Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

Probably because people hate dying against stuff that's going to take months to attain themselves.

Also I suspect the majority of people who stomp pub matches with their pro to gear are running and corp/sqaud that has a stake in PC. Now I don't really know but I've heard PC generates enough ISK for some people that they can basically run proto for an eternity.

That's a little frustrating for someone like me who has to continually alternate in order to manage a decent cash-flow. (I'm way too obsessed with KDR to run militia but I have considered AFKing as a viable income.)

It's fun to make fun of people roaming in full proto squads in pubs, this game already takes less overall skill than many other shooters, playing that way is the equivalent of facerolling across your keyboard to victory.

::shrugs::

Blame the complete lack of anything even remotely resembling matchmaking and a viable, competitive map pool.

8 mil a day per district, maybe more. Some corps/ alliances have several, so they can just **** out ISK to people.

this game already takes less overall skill than many other shooters

Yeah, like AV.

(USAS-12 + Frags, or my beloved MAV, R.I.P you flying hatemail generator )

Yeah, like AV.

Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

And there you have it. This is where decent matchmaking, or tier-cide would fix a lot of angst pub matches currently generate.

My favorite idea was to create a tiered match system.

1- paid low isk
2-paid med isk
3- paid high isk
4- paid even higher (you get the point)

That essentially would force people to only bring their proto to the lvl 4 or higher matches because anything lower wouldn't be cost effective. That idea obviously will have its limitations but I don't really know them.

I simply save my proto gear for PC matches only where the edge truly matters.

I don't see the logic behind using expensive proto gear in a pub match just to have an edge for a match that means NOTHING, you get the ISK and SP regardless.

Because proto vs militia is unfair. Or maybe not idk you decide.

I simply save my proto gear for PC matches only where the edge truly matters.

I don't see the logic behind using expensive proto gear in a pub match just to have an edge for a match that means NOTHING, you get the ISK and SP regardless.

Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

because they dont know how to use teamwork and for some reason think the proto squads are the problem rather then them failing at being solo rambos

So true. I use to think you had to field proto gear because the opposing team almost definitely will. With a little practice, you can make a great profit running advanced in pubs. People Also need to squad up, as every new player tries to lone wolf like in many other FPS, because that's how they've molded the single player experience. You have to be in a squad with mics in order to play effectively, not running around alone, only to be caught by 3 or more enemies all shooting at you. I play with Aisha alot, and having even one person to roll with makes a huge difference. You both kill more and last longer, because you can divide the attention. I almost refuse to play until I've found a squad, because it's very difficult to survive alone.

On a side note, I think I've seen one person ever looking for a squad in local chat, which is where most new players Are found. If CCP forced all players on a team with no squad into existing squads before the match starts, then it may work better, but you still can't force people to play as a team unless they want to.

Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

Proto in pubs is for no skill carebears who cant keep a possitive k/d with std gear.

Proto is for PC
ADV is for FW

inb4 - jealousy / envy / other crap

I have a proto suit and proto weps, I have tanks and assault dropships, and I have over 160 mil ISK to run them, I just dont need to run proto like most scrubs in this game.

Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

Also in EVE i use my Sleip more than my Mach, such a far better ship. guess i'll just use my proto gear for the forseeable future seeing as i can afford to lose it atm :D and for those of you who either cant use it or cant afford to well, sucks to be you lol

The problem is not proto gear it's the players. People that squad up have mics and play as a team.

People that don't squad or do squad DON'T USE MICS WTF.

That's the problem CCP needs to have built in squads this random player thing doesn't.

Proto gear running teams is not the problem. It's randoms not using mics is the problem.

And there you have it. This is where decent matchmaking, or tier-cide would fix a lot of angst pub matches currently generate.

My favorite idea was to create a tiered match system.

1- paid low isk
2-paid med isk
3- paid high isk
4- paid even higher (you get the point)

That essentially would force people to only bring their proto to the lvl 4 or higher matches because anything lower wouldn't be cost effective. That idea obviously will have its limitations but I don't really know them.

Probably because people hate dying against stuff that's going to take months to attain themselves.

Also I suspect the majority of people who stomp pub matches with their pro to gear are running and corp/sqaud that has a stake in PC. Now I don't really know but I've heard PC generates enough ISK for some people that they can basically run proto for an eternity.

That's a little frustrating for someone like me who has to continually alternate in order to manage a decent cash-flow. (I'm way too obsessed with KDR to run militia but I have considered AFKing as a viable income.)

tiercide means the act of murdering tiers, so what the heavenly **** are you talking about?

You can run proto and make a steady income. Even if you do it solo. To be honest - a suit doesn't matter, a gek with proficiency leveled to 5 is OK to kill a pro suit. Just because you see a guy wearing a proto suit doesn't mean he is good.

when you can't afford something or dont have access to it the next best thing is to cry about it

Garbage play is tantamount to not being able to budget in this game. I run proto gear exclusively in every pub match I play because I am skilled enough and smart enough to minimize my clone losses. Most people can't accomplish this because their playstyle is wreckless and therefore extremely expensive. In my estimation, the jealousy this elicits is simply a projection of a player's own inadequacies.

Why is Proto just for PC and why is ADV for FW? Who made those rules up?

I have millions upon millions of ISK too. Why should I be bothered with lower tier gear clogging up my fittings? It's funny how hard you try to prove yourself by claiming you don't use proto. You must really be a hard ass.

Hey guys, I baked this cake over here and I'm NOT gonna eat it. Suck on that!

What bugs me about protobears is that they still run proto despite it being a poor way to get ISK. In pub matches, it's a lose-lose situation when someone brings out proto: the proto user doesn't profit as much as they might with cheaper gear, while the other team doesn't have fun.

I can understand using it in merc battles or PC, but using it in instant battles is just obnoxious.

Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

I'm still pretty new, and i'm still getting a grasp on pretty much every single facet of Dust. I've gone back and forth on what the actual problem is/what to do about it in regards to the Proto issue pretty much since I first started/got my first true "welcome to Dust, give me your lunch money" @ss beating. At this point I have absolutely no idea what the solution is. Now, the general problem to some is the proliferation of Proto equipment (I've come to understand the factors that passive skills play, and i'm not getting into that side of this whole discussion), which creates a general problem on the new player retention front. Here is where i'm currently at thought wise, i'll give y'all an analogy (I love analogies)-

Imagine the NFL only played one game a year. The Chicago Bears (or any NFL team, doesn't matter) love to play football. They have worked long and hard to become about the best at what they do, and they want to play football whenever possible, and they want to use every trick they have, every play, and they want to play a full contact, no holds barred, full on game of NFL football, and they deserve/have the right to do so. But there is only one game a year so the Chicago Bears travel North America the rest of the year and beat the living dog sh!t out of PeeWee League football teams (for those who aren't aware, PeeWee= children around the ages of like 5 and 7 ish, at least here in Florida). There is no contest, no chance the Bears would lose, just a bunch of grown @ss men kicking a bunch of childrens teeth in.

Now apply this tale to Dust. Chicago Bears= Proto, children= noobs. Now I have no clue as to what goes on in PC or FW, but I know that's where I want to be, that's what i'm shooting for. I know I need some sweet @ss gear (along with proven ability) to start regularly taking part in these battles. I've gotten the general sense that there is not enough PC or FW going on to keep players at the higher levels occupied, and I've heard PC and FW battles are laggy as a ***** on a ***** boat, resulting in a large amount of high level players in Instant Battles. I don't know if that's fact or not, and i'm not suggesting any changes or recommending that someone needs to do something about it, but I would imagine that if I had Proto, if I made it that high up the never ending ladder of SP, I would leave Instant Battles in the Dust (hehehe). I know vets use Instant Battles to make some cash, and that's all fine and good. But it seems like there are a bunch of people who have no intent on partaking in PC or FW, and just wanna solo/exclusively play squad Instant Battle. Again, that's al fine and good (I personally don't understand that, but to each his own). I've seen suggestions for matchmaking, tiericide, and all kinds of other stuff. But I feel like the core of the issue is "why are there so many high powered players so consistently playing in the Instant Battles?" That's not a problem I have, just a general question. Is there really nothing else going on? Am I working so damn hard for all these fancy @ss weapons and suits to do the same bullsh!t i'm doing this very second, just with I higher KDR? I've gotten frustrated as all get out on numerous occasions, but A- I do have fun with the game, can't deny it, and B- I haven't hit 2 mil SP yet, but I feel myself getting better every match, so I know once I start getting better gear (and passive skills) things will get better. I'm not dogin' on anyone for how they get personal enjoyment out of a game, but as so many have said, if you wanna hold on to enough of these new players to keep the game alive, letting them get brutalized day in and day out for how ever many months it takes before your average Dust rookie is able to start turning the tables is probably not good for the game. I feel like this issue has a much farther reaching effect than has been acknowledged. The "squad up" argument isn't relevant when talking about Proto (or even just Vet) vs Rookie, cause it should be looked at as a one on one situation. I know that's not how it happens in the game, but to truly acknowledge the argument and try and make headway with it, you have to say "in a one on one scenario, if a 10mil SP dude runs into a 1mil SP dude, what happens? What tools are available to each, and in how many different possibilities are available to each player to win that engagement?" I for one am starting to feel like the gaps are probably far more responsible for things like perceived balance issues then they have been acknowledged to be. Anyway, i'm rambling, starting to drift off topic (sorry).

I'll just make my conclusion this- I don't know how to fix any issues in the game, and i'm still not even sure I understand what the issues are, but I feel that if you do something to make the Higher Ups want to play almost exclusively in a battle system that is largely unaccessible to newer players, if you do something that gives Higher Ups somewhere to play that is largely unaccessible to newer players, I would imagine the Proto/Pubstomp issues start to die down, and maybe claims of weapon and suit balance issues start to become somewhat of a thing of the past.

Sorry for the wall of text.

DISCLAIMER: I realize my newness, please don't mistake my 2 cents for anything more than what it is.

In other games, there is no "better" gun unless it's OP. In Dust, you have guns that are clearly better. That's the problem. And no, the purpose of this game is to get lots of ISK, and own some space. in essence, get your own little empire.

The main goal of Dust 514 is to bring the New Eden Universe to veteran shooter and console players through the eyes of an immortal soldier.

Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches?
Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it?

is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno.
i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez'
in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me

I've been playing Dust for over a year now, and the core idea of Dust, and Eve in general, is all about risk and reward. You risk something valuable in hopes that your skill with it yields you a better reward. It's not supposed to be profitable for everyone to run the best gear at all times, you might as well make everything free and remove currency altogether.

This game has always been about the choice: Do I run cheap stuff and risk dying a lot? Or do I run my expensive stuff and risk loosing my hard earned money? That's what makes this game special when compared to the majority of shooters out there, risk and reward above and beyond the almighty K/D stat.