7. no recoil

The AR doesn't use bullets but uses plasma and turns it into a lethal bolt of... well, plasma
there wouldn't be any recoil

Just want to point something out

the AR doesn't use bullets but uses plasma and turns it into a lethal bolt of... well, plasma
there wouldn't be any recoil

I agree with everything else though

AR = 425 dps
20gj blaster turret = 357.125
80gj blater turret = 750.05
crd-9 Assault scrambler rifle (advanced level) = 444.717
HMG = 533.33
MD = 225 direct 115 splash (one round a second, lol)
Sniper rifle = 158.3

1. has the fastest reload speed in the game (except for scrambler pistols and flaylocks) <-- Scrambler rifle is the fastest
2. never overheats <-- Balacs overheats after 62 shots
3. has a 60 round clip, each with bullets that do 34+ damage <-- Scrambler rifle has a 72 round clip with a shot that does 45.38 damage against shields, without damage mods and not including proficiency skills

4. the militia does 425 dps w/o damage mods <-- scramble rifle has a DPS of 444.717 not including % efficiency
5. does 110% to shield and 100% to armor <-- 110/90
6. has negligible dispersion <-- If you fire your gun in bursts
7. no recoil <-- has recoil with sustained fire, mitigated by firing in bursts
8. can be fit on any suit <-- So can every other gun except the heavy weapons
9. out ranges everygun except snipers <-- Correct
10. has extremely accurate hip fire <--- So does the scrambler rifle
11. has the most blue prints of any gun in the game (costs 0 isk and is more effective than proto weaponry thats not AR) <-- Depends what your comparing it to, although blueprints are always militia so this really doesn't make them OP per say.

12. the militia variant can kill a heavy in 2.38 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 sheild and armor) <-- If the heavy is standing still and not facing the person, because an HMG can kill a assault suit a lot faster, that is if the assault suit wasn't strafing all over the place, but that is a gameplay issue not a AR issue.

13. the milita variant can kill a scout in 0.71 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 shield and armor) <-- Scouts are UP

1. moves only marginaly slower than a scout <-- Which suit, a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? Because the speed difference is almost 20% with the Gallente suits
2. can tank ehp rivaling heavies <-- Heavies are UP in the EHP department
3. can use equipment (making it a viable option over the logi suit) <-- Only when all the assaults are working together and synchronizing their equipment they can completely weed out a logistics suit since they are more of a burden than an asset in PC.
4. is extremely mobile <--- Again which suit a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit?
5. has the hit box only marginally larger than a scout
6. has a turn speed thats just as fast a s ascout and 4x as fast as a heavy <-- After 1.4 this will be true, speed difference is highly exaggerated though.

Just want to point something out

the AR doesn't use bullets but uses plasma and turns it into a lethal bolt of... well, plasma
there wouldn't be any recoil

I agree with everything else though

Hero,

valid points

its unstoppable...lol

Great info by the way but did you notice that the HMG does more damage? Or that that AR does have kick during extended bursts while the assault scrambler rifle does not (though it does still have a very small cone of dispersion).

What about actual reload speed numbers. I believe the scrambler beats it there as do almost all the side arms based upon my in game testing experience with all these weapons though I could be wrong.
Your statement that the BPO varients of the AR are more effective than any non-AR proto weapon are also patently false.
1) Given elevation or at less than 30m an advanced MD will ruin even a skilled AR user with an equivalent or better AR. If this is combined with fluxes it is an even more dramatic win for the MD user.

2) Against shield tankers the scrambler rifle is vastly more useful (Have you tried them? They are great!)

3) Only heavy weapons can't be fit on any suit so I don't see the point of #8

4) They do not actually out range any weapon other than sniper rifles. I'd like you to look at the Dev Blog for proof about this one. The scrambler wins again! And the TAR, which you rightly point out still has extremely long range, is actually rather hard to kill with thanks to its perfectly low rate of fire. The TAR is a very situationally usefull weapon right now.

5) How long would it take a heavy to kill an AR user assuming every round hits and assuming the person is in a standard assault suit? I'm guessing it is a bit longer than it takes to kill a heavy with an AR...am I right?

6) How long does it take a scout to kill an AR user with a shotgun, once again assuming every shot actually hits and that the AR user in question is in assault gear. From experience I can tell you that a scout can one shot an assault suit if hit detection is working.

1. has the fastest reload speed in the game (except for scrambler pistols and flaylocks) <--AR reload cancels faster than the scrambler so it is the fastest.
2. never overheats <-- Balacs is a proto level officer gun. no overheat damage is taken, and overheat recovery is instantaneous
3. has a 60 round clip, each with bullets that do 34+ damage <-- Scrambler rifle has a 48 round clip with a shot that does 78 damage against shields, without damage mods and not including proficiency skills. but is a single fire weapon with less range than an AR

4. the militia does 425 dps w/o damage mods <--Assault scramble rifle has a DPS of 444.717 not including % efficiency. again this is a LVL 4 advanced gun comparaed to a milita rilfe bro
5. does 110% to shield and 100% to armor <-- 110/90 ..oops my bad. still negligible difference considering the high dps.
6. has negligible dispersion <-- even sustained fire has no recoil up unitl your 45th round and past that it is still low recoil
7. no recoil <-- dispersion is nonexistent up until your 50th round fired when sustained.
8. can be fit on any suit <--this is with reference to CPU/PG requirements which are quite forgiving.
9. out ranges everygun except snipers <-- Correct
10. has extremely accurate hip fire <--- scrambler rifle is a single fire weapon. AR is full auto, save the assault scrmabler but again its an ADV lvl4 weapon compared to a milita AR
11. has the most blue prints of any gun in the game (costs 0 isk and is more effective than proto weaponry thats not AR) <-- BPOs come in STD and militia. but having a free gun that does more DPS than proto weaponry, and beats tank turrets in DPS is kinda OP. BPO isnt op, but the gun needs fixing.

12. the militia variant can kill a heavy in 2.38 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 sheild and armor) <-- due to the heavies large hit box moving or standing still yeilds the same result unless the AR guy has no aim. an HMG can only kill a assault suit a lot faster when the AR guy is 3-4m infront of him and not moving otherwise you dead using a Heavy suit verse an AR.

13. the milita variant can kill a scout in 0.71 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 shield and armor) <-- Scouts are UP

1. moves only marginaly slower than a scout <-- Which suit, a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? Because the speed difference is almost 20% with the Gallente suits. amaro tanking is broke, thats another issue
2. can tank ehp rivaling heavies <-- Heavies are UP in the EHP department
3. can use equipment (making it a viable option over the logi suit) <-- Only when all the assaults are working together and synchronizing their equipment they can completely weed out a logistics suit since they are more of a burden than an asset in PC. again making Logis pointless
4. is extremely mobile <--- Again which suit a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? armor is UP
5. has the hit box only marginally larger than a scout >> true
6. has a turn speed thats just as fast a s ascout and 4x as fast as a heavy <-- After 1.4 this will be true, speed difference is highly exaggerated though.

On the recoil and dispersion we are so many years ahead in time so really no gun should have any recoil by now specially since most of our guns aren't even firing projectiles. In our modern time we many guns that have little to no recoil, and very tight dispersion that is barely noticeable except in very long ranges. Of course guns also only take 1 shot to kill but that's another point.

What do you use D legendary?

I don't think ARs are OP. I think everything else is UP and either they need to be BUFFed or ARs nerfed its



^^if thats the case my HMG should have perfect accuracy and zero disperion.

Like I said in other threads and my own thread on the subject, the current Gallente AR just needs a faster dispersion increase rate in order to require it to be fired in long bursts to stay accurate.

As well - and I'm not surprised at this, since this is CCP's first shooter - there is another issue.

The dispersion rate resets the moment your release the trigger. With the way the DS3 triggers work, this means that you can quickly release just enough pressure and then depress the trigger again to allow you to burn through an entire magazine while remaining completely accurate.

This is similar to how pulsing your trigger rapidly in Halo 3 would result in winning any AR v AR battle against someone who just held the trigger down.

The dispersion rate needs to have some kind of time-based falloff such that you can't feather the trigger to stay accurate without slowing your rate of fire.

still i have stated my case. The evidence is irrefutible. people say its used because its the standard. but the standard wouldn't account for more kills than anything else. gattling guns killed more people than rifles in WWI, bombs killed more people in ARs in WWII. ARs are important, but not the most effective means to an end

Good write up, but there's one thing that even the devs overlooked:

i dont see the ar being op in any way..its ineffect at range well the rapid fire one is any ways u rnt going to hit much...


its goood at close to mid range and the duvolles some so op because of the damage mods that playerrs love putting on them...

then we have the assualt suits have more hp than heavies problem...

Thanks for putting the quote here! Was about to do it myself.

I imagine the AR would seem like it had no balance issues at all if it weren't for the ability to do exactly what I described in my post to perfect effect.

Compare a GEK to the Advanced Scrambler rifle.
They are near an exact match DPS wise.

They both barely rise in DPS between the levels.
Obvious bias is obvious.

ScR overheats.

Assault Scrambler rifle.
He used Assault in his example.

Assault variant takes a clip and a half to overheat, and even more if it's a Amarr assault.
It might as well not be there.

actually it requires ZERO skill and SP... mitlia BPO, toxin, DREN, recuter AR....

all with 425 dps

all of which can kill a heavy a speced out heavy in 2.3 seconds or less and a scout in .70 seconds or less


MD never was OP, isnt OP and never will be OP. ARs are OP

Good write up, but there's one thing that even the devs overlooked:

Personally I do not care for d legendary.
He suggested giving HMG's the same damage as AR's, and also reducing dispersion, basically making any weapon besides the HMG pointless

So yeah, he's not a balancing master.
He couldn't even get his facts right.

Think of it this way: Remember the old T-II heavies we had in Chrome that were much faster and had front loaded shields? Let's say that was a placeholder for the Minmatar heavy. With the current state the HMG is in right now, it'd be horrible for a mobile suit like that in terms of leading a charge into CQC areas over point defense. The HMG is going to need some work, maybe not in damage/range/dispersion, but in suppression to make it better at crowd control so it's more versatile in multiple situations instead of simple point defense.

I agree.
However, his suggestion of giving every bullet 34 damage is as ridiculous as it gets, and why I don't take any of his posts seriously balance wise.
I think HMG bullets slowing you down is the answer.

Mobius Kaethis is amazing and always correct. I'll never doubt or contradict anything he says.

Hero I'm sorry but your are still wrong. Your still not accounting for damage versus shields vs armor. Additionally saying that canceling weapon reload speed is an important factor in making a weapon better than another is silly.

I've said it before and I'll say it a million times. Your comparing specialist weapons to a generalist weapon. The AR functions well in every area but in specific areas the other weapons really out shine it. Sure the AR can kill a shot gun scout from far away but a laser can do it better and a shotgun will ruin an AR user in CQC, just as an example. If you think the game should not have a generalist weapon that is an entirely different argument but saying a weapon is OP simply because it works well in most situations as opposed to great in specific ones is failing to see the larger picture.

Hero I'm sorry but your are still wrong. Your still not accounting for damage versus shields vs armor. Additionally saying that canceling weapon reload speed is an important factor in making a weapon better than another is silly.

I've said it before and I'll say it a million times. Your comparing specialist weapons to a generalist weapon. The AR functions well in every area but in specific areas the other weapons really out shine it. Sure the AR can kill a shot gun scout from far away but a laser can do it better and a shotgun will ruin an AR user in CQC, just as an example. If you think the game should not have a generalist weapon that is an entirely different argument but saying a weapon is OP simply because it works well in most situations as opposed to great in specific ones is failing to see the larger picture.

How often do you see people using the burst and breach AR?

Most specialist weapons have been nerfed to the point that they barely compete in their niche with the generalist weapon.

Recently I've been seeing the breach AR quite a bit actually which is funny since it is just this side of useless.

Point #5 I just don't get. Why is it buffed against shields but doesn't lose effectiveness against armour?

Also, forge guns have more range than a non tac ar.

Hero,

This is the third post I have seen you make about this topic. I would like to direct you to the forums rules (for your convience I have only posted the ones that apply to you ):

12. Spamming is prohibited.
Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words GÇ£firstGÇ¥, GÇ£go back to *insert other game name*GÇ¥ and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post.

16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

I find #12 especially pertinent since it says spamming is defined as, "repetitive posting of the same topic." You've already got your tears thread. Could you please just include your facts in that one.

Great info by the way but did you notice that the HMG does more damage? Or that that AR does have kick during extended bursts while the assault scrambler rifle does not (though it does still have a very small cone of dispersion).

What about actual reload speed numbers. I believe the scrambler beats it there as do almost all the side arms based upon my in game testing experience with all these weapons though I could be wrong.

Your statement that the BPO varients of the AR are more effective than any non-AR proto weapon are also patently false.
1) Given elevation or at less than 30m an advanced MD will ruin even a skilled AR user with an equivalent or better AR. If this is combined with fluxes it is an even more dramatic win for the MD user.
2) Against shield tankers the scrambler rifle is vastly more useful (Have you tried them? They are great!)
3) Only heavy weapons can't be fit on any suit so I don't see the point of #8
4) They do not actually out range any weapon other than sniper rifles. I'd like you to look at the Dev Blog for proof about this one. The scrambler wins again! And the TAR, which you rightly point out still has extremely long range, is actually rather hard to kill with thanks to its perfectly low rate of fire. The TAR is a very situationally usefull weapon right now.
5) How long would it take a heavy to kill an AR user assuming every round hits and assuming the person is in a standard assault suit? I'm guessing it is a bit longer than it takes to kill a heavy with an AR...am I right?
6) How long does it take a scout to kill an AR user with a shotgun, once again assuming every shot actually hits and that the AR user in question is in assault gear. From experience I can tell you that a scout can one shot an assault suit if hit detection is working.

I would also like to point out that your damage figures seem to have failed to take the damage bonses into account. Remember that laser weapons get huge shield bonuses causing them to do more effective DPS against shields and explosive weapons get a similar boost vs armor. To really get accurate numbers you should give damage figures vs a suit with say 200 shields and 200 armor (just a even number for easy comparison) and talk about the time it would take each weapon to melt said suit, taking into account damage bonuses. Then to get even more technical you should really describe some real suit fits and how long it would take each of the weapons to kill those fits, taking into account damage bonuses once again. Doing so would show you that against armor tankers MD are going to be more effective and SR will be more effective against shield tankers. The AR will, I am going to guess split the difference, but I'd love for you to prove me wrong.

Now, when you add all that up it doesn't look like the AR is that OP after all. Hmmm funny that. Perhaps it is hit detection issues that are causing your woes?

A experimental nuclear weapon is!

Good write up, but there's one thing that even the devs overlooked:

Yeah, I didn't even know about this until I saw you mention it. I played around with an Exile today and realized how exploitable it is. Any chance I can get a link to your original topic? It's desperately in need of a bump.

*failes to read my other responses*

Personally I do not care for d legendary.
He suggested giving HMG's the same damage as AR's, and also reducing dispersion, basically making any weapon besides the HMG pointless

So yeah, he's not a balancing master.
He couldn't even get his facts right.

Also, don't lie, you think the AR is OP and want to nerf it:

Hero I'm sorry but your are still wrong. Your still not accounting for damage versus shields vs armor. Additionally saying that canceling weapon reload speed is an important factor in making a weapon better than another is silly.

I've said it before and I'll say it a million times. Your comparing specialist weapons to a generalist weapon. The AR functions well in every area but in specific areas the other weapons really out shine it. Sure the AR can kill a shot gun scout from far away but a laser can do it better and a shotgun will ruin an AR user in CQC, just as an example. If you think the game should not have a generalist weapon that is an entirely different argument but saying a weapon is OP simply because it works well in most situations as opposed to great in specific ones is failing to see the larger picture.

It's simply too good at the role of generalist weapon, making it the one weapon to rule them all currently.

Most specialist weapons have been nerfed to the point that they barely compete in their niche with the generalist weapon.

That's why the AR is so overused. It's a no brainer, and it's making dust into a no brainer game.

Also I would like to point out that just because something is heavily used does not mean it is deserving of a nerf or that it is in any way ruining the game... Prove it to them by smashing them with explosive shells