/Facepalms

Please take a good HARD look at the Dust 514 logo located on the top-left corner of this page. Tell me. What do you see above the word "DUST 514"? Eve, right? Does the game's lore match up with Eve? Yes, right? Does the game have you play as one of the four major factions of New Eden? Yes, right? Now take a look at a number of corps around here. Take a look at my corp, Dust University, and notice how many Eve characters you see in the corp. The same goes with all the other major corps out there.

Will we have a complex market in Dust just like in Eve? Yes.
Will we be able to scam each other and run complex ponzi schemes without getting banned by CCP? We can already do that.
Did the first beta testers for this game consist mostly of Eve players who got free early access to closed-beta? Yup.
Do we have a player-run council that is soon to become just like that of the Eve Online player-run council? Yup.
Do you see extreme metagaming in Dust just like in Eve? Yup.

Case closed.

/Facepalms

Please take a good HARD look at the Dust 514 logo located on the top-left corner of this page. Tell me. What do you see above the word "DUST 514"? Eve, right? Does the game's lore match up with Eve? Yes, right? Does the game have you play as one of the four major factions of New Eden? Yes, right? Now take a look at a number of corps around here. Take a look at my corp, Dust University, and notice how many Eve characters you see in the corp. The same goes with all the other major corps out there.

Will we have a complex market in Dust just like in Eve? Yes.
Will we be able to scam each other and run complex ponzi schemes without getting banned by CCP? We can already do that.
Did the first beta testers for this game consist mostly of Eve players who got free early access to closed-beta? Yup.
Do we have a player-run council that is soon to become just like that of the Eve Online player-run council? Yup.
Do you see extreme metagaming in Dust just like in Eve? Yup.

Case closed.

honestly... the number of slots and the ability to customize cool fits is the only fun thing about this game.

I defo vote +1 on removing everything sub Proto, MLT-ADV gear sucks and is not fun to run at all.

World of Warcraft has the name WARCRAFT on it

Its not the same game.

Same universe? yes, same game? NO.

Case closed.

If i wanted to play EVE, i WOULD PLAY EVE.
Im playing DUST because its not eve... >..>

Yup, sorry for making sense and leaving you without a comeback. It happens.

Actually, you made no sense at all and you missed my point. Dust has everything about Eve coursing through its veins. Dust, according to CCP, will just be a different window looking into the same universe that Eve players are in.

Besides, CCP is the final authority on this and if they feel (maybe 5 years down the road) that maybe tieracide in order, then they will make their choice not only based on player feedback but also on the data they collected from how we use our items in the game.

Let's also not forget that it wasn't until well over 7 years after Eve Online was released that it finally underwent a tieracide. Therefore you have 5-7 years of tier-based fun to enjoy in Dust if the same pattern is followed.

Actually, I don't think YOU understand tiericide.

Not 1 plasma rifle (that's stupid)- many plasma rifles with different stats. Like how we now have vanilla, breach, tactical, and burst- only more variety.

But yes, not having any weapon be blatantly more powerful than another is the main idea.

nono, i get the point. I just feel that for a ''RPG'' type FPS, whats the point of getting SP if im not getting BETTER stuff for it?

Simple: make skills more meaningful.

What about aurum gear?

Tiericide sounds like a great model for a subscription based game... but not sure how you would convince people to monetize if there is nothing worthwhile to purchase in game.

Finally someone said something sane in these 'tiericide' theads. I get the feeling that these tiericide topics are started by 12 year olds. Wake up ppl: we have tiers because it's one of the very few things CCP can do to make money in a F2P game.

Don't get me wrong... I think it would be great. I hate the fact that prototype gear is the only gear worth using and I have to grind for weeks to unlock each prototype piece but I just don't know how you would monetize.

There are ways I'm sure. Like having each level be 5% more passive power to item x and a aurum item that is 25% flat with no skill mods etc.

Just saying... the game was built around an aurum monetization model that capitalizes on these tiers... it'll be years and year before anything can really be done.

But hey... if they keep vehicles the way they are (no tiers) then they could eventually do the same to dropsuits and weapons, its not unheard of or impossible.

Don't get me wrong... I think it would be great. I hate the fact that prototype gear is the only gear worth using and I have to grind for weeks to unlock each prototype piece but I just don't know how you would monetize.

There are ways I'm sure. Like having each level be 5% more passive power to item x and a aurum item that is 25% flat with no skill mods etc.

Just saying... the game was built around an aurum monetization model that capitalizes on these tiers... it'll be years and year before anything can really be done.

But hey... if they keep vehicles the way they are (no tiers) then they could eventually do the same to dropsuits and weapons, its not unheard of or impossible.

I have to disagree with you there, the aurum system is mainly built around sp boosters, they are by far the most important thing to spend aurum on, aurum gear takes 3rd place behind BPO's IMO. The only purpose aurum gear serves is to let you try the tier above you, once you've achieved that tier you have no reason to use that gear, beyond trying to save yourself some ISK. Tiercide would require a shift no doubt about that, but they could be replaced with vanity suits or weapons, other F2P games have successfully used that model.

Actually, I don't think YOU understand tiericide.

Not 1 plasma rifle (that's stupid)- many plasma rifles with different stats. Like how we now have vanilla, breach, tactical, and burst- only more variety.

But yes, not having any weapon be blatantly more powerful than another is the main idea.

were you living under a rock up untill now?

Nah. This is a FPS, Infantry should ALWAYS have priority over vehicles.
so no.

The fact that you can't customize your gun or any of he gear really is horrible. DUST is bad and everyone should feel bad for supporting it, I do.

Also, teircide is stupid when half of the suits aren't even in game yet.

I recently found out that some people still don't get tiercide....... That's just sad.


tiercide- The act of murdering tiers.

You get rid of any tiers in the game, or at least anything that overpowers something else over a wide scale, then make a verity of variants for those things.

ex. the T I Gallente BC's in EVE are called the Brutix, Myrmidon, and Talos. If my memory serves me right, when EVE was under the tier system, the Talos was the "PROTO" Gallente BC, Myrmidon was the "ADV.", and and the Brutix was the "STD" . And, although slightly different, just like now with dust, the Talos was the best to use. When tiercide happened, they were rebalanced, and (although imo the Myrmidon is now the best, cuz' drones), they all have their roles, one being the CQ DPS monster, one being the medium range support, and one being the Long range sniper.

Now that (hopefully) the fools that don't get it do, I will say how I think it should go down: All PROTO weapons, turrets, equipment, and frames should be deleted. After, some things should happen:

For weapons and turrets: Only have one kind of gun, and call it something neat, for example, the GEK-38 Plasma Rifle. From there, we will do a mass change to all of the weapons and turrets, making them T III equipment. What that means in simple terms is add weapon customization. Do the same for vehicle turrets. Now, add AUR variants that have prefits of the weapon modules on them, and make them to where they're similar/same as the variants as we have today. Make them cost no SP.

For suit Frames and vehicle hulls: Get rid of the ADV. and PROTO ones, and add variants that have slight changes to them, like speed, scanning, etc. then give them bonuses for their specific role, like a slight reduction to equipment, or a ROF bonus/level.

For T II frames and hulls: Same as the T I ones, but give them more of a reason to exist other than being just flat out better; a defined role. Like taking away sidearms from most Logis isn't a good idea, but making their weapons weaker, but making the equipment more efficient. ex. There should be a Logi-like T I frame. It wouldn't out-preform it in Logi roles, but if it got in a fight with a Logi frame, it would win, unless the Logi is a good fighter, or gets lucky.


For modules and equipment: Modules should stay as is (tier wise), as I see nothing wrong with them being like that. Equipment should get rid of the STD and PROTO versions, and keep the ADV versions.

Now balance for CPU/PG.


Peace, Aizen

By the sound of your point you think Dust is horrible only because there's no minor bonus option of weapon customization.

You are missing the point.
If those suits are designed correctly - and balanced so that they all really are usable - there will be no need for tiericide.

Also, if current mechanics and balance is broken, then any new stuff will be built on broken ground and therefore being broken from beginning.

I'll admit that I didn't read most of your post, so there is a chance that what you're saying makes sense, but the fact that you used the Gal battlecruisers as an example of tiericide makes me think that you don't even know what it is, and what it did for Eve.

The Talos, while being a Tier 3 BC, was neither superior or better than any Tier 1 or 2 BC from any race. All Tier 3 BCs were niche hulls introduced to fit battleship class weapons at the sacrifice of fitting tank, to make a better glass cannon used for camping; be it gate, station, or POS. Given the right situation, they were/are great hulls. To the example, the Myrm and the Brutix were both beasts in the right hands. The Myrm often overshadowed the Brutix due to it's better combat and fitting flexibility, but that still stands today, after the tiericide.

Most ship classes, even though they were divided into Tiers, were well purposed through roles. The tiers had little to do with how well the individual ships performed. The most significant class that was suffering from tiers were the battleships, as the tier 3 BS generally, but not exclusively, dominated all engagements that battleships excelled at. Frigates suffered because most frigates were useless in combat, except the high tier "combat" frigates, which still are among the best combat frigates. Now, post tiericide, there are some more frigates that are combat viable, but certainly not all.

As some people pointed out, this isn't Eve, but by using Eve as an example of why tiericide should be implemented, you need to know that all it really did for the majority of the content, is get rid of the word Tier. Hulls still have roles. You still have to train skills to use hulls more effectively, and you still have to pick the appropriate hull and fitting for the task at hand.

All that said, Dust isn't ready for tiericide in any form. Since tiers are already fleshed out and skill trees already implemented, but not all content introduced, CCP needs to stay the path until the game is fully fleshed out.

No, DUST is bad because there is no option for anything.


The whole of the game is broke. By making everything the same you are not going to fix it. Maybe we should just have the same stats on everything, that way people can just pick the suits and weapons that they think look the coolest and leave it at that. Let all your skills change your combat effectiveness and there you go, no more proto stompings.

Lastly, I didn't say Dust was ready, I said it should happen, but hope it would come soon. I would solve several problems. PROTO stomps would be non existent, more verity would spawn as people tried out other suits for different reasons, it basically solves the PROTO AV STD vehicle problem altogether. And people wouldn't need to have respecs, as everything is easier to get at entry level, but hard to master (as it should be).

TL;DR You need to read, as you would have got the point. And EVE stuff you burn you.