I'm curious - is there anyone here who agrees with the current system and is at least familiar to how tiers work in EVE? Reading this thread it seems like two types of people disagree with tiericide - people who currently protostomp (to be expected naturally) and people who don't seem to fully grasp what OP and others are suggesting, which I can only presume is because they haven't seen it in action.

Though the criticism that because various mechanics are so borked and there is only pvp split across 3 game modes, stands I guess - if there is nothing to do, there is nothing to specialise in other than 'kill moar people betta!'. I mean protostomping isn't just end game - it is the game. What else does it offer?

Though I think the point is, we should be looking to future, not looking to make the best lobby shooter there is.

You make some good points cross, and I agree with them to an extent.

First off, you right corp squads will always stomp pubbies, no question or issue there, it's a good thing, teamwork and tactics should carry the day. "bob" was a bit if a poor example but it was the best I could come up with at the time.

Secondly, the comparison with titans and proto gear was meant more in comparison of blob on blob and man on respectively, the best way to counter a Titan blob is with another Titan blob (or so I am given to understand) and on a 1 on 1 basis the best way to deal with a proto suit is another proto suit. I'm aware that proto suits are fa from invincible will still die, it's just the HP/DPS advantage they have with virtually no drawbacks is ridiculous.

As for emulating BF3 and COD, I meant that in regard to to EHP levels, with a similar line across all players other factors become more important, rather than just HP/DPS levels, engagements in those games feel more more satisfying and exciting than firefights in dust, don't misunderstand me, I don't want to see dust become a clone of either of those games in anyway, I'm just pointing out how neither game provides players with HP advantages and how it might be better for dust to tone down the numbers you can achieve here or balance it in some other way.

As for what you said about the various tiercide ideas I'm in agreement with you to an extent there, I know my own ideas are probably not the best and the other ideas I've seen are interesting I'm not 100% sure whether they're the best that they could be. What's important is that CCP takes some measures to reduce the EHP and DPS gap between tiers that exist right now. If someone wants to run around with as much health as a heavy on a assault suit let him, he better suffer in the DPS department though. An advantage with a drawback is balanced, two advanatges with no drawbacks isn't. Current prototype players are effectively heavies without the mobility penalty, that needs to change.

And I have to agree with you, dust lacks the variety needed to insure that tiercide would work best, I'm not demanding for a change now, I just want to the principle of what I'm proposing being executed in rebalances and new content additions.

List of ship types in EVE

• Assault Ships
• Battlecruisers
• Battleships
• Black Ops
• Capital Industrial Ships
• Carriers
• Command Ships
• Covert Ops Ships
• Cruisers
• Destroyers
• Dreadnoughts
• Electronic Attack Ships
• Exhumers
• Freighters
• Frigates
• Heavy Assault Ships
• Heavy Interdictors
• Industrial Command Ships
• Industrial Ships
• Interceptors
• Interdictors
• Jump Freighters
• Logistics Ships
• Marauders
• Mining Barges
• Motherships
• Pirate Faction Ships
• Recon Ships
• Strategic Cruisers
• Titans
• Transport Ships
• Unique Ships

The point is that the game needs to offer value for roles other than killing, even support roles on the field currently are often able to be viewed in terms of how they effect killing as a once off, picture the response of the average Dust player to seeing the Minmatar Logi function like the Scimitar, let alone the introduction of an entire market tab for completely non-combat dropsuits.

Tiericide when conducted in an environment not yet mature and complex enough to support it simply becomes flattening that strips the game of diversity rather than adding nuanced complexity as it can in EVE. Dust need more in quite a few ways before a solid look can be taken at doing this without the net result being to, more or less, water down the game and the aspects which make it unique.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Necro on this tread cuz I've been looking at Eve and Dust lacks some, many, things from its mama and this might be one of those. Loving much of the rich experience New Eden has to offer through Eve; Dust in the other hand is just a plain and vague experience of it, a mere distasteful silhouette of its companion. Make them more alike CCP, thereGÇÖs so many things that can be implemented and would make the game even more fuc**ng awesome, please just don't underestimate console players. These things could make an impact, a great one in balance and gameplay, and if devs are worried for taking out the black suits.. come on do some research: nice looking things should be sold for money or really hard to obtain.

Skills, not gear.

Say it with me GÇö SKILLS NOT GEAR, SKILLS NOT GEAR!

Im just here sitting in my mlt scout suit killing proto heavys with my remote explosive..

*edit*

ive killed plenty of proto players with a mlt ar
... mlt sniper
... mlt anything\

I don't see why bob was having problems against another player who's twitch skills are not the best.

bob needs to learn the game a bit like i did...
when he is use to it

bob needs to wait for match making or go afk for a year
and while his player will passively farm up sp
he can come back at any time

want to know the difference between a proto shield and a std shield ?

1 ar bullet.
(just saying)

This is the essence of the issue for me.

There is ample evidence to indicate that militia gear is more that capable of competing with proto gear, and for this reason i believe the call for tiericide in DUST is misdirected. The real concern is over the NPE and pubstomps, and these are definitely critical issues for DUST right now.

Tiericide is not the answer to this. Tiericide results in a loss of identity for DUST, and results in making it more like every other shooter out there. RND, Lotis, Red Star, etc., etc., would be equally capable of pubstomping after tiericide. The reason for this is that DUST is constructed in a way such that teamwork and communication is a a massive force-multiplier and is genuinely OP.

And that is exactly as it should be.

We need a solution different than tiericide.

Skills, not gear.

Say it with me GÇö SKILLS NOT GEAR, SKILLS NOT GEAR!

sure skill bonuses have a large affect but gear is still pretty significant, the more slots you have the more things for skill bonuses to affect after all.

"Bob is a decently skilled FPS'er, played his share of games and has just left the academy, since bob has done his research he's come out of the academy with a basic suit and some basic modules and weapons, he has just under 300HP. Now on his first match bob runs into a big bad proto player, this guy is has over 300HP before he he even puts any mods on, now our big bad proto player isn't very good at FPS's, he's an EVE player who is utterly hopeless at twitch shooters but who in the hope he can get better has diligently grinded away at the game till he got his proto suit and modules. Now bob our decently skilled FPS'er tries his best but the damage of the big bad proto's weapon combined with his huge HP advantage is insurmountable, throughout the rest of the game bob tries and tries but he just can't win."

I would agree is basic/enhanced shields weren't so crappy.

I think there should be even more tiers. TF2 is lame and classism is the best way to cause violence, and I get paid when violence happens.

I know the game, I've been playing it since the start of January, I know aurum let's you get stuff sooner, but that's not the point. The point is that the ridiculous DPS and EHP gap between what a new player gets and what someone who's dumped a load of sp into suits and weapons if ridiculous, no other successful FPS does that.