DUST Search - The removal of tiers

Promethius Franklin wrote:

Sete Clifton wrote:

I strongly agree with approach and idea. There's a reason most FPS don't allow you to increase base damage and HP (juggernaut and stopping power, anyone?). And honestly, I don't buy the MMO (or even the RPG) argument. Dust is just as much a lobby shooter as COD/BF/Halo/etc.

That being said, I don't see them actually doing this. However, there still are things to consider for balancing. The three primary issues in my opinion are (in no particular order):

1 - Passive skill bonuses are too large (mostly just for damage and HP related skills)
2 - Modules are too effective/strong
3 - Proto allows for the stacking too many mods

My suggestion for #1 and #2 would be to just reduce the numbers across the board. As an example, I think the base shield/armor skills give a +5% per level, I'd make it 1-2%. Complex shield mods have 66 HP, change it to around half of that.

For #3, instead of reducing the number of overall slots, I'd spread them out. By this I mean keep the overall numbers the same, but introduce a third slot (medium?) and syphon away some highs and lows to fill that new slot. So the basic idea is a proto suit would be something like 2/2/2 (h/m/l) or 3/1/2 or 1/1/4 etc. As for what mods fit into what slot type, that would need to be redone completely. Here's a basic rundown of what I'm thinking:

High - All damage and HP increasing mods
Medium - Non-direct combat mods like stamina, stealth, scan radius, equipment related mods
Low - Shield and armor effectiveness mods like rechargers, repairers, damage type resistance, etc

They should then also introduce a whole bunch of new mods like things that effect how well your equipment works, or mods that for example take up two medium slots but give an extra high slot in return.

People are probably going to **** on me for using this work/phrase/idea, but what this essentially does is makes modules more like perks that help you slightly in certain ways, rather than making you extremely dominant in any particular way. This way, you keep the same number of slots, keep the deep customization, but reduce the stockpiling of single mod types like shields/damage. You're still going to get progression and an advantage over noobs, but it will just be an advantage that you actively need to use with skill rather than just relying on huge passive numbers.

I disagree with the idea that the factors individually are problematic. Rather it's the combination of factors. Being able to add 22 or 66 HP is inconsequential alone, but add that to a passive bonus to base HP and percentage to the mod itself, then add the fact that you can stack that in a proto suit 2-3 more times than in a standard and yes, it becomes a problem. The issue is then exasperated by the length on time needed to get to that level. If it only took a few weeks to get a variety of proto mods, enough to fill a suit, then the performance issues would be a non issue.

Personally I'd like to see STD and ADV suits brought up to where there was a 1 slot difference between tiers and a similar balance brought between module tiers. Also perhaps going from 1/3/5 unlock levels for suits, 1/2/4 would be more suitable, the lowered levels reflecting the closer capabilities of the suits, with the basic frames getting one general but not game breaking bonus, and the specialized frames adding a second task specific one, thus giving lvl 5's a purpose without being a mandate to be competitive.


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Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 70	Posted - 2013.07.25 03:45:00 - [1] - Quote How bout we just lower the skill levels by like 6k for standard, 20k for advanced, and 100k for proto. Or we could go back to the old system with like 6 different levels of suits to skill into (type 1 type 1, type a type b). I actually liked that system better because I don't have to wait 340k skillpoints for just an advanced...
Tectonic Fusion The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 71	Posted - 2013.07.25 03:50:00 - [2] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Sete Clifton wrote: I strongly agree with approach and idea. There's a reason most FPS don't allow you to increase base damage and HP (juggernaut and stopping power, anyone?). And honestly, I don't buy the MMO (or even the RPG) argument. Dust is just as much a lobby shooter as COD/BF/Halo/etc. That being said, I don't see them actually doing this. However, there still are things to consider for balancing. The three primary issues in my opinion are (in no particular order): 1 - Passive skill bonuses are too large (mostly just for damage and HP related skills) 2 - Modules are too effective/strong 3 - Proto allows for the stacking too many mods My suggestion for #1 and #2 would be to just reduce the numbers across the board. As an example, I think the base shield/armor skills give a +5% per level, I'd make it 1-2%. Complex shield mods have 66 HP, change it to around half of that. For #3, instead of reducing the number of overall slots, I'd spread them out. By this I mean keep the overall numbers the same, but introduce a third slot (medium?) and syphon away some highs and lows to fill that new slot. So the basic idea is a proto suit would be something like 2/2/2 (h/m/l) or 3/1/2 or 1/1/4 etc. As for what mods fit into what slot type, that would need to be redone completely. Here's a basic rundown of what I'm thinking: High - All damage and HP increasing mods Medium - Non-direct combat mods like stamina, stealth, scan radius, equipment related mods Low - Shield and armor effectiveness mods like rechargers, repairers, damage type resistance, etc They should then also introduce a whole bunch of new mods like things that effect how well your equipment works, or mods that for example take up two medium slots but give an extra high slot in return. People are probably going to **** on me for using this work/phrase/idea, but what this essentially does is makes modules more like perks that help you slightly in certain ways, rather than making you extremely dominant in any particular way. This way, you keep the same number of slots, keep the deep customization, but reduce the stockpiling of single mod types like shields/damage. You're still going to get progression and an advantage over noobs, but it will just be an advantage that you actively need to use with skill rather than just relying on huge passive numbers. I disagree with the idea that the factors individually are problematic. Rather it's the combination of factors. Being able to add 22 or 66 HP is inconsequential alone, but add that to a passive bonus to base HP and percentage to the mod itself, then add the fact that you can stack that in a proto suit 2-3 more times than in a standard and yes, it becomes a problem. The issue is then exasperated by the length on time needed to get to that level. If it only took a few weeks to get a variety of proto mods, enough to fill a suit, then the performance issues would be a non issue. Personally I'd like to see STD and ADV suits brought up to where there was a 1 slot difference between tiers and a similar balance brought between module tiers. Also perhaps going from 1/3/5 unlock levels for suits, 1/2/4 would be more suitable, the lowered levels reflecting the closer capabilities of the suits, with the basic frames getting one general but not game breaking bonus, and the specialized frames adding a second task specific one, thus giving lvl 5's a purpose without being a mandate to be competitive. I agree. But how bout just more suits. Like basic, basic+, advanced, advenced+, proto. 5 levels.
Tectonic Fusion 865	Posted - 2013.12.28 06:18:00 - [3] - Quote I would agree is basic/enhanced shields weren't so crappy. Solo Player Squad status: Locked