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So why all the grief for using proto?

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Spectre-M The Generals EoN. 34	Posted - 2013.08.12 06:28:00 - [31] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: I simply save my proto gear for PC matches only where the edge truly matters. I don't see the logic behind using expensive proto gear in a pub match just to have an edge for a match that means NOTHING, you get the ISK and SP regardless. So true. I use to think you had to field proto gear because the opposing team almost definitely will. With a little practice, you can make a great profit running advanced in pubs. People Also need to squad up, as every new player tries to lone wolf like in many other FPS, because that's how they've molded the single player experience. You have to be in a squad with mics in order to play effectively, not running around alone, only to be caught by 3 or more enemies all shooting at you. I play with Aisha alot, and having even one person to roll with makes a huge difference. You both kill more and last longer, because you can divide the attention. I almost refuse to play until I've found a squad, because it's very difficult to survive alone. On a side note, I think I've seen one person ever looking for a squad in local chat, which is where most new players Are found. If CCP forced all players on a team with no squad into existing squads before the match starts, then it may work better, but you still can't force people to play as a team unless they want to.
dustwaffle Gravity Prone EoN. 310	Posted - 2013.08.12 07:41:00 - [32] - Quote Jealousy/Envy/Hate I guess a lot of people compare this game to other games where everyone is largely the same, and instead of thinking of ways to overcome that hurdle, it's easier to whack out a few whines with your keyboard. For the record, I pretty much run ADV suits in pub games, just because I'm stingy. Most people that started in Chromo could probably run proto all day every match for a year non-stop, so ISK isn't really a factor.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 41	Posted - 2013.08.12 07:43:00 - [33] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches? Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it? is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno. i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez' in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me i dont think anyone debates you earn your equipment but i won't lie... when you face someone who has better gear than you.. its simply unfair... its really not your fault dude, its CCP for not sticking you with people you should be fighting with in PUB matches.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 41	Posted - 2013.08.12 07:45:00 - [34] - Quote Chances Ghost wrote: because they dont know how to use teamwork and for some reason think the proto squads are the problem rather then them failing at being solo rambos lol technically they are not failing at solo ramboing just failing at attain the equipment which takes forever to get at prototype level..
Ripcord19981 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 38	Posted - 2013.08.12 14:45:00 - [35] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: I simply save my proto gear for PC matches only where the edge truly matters. I don't see the logic behind using expensive proto gear in a pub match just to have an edge for a match that means NOTHING, you get the ISK and SP regardless. So true. I use to think you had to field proto gear because the opposing team almost definitely will. With a little practice, you can make a great profit running advanced in pubs. People Also need to squad up, as every new player tries to lone wolf like in many other FPS, because that's how they've molded the single player experience. You have to be in a squad with mics in order to play effectively, not running around alone, only to be caught by 3 or more enemies all shooting at you. I play with Aisha alot, and having even one person to roll with makes a huge difference. You both kill more and last longer, because you can divide the attention. I almost refuse to play until I've found a squad, because it's very difficult to survive alone. On a side note, I think I've seen one person ever looking for a squad in local chat, which is where most new players Are found. If CCP forced all players on a team with no squad into existing squads before the match starts, then it may work better, but you still can't force people to play as a team unless they want to. It not the only one I've asked in the local chat plenty of times.
Rage Racer DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.08.12 15:05:00 - [36] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches? Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it? is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno. i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez' in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me It is quite simple. People are effectively exploiting the non-existent matchmaking to stomp new players using their way more powerful gear and in doing so are driving new players out of the game further contributing to the problem of the already small playerbase. I have no problem if anyone wants to use their protogear, but to be honest using it non-stop at this time in the lifecycle of DUST514 where we do not have a proper matchmaking system thus worsening this games condition everytime you protostomp a new player is just irresponsible. Or maybe I'm just exaggerating.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 56	Posted - 2013.08.12 15:09:00 - [37] - Quote Proto in pubs is for no skill carebears who cant keep a possitive k/d with std gear. Proto is for PC ADV is for FW inb4 - jealousy / envy / other crap I have a proto suit and proto weps, I have tanks and assault dropships, and I have over 160 mil ISK to run them, I just dont need to run proto like most scrubs in this game.
Nirwanda Vaughns Molon Labe. League of Infamy 76	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:13:00 - [38] - Quote well nice mixed opinions there lol tbh though its still sounding like a lot of whining, yeah proto guys go into pubmatches. the match making isn't great so you go up against std/adv/pro players but as i said previously. a proto can go down against militia gear easy enough in wrong situation, there are many factors that lead to a kill, gamers skill, lag, bad timing (you just finished a firefight), sometimes no matter how skilled you are or what suit you're in you're gonna die. i'll admit i'm not making excuses. i use my proto because it helps me in matches and i think it helps even me out (as an average gamer) against the great gamers who are running std/adv stuff. If folk gave a toss about 'honour' then we'd stop using cheap kill mahcines like flaylocks, MDs and murder taxis but hey, am still getting my a** ran over dozens of times a night and being spammed by proto MD/Flays so when all you cheap killers quit it then i'll think about tucking away my proto gear in pub matches
Funkmaster Whale 0uter.Heaven EoN. 221	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:23:00 - [39] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Proto in pubs is for no skill carebears who cant keep a possitive k/d with std gear. Proto is for PC ADV is for FW inb4 - jealousy / envy / other crap I have a proto suit and proto weps, I have tanks and assault dropships, and I have over 160 mil ISK to run them, I just dont need to run proto like most scrubs in this game. Why is Proto just for PC and why is ADV for FW? Who made those rules up? I have millions upon millions of ISK too. Why should I be bothered with lower tier gear clogging up my fittings? It's funny how hard you try to prove yourself by claiming you don't use proto. You must really be a hard ass. Hey guys, I baked this cake over here and I'm NOT gonna eat it. Suck on that!
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 35	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:23:00 - [40] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just wondering why there is such a big deal about players using proto in pub matches? Surely the idea of the game is to grind skills, get proto gear and use it? is it jealously from newbies who cant use it? vets who cant afford to use it? i dunno. i have a ton of isk and the skills available. i've spent good money on boosters both passive and active and i've grinded week in week out since january to get into my proto gear and i'm sure others have so why is it the player base seem to have the need of shunning it to appear 'da leetestez' in any other FPS game you work up the ranks to unlock the better guns and use them, i don't go getting hate mail on BF3 cos i'm using my L85A2. Just seems pretty dumb to me my only beef is that it has made the game very new player unfriendly and is probably the reason player counts are less than stella.

Mamertine Son R.E.B.E.L.S 94	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:34:00 - [41] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Also in EVE i use my Sleip more than my Mach, such a far better ship. guess i'll just use my proto gear for the forseeable future seeing as i can afford to lose it atm :D and for those of you who either cant use it or cant afford to well, sucks to be you lol that's exactly the kind of sentiment that's angering a lot of new players, and some mid aged one's. The proto spam is really more of a problem of the supreme ISK buildup some players can manage. Which is fine because if I had billions of ISK I'd run proto all day too. The game shouldn't have to account for players to follow some boshido honor code, if that were the case we'd all line up in a field and take turns firing at each other. The main reason I even touch my proto is so that I can have fun because I have fun when I kill a lot of stuff. I imagine that's what a lot of players are thinking so when they can't kill a lot of stuff they get frustrated.
lrian Locust Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:43:00 - [42] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: The problem is not proto gear it's the players. People that squad up have mics and play as a team. People that don't squad or do squad DON'T USE MICS WTF. That's the problem CCP needs to have built in squads this random player thing doesn't. Proto gear running teams is not the problem. It's randoms not using mics is the problem. I assume this is only going to get worse in the next update, when blips on TACnet aren't shared across the team anymore. Casual, non-squad players will be blinder than ever. More protostomping to come!
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 158	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:46:00 - [43] - Quote it's because CCP forgot to add the most important stat to the battle end screen: ISK lost vs ISK destoyed. But then again, they seem to have no idea what there marketing department is putting in all those fancy trailers anyway.
miahus SyNergy Gaming EoN. 90	Posted - 2013.08.12 19:54:00 - [44] - Quote The main problem with proto pub stomping is that it discourages new academy graduates from enjoying the game and in many cases it makes them leave the game.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3092	Posted - 2013.08.12 20:40:00 - [45] - Quote Is there a problem with people running their best gear in instant matches? In of itself I would say no, sometimes it's fun to use your best **** for the sake of it. Is there a problem when said best gear gives you a huge EHP AND DPS advantage? Yes there is I'm not fool enough to expect an end to pub stomping, whatever happens in the game it's always going to be there, no point trying to eradicate it, it'll always happen. What needs to be worked on is the ridiculous state the gear system is in. Right now the sheer numbers (slot and stats wise) that proto provides give them a huge advantage, it's not one that's impossible to overcome but it is significant, the kind of significant that you don't want to see in a FPS. Beyond the ISK cost there is absolutely no downside to fielding proto gear, and as the game merges more with EVE and PC lasts longer in the FarmVille state that it is (which, I bet you, will always be happening to some degree, regardless of what CCP does) the ISK cost will become a smaller and smaller factor. If we look at the suit types we see the kind of variety that tiercide wants to encourage, heavies can tank more but as a consequence are slower, they become more suited to static defence or vehicle deployments, the scouts are faster than any other infantry, good for hanging around the outskirts of fights, chasing down snipers, back hacking etc, but they suffer in terms of DPS and EHP making them less effective in firefights, the logistics has more equipment slots, it's the suit best suited for the support roles, keeping allies in the fight, it's drawback is... Well I dunno, it needs work. The assault is the frontline infantry suit, it's a decent all rounder, it can't do any of the others roles as well as they can but it can make a decent job of them. Proto throws that out of balance, we see logi's and assaults that can tank more than heavies, we see these same suits get huge DPS's as well, the disadvantages that both heavy and light frame suits have to keep their advantages in Check keep them from being as useful as a medium frame suit, they become less relevant. Tiered gear in its current form is a blight upon this game, it's not a system that works well in FPS's, you "elitist" lot can complain however you want or spout all kind of BS about other FPS games out there and the casuals who play them, but there is one very simple fact, they are successful, dust is not. We need casual players to bulk up the player base, to provide CCP an income stream for this game, to give them incentive to keep working. There is no point in dust being different if its dead, bringing it closer in line with the other FPS's out there on the market, namely in putting players on a more level playing field EHP and DPS wise would do a lot to improve new player retention, what's more appealing? A game where proto is the only answer and you require months of being stomped to get there? Or a game where suit and fitting choices means that every player can have a niche role and the time where you can become useful and have an effect on the battlefield is significantly reduced? Tl;dr pub stomping will always happen can't stop it, but the current state of proto gear is killing dust and needs to change.
HYENAKILLER X TEAM SHINOBI 164	Posted - 2013.08.12 21:30:00 - [46] - Quote Gotta bring your best every day. lav,hav,fg,flp,md,dropship are not peoples best. They are lol components to a game that serious players must endure
Aizen Intiki Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack 406	Posted - 2013.08.12 21:37:00 - [47] - Quote Mamertine Son wrote: Aizen Intiki wrote: Mamertine Son wrote: ... That's a little frustrating for someone like me who has to continually alternate in order to manage a decent cash-flow. (I'm way too obsessed with KDR to run militia but I have considered AFKing as a viable income.) 8 mil a day per district, maybe more. Some corps/ alliances have several, so they can just ** out ISK to people. And there you have it. This is where decent matchmaking, or tier-cide would fix a lot of angst pub matches currently generate. My favorite idea was to create a tiered match system. 1- paid low isk 2-paid med isk 3- paid high isk 4- paid even higher (you get the point) That essentially would force people to only bring their proto to the lvl 4 or higher matches because anything lower wouldn't be cost effective. That idea obviously will have its limitations but I don't really know them. tiercide means the act of murdering tiers, so what the heavenly ** are you talking about?
Mamertine Son R.E.B.E.L.S 95	Posted - 2013.08.12 21:46:00 - [48] - Quote proto gear makes me vote for tier-cide.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 238	Posted - 2013.08.12 21:51:00 - [49] - Quote Mamertine Son wrote: Probably because people hate dying against stuff that's going to take months to attain themselves. Also I suspect the majority of people who stomp pub matches with their pro to gear are running and corp/sqaud that has a stake in PC. Now I don't really know but I've heard PC generates enough ISK for some people that they can basically run proto for an eternity. That's a little frustrating for someone like me who has to continually alternate in order to manage a decent cash-flow. (I'm way too obsessed with KDR to run militia but I have considered AFKing as a viable income.) You can run proto and make a steady income. Even if you do it solo. To be honest - a suit doesn't matter, a gek with proficiency leveled to 5 is OK to kill a pro suit. Just because you see a guy wearing a proto suit doesn't mean he is good.
Mamertine Son R.E.B.E.L.S 95	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:03:00 - [50] - Quote Aizen Intiki wrote: Mamertine Son wrote: My favorite idea was to create a tiered match system. 1- paid low isk 2-paid med isk 3- paid high isk 4- paid even higher (you get the point) That essentially would force people to only bring their proto to the lvl 4 or higher matches because anything lower wouldn't be cost effective. That idea obviously will have its limitations but I don't really know them. tiercide means the act of murdering tiers, so what the heavenly ** are you talking about? It was an idea I saw in the feedback/requests thread, I wanted to link it here but I couldn't find it and don't really want to invest time digging for it. Anyway, if I confused you because I mentioned the word tier-cide a line above this idea, I apologize. The two aren't related. The request thread was talking about revamping the entire joining match system, that is to say, instead of joining skirmish, ambush, dom, you would join one of a few leveled matches that define an ISK range payout after the match. tiercide, as you probably already know, is all about demolishing the skill tree and I only mentioned it as an off hand comment about fixes people have suggested for limiting proto-stomping frustration. Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:** You can run proto and make a steady income. Even if you do it solo. To be honest - a suit doesn't matter, a gek with proficiency leveled to 5 is OK to kill a pro suit. Just because you see a guy wearing a proto suit doesn't mean he is good. Yeah and knowing that people do manage to kill protos with their GEK's and adv assault suits still doesn't stop me from experiencing existential butt hurt every time a proto [insert thing] slaps me across the face especially when I pull out my own GEK and still can't kill him. Also, I make, on average 200k per match and probably die 3 or four times (when I do really well). I think my proto is 125k so unless I have a epicly good game, which happens, I'm generally going to come out red in the match.

SirManBoy Molon Labe. League of Infamy 150	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:23:00 - [51] - Quote Garbage play is tantamount to not being able to budget in this game. I run proto gear exclusively in every pub match I play because I am skilled enough and smart enough to minimize my clone losses. Most people can't accomplish this because their playstyle is wreckless and therefore extremely expensive. In my estimation, the jealousy this elicits is simply a projection of a player's own inadequacies.
TEBOW BAGGINS Rebel Raiders Inc. 871	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:26:00 - [52] - Quote when you can't afford something or dont have access to it the next best thing is to cry about it
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders 504	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:29:00 - [53] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: when you can't afford something or dont have access to it the next best thing is to cry about it https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1134482#post1134482
BGoat The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 24	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:33:00 - [54] - Quote Why would I NOT run Proto-gear in Pub matches? I don't participate in PC, my corp doesn't participate in PC (so they don't need ISK donations to buy clone packs) and I don't need to buy tanks, lavs or derpships since I don't use vehicles. Running lower-tier gear to make more ISK doesn't make sense for me, as I'm already sitting on 110 million ISK and I still make money/break even in the long run with my 120k ISK fitting. So I spent 5 months or so grinding SP to get into this Proto-gear and now I'm supposed to keep it in the closet for a special occasion? No thanks. I'm not the reason this game is broken and I won't be shamed for using the gear that I earned. If you want to give CCP grief for not establishing a balanced matchmaking system or for not setting the ISK price of Proto-gear high enough, that's fine, just don't lay it on me or any other player that chooses to play the game the way they see fit.
Taeryn Frost Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 36	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:36:00 - [55] - Quote I see a lot of people complaining about new players. I'm only a few months old and remember getting ruffled up by everything from falling in pits of acid to murder taxi's and full squads of brawlers steam rolling my team. I died...a lot, then I got smarter. I learned not to run around solo. I learned that there's always a guy coming up from behind to knife or shotgun you so check your six often. I learned if you stand still, ever, a sniper or forge gun or Tac AR will kill you. My point is, new players are going to get killed gruesomely period. Does proto suit = pubstomp? I don't think so. All you guys who say you never run proto in pubs must be pretty effective without it. Or are you going even with all the new players? Whether its a proto suit or advanced suit/gear I'm pretty sure they're still gonna feel like they've been dropped off a cliff. Once again, let's pray for matchmaking.
TEBOW BAGGINS Rebel Raiders Inc. 871	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:41:00 - [56] - Quote we requested many times that they just make a frontline default suit only no vehicle match so all the whiners can have their "fair" play
Mamertine Son R.E.B.E.L.S 95	Posted - 2013.08.12 22:57:00 - [57] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: Garbage play is tantamount to not being able to budget in this game. I run proto gear exclusively in every pub match I play because I am skilled enough and smart enough to minimize my clone losses. Most people can't accomplish this because their playstyle is wreckless and therefore extremely expensive. In my estimation, the jealousy this elicits is simply a projection of a player's own inadequacies. Congratulations, your natural FPS skill allows you to effectively play in proto and still earn ISK, mine does not. I play in ADV gear and have just finished earning 7mil. In BF3 I run decent stats, 15-4 on a good day, 9-12 (sometimes worse on a bad) but losing isn't really a problem because it has no impact other than a drop in KDR. I consider myself a mid level FPS player and that's not going to change. Some people will always be better than others at FPS and there simply is no avenue to raise a person's skill any higher. If DUST wants to cater to high level players and further augment their power with items that far out-weight their lower variants that's fine. I'll play a different shooter, one that doesn't make me work as hard because when I come home from work all I want to do is relax and have a little fun. I'm just recommending that DUST give the majority of the player base some slack because for me, a half decent FPS player who still runs with guys in a squad that think shooting the MCC will do them any good, dying 18 times in a match is neither relaxing nor fun. The game needs to be a little less punishing to players who are either just learning the game's mechanics or who are only so good at shooters to begin with and CCP wouldn't even have to sacrifice the complexity of the game to do it
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 228	Posted - 2013.08.12 23:01:00 - [58] - Quote haters gonna hate
TEBOW BAGGINS Rebel Raiders Inc. 871	Posted - 2013.08.12 23:03:00 - [59] - Quote ^^^ yea that's why the community did a collective /facepalm when CCP lowered the academy to 400wp
EuroTraining Capital Acquisitions LLC 0	Posted - 2013.08.12 23:11:00 - [60] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Why is Proto just for PC and why is ADV for FW? Who made those rules up? I have millions upon millions of ISK too. Why should I be bothered with lower tier gear clogging up my fittings? It's funny how hard you try to prove yourself by claiming you don't use proto. You must really be a hard ass. Hey guys, I baked this cake over here and I'm NOT gonna eat it. Suck on that! Eating that cake will only make you fat and slow. And if you are out shape you will die. If you don't challenge your self, this game will get dull and boring. Keep running your proto gear in pubs and i will run my starter suits denying you fair and challenging game.



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