply be able to upgrade our existing suits, adding slots, etc. I've been using my Raven so long, I can't imagine not using it.

I think it would be great for the marketplace if you could sell those suits. For instance, you buy a BPO Dragonfly assault. You level it up, add things to it, and sell it. The catch should be that the buyer must be a certain level to use it. Maybe not as high a level as you are to create it, but have the buyers level affect what he can do with it. Same with weapons. Even add a customization app, for colors, renaming, etc.

As for tiercide, I'm kind of in between. I see both sides, and I wish there was some happy medium there. But there's not, at least not that I can see.

I do very well on my militia character too. Thing is, can the rest of the population say the same? Can all the new players, who are struggling to understand the skill system, boast of the extensive knowledge about game mechanics/maps that we have?

My gun game is ****. I can barely keep my KDR above 1 on this guy. My KDR is below 1 on my militia character. But still I can get successful games on it. But our anecdotal evidence is not strong enough to simply prove tiercide is heading the wrong direction.

Your hypothesis is interesting. In relation to this hypothesis of "mobility > eHP", I believe tiercide delivers a system which doesn't necessarily flatten TTK. The HP gap closes, but that means there will be more focus on roles. A scout suit variant which delivers extra shield regen will be used for what I like to call 'butterfly combat', flitting around and being a nuisance to hit without going down. A scout with a movement speed bonus can catch people with charged nova knives. 2 examples of hundreds that are possible with variants, and both do not point towards a flattening of kill time.

In fact, both examples highlight the importance of mobility. Unless the implementation of variants is botched, diversity will be increased.

Although the tiercide to only dropsuits seems to be the preferred option, there is a flaw that I see there. That is, why would anyone use basic modules if their dropsuit has the capacity to fit complex? So essentially as people skill into complex modules (which require much less SP than what prototype dropsuits do currently), basic and advanced modules will be left on the shelves to collect dust. They're being tiercided without even removing them from the game and simply become redundant. Why not implement tiercide for modules also? Have only complex shield extenders, but a variant can be the shield energizers we have now. Then we can also have a variant which gives less shield HP but a resistance to a certain damage type; we can make a variant for each damage type. That's already half a dozen other variants or so to the current shield extender.

Now, make the skill Shield Extension unlock the complex shield extenders at level 1, shield energizers at level 3, and all those damage resistance variants at level 5. That's what I envision tiercide to be: as you unlock you get MORE SPECIALISED variants instead of a higher tier which is simply better overall.

Although the tiercide to only dropsuits seems to be the preferred option, there is a flaw that I see there. That is, why would anyone use basic modules if their dropsuit has the capacity to fit complex? So essentially as people skill into complex modules (which require much less SP than what prototype dropsuits do currently), basic and advanced modules will be left on the shelves to collect dust. They're being tiercided without even removing them from the game and simply become redundant. Why not implement tiercide for modules also? Have only complex shield extenders, but a variant can be the shield energizers we have now. Then we can also have a variant which gives less shield HP but a resistance to a certain damage type; we can make a variant for each damage type. That's already half a dozen other variants or so to the current shield extender.

Now, make the skill Shield Extension unlock the complex shield extenders at level 1, shield energizers at level 3, and all those damage resistance variants at level 5. That's what I envision tiercide to be: as you unlock you get MORE SPECIALISED variants instead of a higher tier which is simply better overall.

Let me quickly sum up what I said above:

Your ideal game is BF3 or CoD where everyone has the same health and there is as little progression as possible because that's "fair".

Did that, and just so we're clear I do understand that you are talking about dropsuits not about everything. Now on to the meat of the subject.



Tiercide as a general concept is cool to me, unfortunately most iterations of it are far less desirable than the general concept. I have not checked out the two linked threads yet, that's my next stop, but at this point I am not persuaded that this change is required or beneficial. For example some of the listed motives are, simply put, directly in conflict with my own testing. I have a zero SP character who runs starter fits, I test on this character regularly (usually at least one day a week) and have not encountered "an unreasonably massive disadvantage". Lets be clear here, I am a support logi, in part because my gun game is not the strongest out there, so I'm playing on a character with zero sp, in starter fits, in a role I'm mediocre at and tending to earn 500-1500 WP per game even in matches with organized corp squads running full proto.

Now I am not saying that gear and SP have no impact, but it is certainly not an impact that I feel can accurately be described as "massive". Furthermore the most painful burden placed on my zero SP character when contrasted with several of my other characters? It's not HP, or even eHP, it is mobility. That's right the speed with which I can sprint, run, drive, etc. has a drastically larger and more meaningful impact on game play than relative HP does. I understand why the free starter LAV was removed but it was also one of the harshest and most cutting nerfs to new players ability to compete that has happened since live launch. Stripping new players of that mobility creates a slower and more frustrating form of game play and even if they are buying basic LAVs to compensate those death buggies still explode if you sneeze on them wrong thus costing the new player time and ISK neither of which they can as readily afford.
Advanced players who have more SP can sprint longer, recover faster, and sprint faster than the standard players, they can also field better vehicles, possess better uplinks, and have enhanced hacking rates. There superior speed gives them superior adaptability and that has a much more significant effect on new players than does the relative HP of dropsuits.

Re: Your #2, I've had proto since the start of the live game due to open beta play and I do not run it most of the time, more than 80% of my pub matches (which are the majority of my game play) use fits that are a mix of Militia and Standard suits and mods. Even if money were no object and I could run proto all match every match I still wouldn't because using lower meta gear is better training to make my player skills more effective for those important moments where I do run proto. Simply put I'm an object lesson in how this point doesn't hold true, just because some players might "go proto or go home" doesn't mean everyone does it, I certainly don't.

Re: #3, see the first part of my post, the problem isn't HP, or eHP it is speed. Flattening TTK (time to kill) game wide would reduce diversity and would not address the core shortfall confronting low SP characters/new players.

Now I'm going to go give those links a look.

Cheers,
Cross

Sigh, old post https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75214

This combined with this would go a long way to improving the game.

However, tiercide would probably kill Aur purchases (even with your suggested modification). To counter this, CCP needs to introduce more kinds of aur items, like more types of boosters.

I would also like for them to create a new blueprint type that gives a cosmetic change but still requires me to purchase the normal suits so not all std suits have to look exactly the same.
Side Note: ^ this could also come in handy for FW. After gaining enough loyalty with a specific side, you are unlock or can purchase a recolor of other suits to match your faction. E.g. Make an Amarr suit rusty or give a Minnie suit a golden shine.

You probably didn't read the entire OP. This was already addressed.

I had posted a Proposal on how to do this and even made up some suit's (with bonuses) to help illustrate the concept.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=109111&find=unread

Lowered requirement AUR tech 3 would be a good way to make money also.

If standard class suits are tech I and specialized class suits are tech II, what are tech III?