DUST Search - Announcement:Dev Blog: Explosive Dampening: Weapon Rebalancing in Uprising 1.3

Beren Hurin wrote:

Fenix Alexarr wrote:

"Remedy" for the murder taxis? Grenades sticking to the LAV and killing a driver isn't a remedy. It kills the idea of having a vehicle to rep other vehicles (or infantry for God's sake) since you can't go anywhere near enemy infantry. Let's not even talk about Scout LAV weaknesses in this department.

If you want a remedy to Logi LAVs being too tough to kill, nerf low-skilled versions of them and reward high SP investment in them other than 'OMG, MOAR DAMAGE REDUCTION. As it stands, I feel no need to skill any higher into vehicles because of how good the lower SP Logi LAVs are. Maybe you could offer SOME form of protection for a driver other than 'plate, extenders, proto suit' as well. And maybe you could also fix the damn infantry reps on those things while you're at it ><

They didn't say that sticky grenades are the nerf that is incoming...I speculated this...

Anyway, I really think this is half the problem with tanks. So many people want to brawl with them, but compared to infantry they all have the BEST ranged damage by far. If tanks/vehicles want to be invincible for more than 10 seconds within proto-grenade throwing range that is a pipe-dream.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1211	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:48:00 - [61] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Changes to explosives look good... now if only you had followed that same logic before you took the nerf hammer 9000 to the cal logi suit Awhh, cant fit all complex shield extenders with a full rack of proto equipment to go with your proto weapon? Just saying... Its not assault... Yet it has more slots, CPU and PG than ANY assault variant. All at the expense of a sidearm, oh nos. If it were up to me Logis should only be able to use a sidearm, make them more focused on... oh, I dunno... Logistics? i don't even care anymore, they can run the logi class into the ground as far as im concerned. just give me back the 2.47 million SP i've wasted in that tree so I can go assault instead.
Fenix Alexarr BurgezzE.T.F 23	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:49:00 - [62] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: October SnowFox wrote: Why "Fused" gr only by AUR??? Because the kills are too easy. Everyone would use them and they'd be nerfed right away. It's ok the way it is. I don't see it as okay. I see it as a p2w since it's only available through AUR. I normally give CCP the benefit of the doubt, but this is without a doubt purchasing an advantage that is unavailable to those who play for free/cannot pay real money. Even if it is only meant for certain situations, the fact remains that it is an advantage in a situation that is not too uncommon. But hey, we have to pick and choose our battles, right?
Scottie MaCallan Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 36	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:49:00 - [63] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: They dont but when you have 90% of the direct damage being splash then theres a lot of room for error. yea I get that just wondering why Mintchip was using splash damage to justify the direct hit nerf. I mean I'm all for lowering the DPS of direct hits, they're totally still overpowered at the moment. Just saying that doing so by just changing the DPH is a little odd. like maybe lower direct hit damage a little, but then also lower RoF and give it a longer reload? nerf DPS and give skill shots more importance, if you miss the first, it takes longer to make up for it, but if you get direct hits it's awesome. I mean it could be a non-issue, we'll find out for sure soon. I've been spec'd into flaylock since it came out, I love using it as a finisher for my shotgun scout, and I'm not gonna stop using now, so we'll see what happens. I'm just gonna be sad if this nerf actually pushes me to spam more and aim less. If this means I need more hits to kill even after a flux or shotgun, then I might have to. I mean as a speed tanked scout, I can't just sit around and take my time, I have to kill fast & get out before I get hit. I'd rather spend the extra time to land a skill shot than spam 3 & get 1 or 2 direct hits + AoE from whatever misses.
Beyobi Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 107	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:50:00 - [64] - Quote Nice start, but its not enough. Flaylock CPU/pg needs to fall in line with other explosives and sidearms. Proto flaylock use 45cpu and only 2 pg. Why? Other proto sidearms use 8-10 pg, and let's not forget it is an explosive weapon. Locus grenades use 6 pg, remote explosives use 10 pg and mass drivers use 14 pg. Flaylocks naturally need more pg usage to be on par with other explosive/sidearm items. The new splash damage is still far too big for something called a 'micro missile', and still leaves too much room for error to be considered and precise shot. doubt any of this will actually happen, so good job CCP for continually ******* up. Just once I would like to see an update that doesn't require a fix or public apology, or botched market prices. Quality Control, do you have it?
Beren Hurin K-A-O-S theory 803	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:54:00 - [65] - Quote Fenix Alexarr wrote: "Remedy" for the murder taxis? Grenades sticking to the LAV and killing a driver isn't a remedy. It kills the idea of having a vehicle to rep other vehicles (or infantry for God's sake) since you can't go anywhere near enemy infantry. Let's not even talk about Scout LAV weaknesses in this department. If you want a remedy to Logi LAVs being too tough to kill, nerf low-skilled versions of them and reward high SP investment in them other than 'OMG, MOAR DAMAGE REDUCTION. As it stands, I feel no need to skill any higher into vehicles because of how good the lower SP Logi LAVs are. Maybe you could offer SOME form of protection for a driver other than 'plate, extenders, proto suit' as well. And maybe you could also fix the damn infantry reps on those things while you're at it >< They didn't say that sticky grenades are the nerf that is incoming...I speculated this... Anyway, I really think this is half the problem with tanks. So many people want to brawl with them, but compared to infantry they all have the BEST ranged damage by far. If tanks/vehicles want to be invincible for more than 10 seconds within proto-grenade throwing range that is a pipe-dream.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 344	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:56:00 - [66] - Quote Good news, i hate those fused locus and the flaylock spam, i hope the next nerf will be on the Mass Driver because i'm sure that you will see those graphs increasing from now to a month. People have to choose between a great damage or a large AoE, right now the mass driver at max skill offer both, i suggest to nerf the damage and leave the blast radius as is now. For the LAV i can say that after they are not free i see a lot less of them, but we need a free vehicle, the speders o at least a segway
J Lav Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 148	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:00:00 - [67] - Quote Flaylock looks perfect now, maybe a little higher direct damage would be in order, but the splash makes more sense now, without being useless. - in fact I might run one now!
Fenix Alexarr BurgezzE.T.F 23	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:01:00 - [68] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Fenix Alexarr wrote: "Remedy" for the murder taxis? Grenades sticking to the LAV and killing a driver isn't a remedy. It kills the idea of having a vehicle to rep other vehicles (or infantry for God's sake) since you can't go anywhere near enemy infantry. Let's not even talk about Scout LAV weaknesses in this department. If you want a remedy to Logi LAVs being too tough to kill, nerf low-skilled versions of them and reward high SP investment in them other than 'OMG, MOAR DAMAGE REDUCTION. As it stands, I feel no need to skill any higher into vehicles because of how good the lower SP Logi LAVs are. Maybe you could offer SOME form of protection for a driver other than 'plate, extenders, proto suit' as well. And maybe you could also fix the damn infantry reps on those things while you're at it >< They didn't say that sticky grenades are the nerf that is incoming...I speculated this... Anyway, I really think this is half the problem with tanks. So many people want to brawl with them, but compared to infantry they all have the BEST ranged damage by far. If tanks/vehicles want to be invincible for more than 10 seconds within proto-grenade throwing range that is a pipe-dream. You speculated that, but what else in this blog could possibly be a teaser for anything but that?
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 160	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:05:00 - [69] - Quote So yeah, overnerfing again. I think CCP needs to stop doing this to whatever the FOTM is. Because everything that's FOTM for one patch, becomes completely unusable the next. CCP should be nerfing things by like 5% at a time, rather than changing three to four stats on a weapon at once.
Absolon Gainne Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 36	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:08:00 - [70] - Quote Excellent changes, and as always please monitor the situation to ensure that Flaylocks haven't become underpowered because of the change to direct damage. I'm really looking forward to the LAV chains as well. Keep up the good work!

Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:16:00 - [71] - Quote I approve of the flaylock changes. However, as someone who bought a lot (literally 1000s stockpiled) of fused locus nades, the clip size change is ridiculous, bordering on sleazy bait-and-switch business tactics. A weapon that I paid real money for has now been nerfed into the ground- would you rather carry one 400 damage nade that explodes on contact, or THREE 400 damage nades that don't? 2:3 was a fair ratio, 1:3 is not. Fused locus grenades are now significantly worse than standard non-contact locus grenades. I would have welcomed a splash radius decrease, to bring the fused locus nades in line with the Thukker proto version (2.5m) or even down to new flaylock levels (1.5-2m). That would have be fair- it would significantly increase the skill required to use them effectively while not making them impotent. This clip size change won't quite have the desired effect, either- nanohives are extremely common even in pub matches, and I can still stand on top of one and spam 400 damage / 6m blast radius win buttons. CCP- don't punish me for spending AUR. A nerf to contact grenades, especially the fused locus grenade, is justified, but this is NOT the nerf you're looking for.
Cygnus Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 116	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:18:00 - [72] - Quote Looking forward to sticky grenades.
OSGR Valdez Contract Hunters 3	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:39:00 - [73] - Quote nice job guys! looking forward to sticky grenades!
Provolonee Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY 105	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:52:00 - [74] - Quote So we got some nerfs. Will there be any buffs? We know you have the data on some under used weapons. Can we see these graphs for all weapons? That would be a pretty nice chore for an intern or somebody who lost a bet perhaps. Without seeing them we are kind of looking at something out of context.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 868	Posted - 2013.07.23 18:59:00 - [75] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: I also liked the use of graphs in the blog showing the statistical evidence you had for seeing they were OP. Would it be possible to show us similar graphs for all the weapon types? I'd think the graph showed popularity. We can infer they were OP due to their popularity but I'd be interested in seeing the same period for AR kills. What I'd really be interested in is seeing a graph of all weapons with the amount of damage they put out.
Vin Mora Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises 68	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:01:00 - [76] - Quote October SnowFox wrote: Why AR have more skills? The SMG has the same number of skills; its to reduce the scatter of the weapon to increase its effective range by tightening the bullet spread. HMGs due this naturally, and most other weapons have no spread to speak of. October SnowFox wrote: Why other weapons still have stupid skills? like PG cost on FlayLock and charge time on ScR? For the most part most of the skills are good, or at least the intent is in the right place. The Flaylock PG reduction was there because every other weapon has similar skill (except for the Plasma Cannon), now it matches the Plasma Cannons fitting skill and reduces the CPU instead. The charge time is not a 'stupid' skill (you probably also think that reload skills are stupid, too) that reduction in charge time can make the difference between getting a kill or an assist, or living and dying. Sure, it doesn't work on the assault variants but that is intended.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 441	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:04:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Mintchip wrote: The Flaylock's direct dmg needed to come down a bit to keep in on par with other sidearms. With the splash damage added on, it was just too good at killing. This should hopefully allow for a more balanced weapon - while still having it's unique uses. now how about fixing these ARs to be inline with their purpose, because they are too good at killing, way better than the HMG
Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 314	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:08:00 - [78] - Quote While you're at it, could you perhaps bring the Flaylocks' Metalevels to be more inline with the other weapons?
JP Acuna ROYAL SQUAD Shadow of the Apocalypse 0	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:11:00 - [79] - Quote Fenix Alexarr wrote: JP Acuna wrote: October SnowFox wrote: Why "Fused" gr only by AUR??? Because the kills are too easy. Everyone would use them and they'd be nerfed right away. It's ok the way it is. I don't see it as okay. I see it as a p2w since it's only available through AUR. I normally give CCP the benefit of the doubt, but this is without a doubt purchasing an advantage that is unavailable to those who play for free/cannot pay real money. Even if it is only meant for certain situations, the fact remains that it is an advantage in a situation that is not too uncommon. But hey, we have to pick and choose our battles, right? Yeah, you're right but I think its nature demands some exclusivity and AUR is probably the best way. Even those who can pay for these grenades have to use them very sparsely, so i don't see it as a requisition which you have to pay for to win, it's just a luxury you may choose to pay for or not, it's not the greatest advantage either and it's a big risk for the wallet. I wouldn't pay for them myself, at least not at the moment. Fortunately i don't see them very often.
wripple WarRavens League of Infamy 7	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:20:00 - [80] - Quote Hehe, I foresee tears from Outer.Heaven, seriously the core flaylock is the only thing they use in PC and its been ripping our proto elites apart.

BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 839	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:30:00 - [81] - Quote Lol this is barely a nerf for the flaylock, the radius is still pretty high and the damage nerf is COMPLETELY negated by the fact it now has 8 shots instead of 3. On top of that it still has the same ROF and reload speed. Oh and the best counter to flaylocks just got nerfed... Welcome to hell Amarr and Gallente!
Asirius Medaius Planetary Response Organization 52	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:35:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Mintchip wrote: We've heard your concerns and we were a little shocked at the horse-head in our beds, but as per usual we are definitely doing something about it. As CCP Wolfman iterates in this new dev blog. You might be interested to read more about the changes we are making to the Flaylock Pistol, Contact Grenades and teaser into the remedy for the "murder taxis" Please leave your feedback down below! I literally skipped all the parts about the flaylock and the grenade balancing and tried to find your "teaser for the remedy" for the "murder taxi". You weren't kidding, it really was a teaser; There was not a damn word about any balancing of the "Murder Taxi" situation. Again, CCP withholds their possible solution from the Dust 514 community, and instead will probably apply it in a future update, and further f**k things up in this game. Again, nice "teaser".
Musta Tornius Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:43:00 - [83] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Lol this is barely a nerf for the flaylock, the radius is still pretty high and the damage nerf is COMPLETELY negated by the fact it now has 8 shots instead of 3. On top of that it still has the same ROF and reload speed. Oh and the best counter to flaylocks just got nerfed... Welcome to hell Amarr and Gallente! Are we so sure it's +1 to clip rather than ammo pool per level?
Musta Tornius Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 511	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:43:00 - [84] - Quote Asirius Medaius wrote: CCP Mintchip wrote: We've heard your concerns and we were a little shocked at the horse-head in our beds, but as per usual we are definitely doing something about it. As CCP Wolfman iterates in this new dev blog. You might be interested to read more about the changes we are making to the Flaylock Pistol, Contact Grenades and teaser into the remedy for the "murder taxis" Please leave your feedback down below! I literally skipped all the parts about the flaylock and the grenade balancing and tried to find your "teaser for the remedy" for the "murder taxi". You weren't kidding, it really was a teaser; There was not a damn word about any balancing of the "Murder Taxi" situation. Again, CCP withholds their possible solution from the Dust 514 community, and instead will probably apply it in a future update, and further f**k things up in this game. Again, nice "teaser". You used literally wrong. That's all I wanted to share with you. Enjoy.
Immovable 0bject DIOS EX. Top Men. 10	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:46:00 - [85] - Quote Sounds like some great changes. Keep it up CCP I'm really looking forward to the new changes.
Asirius Medaius Planetary Response Organization 55	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:56:00 - [86] - Quote Musta Tornius wrote: Asirius Medaius wrote: CCP Mintchip wrote: We've heard your concerns and we were a little shocked at the horse-head in our beds, but as per usual we are definitely doing something about it. As CCP Wolfman iterates in this new dev blog. You might be interested to read more about the changes we are making to the Flaylock Pistol, Contact Grenades and teaser into the remedy for the "murder taxis" Please leave your feedback down below! I literally skipped all the parts about the flaylock and the grenade balancing and tried to find your "teaser for the remedy" for the "murder taxi". You weren't kidding, it really was a teaser; There was not a damn word about any balancing of the "Murder Taxi" situation. Again, CCP withholds their possible solution from the Dust 514 community, and instead will probably apply it in a future update, and further f**k things up in this game. Again, nice "teaser". You used literally wrong. That's all I wanted to share with you. Enjoy. Nah, pretty sure you don't know what you are talking about; but I expect these kinds of situations.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2991	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:04:00 - [87] - Quote The amount of nades carried in ones pocket is still too much imo. A core locus nade does 600 dmg, and people can carry 3 of these. While I like the contact nades being nerfed to only 1 in your pocket, the regular locus nades need to be reduced as well. While it's more skillful to use, it can still be spammed with 1800 dmg in total dealt to an area WITHOUT the need of a hive.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers League of Infamy 1529	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:07:00 - [88] - Quote DAMIOS82 wrote: Now let me get this right, the contact grenade is suppose to explode on contact, but if it gets a fused time delay is it not just another Locus? and if you make it sticky, should you not call it a sticky grenade, instead of a contact grenade, since a contact grenade implies it explodes on contact, instead of sticking to a surface and exploding after so many seconds. Would it then not just be wiser to make a new grenade called sticky grenade and leave the contact as it is? Plus the contact grenade is just another flavor of the month, the more different explosives you's add, the more likely people will move on to different things. ATM all we have is 4 grenade types, why not just expand on them, afterall the more the better...... dude this is CCP we're talking about, that's too much logic for them to handle.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 243	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:09:00 - [89] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Scottie MaCallan wrote: I was under the impression AoE and direct damage could not be applied to the same target? They dont but when you have 90% of the direct damage being splash then theres a lot of room for error. But now it will take more shots to kill plus a reload They could have gone RoF, splash radius and splash damage - that would do what they intend. The more they do the dumber they look. Maybe they shouldnt put up these explanations. Its exposes their ineptitude more than clarify their intent. One thing it does (which I guess is what CCP wants) is make skilling the other skills more desirable. Optimization and Ammo look pretty good along with Proficiency to get back some of what was taken.
Pandora Mars Afterlife Overseers 137	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:33:00 - [90] - Quote Very nice. I disagree with people saying the Flaylock nerf is not enough. I hate the darn gun but still the fix seems sever enough to me. Well done!



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