DUST Search - why people say the AR is OP. so that you know

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1. has the fastest reload speed in the game (except for scrambler pistols and flaylocks) <--AR reload cancels faster than the scrambler so it is the fastest.
2. never overheats <-- Balacs is a proto level officer gun. no overheat damage is taken, and overheat recovery is instantaneous
3. has a 60 round clip, each with bullets that do 34+ damage <-- Scrambler rifle has a 48 round clip with a shot that does 78 damage against shields, without damage mods and not including proficiency skills. but is a single fire weapon with less range than an AR

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4. the militia does 425 dps w/o damage mods <--Assault scramble rifle has a DPS of 444.717 not including % efficiency. again this is a LVL 4 advanced gun comparaed to a milita rilfe bro
5. does 110% to shield and 100% to armor <-- 110/90 ..oops my bad. still negligible difference considering the high dps.
6. has negligible dispersion <-- even sustained fire has no recoil up unitl your 45th round and past that it is still low recoil
7. no recoil <-- dispersion is nonexistent up until your 50th round fired when sustained.
8. can be fit on any suit <--this is with reference to CPU/PG requirements which are quite forgiving.
9. out ranges everygun except snipers <-- Correct
10. has extremely accurate hip fire <--- scrambler rifle is a single fire weapon. AR is full auto, save the assault scrmabler but again its an ADV lvl4 weapon compared to a milita AR
11. has the most blue prints of any gun in the game (costs 0 isk and is more effective than proto weaponry thats not AR) <-- BPOs come in STD and militia. but having a free gun that does more DPS than proto weaponry, and beats tank turrets in DPS is kinda OP. BPO isnt op, but the gun needs fixing.

12. the militia variant can kill a heavy in 2.38 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 sheild and armor) <-- due to the heavies large hit box moving or standing still yeilds the same result unless the AR guy has no aim. an HMG can only kill a assault suit a lot faster when the AR guy is 3-4m infront of him and not moving otherwise you dead using a Heavy suit verse an AR.

13. the milita variant can kill a scout in 0.71 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 shield and armor) <-- Scouts are UP

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1. moves only marginaly slower than a scout <-- Which suit, a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? Because the speed difference is almost 20% with the Gallente suits. amaro tanking is broke, thats another issue
2. can tank ehp rivaling heavies <-- Heavies are UP in the EHP department
3. can use equipment (making it a viable option over the logi suit) <-- Only when all the assaults are working together and synchronizing their equipment they can completely weed out a logistics suit since they are more of a burden than an asset in PC. again making Logis pointless
4. is extremely mobile <--- Again which suit a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? armor is UP
5. has the hit box only marginally larger than a scout >> true
6. has a turn speed thats just as fast a s ascout and 4x as fast as a heavy <-- After 1.4 this will be true, speed difference is highly exaggerated though.

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On the recoil and dispersion we are so many years ahead in time so really no gun should have any recoil by now specially since most of our guns aren't even firing projectiles. In our modern time we many guns that have little to no recoil, and very tight dispersion that is barely noticeable except in very long ranges. Of course guns also only take 1 shot to kill but that's another point.


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D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 523	Posted - 2013.08.03 06:40:00 - [1] - Quote The DPS from the AR one of the best in the game. Here's some numbers for you. All weapons are standard level unlesws otherwise stated. AR = 425 dps 20gj blaster turret = 357.125 80gj blater turret = 750.05 crd-9 Assault scrambler rifle (advanced level) = 444.717 HMG = 533.33 MD = 225 direct 115 splash (one round a second, lol) Sniper rifle = 158.3 As you can see the AR outpaces the turret version of the same tech keeps pace with an advanced level weapon and beats the MD and SR's DPS by large amounts. It even keeps pace with the HMG's damage as the AR is much more accurate leading to many more of those shots actually hitting, and then we can factor in damage type making the AR much better at taking on shields (110% vs the HMG's 95%) making it better at taking on the game's most common form of tanking. So yeah, the AR has one of the best DPS in the game (counting turrets) with no real downsides and generous fitting stats. The AR is getting decently balanced now due to shorter ranges and other weapons getting buffed, but it IS the easiest weapon to use and one of the most damaging, all with no real downsides and it's skill gives you access to the Tac AR giving any AR user a way to kill at range. couldnt have said it better myself. just to hammer the last nail in the coffin, the AR: 1. has the fastest reload speed in the game (except for scrambler pistols and flaylocks) 2. never overheats 3. has a 60 round clip, each with bullets that do 34+ damage 4. the militia does 425 dps w/o damage mods 5. does 110% to shield and 100% to armor 6. has negligible dispersion 7. no recoil 8. can be fit on any suit 9. out ranges everygun except snipers 10. has extremely accurate hip fire 11. has the most blue prints of any gun in the game (costs 0 isk and is more effective than proto weaponry thats not AR) 12. the militia variant can kill a heavy in 2.38 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 sheild and armor) 13. the milita variant can kill a scout in 0.71 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 shield and armor) so ^^this is OP. but wait there's more now when you add that to the assault suit. you can see its urber OPness the assault suit: 1. moves only marginaly slower than a scout 2. can tank ehp rivaling heavies 3. can use equipment (making it a viable option over the logi suit) 4. is extremely mobile 5. has the hit box only marginally larger than a scout 6. has a turn speed thats just as fast a s ascout and 4x as fast as a heavy so a squad of assaults with AV nades, duvoles, SMGs, and various equipment (hives, nanites, drop uplinks) is literally unstoppable and makes all other suits and weaponry besides snipers pointless. (this is simply information.)
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 525	Posted - 2013.08.03 07:12:00 - [2] - Quote its unstoppable...lol
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 540	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:35:00 - [3] - Quote Jax Saurian wrote: D legendary hero wrote: 7. no recoil Just want to point something out the AR doesn't use bullets but uses plasma and turns it into a lethal bolt of... well, plasma there wouldn't be any recoil I agree with everything else though jetisoning super heated plasma... the most unstable element across 60m... i mean really. the shotgun works by the same technology and thats why the harness is on it so you don't break your arms upon firing it. you can't tell me that two weapons using the same ammo and technology have completely different recoil...
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 540	Posted - 2013.08.03 18:40:00 - [4] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Hero, valid points all the posts i have made are variations on the same topic. and this thread is simply explaining why people say the AR is op. this thread is not calling for nerfs, asking to remove something, simply to troll, designed to start a riot... etc etc. this thread is simply designed tohelp AR users understand why people say the gun is OP. does this mean the gun IS OP? possibly, or everything else is UP. Certain guns were balanced and then nerfed for the wrong reasons. other guns are perfectly balanced (forguns) and people call for a nerf. this is simply an informative thread and as such does not fall under spam. which is why no DEVs have locked my post. Each although similar topics are variations on the same theme. giving diferent views and ideas upon which individuals such as yourself may embellish. (edit: i will respond to mre of what you said but rigt now im in a hurry.)
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 545	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:20:00 - [5] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Great info by the way but did you notice that the HMG does more damage? Or that that AR does have kick during extended bursts while the assault scrambler rifle does not (though it does still have a very small cone of dispersion). the HMG is attached to a suit with limited mobility. the HMG does 95% to shields the first defense against harm. it has 35% disperion for the first 2 seconds of fire and it only decreases to about 20% dispersion after the 2 second mark up until the 5 second mark where it over heats. the turn speed on the suit, the larger hit box and low ehp compared to mobility make its "marginally higher" dps neglibible. infact, when you factor in its disperion at its effective and optimal ranges it actually has lower dps than a miltia AR. (533 -35% = less than 400dps) you can not consider the HMG without considering all the disadvantages, except for the Ar because it has no disadvantages. Quote: What about actual reload speed numbers. I believe the scrambler beats it there as do almost all the side arms based upon my in game testing experience with all these weapons though I could be wrong. Your statement that the BPO varients of the AR are more effective than any non-AR proto weapon are also patently false. 1) Given elevation or at less than 30m an advanced MD will ruin even a skilled AR user with an equivalent or better AR. If this is combined with fluxes it is an even more dramatic win for the MD user. wrong again. the SMG reloads at 3.5 seconds, the Ar reloads at 3 seconds. scramblers reload at the same speed as ARs, but the AR can reload cancel faster than a scrambler as the animation completes faster. so you can still reload faster with an AR than with a scrambler. Ar does not need any grenades or elevation to be effective it can devistate by itself. in fact an AR in the same exact position can be even more devasting at a farther range. Quote: 2) Against shield tankers the scrambler rifle is vastly more useful (Have you tried them? They are great!) 3) Only heavy weapons can't be fit on any suit so I don't see the point of #8 the scrambler rifle is a single shot weapon it is effective against shields, but not on moving targets and not at range. the AR beats the scrambler at close range, and mid range combat. the scrambler must be at close to mid to compete. unless its an ADV assault scrambler but in that case your comparing a lvl4 weapon to a milita grade gun its got one of the best CPU/PG ratios of every gun in the game thats the point. with almost any set up you have an AR can fit o it. where as with certain suits you can't fit a shotgun, MD, laser due to their higher PG/CPU cost Quote: 4) They do not actually out range any weapon other than sniper rifles. I'd like you to look at the Dev Blog for proof about this one. The scrambler wins again! And the TAR, which you rightly point out still has extremely long range, is actually rather hard to kill with thanks to its perfectly low rate of fire. The TAR is a very situationally usefull weapon right now. 5) How long would it take a heavy to kill an AR user assuming every round hits and assuming the person is in a standard assault suit? I'm guessing it is a bit longer than it takes to kill a heavy with an AR...am I right? the tar is an AR. the scrambler is infact out ranged by the AR i have engaged in combat several times with my scrambelr clasees and i am about to get my assault scrambler but i have been ot ranged and dps'd by ARs on the regular. but when is it that every roud of an HMG would ever hit a competent oppnent? seriously? why would you write that?...lol with initial disperion only at the 3-4m mark will all rounds hit and at that range you can cirlce strafe and move out the way faster than i can turn my body. Quote: 6) How long does it take a scout to kill an AR user with a shotgun, once again assuming every shot actually hits and that the AR user in question is in assault gear. From experience I can tell you that a scout can one shot an assault suit if hit detection is working. but at what range does that happen. in close range its instant. bt an AR can consistantly up to its max range kill a scout in .7-.8 seconds. so yeah, this point is invalid. the thing is the AR does more damage to shield and pretty high damage to armor. so the difference between the shield armor advantage is negligible with an AR, where as for an explosive like a MD its life altering. the first things you encounter are shields they are the frst line of defence Ars work on them fast and Armor at a similar speed. in light of these facts. that the AR is consistently better than other guns
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 546	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:36:00 - [6] - Quote [quote=BL4CKST4R] Quote: 1. has the fastest reload speed in the game (except for scrambler pistols and flaylocks) <--AR reload cancels faster than the scrambler so it is the fastest. 2. never overheats <-- Balacs is a proto level officer gun. no overheat damage is taken, and overheat recovery is instantaneous 3. has a 60 round clip, each with bullets that do 34+ damage <-- Scrambler rifle has a 48 round clip with a shot that does 78 damage against shields, without damage mods and not including proficiency skills. but is a single fire weapon with less range than an AR Quote: 4. the militia does 425 dps w/o damage mods <--Assault scramble rifle has a DPS of 444.717 not including % efficiency. again this is a LVL 4 advanced gun comparaed to a milita rilfe bro 5. does 110% to shield and 100% to armor <-- 110/90 ..oops my bad. still negligible difference considering the high dps. 6. has negligible dispersion <-- even sustained fire has no recoil up unitl your 45th round and past that it is still low recoil 7. no recoil <-- dispersion is nonexistent up until your 50th round fired when sustained. 8. can be fit on any suit <--this is with reference to CPU/PG requirements which are quite forgiving. 9. out ranges everygun except snipers <-- Correct 10. has extremely accurate hip fire <--- scrambler rifle is a single fire weapon. AR is full auto, save the assault scrmabler but again its an ADV lvl4 weapon compared to a milita AR 11. has the most blue prints of any gun in the game (costs 0 isk and is more effective than proto weaponry thats not AR) <-- BPOs come in STD and militia. but having a free gun that does more DPS than proto weaponry, and beats tank turrets in DPS is kinda OP. BPO isnt op, but the gun needs fixing. 12. the militia variant can kill a heavy in 2.38 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 sheild and armor) <-- due to the heavies large hit box moving or standing still yeilds the same result unless the AR guy has no aim. an HMG can only kill a assault suit a lot faster when the AR guy is 3-4m infront of him and not moving otherwise you dead using a Heavy suit verse an AR. 13. the milita variant can kill a scout in 0.71 seconds without damage mods (with lvl 5 shield and armor) <-- Scouts are UP Quote: 1. moves only marginaly slower than a scout <-- Which suit, a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? Because the speed difference is almost 20% with the Gallente suits. amaro tanking is broke, thats another issue 2. can tank ehp rivaling heavies <-- Heavies are UP in the EHP department 3. can use equipment (making it a viable option over the logi suit) <-- Only when all the assaults are working together and synchronizing their equipment they can completely weed out a logistics suit since they are more of a burden than an asset in PC. again making Logis pointless 4. is extremely mobile <--- Again which suit a shield suit or a Gallente/Amarr suit? armor is UP 5. has the hit box only marginally larger than a scout >> true 6. has a turn speed thats just as fast a s ascout and 4x as fast as a heavy <-- After 1.4 this will be true, speed difference is highly exaggerated though. I don't think ARs are OP. I think everything else is UP and either they need to be BUFFed or ARs nerfed Quote: On the recoil and dispersion we are so many years ahead in time so really no gun should have any recoil by now specially since most of our guns aren't even firing projectiles. In our modern time we many guns that have little to no recoil, and very tight dispersion that is barely noticeable except in very long ranges. Of course guns also only take 1 shot to kill but that's another point. ^^if thats the case my HMG should have perfect accuracy and zero disperion.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 546	Posted - 2013.08.03 22:40:00 - [7] - Quote 21yrOld Knight wrote: What do you use D legendary? i use alittle bit of everything i have SP for. shotguns, ARs, scramblers, HMGs, forguns, flaylocks, smgs, tanks, LAVs, dropships. i just try to have fun and a good o' time. but i have noticed that with my AR i jut plain ****. when i use the HMG i get raped. i used scouts but surrendered... i use heavies and i have most of my 10mil SP in it, but its just weak compared to ARs.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 549	Posted - 2013.08.04 00:03:00 - [8] - Quote still i have stated my case. The evidence is irrefutible. people say its used because its the standard. but the standard wouldn't account for more kills than anything else. gattling guns killed more people than rifles in WWI, bombs killed more people in ARs in WWII. ARs are important, but not the most effective means to an end
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:29:00 - [9] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: D legendary hero wrote: still i have stated my case. The evidence is irrefutible. people say its used because its the standard. but the standard wouldn't account for more kills than anything else. gattling guns killed more people than rifles in WWI, bombs killed more people in ARs in WWII. ARs are important, but not the most effective means to an end A experimental nuclear weapon is! but thats OP so it was nerfed at the geoneva conventions... oh wait we actually buffed it. hydrogen bombs here we go!
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:30:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Good write up, but there's one thing that even the devs overlooked: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Like I said in other threads and my own thread on the subject, the current Gallente AR just needs a faster dispersion increase rate in order to require it to be fired in long bursts to stay accurate. As well - and I'm not surprised at this, since this is CCP's first shooter - there is another issue. The dispersion rate resets the moment your release the trigger. With the way the DS3 triggers work, this means that you can quickly release just enough pressure and then depress the trigger again to allow you to burn through an entire magazine while remaining completely accurate. This is similar to how pulsing your trigger rapidly in Halo 3 would result in winning any AR v AR battle against someone who just held the trigger down. The dispersion rate needs to have some kind of time-based falloff such that you can't feather the trigger to stay accurate without slowing your rate of fire. good post

D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:32:00 - [11] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Thanks for putting the quote here! Was about to do it myself. I imagine the AR would seem like it had no balance issues at all if it weren't for the ability to do exactly what I described in my post to perfect effect. Yeah, I didn't even know about this until I saw you mention it. I played around with an Exile today and realized how exploitable it is. Any chance I can get a link to your original topic? It's desperately in need of a bump. yes please post your link here.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:43:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: failes to read my other responses since i already spoke regarding this in another post on page 1, i will not repeat myself. however, i will like to point out a few things about the assault scrambler rifle vs GEK. 1. Scr rifle over heats, GEK NEVER over heats 2. Scr rifle has less range/does less damage over range thn the GEK 3. Scr rilfe has much more muzzle flash than a GEK 4. Costs more CPU/PG to fit 5. please don't compare the Scrambler RIFLE to the fully Auto AR, as yes it does 77 something damage but its a single shot weapon with less range than a full auto AR. and over heat after a few shots. 6. yes a scrambler rifle on an Amar suit has less overheating, but an AR never overheats on any suit. 7. Scr rilfe has more recoil than an AR 8. reload cancel on an AR is faster than a Scr so, the reload is faster on AR. 9. you need an Adv lvl Scr to get the same Dps as a militia AR. 10. The Ascr has worse hip fire than the GEK. (just try it. i used it and im good at mid range but the hip fire on the Scr rifle is no where near as lethal as it is on my GEK)
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:47:00 - [13] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Personally I do not care for d legendary. He suggested giving HMG's the same damage as AR's, and also reducing dispersion, basically making any weapon besides the HMG pointless So yeah, he's not a balancing master. He couldn't even get his facts right. yeah, i just know how to basic math. also, since you obvious have a tension span that doesn't last more than 5 second, you should start rereading those threads and understand what i was talking about. notice why i am not asking for that anymore? because the heavy suit is starting to get fixed. I was also asking that during the time the HMg did 12 damage per shot, proto logis had more ehp than heavies, heavies couldnt turn fast enough to hit anything and TAC ars were killing everybody. so, yeah, if you can stand to read longer than you last in bed you will see what im talking about.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 09:50:00 - [14] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Also, don't lie, you think the AR is OP and want to nerf it: D legendary hero wrote: Charlotte O'Dell wrote: But the AR has a higher DPS than the mass driver. That AR is more powerful and requires just as little skill to use which is why it is so popular with noobs. actually it requires ZERO skill and SP... mitlia BPO, toxin, DREN, recuter AR.... all with 425 dps all of which can kill a heavy a speced out heavy in 2.3 seconds or less and a scout in .70 seconds or less MD never was OP, isnt OP and never will be OP. ARs are OP you failed to read the post in that very same thread and several other threads where i said ARs are OP because pretty much everything else is UP. You are trying to attack my chracter because you no have no proof that ARs are not OP, or that other guns aren't UP in comparison. prove you point with evidence not satire.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 10:01:00 - [15] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Hero I'm sorry but your are still wrong. Your still not accounting for damage versus shields vs armor. Additionally saying that canceling weapon reload speed is an important factor in making a weapon better than another is silly. I've said it before and I'll say it a million times. Your comparing specialist weapons to a generalist weapon. The AR functions well in every area but in specific areas the other weapons really out shine it. Sure the AR can kill a shot gun scout from far away but a laser can do it better and a shotgun will ruin an AR user in CQC, just as an example. If you think the game should not have a generalist weapon that is an entirely different argument but saying a weapon is OP simply because it works well in most situations as opposed to great in specific ones is failing to see the larger picture. ok, saying that lasers can do better, makes me lose all respec for this post. how many people do you see using lasers and getting kills? (just pause and think about it) compare to ARs. (pause and think) now of course i have mentioned on several occasions that ARs are supposed to be versitile. infact on several threads i said if ARs required skill people s=would need to use them with versitility (AR vs shotgun, AR goes mid range, AR vs sniper AR gets close). however, I have consitently seen situations where ARs beat shotguns in CQC. that should never happen. i have never said ARs shouldnt be versitile. weapon. I said the AR should be a jack of all trades. a Master of none. as i have previously stated, it can do pretty much every specialists weapons job better than the Specialist weapon. I.E. the HMG vs AR comparison. The Ar has longer range, better accuracy, no disperion, no recoil, 34+ damage per shot, better suit fitting abilities, better CPU/PG, no suit limitations, 425dps plus the 10% buff all guns get, plus any damage mods, plus the 15% proficiency (if they decide to get it, the SP requirement is one of the lowest. does excellent damage to shields, can get head shots easy, has excellent hip fire, reloads at light speed, never over heats with this in mind. you can suppress enemies harder with an AR than with an HMG. (if you want info on the HMg i will gladly put if for comparisons sake as I am a HVY. but i have ADV ARs and ADVs scramblers too) and just to reply about the HMg doing AR damage. serious? the HMG has on slightly better DPS than an AR with 35% disperion and its a HEAVY weapon! YOU same guys wanted to nerf the Flaylock because it was a secondary better than a Primary in CQC. but when a Light weapon is better than a HEAVY weapon thats perfectly fine? that is hypocritical!
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 10:05:00 - [16] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: It's simply too good at the role of generalist weapon, making it the one weapon to rule them all currently. Most specialist weapons have been nerfed to the point that they barely compete in their niche with the generalist weapon. That's why the AR is so overused. It's a no brainer, and it's making dust into a no brainer game. ^^finally someone with some sense.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 559	Posted - 2013.08.04 10:10:00 - [17] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Also I would like to point out that just because something is heavily used does not mean it is deserving of a nerf or that it is in any way ruining the game... Prove it to them by smashing them with explosive shells ^^one word: FLAYLOCKS heavily used. explosive shelss. guess what it proved.... nothing people just nerfed it. if you get too good with something that isnt an AR it gets nerfed. in fact CCP Wolfman said in his reasons why it was nerfed was that in skiled hands it could become as effective as a primary. and by primary of course he means AR hahaha look it up.