DUST Search - 1 major reason Why Dust 514 isnt so successfull at the moment

2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:

SENATOR KODOS wrote:

2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:

SENATOR KODOS wrote:

2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:

personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular.

Right now dust has no competitive gaming.

Competitive gaming would mean removal of all SP.

That's not true at all it just means tournaments have to be set up to accommodate such factors. Having competitive play in a MMO is not impossible.

Your right they do it on Planeside but the games sheer numbers make up for SP imbalances.
Dust has small vs groups so SP would be a huge factor and if you know anything about comp play, they are very picky on everything that shows the slightest imbalance.

The game has to stand on its 2 feet at some point. Whether you bracket tournaments like you would weight classes in boxing or have unrestricted leagues really comes down to getting out there and testing testing testing testing the features until it works like it should as long as the testing is done responsibly.

Hiding from it is not gonna make it any better nor is it going to help take the game anywhere your always going to have growing pains. And i would rather have growing pains then being stagnant.

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Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 450	Posted - 2013.07.10 06:55:00 - [1] - Quote EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be.
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 450	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:00:00 - [2] - Quote I know for a fact that im not the only that thinks this way.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 85	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:04:00 - [3] - Quote F2P model has shown to be more profitable overall. You don't pay up front for a game but are more willing to make lots of smaller transactions. One time fees drive off players up front as they expect more from a game they "purchased." The fixes & content updates have little to do with money, CCP has plenty I assure you. More of a small team most likely.
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 450	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:07:00 - [4] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: F2P model has shown to be more profitable overall. You don't pay up front for a game but are more willing to make lots of smaller transactions. One time fees drive off players up front as they expect more from a game they "purchased." The fixes & content updates have little to do with money, CCP has plenty I assure you. More of a small team most likely. then how is that eve online has a much larger player base yet it has a subscription fee? im not really sure if its true that some of the eve online income has anything to do with dust 514 updates. but I do see your point
2-Ton Twenty-One Internal Error. League of Infamy 692	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:09:00 - [5] - Quote The current model needs tweaks but I feel long run its more sustainable then any other model. CCP has a ton of changes to make to their current model to maximize the player experience as well as earn profits. but the nice thing about a F2P model like this is that it gives devs a reason every day to improve the game and maximize long term profitability and player base.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 65	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:10:00 - [6] - Quote Void Echo wrote: I know for a fact that im not the only that thinks this way. No, you aren't. And it would also mean we didn't have Aurum crap forced down our throats. I'm not saying its pay to win, but its a major distraction for us, and even more I suspect the developers. How much time wasted trying to code and convince people to buy rubbish they don't need to keep the money flowing? I'd be happy to pay a monthly sub to avoid that, however its water under the bridge at this stage.
richiesutie 2 Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 115	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:23:00 - [7] - Quote I would definitely pay a 1 time fee for passive sp on my alts.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 303	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:27:00 - [8] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Worst. Idea. Ever.
2-Ton Twenty-One Internal Error. League of Infamy 692	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:28:00 - [9] - Quote personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular. Right now dust has no competitive gaming.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 303	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:31:00 - [10] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular. Right now dust has no competitive gaming. Competitive gaming would mean removal of all SP.

Kiro Justice The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 350	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:32:00 - [11] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: The current model needs tweaks but I feel long run its more sustainable then any other model. CCP has a ton of changes to make to their current model to maximize the player experience as well as earn profits. but the nice thing about a F2P model like this is that it gives devs a reason every day to improve the game and maximize long term profitability and player base. However can that be hybridized somehow with a optional sub base or a optional one time purchase? Sure I would not have a prob with that if it was done well. Slightly bad idea. Ever played DCUO? The game quickly became F2P but P2W, as they continued to release expansions with new abilities and more powerful weapons/trinkets. People who didn't pay for it or become legendary had no hope to keep up regardless of skill or experience, causing the game to be hopelessly P2W and bringing decimating the non-subscribed playerbase.
2-Ton Twenty-One Internal Error. League of Infamy 692	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:35:00 - [12] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: The current model needs tweaks but I feel long run its more sustainable then any other model. CCP has a ton of changes to make to their current model to maximize the player experience as well as earn profits. but the nice thing about a F2P model like this is that it gives devs a reason every day to improve the game and maximize long term profitability and player base. However can that be hybridized somehow with a optional sub base or a optional one time purchase? Sure I would not have a prob with that if it was done well. Slightly bad idea. Ever played DCUO? The game quickly became F2P but P2W, as they continued to release expansions with new abilities and more powerful weapons/trinkets. People who didn't pay for it or become legendary had no hope to keep up regardless of skill or experience, causing the game to be hopelessly P2W and bringing decimating the non-subscribed playerbase. So basically your argument is because someone did it wrong means it cannot be done right?
Django Quik R.I.f.t 900	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:36:00 - [13] - Quote Oh yay, another know-it-all who has no knowledge of the current state of the games industry. F2P can be a very profitable model and is especially suited to long-term style games. The one-off purchase model is only suited to short term games that only rely on getting enough money to produce the sequel. Think about it: you ask people to pay to buy Dust 514 and lots do but that is a finite amount of money. After a while that cashflow becomes a very small trickle, as you've already captured a large portion of your playerbase; then you have no more money to produce the next update, so you have to charge them again for more content and you p*ss everyone off because they thought they'd bought the full game but you lied to them and forced them to buy DLC. There are people who have (and continue to) spent hundreds on this game. Granted there are also people who have spent nothing but trust me there is no lack of cashflow that is stifling development. You are way off mark in thinking that this is the reason this game is not moire successful.
2-Ton Twenty-One Internal Error. League of Infamy 692	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:37:00 - [14] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular. Right now dust has no competitive gaming. Competitive gaming would mean removal of all SP. That's not true at all it just means tournaments have to be set up to accommodate such factors. Having competitive play in a MMO is not impossible.
Kiro Justice The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 350	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:38:00 - [15] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Kiro Justice wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: The current model needs tweaks but I feel long run its more sustainable then any other model. CCP has a ton of changes to make to their current model to maximize the player experience as well as earn profits. but the nice thing about a F2P model like this is that it gives devs a reason every day to improve the game and maximize long term profitability and player base. However can that be hybridized somehow with a optional sub base or a optional one time purchase? Sure I would not have a prob with that if it was done well. Slightly bad idea. Ever played DCUO? The game quickly became F2P but P2W, as they continued to release expansions with new abilities and more powerful weapons/trinkets. People who didn't pay for it or become legendary had no hope to keep up regardless of skill or experience, causing the game to be hopelessly P2W and bringing decimating the non-subscribed playerbase. So basically your argument is because someone did it wrong means it cannot be done right? That all depends on what these "Optionally Subscribed" players got for their money. If it was guns no one else has access to then HELL NO! But maybe a few active boosters a month, to insure they continued to play, and that they still have to work at their SP, then sure. I only said it was a slightly bad idea because the traditional cop-out is obvious and a quick road to P2W
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 304	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:40:00 - [16] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular. Right now dust has no competitive gaming. Competitive gaming would mean removal of all SP. That's not true at all it just means tournaments have to be set up to accommodate such factors. Having competitive play in a MMO is not impossible. Your right they do it on Planeside but the games sheer numbers make up for SP imbalances. Dust has small vs groups so SP would be a huge factor and if you know anything about comp play, they are very picky on everything that shows the slightest imbalance.
2-Ton Twenty-One Internal Error. League of Infamy 692	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:44:00 - [17] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: Kiro Justice wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: The current model needs tweaks but I feel long run its more sustainable then any other model. CCP has a ton of changes to make to their current model to maximize the player experience as well as earn profits. but the nice thing about a F2P model like this is that it gives devs a reason every day to improve the game and maximize long term profitability and player base. However can that be hybridized somehow with a optional sub base or a optional one time purchase? Sure I would not have a prob with that if it was done well. Slightly bad idea. Ever played DCUO? The game quickly became F2P but P2W, as they continued to release expansions with new abilities and more powerful weapons/trinkets. People who didn't pay for it or become legendary had no hope to keep up regardless of skill or experience, causing the game to be hopelessly P2W and bringing decimating the non-subscribed playerbase. So basically your argument is because someone did it wrong means it cannot be done right? That all depends on what these "Optionally Subscribed" players got for their money. If it was guns no one else has access to then HELL NO! But maybe a few active boosters a month, to insure they continued to play, and that they still have to work at their SP, then sure. I only said it was a slightly bad idea because the traditional cop-out is obvious and a quick road to P2W I agree it depends, I dont think either of us thinks that it cant be messed up, but if CCP is gonna cop out they will find a way to do it one way or another. Fearing them doing it inadvertently is the lest of our worries IMHO any company that ends up going down the P2W road dug its own grave, just because you gave them a tools and told them to build a new feature and they picked up the shovel and started digging is really counter intuitive to trying to improve game experience and long term profits. And the traditional Cop-out has really lost its appeal since a lot of those games are bleeding cash from they every thing they thought would make them tons of money as there playbase jumps ship.
Delenne Arran Ivory Hounds 40	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:48:00 - [18] - Quote Yeeeeah... no. Microtransactions are more profitable for a lot of games these days-- see: Every MMO not named World of Warcraft or EVE Online. Also, it's a really dumb plan to say "Yeah, this once-free game now costs money just to play." You can get away with that while you're still in beta, but if all your marketing prior to release is "Free to play, free to play, free to play," you have to stay free to play. In additon, seeing the full player count on the Tranquility server when logging in should put things in perspective. There are usually between 4 and 5 thousand players on DUST at any time, if things haven't changed too much since 1.2. There are usually only between 35,000 and 50,000 players in all of New Eden at once. This game's only been widely available for seven months and we're making up 10% of the players in a universe that's been around for 10 years. Besides all that, if I understand correctly, CCP siphons profits made in EVE to spend on DUST, so even IF booster and merc pack sales can't cover costs, they aren't hurting for money.
Skipper Jones ZionTCD 330	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:49:00 - [19] - Quote Where is the dislike button when you need it? Of the current player base, not everybody would pay $30 for this game. It's supposed to be F2P. Some of the players are 'I like the game, but I wouldn't pay for it. I'm glad it's free' You can't just advertise that it's free to play, brag about it being the first F2P FPS on the PS3, then 2 months after release, tell everybody "You have to pay $30 to continue playing!" That will be a bad business decision
2-Ton Twenty-One Internal Error. League of Infamy 692	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:49:00 - [20] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular. Right now dust has no competitive gaming. Competitive gaming would mean removal of all SP. That's not true at all it just means tournaments have to be set up to accommodate such factors. Having competitive play in a MMO is not impossible. Your right they do it on Planeside but the games sheer numbers make up for SP imbalances. Dust has small vs groups so SP would be a huge factor and if you know anything about comp play, they are very picky on everything that shows the slightest imbalance. The game has to stand on its 2 feet at some point. Whether you bracket tournaments like you would weight classes in boxing or have unrestricted leagues really comes down to getting out there and testing testing testing testing the features until it works like it should as long as the testing is done responsibly. Hiding from it is not gonna make it any better nor is it going to help take the game anywhere your always going to have growing pains. And i would rather have growing pains then being stagnant.

hooc order Deep Space Republic Top Men. 571	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:52:00 - [21] - Quote Why is it so hard for you fan boys to understand that Sony gave CCP the biggest exposure to a willing gamer base on the friggin planet and CCP screwed it up. 60 million gamers....and CCP can't even get 5000 of them to play their game at the same time.
Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 150	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:52:00 - [22] - Quote OP please, before you start asking for a business model change you'd like to notice the fact, that CCP has a lot of experience in the field and you have not seen the numbers. Your projection is way off and it's weird you'd think that CCP has not noticed this after running the game for a frakking year. While we know for a fact that they track literally everything in Dust. I, for one, would not pay for a subscription to DUST a year ago. I know this, because I tried Defiance and decided to not pay for the released game access, because it was IMHO not worth the monnies. But a year ago I got me a merc pack to get into closed beta of Dust. Then another one. Then the veteran pack and some AUR. Overall I dropped around EUR 100 on Dust and will spend more in future. This would not happen if there was initial fee to pay. This is how F2P works: line, hook, sinker. What I'm saying is that I would not accept the "one time subscription fee" for a ****** experience that Dust was a year ago (I'm way too biased to say what it is now :P), but I have no problem with getting goodies on my F2P game that I got hooked by. I treated my first merc pack as "demo access" to see if the game gives any hope. I liked it. I liked the idea that I don't have to spend any money. So then I decided that I'd like to spend more money. I am not the only one. I see people who bought Elite pack every day. Veteran pack Saga every second match. So please, OP, let CCP do their thing.
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 304	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:52:00 - [23] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: SENATOR KODOS wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: personally I would say dust is not successful right now for a large number of factors, one of which is because we have no pro league with cash prizes to drive people into the game who want to win money. If we had 1000 dollar tournaments or prize pools this game could start development on competitive gaming that makes games like this popular. Right now dust has no competitive gaming. Competitive gaming would mean removal of all SP. That's not true at all it just means tournaments have to be set up to accommodate such factors. Having competitive play in a MMO is not impossible. Your right they do it on Planeside but the games sheer numbers make up for SP imbalances. Dust has small vs groups so SP would be a huge factor and if you know anything about comp play, they are very picky on everything that shows the slightest imbalance. The game has to stand on its 2 feet at some point. Whether you bracket tournaments like you would weight classes in boxing or have unrestricted leagues really comes down to getting out there and testing testing testing testing the features until it works like it should as long as the testing is done responsibly. Hiding from it is not gonna make it any better nor is it going to help take the game anywhere your always going to have growing pains. And i would rather have growing pains then being stagnant. Honestly it boils down to this game not being good enough to warrant the effort.
Skipper Jones ZionTCD 330	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:54:00 - [24] - Quote hooc order wrote: Why is it so hard for you fan boys to understand that Sony gave CCP the biggest exposure to a willing gamer base on the friggin planet and CCP screwed it up. 60 million gamers....and CCP can't even get 5000 of them to play their game at the same time. Yeah... Their exposure was a tab on the top right and a tile on the PSN store. Why is it so hard for you haters to understand that your arguments are stupid?
SENATOR KODOS Absentee AFK Regiment 304	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:56:00 - [25] - Quote Skipper Jones wrote: hooc order wrote: Why is it so hard for you fan boys to understand that Sony gave CCP the biggest exposure to a willing gamer base on the friggin planet and CCP screwed it up. 60 million gamers....and CCP can't even get 5000 of them to play their game at the same time. Yeah... Their exposure was a tab on the top right and a tile on the PSN store. Why is it so hard for you haters to understand that your arguments are stupid? The cycle continues.....
Flaxon Jaxon Waxon Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.10 07:59:00 - [26] - Quote hooc order wrote: Why is it so hard for you fan boys to understand that Sony gave CCP the biggest exposure to a willing gamer base on the friggin planet and CCP screwed it up. 60 million gamers....and CCP can't even get 5000 of them to play their game at the same time. Well of those gamers you must take out The people who don't play FPS The people who don't go on to the PSN store The people who don't have enough memory to download from the PSN store The people who don't even play anymore The people who didn't notice the game on the store The people who don't play download anymore games The people who don't like to download games The people who don't like Dust 514. So of those 60 million people, Not all of them say this game is bad. #Dust514
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 451	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:05:00 - [27] - Quote SENATOR KODOS wrote: im ********
Kiro Justice The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 350	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:07:00 - [28] - Quote hooc order wrote: Why is it so hard for you fan boys to understand that Sony gave CCP the biggest exposure to a willing gamer base on the friggin planet and CCP screwed it up. 60 million gamers....and CCP can't even get 5000 of them to play their game at the same time. You have to remember, Hooc is a troll who's here for...No reason...Actually...He doesn't even know why he's here. Probably to get banned or something, I don't know.
Beld Errmon D3M3NT3D M1NDZ Orion Empire 705	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:10:00 - [29] - Quote Eve as a subscription game is successful for a number of reasons but personally i think the main reason is it fills a niche in MMOs that being that it is a space ship game set in a persistent universe, eve is heading towards micro transactions though and as much as the player base kicked and screamed about it, too stay competitive with all the MMOs going F2P eve will have to as well. It would be interesting to see what the Dust books look like, because while not everyone buys aurum many ppl do and out of those ppl who do there are some who spend hundreds.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 265	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:13:00 - [30] - Quote Its well known that the F2P model is more profitable than subscription games. IT HAVE BEEN PROVEN, and companies have CONFESS, that their profit margins went up when they switched from subscription to F2P... few examples ; - Star Wars; Knights of the Old Republic - The Lord of the Rings Online - Star Trek Online All those games started as subscription games, and the changed their model to F2P.. because their profit margins where to low... and all of them confessed, that F2P was working ALOT better for them. CCP is not fooling anyone .... SORRY.



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