DUST Search - So, the active scanner...

Protocake JR wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally.

What are we testing?

Shared vision for squads disabled.
Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen).
The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad.
Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear.
HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at.
Hit indication is FF is off is disabled.

Why are we testing this?

We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up.
We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others.
We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic.

How is it going?

Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-)

Pertaining to active scanners on vehicles, will it display info to my entire team if i'm not in a squad?

>Inb4 lern2sqd

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 219	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:26:00 - [1] - Quote Actually looks pretty good in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyGxjCMXago&feature=youtu.be&a Anyone as an individual, or corp, making good use of it?
xSaloLx GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 47	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:32:00 - [2] - Quote I don't personal use it, but I've seen others and my brother use it. I love the idea, knowing where your enemy is is definitely an advantage (especially with the proto one that shows them for 25 sec iirc). I haven't heard any complaints about its effectiveness, the only thing to change, imho, should be to give it spotting/ kill assist war points (like 3-5pts. per kill during the effect time) giving more of an incentive to use it (same thing with the vehicle active scanner).
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 1516	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:33:00 - [3] - Quote RedRebelCork wrote: Actually looks pretty good in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyGxjCMXago&feature=youtu.be&a Anyone as an individual, or corp, making good use of it? Only downside is the person using it does not get WP for spotting enemies. It works good though.
Smooth Assassin Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:33:00 - [4] - Quote RedRebelCork wrote: Actually looks pretty good in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyGxjCMXago&feature=youtu.be&a Anyone as an individual, or corp, making good use of it? Only for vehicles especially assault dropships
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 229	Posted - 2013.07.28 22:43:00 - [5] - Quote it's crucial.
Beren Hurin K-A-O-S theory 831	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:08:00 - [6] - Quote It is excellent with longer ranged weapons. You can see people behind cover then blow them away when they pop out. He's with TAC ar, laser, scrambler rifle and mass driver.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 817	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:10:00 - [7] - Quote we dont talk about scanners much to keep them under the nerf radar
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2841	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:16:00 - [8] - Quote They're pretty good on vehicles, being able to scan at 40sp for a 100m's around your vehicle is pretty damn useful.
broonfondle majikthies P.O.N.A.G.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 54	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:32:00 - [9] - Quote I never leave the MCC without one
Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC 16	Posted - 2013.07.28 23:49:00 - [10] - Quote At first I thought it was a bad choice on my part, but now I realize that my first intuition paid off; it's a lot better than improving suit scan precision. Like it's been said though, it's disappointing that unlike every other equipment item it offers no direct SP when used successfully for the benefit of the team. I don't think 5-15 WP for a successful scan of any previously invisible target(s) would be too much, or too little. Maybe it will be something addressed in another update, I know they've had trouble with scanners in the past so it might be difficult to get them to do that.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 6685	Posted - 2013.07.29 00:48:00 - [11] - Quote I find it useful on cluttered maps and helping people be more aware of sneaky sorts.
Beren Hurin K-A-O-S theory 831	Posted - 2013.07.29 00:51:00 - [12] - Quote It is rather satisfying using them to catch the sneaky shotgunners thinkkng they will catch you with your back turned around a corner.
negative49er The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 103	Posted - 2013.07.29 01:59:00 - [13] - Quote I would fit one but the Cpu and Pg requirement are high and i run a minmatar suit

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 738	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:29:00 - [14] - Quote This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen). The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Hit indication is FF is off is disabled. Why are we testing this? We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others. We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic. How is it going? Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-)

Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 461	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:39:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Is this going to work cohesively w the mass driver or are we going to have to aim down before we aim up to see HP bars/target intel? Also, since objectives can't be blown up, and only hacked, is there any way to turn off the hit indicator for it?
Abby Invo muse.and.fury 26	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:40:00 - [16] - Quote RedRebelCork wrote: Actually looks pretty good in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyGxjCMXago&feature=youtu.be&a Anyone as an individual, or corp, making good use of it? That looks really cool and almost makes me want to play a scout.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 539	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:45:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Shared vision for squads disabled. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Don't like. Quote: Hit indication is FF is off is disabled. What? Quote: We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. Can you give us the option to turn these off instead of making it mandatory? Some of us aren't distracted by more than one thing on the screen and can handle multiple sources of information at once.
Protocake JR Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 299	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:47:00 - [18] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen). The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Hit indication is FF is off is disabled. Why are we testing this? We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others. We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic. How is it going? Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-) Pertaining to active scanners on vehicles, will it display info to my entire team if i'm not in a squad? >Inb4 lern2sqd
Decasor The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 26	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:51:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen). The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Hit indication if FF is off is disabled. Why are we testing this? We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others. We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic. How is it going? Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-) I like, and agree with your reasoning behind it. Particularly at range with 3+ enemies in a small area it just turns into a mishmash of tags and names that is near impossible to pick out. The current random invisibility/running chevron problems exacerbate this however at the best of times it can get pretty frustrating. Its counter intuitive that the more targets in an area the harder they are to hit.
Leither Yiltron KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 616	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:53:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. It's my opinion that the quoted ideas are bad ones. For the first bullet point: You provide inadequate comms for communicating intel without significant chatter. Now you're suggesting that you're thinking of making inter-squad chatter a tad more crucial. Nopenopenope. It's also pretty damn hard to spot tanks at the moment, which is a detriment to the tank vs. tank gameplay. Removing team sight actually exacerbates this issue in an already ailing gameplay role. For the second: So what you're saying is that you're limiting active scanning results to squad members only. This will encourage fewer of the things, not more. The active scanner already has severe penalties associated with its use. You have to take it out and hold it in your hands for one. You've also got the problem that targets are informed that they've been scanned. The better you make the scanner, the more of penalty you turn this notification into. So yeah, devoting an active scanner to an equipment slot in 3 squads isn't worth the utility since it's just going to add to the egregious amount of chatter. For the third: You've already taken to removing very pertinent information from the HUD. For instance, there was a readout that you guys ninja removed that was a very, very nice asset to have. When you were aiming from the hip, there used to be a readout that appeared right beside your crosshair that had two tiny lines: (MLT/STD/PRO) and (Efficiency rating). The efficiency rating wasn't particular helpful, but the suit level was really nice. It allowed players to very quickly assess the threat level of the person that they were facing. Sure, that information is available in the bottom left still, but that location is ass backwards inconvenient. Removing more information from the HUD is unnecessary. No health bars unless you're aiming at the guy? Great, now I can't tell if a guy started to regenerate his shields or not unless I'm aiming at him. And if he wanders into my field of vision after having already been shot I don't have any idea of his health either. The HUD is perhaps a tad cluttered, but I don't think I'm in a minority saying that I like it that way. It makes me feel like I'm fighting a sci-fi war in space.


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 747	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:53:00 - [21] - Quote Protocake JR wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen). The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Hit indication is FF is off is disabled. Why are we testing this? We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others. We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic. How is it going? Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-) Pertaining to active scanners on vehicles, will it display info to my entire team if i'm not in a squad? >Inb4 lern2sqd just to you in that case


CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 747	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:54:00 - [22] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: RedRebelCork wrote: Actually looks pretty good in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyGxjCMXago&feature=youtu.be&a Anyone as an individual, or corp, making good use of it? Only downside is the person using it does not get WP for spotting enemies. It works good though. we plan to add WP for scanning as soon as we can

viirastus Eesti Leegion 1	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:55:00 - [23] - Quote its been working since 1.2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4nPf2zDzLs
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 5548	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:56:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen). The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Hit indication if FF is off is disabled. Why are we testing this? We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others. We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic. How is it going? Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-) Awesome stuff Wolfman, as usual. I for one love my scanner, even if I don't use it all too often. It's an amazingly useful tool, and I'm definitely looking forward to watching it evolve as time goes on.

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 749	Posted - 2013.07.29 06:59:00 - [25] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Is this going to work cohesively w the mass driver or are we going to have to aim down before we aim up to see HP bars/target intel? Also, since objectives can't be blown up, and only hacked, is there any way to turn off the hit indicator for it? Right now, no. It doesn't seem to have proved much of a problem in testing. If it does prove to be one we can look at a little code tweak for the MD. Regarding objective hit indication, we want to fix that, it's on the list along with lots of little things

Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 462	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:00:00 - [26] - Quote You're the man, wolfman.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 2238	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:08:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: This seems like a good opportunity to tell you about some of the scanning related things weGÇÖre currently testing internally. What are we testing? Shared vision for squads disabled. Team member chevrons only visible when they are in LOS. Squad chevrons remain 3D (stick to the edge of the screen). The active scanner shares all scan results with your squad. Pretty little pulsing effect on things that have been scanned so you can understand why you are seeing them and why they disappear. HP bars and name tag visible only for what you are aiming/firing at. Hit indication if FF is off is disabled. Why are we testing this? We are unhappy with how much noise there is on the HUD. It often gets in the way (tags in particular) rather than helping you understand what is going on. We want to clean it up. We feel that scanning in particular is unclear, you often didnGÇÖt really know why you see some things and not others. We want active scanning to be a more important tactical mechanic. How is it going? Pretty well, quite happy with it so far :-) I like this a lot but I would like some elaboration if that is okay. Shared vision for Squads is disabled - but is shared vision for Teams disabled as well..? This would be a massive (and very much needed) buff to Scouts and may even pave way for bringing back the pre-Uprising dropsuit scan ranges as 2.5m is a little low. The only time something dips within 2.5m is if it's using Knives, at which point you are already dead. As far as Active Scanners being more important as far as tactical mechanics - they really need to give some kind of WP to the user. I have a thread regarding a properly balanced method of doing this here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1068738#post1068738 I'd also like to propose that Cloaking (if it's even still on the table) should be limited to Scouts to give them a specific role that makes them unique, much like Sentinels are permitted the use of Heavy Weaponry as an example. This would make the Scout a very terrifying force to be reckoned with and the Active Scanner that much more essential to front-liners.
Winsaucerer The Southern Legion 173	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:16:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hit indication if FF is off is disabled. How then will I annoy friendly snipers by shooting them in the back, and watching them get up and run scared? It's the only way I know right now to let them know I disapprove of their role choice.
Billi Gene The Southern Legion 187	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:18:00 - [29] - Quote sounds reasonable to me >.< specialist fittings though niche bring bonuses, limiting those bonuses to squad encourages others to "fit outside the box" so to speak. uncluttering clumped target intel is a move in the right direction, it would be nice to have an area around the crosshairs in which target intel "exploded" away from the cross hair with lines attaching to dots and a single chevron only for the target under the cross hair, but i'd hazard that even the real world military doesnt use such any such heavy handed and overly computational systems. Otherwise a move towards squad based intel seems to me quite fine. It should increase the stress levels associated with roving rather nicely, and impart greater importance to environmental factors for determining where 'reds' are (ie: gunfire ). As a related note though... :P running chevrons (aka non rendered entities) are counter intuitive to any process uncluttering the ui) Hoping that part of the motive for a push towards squad based intel, is to allow higher rendering distances and object counts. peace and prosperity

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 753	Posted - 2013.07.29 07:20:00 - [30] - Quote Quote: I like this a lot but I would like some elaboration if that is okay. Shared vision for Squads is disabled - but is shared vision for Teams disabled as well..? This would be a massive (and very much needed) buff to Scouts and may even pave way for bringing back the pre-Uprising dropsuit scan ranges as 2.5m is a little low. The only time something dips within 2.5m is if it's using Knives, at which point you are already dead. As far as Active Scanners being more important as far as tactical mechanics - they really need to give some kind of WP to the user. I have a thread regarding a properly balanced method of doing this here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1068738#post1068738 I'd also like to propose that Cloaking (if it's even still on the table) should be limited to Scouts to give them a specific role that makes them unique, much like Sentinels are permitted the use of Heavy Weaponry as an example. This would make the Scout a very terrifying force to be reckoned with and the Active Scanner that much more essential to front-liners. Yes shared vision for squads and teams is disabled in our current internal build. Personally I've found it makes the game more exciting. Agree on it needing WP rewards. We're doing our best to get to those as soon as we can. Cloaking is still on the table, not going to speak about that atm though :-)




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