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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
82
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Posted - 2013.07.29 11:36:00 -
[61] - Quote
^ Yeah lets put another P2 Wi...................opps, I mean another pay 2 get ahead item in for Aur with a fake ISK equivalent that will allow you to reload while running. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax. CRONOS.
120
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Posted - 2013.07.29 11:53:00 -
[62] - Quote
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP wrote:^ Yeah lets put another P2 Wi...................opps, I mean another pay 2 get ahead item in for Aur with a fake ISK equivalent that will allow you to reload while running. Your nick is suspicious... |
Captain Wontubulous
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
42
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Posted - 2013.07.29 12:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
I think people need to know the difference between running and sprinting. To anyone who says it's possible to reload a gun while sprinting I want to see a video of you reloading a gun at a full sprint. That means you covering 100 meters in approximately 10 seconds while reloading a gun. Hell sign your signature on paper at that speed. I'd bet none of you can do either. When you're moving with the joystick fully depressed, that's running. Doing some things is fully possible at this speed. When you push to sprint, that's you making your body move as fast as humanly possible. You are pumping your arms to create momentum by using your secondary muscles to pump your legs. As soon as you start using your secondary muscles for something else, your top speeds are no longer possible. That should handle the "realism" aspect.
For anyone saying you "need" to be able to reload while sprinting for tactical reasons how about we just make reloading unnecessary? I mean that would be the next argument right? It's a tactical disadvantage to not have all your bullets in your gun all the time, right? How about having to overcome tactical disadvantages and think rather than have everything spoon fed to you? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2731
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Posted - 2013.07.29 12:28:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:Sete Clifton wrote:Personally I don't think they should add the ability. I think the choice of whether to run away/towards an enemy or reload to shoot is an important one. But I'd still be fine with it if it was added. I am quite tempted to agree with you on that. I think you can have a compromise, though.
On another one of these threads, I linked a video that showed the reload mechanics of Interstellar Marines, which featured a double-length reload that was possible while sprinting.
In that way, you keep the need to make the choice, but based on a different factor:
You can run away AND reload at the same time, but will that have you ready to fire in time for your next target to pop up, or to deal with that shotgunner around the corner? Etc., etc. |
Duck Drahko
DUST University Ivy League
101
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:04:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Wolfman wrote:This hasn't been forgotten. It is on the current backlog of 'things to do', however we've not actually made a final decision on whether or not we want to do it yet. I'm happy to listen to arguments for and against here :-)
It really breaks fluidity of the game, and it adds a lot of unpredictability. FIrst of all, it really screws with a new player's mind, because it is illogical in many ways. There are quirks with it which make it even less predictable, like the fact that you can interrupt a reload right after the clip is inserted and it still counts (although I understand why you did it, as the alternative would be irritating).
The "tactical choice" seems a bit overrated to me. Reloading still leaves you vulnerable, whether you are sprinting or not. The difference is so marginal, that I don't think it's worth breaking the fluidity and confusing new players. When in doubt, I find that "keeping things simple" is almost always the best choice.
I would suggest to consider two other options instead (which could easily be combined):
1) Pause the reload during sprint, but don't cancel it. Since the weapon is lowered anyway during sprint, it should be possible to pause the reload without it looking too odd (the weapon could be lowered completely out of sight if necessary).
2) Never allow a reload to be canceled under any circumstance. This would actually increase the tactical consideration, since you can't just change your mind rapidly as you can now (e.g. by switching to the sidearm instead). If you start a reload, it's a tactical commitment. This would also negate the need for the current fast reload "glitch". |
The Attorney General
ZionTCD
614
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Posted - 2013.07.29 13:20:00 -
[66] - Quote
Winsaucerer wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Sete Clifton wrote:Personally I don't think they should add the ability. I think the choice of whether to run away/towards an enemy or reload to shoot is an important one. But I'd still be fine with it if it was added. I am quite tempted to agree with you on that. I also agree. I don't think you should be able to reload while running.
Put me down as in agreement as well. It seemed like an interesting design choice, one I have adapted to, and it is one of the few areas where Dust is different from other FPS games.
Stick to your guns on this one CCP. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
751
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Posted - 2013.07.29 16:45:00 -
[67] - Quote
You can reload while jogging
Jogging is running just a lttile slower
So you are already reloading while running |
OSGR Valdez
Contract Hunters
3
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Posted - 2013.07.29 16:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
I think reloading while running is a great idea! though.. to make it realistic and fair, it should add time to your reload time. ex) -standing/walking = 3sec. -running = 4sec/5sec |
IRuby Heart
DIOS EX. Top Men.
854
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Posted - 2013.07.29 16:57:00 -
[69] - Quote
This would be a Good Buff to scouts, Give it to them and no one else. |
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
532
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:00:00 -
[70] - Quote
I think having to choose between running and reloading is a good thing for this game, its a decision that needs to be made based on the situation one is in and adds a bit of depth to an individuals tactics mid firefight. |
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Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
382
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:01:00 -
[71] - Quote
No running while reloading (except for canceling the animation at the right time or canceling the reload entirely) Yes to running while venting scrambler heat
I say this despite being an AR user instead of a SCR user. |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
417
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
For the added frenzy and fluidity of this futuristic combat, reloading while running is necessary. Especially when retreating and trying to cover your own six. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
389
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:29:00 -
[73] - Quote
Having to choose whether to reload or run and then reload in a safer place seems tactical enough. Although they'll have to remove jumping and reloading as that makes no sense.
While reload running adds some fluidity to firefights, it also breaks the risk vs reward of choices in combat. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1354
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:32:00 -
[74] - Quote
I would say yes do it... otherwise any sort of reload speed modification will always be a waste of SP in light of sprint clipping the animation and shaving 20-30% of the reload speed. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
762
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
Captain Wontubulous wrote:I think people need to know the difference between running and sprinting. To anyone who says it's possible to reload a gun while sprinting I want to see a video of you reloading a gun at a full sprint. That means you covering 100 meters in approximately 10 seconds while reloading a gun. Hell sign your signature on paper at that speed. I'd bet none of you can do either. When you're moving with the joystick fully depressed, that's running. Doing some things is fully possible at this speed. When you push to sprint, that's you making your body move as fast as humanly possible. You are pumping your arms to create momentum by using your secondary muscles to pump your legs. As soon as you start using your secondary muscles for something else, your top speeds are no longer possible. That should handle the "realism" aspect.
For anyone saying you "need" to be able to reload while sprinting for tactical reasons how about we just make reloading unnecessary? I mean that would be the next argument right? It's a tactical disadvantage to not have all your bullets in your gun all the time, right? How about having to overcome tactical disadvantages and think rather than have everything spoon fed to you?
Take your logic elsewhere bud!
lol, kidding. This post 1,000,000 times.
Don't press down and sprint, you can reload.. who the hell can run top speed and reload.. nobody. it is impossible to achieve top speed and do anything else with your arms as you have stated. |
Duck Drahko
DUST University Ivy League
101
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Posted - 2013.07.29 18:11:00 -
[76] - Quote
Knightshade Belladonna wrote:Captain Wontubulous wrote:I think people need to know the difference between running and sprinting. To anyone who says it's possible to reload a gun while sprinting I want to see a video of you reloading a gun at a full sprint. That means you covering 100 meters in approximately 10 seconds while reloading a gun. Hell sign your signature on paper at that speed. I'd bet none of you can do either. When you're moving with the joystick fully depressed, that's running. Doing some things is fully possible at this speed. When you push to sprint, that's you making your body move as fast as humanly possible. You are pumping your arms to create momentum by using your secondary muscles to pump your legs. As soon as you start using your secondary muscles for something else, your top speeds are no longer possible. That should handle the "realism" aspect.
For anyone saying you "need" to be able to reload while sprinting for tactical reasons how about we just make reloading unnecessary? I mean that would be the next argument right? It's a tactical disadvantage to not have all your bullets in your gun all the time, right? How about having to overcome tactical disadvantages and think rather than have everything spoon fed to you? Take your logic elsewhere bud! lol, kidding. This post 1,000,000 times. Don't press down and sprint, you can reload.. who the hell can run top speed and reload.. nobody. it is impossible to achieve top speed and do anything else with your arms as you have stated.
Yeah by that logic you also wouldn't be able to instantly start sprinting mid-reload, your clip would fall to the ground at the very least... Realism only gets us that far, in the end it's gameplay mechanics we are talking about. |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
113
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Posted - 2013.07.29 18:21:00 -
[77] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:The feature: reloading while running. Running while reloading is NOT impossible, especially with the muscle memory of an experience of a soldier, or an immortal mercenary with countless lives worth of experience and augmentations. It would be noticeably slower to do while running, but it is possible. CCP already promised this feature, its been 10 months since they promised, yet they have yet to keep their promise. This is not PVE, or weapon customization, or some other big feature that would take a lot of time to implement, this is fairly simple and there is no reason it shouldn't be done by now. They have no even mentioned this feature since 10 months ago. If they changed their minds, then they should have said so. Them just giving up on a simple promised feature like that makes it hard to trust them on the big promised features. CCP if you're reading, rescind the statement about reloading while running, or get to work on implementing the feature. I suggest you remove all promised features in the feedback/requests weekly updates thread that you've changed your mind on to prevent confusion. EDIT: Running while reloading would lead to more fluid gameplay, and a tradeoff would still be involved when running if it makes reloading slower. You assault guys already have it good enough. |
Duck Drahko
DUST University Ivy League
101
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 18:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:The feature: reloading while running. Running while reloading is NOT impossible, especially with the muscle memory of an experience of a soldier, or an immortal mercenary with countless lives worth of experience and augmentations. It would be noticeably slower to do while running, but it is possible. CCP already promised this feature, its been 10 months since they promised, yet they have yet to keep their promise. This is not PVE, or weapon customization, or some other big feature that would take a lot of time to implement, this is fairly simple and there is no reason it shouldn't be done by now. They have no even mentioned this feature since 10 months ago. If they changed their minds, then they should have said so. Them just giving up on a simple promised feature like that makes it hard to trust them on the big promised features. CCP if you're reading, rescind the statement about reloading while running, or get to work on implementing the feature. I suggest you remove all promised features in the feedback/requests weekly updates thread that you've changed your mind on to prevent confusion. EDIT: Running while reloading would lead to more fluid gameplay, and a tradeoff would still be involved when running if it makes reloading slower. You assault guys already have it good enough.
If anything this would benefit logis who don't have a sidearm to switch to. |
Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet Top Men.
27
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Posted - 2013.07.29 18:30:00 -
[79] - Quote
Torr Wrath wrote:I think having to choose between running and reloading is a good thing for this game, its a decision that needs to be made based on the situation one is in and adds a bit of depth to an individuals tactics mid firefight.
This.
Could not have said it better myself. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
574
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Posted - 2013.07.29 18:33:00 -
[80] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:If you're reloading while sprinting there should be some sort of modifier. Such as the reload cycle taking longer or sprint speed decreased.
Also the interval based reloading is a good idea. =) like using up stamina faster... |
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King Kobrah
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
869
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Posted - 2013.07.29 18:33:00 -
[81] - Quote
Lol 10 months and you're still not sure CCP? do you expect anyone to believe that?
you can reload and jump at the same time, why can't you reload and sprint?
why no WP for mCRU? that's one or two very simple lines of code.
getting real tired of this bs |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2509
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 18:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
We CAN reload while running. Reloading while sprinting is something we don't have, and it's impossible anyway. Even if you're a biotically enhanced supersoldier, you won't be able to reload while sprinting. Dust mercs are faster and stronger than normal humans, but they still can't go full speed while reloading- it's just that their full speed is faster.
Same goes for whatever idiot suggested being able to sprint at an odd angle instead of straight ahead. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
357
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Posted - 2013.07.29 18:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
I personally don't like the idea of sprinting while reloading. Sure it adds fluidity, but there is really something to making sure it's safe before reloading, or running away to reload because two guys got the drop on you.
I could support an idea where reloading and GÇ£sprintingGÇ¥ would give you a speed at some point between normal running and full sprint, say maybe 5.8m/s? A bit less than half way on the base Caldari suit if my memory is correct. |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
420
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 20:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Yet, reloading while running should be common in the ruthless world of New Eden. It's part of the mantra of "getting the job done". Risk/reward is not in question here when the merc would simply respond that way because his nature on the battlefield is predatory like. To win at all cost. It feels natural for the game world. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
853
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 20:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
I am amazed, and saddened, by the overwhelming support for no sprint reloading. You guys actually call yourselves FPS players?
I still remember the first FPS game that allowed me to sprint and reload, Killzone 2, and I was blown away at how fluid and better the gameplay felt because of it. When I got KZ2 I came from playing mostly COD4, which did not allow for sprint reloading. Sprint reloading to me, felt like a high quality premium feature that few FPS games actually have, it was a breath of fresh air and felt liberating. It was different, unique, and made the gameplay and gunplay much more intense and satisfying. Hard to describe what I actually felt, but it was surprising to me, and I liked it... A LOT.
The ones who don't want it implemented either:
A) Have never played a competitive online FPS game with sprint reloading capability. B) Are afraid it will make Dust more competitive and difficult when facing higher-caliber players.
Oh and LOL at people trying to relate real-life to video game realism Wow, really? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6727
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 20:55:00 -
[86] - Quote
What if we reduced the reload speed while sprinting along with reduction of sprinting?
Also one major advantage of having reload 'canceled' out by a sprint is that is by far the fastest means of re-readying your gun for combat in the event you get jumped and need your gun now than a reload later. If you remove the sprint cancel reload you will have to resort to weapon swapping (if possible) or melee strike and that is precious seconds wasted as either of those methods are seconds much longer than the millisecond spend canceling the reload.
Strategically just as important is the ability to cancel a reload without wasting so much time doing so.
Now this may sound opposite to what I was saying earlier but the reload cancelling for a massive advantage was referring to something else. While dust 514 has no example to use yet a made up example would be to lock with a swarm launcher, fire, attempt reload, cancel, and immediately start locking again resulting in much faster operation than the standard cadence lock with swarm launcher, fire, wait for internal mechanism to rechamber the next round, then be able to lock again.
But current ingame example of how things work would be attempting to reload an hmg with 120 rounds still left in the magazine and a guy pops out of a corner you can cancel your reload and finish him off with the 120 bullets left in your magazine.
Also there does seem to be a new 'bookmark' on all current reloading basically the 'priming the weapon' portion when the magazine is slapped in and the animation to ready the weapon for combat hasn't played yet, Canceling the reload here will still result in a full magazine and this is pretty current and noticeable on many weapons. |
Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 21:09:00 -
[87] - Quote
I think sidearms should be able to reload while sprinting, with some minor penalty like slower reload and/or more stamina drained.
I also think there should be a staged reload. Like when you have done 50-99% reload and you abort it by sprinting, you resume the reload at 50%.
These fine gentlemen provide me with the excellent ideas.
Min0r Treat wrote:I strongly agree, choosing to move or shoot is part of combat. \But maybe sidearms could be acceptable but not primary weapons, if we see scouts running mass drivers and shotguns escaping with a hit and run tactic it will totally rip apart the flow of combat in close quarters. BUT if we do implement this it should come at the cost of stamina so people can't abuse sprinting reloading hit and runs. or something like that. what do you guys think?
Grief PK wrote:I dont think being able to reload while running negates this choice. You have the same opportunity to be killed rounding a corner while reloading (especially if its slower while running).
Its one of those things that tugs at your logic while playing. You know you can reload an AR or pistol or even a SG while reloading IRL. Maybe only certain classes of weapons can be reloaded while running because its impractical to reload a missile launcher or heavy machine gun while running. It could evolve into an interesting class game dynamic.
Chayser wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:The feature: reloading while running. This is not PVE, or weapon customization, or some other big feature that would take a lot of time to implement, this is fairly simple and there is no reason it shouldn't be done by now. Personally i think it would change "how to game is played" quite a much and so on need to be carefully planned to add or not. And main reason is that then you don't need to think reloading from tactical point of view. Also moving game towards solo playing from teamplay ( even not much, but every little bit count). What i think would be nice is that "partial reload". Where example you can throw old clip away then run and then add new one. it's like 50% done on reloading -> sprint -> last 50%done on reloading. This is also nice because it give you again tactical point of view, when you are about to begin reload partially empty clip. When you throw it a way and your reload is interrupted you don't have anymore those ammunitions from partial clip because it's thrown a way. (edit: of course those are not away from your overall ammunition count, but those just are not loaded in your gun when there is no magazine loaded) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6728
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 21:10:00 -
[88] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:I am amazed, and saddened, by the overwhelming support for no sprint reloading. You guys actually call yourselves FPS players? I still remember the first FPS game that allowed me to sprint and reload, Killzone 2, and I was blown away at how fluid and better the gameplay felt because of it. When I got KZ2 I came from playing mostly COD4, which did not allow for sprint reloading. Sprint reloading to me, felt like a high quality premium feature that few FPS games actually have, it was a breath of fresh air and felt liberating. It was different, unique, and made the gameplay and gunplay much more intense and satisfying. Hard to describe what I actually felt, but it was surprising to me, and I liked it... A LOT. The ones who don't want it implemented either: A) Have never played a competitive online FPS game with sprint reloading capability. B) Are afraid it will make Dust more competitive and difficult when facing higher-caliber players. Oh and LOL at people trying to relate real-life to video game realism Wow, really?
New Eden is far more seated in Science Fiction than Science Fantasy. Thus ergo any chance to take a fun poke at realism should be taken.
I also have to agree with the above poster side arms provides probably the only really easy means of reloading a gun because all of them have much smaller and easier to handle magazines, all larger guns you are very much more prone to dropping them.
There was one game I don't remember which that actually penalized you for reloading early because it remembers how much bullets you have in each magazine and there are times you had to sit down and actually 'combine' magazines. Also the number of maps determined how many bullets you have but also slowed you down a bit. At least in Dust 514 we shouldn't have to resort to that because of our internal magazine reloaders. |
Atikali Havendoorr
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
47
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Posted - 2013.07.29 21:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
But wait a minuteGǪ you can't shoot while sprinting. So why should you be able to reload then? And I've grown comfy with the sprint/reload mechanics. It's a tactical feture.
The Attorney General wrote:Winsaucerer wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:Sete Clifton Personally I don't think they should add the ability. I think the choice of whether to run away/towards an enemy or reload to shoot is an important one. But I'd still be fine with it if it was added.
I am quite tempted to agree with you on that.
I also agree. I don't think you should be able to reload while running. Put me down as in agreement as well. It seemed like an interesting design choice, one I have adapted to, and it is one of the few areas where Dust is different from other FPS games. Stick to your guns on this one CCP.
Or maybe something like this. This would add a very nice tactical feature to all weapons.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well a few things I don't want to see make it into the game.
1. Quick Scoping 2. Reload cancelling for a massive advantage.
However the reload while running is not entirely as bad as the two above, however I would rather see reload 'bookmarks' as in you already removed the magazine before you cancelled why remove it a second time when you resume?
Three bookmarks, 1 removal of previous mag (if required) 2 Loading of new rounds 3 Priming gun for action again (if required) this would open up some guns to have more advantage over others ie hybrid guns don't need priming.
I mean how many of you have reloaded while running, as ex military myself they NEVER taught us to do that.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:...
But current ingame example of how things work would be attempting to reload an hmg with 120 rounds still left in the magazine and a guy pops out of a corner you can cancel your reload and finish him off with the 120 bullets left in your magazine. ... Hmm, this kinda invalidates my reasoning. Didn't think of this. Oh well... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6728
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 21:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
Well I was stating a current stories as they are now as well. |
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