now I believe you are pushing it. We have agreed in 'alliance' members helping each other in such matches, and its already stated that having '1 or 2' members not officially affiliated with a corp to participate.

obviously 1 or 2 could stretch to 3, perhaps 4 in a rare instance, but if you have to rely on others all the time due to the fact you do not have 16 active members in your corp, then that corp would need to be reevaluated in regard to its membership.

now here's the twist... Say corp A, although not officially in an 'alliance' has close ties with corp B.

corp A has matches, and corp B is always assisting in those matches.

I don't see an issue with this, especially when corp B holds no land anywhere.. so basically the land of Corp A is in reality land for both Corp A AND Corp B

And this is interesting because I don't think everyone knows that you should have to field 16 from your own personal corp on PFC. If you HAVE to use 1-4 alliance members on OCCASION, then that's okay. If you have to field them more than on occasion, there might be a problem.

Is that what you're saying?

I think that's the problem SoTa. I know that Se\7eN will only field our own members for a PFC battle.

But I think people--maybe just me--are struggling with these "alliances." If the Team Players' district on PFC gets attacked, can they only bring TPs? What if they have to bring a couple RND to fill out the 16?

The thought right now is that it's okay to bring a couple alliance members to fill out the 16, but--from what Cubs just said--it shouldn't happen often. I think this is new information for some people.

Before you launch the attack you should send word to the CEO and wait for a response of agreement. Not all corps are ready all the time, and PFC is a training ground to give weaker corps a chance to play real games and get the experience which often means they don't have a large pool of players to pull from - which is why the mail is important.

Once accepted it's up to both sides to fill slots - if they can't and it happens often they'll be removed from PFC and the spot will be given to a more deserving corp. It's not a perfect system - but it's designed for PC ready corps - and PC ready means you'll need to be prepared almost all day to fight.

If the argument is, "In the real PC you can use ringers and alliance mates though!" Then go out into PC and stay away from PFC. Anyone can bring in A team ringers to make your corp seem better then it is - and that degrades the point of PFC.

If you send word to the other corp and say, "we'll have to bring in a few ringers." and they accept or you reply and say the same thing and they accept - then it's a no issue. But refrain from using Leaderboard ringers or players who are already a part of an A team.

This was all explained somewhere - but the thread is lost in space lol

I'm not pushing anything, Cubs. It's a simple question that was brought up on another thread. i'm not buying or selling.

Truth be told, there are ways around everything. Independents could become part of one giant alliance (it's just a little label under your corp name) without it actually being an alliance. Then they would fit the description.

So, that premise led me to ask the simple question to get everyone's thoughts. As you stated, the main purpose of PFC is to have good fights. The secondary purpose is to train corps, in my opinion.

Just playing Devil's advocate, but I think they're valid questions.

Before you launch the attack you should send word to the CEO and wait for a response of agreement. Not all corps are ready all the time, and PFC is a training ground to give weaker corps a chance to play real games and get the experience which often means they don't have a large pool of players to pull from - which is why the mail is important.

Once accepted it's up to both sides to fill slots - if they can't and it happens often they'll be removed from PFC and the spot will be given to a more deserving corp. It's not a perfect system - but it's designed for PC ready corps - and PC ready means you'll need to be prepared almost all day to fight.

If the argument is, "In the real PC you can use ringers and alliance mates though!" Then go out into PC and stay away from PFC. Anyone can bring in A team ringers to make your corp seem better then it is - and that degrades the point of PFC.

If you send word to the other corp and say, "we'll have to bring in a few ringers." and they accept or you reply and say the same thing and they accept - then it's a no issue. But refrain from using Leaderboard ringers or players who are already a part of an A team.


This was all explained somewhere - but the thread is lost in space lol

But I think people--maybe just me--are struggling with these "alliances." If the Team Players' district on PFC gets attacked, can they only bring TPs? What if they have to bring a couple RND to fill out the 16?

In order to open up wider access to PFC maybe what is needed is a new rule to allow at most 1 PFC district for each timezone an alliance occupies. This would mean at most 4 districts to an alliance on PFC to cover NA, EU, AU, and Asia TZ.

This would greatly increase the variety in the presence on PFC and ensure one alliance doesn't hold too much control over the neutral zone. Each alliance could then choose their most active corp in each timezone to maintain their set PFC timezone district.

In order to open up wider access to PFC maybe what is needed is a new rule to allow at most 1 PFC district for each timezone an alliance occupies. This would mean at most 4 districts to an alliance on PFC to cover NA, EU, AU, and Asia TZ.

This would greatly increase the variety in the presence on PFC and ensure one alliance doesn't hold too much control over the neutral zone. Each alliance could then choose their most active corp in each timezone to maintain their set PFC timezone district.

Before you launch the attack you should send word to the CEO and wait for a response of agreement. Not all corps are ready all the time, and PFC is a training ground to give weaker corps a chance to play real games and get the experience which often means they don't have a large pool of players to pull from - which is why the mail is important.

Once accepted it's up to both sides to fill slots - if they can't and it happens often they'll be removed from PFC and the spot will be given to a more deserving corp. It's not a perfect system - but it's designed for PC ready corps - and PC ready means you'll need to be prepared almost all day to fight.

If the argument is, "In the real PC you can use ringers and alliance mates though!" Then go out into PC and stay away from PFC. Anyone can bring in A team ringers to make your corp seem better then it is - and that degrades the point of PFC.

If you send word to the other corp and say, "we'll have to bring in a few ringers." and they accept or you reply and say the same thing and they accept - then it's a no issue. But refrain from using Leaderboard ringers or players who are already a part of an A team.

This was all explained somewhere - but the thread is lost in space lol

I think that's the problem SoTa. I know that Se\7eN will only field our own members for a PFC battle.

But I think people--maybe just me--are struggling with these "alliances." If the Team Players' district on PFC gets attacked, can they only bring TPs? What if they have to bring a couple RND to fill out the 16?

The thought right now is that it's okay to bring a couple alliance members to fill out the 16, but--from what Cubs just said--it shouldn't happen often. I think this is new information for some people.

As SoTah pointed out, I recall PFC actually being consensual, though we've been constantly and continually attacked non-consensually on PFC, so we assumed they threw that out the window.

But given that it's PFC, a lot of times, if you talk to the opposing corp ahead of time, if you show up short, like with 12, they'll bring 12 as well.

SoTa, great points. And I agree with you. We're fine with other teams bringing in enough guys to field 16 because the main purpose is to have good battles, but it's good to get the "okay" before the battle actually happens. But your thoughts are contradictory to what has been decided--or what I thought had been decided--where a corp can field a team of 16 on PFC made up of all alliance members; it doesn't matter if they're part of the corp that owns the district or not.

I didn't want to muddy the waters, but I initially wanted to know how this rule applies to Independents helping each other. There are numerous Independents that want to do battles on PFC, but they might not be able to field a full 16. They're not part of an alliance. So, could they grab people from the Idependent Corporations Network (ICN) channel to help?

According to the stated rules, this would not be okay since the Independents are not part of an official alliance.

Disagree. I'd rather see major corps already well beyond needing a PFC district move off PFC. This would include the Internal Error and Nyan San districts as well as SyNergy's, Red Star's (perhaps changed to red star jr. if anything), and of course our own. This translates as an attempt at undermining EoN's presence on PFC solely.

This would greatly increase the variety on PFC, and not single out one alliance.

Which corps are using alliance ringers? Which corps are attacking at random? These are the things that need to be stomped on and a message to the CEO explaining that's not how it should be so that it's fairer to all the small corps involved.

I'd be more then happy to send my boys into PFC - and I'm sure TP would too - to smash out corps who think the point of it is simply to fight. PFC's point isn't just 'good battles' it was to give lesser experience corps a chance to learn. A safe haven runned by the larger alliances so one day they can leave PFC and branch out. Skill is a huge issue currently - and everyone only wants to use A teamers making it hard to bring up that skill.

But like I said - if it's agreed upon ringers are fine then it's a no issue.

ChicagoCubs - you seem to be the fore-front to running this. How about write up some PFC rules so it can simply be linked and highlighted when corps start polluting the idea?

Read the beginning of this thread :)

Which corps are using alliance ringers? Which corps are attacking at random? These are the things that need to be stomped on and a message to the CEO explaining that's not how it should be so that it's fairer to all the small corps involved.

IE loves there PFC district - all our new recruits are thrown into it as often as we can set up a match. :3

Maybe we can allow alliance ringers - but it's seems unfair to indie corps.

Forget the language of alliance and corp meaning the same thing. A corp is just those people with the tag under their name on the left of this post.

So, plainly state, is it okay for a corp to bring in alliance members to field a PFC match? It doesn't matter how many. Is it okay for them to do this?

The difference is, an actual alliance has a command structure and a unified behavior. It's not just a pile of random corps shoved together. An alliance fights as one, so it practices as one on fight club. But there's no obligation for ringers to fight with your corp, so why would you practice with them?



This would be a huge help. Our EU faction is finding it hard to find districts to fight with in their own time zone. If they could have a PFC district too, everyone in the alliance would be able to benefit from PFC, whereas they can't right now.

Disagree. I'd rather see major corps already well beyond needing a PFC district move off PFC. This would include the Internal Error and Nyan San districts as well as SyNergy's, Red Star's (perhaps changed to red star jr. if anything), and of course our own. This translates as an attempt at undermining EoN's presence on PFC solely.

This would greatly increase the variety on PFC, and not single out one alliance.

You could just attack another district during an appropriately set EU timer. GAC, Nyan San, WTF, SI, they all have one. Furthermore if you know another corp on PFC that has an EU division you could get in touch with them and change your timer for the fight to accomodate your players.

according to cubs rules - yes.