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1 major reason Why Dust 514 isnt so successfull at the moment

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steadyhand amarr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 860	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:14:00 - [31] - Quote If we can ditch arumin exchange for a sub I would do that in a heart beat the free to play model just leads to sub par games end off iv not seen one good example where it worked well
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 451	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:16:00 - [32] - Quote all this thread was is a view at what could be a big part of the problem, seriously, to you guys that are insulting me for this thread, I don't see any of you coming up with ideas on how to get this game to be successful, seriously. you call me stupid for this yet you don't have the balls to come up with something yourselves? at least im TRYING to figure out ways to help instead of trashing every thread that could lead to something.
steadyhand amarr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 860	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:22:00 - [33] - Quote After reading some points in this thread I can see the F2P can work by having less players who pay a hell of lot more on the game :-o. Might be worth seeing the numbers but I still disagree with it as the game just works around selling you more things than selling you an experience
Kiro Justice The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 351	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:25:00 - [34] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: If we can ditch arumin exchange for a sub I would do that in a heart beat the free to play model just leads to sub par games end off iv not seen one good example where it worked well Blacklight Retribution League of Legends DoTA 2 Tera Online Team Fortress 2 Planetside 2 Tribes Ascend Neverwinter (The new PW one) WarFrame
Skipper Jones ZionTCD 331	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:32:00 - [35] - Quote Void Echo wrote: all this thread was is a view at what could be a big part of the problem, seriously, to you guys that are insulting me for this thread, I don't see any of you coming up with ideas on how to get this game to be successful, seriously. you call me stupid for this yet you don't have the balls to come up with something yourselves? at least im TRYING to figure out ways to help instead of trashing every thread that could lead to something. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1019133#post1019133 What was that?
steadyhand amarr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 860	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:43:00 - [36] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: If we can ditch arumin exchange for a sub I would do that in a heart beat the free to play model just leads to sub par games end off iv not seen one good example where it worked well Blacklight Retribution League of Legends DoTA 2 Tera Online Team Fortress 2 Planetside 2 Tribes Ascend Neverwinter (The new PW one) WarFrame All that highlights is that I really really need a pc lol. Also tf2 don't count that started out b2p it only went free as a experiment
Django Quik R.I.f.t 900	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:46:00 - [37] - Quote Void Echo wrote: all this thread was is a view at what could be a big part of the problem, seriously, to you guys that are insulting me for this thread, I don't see any of you coming up with ideas on how to get this game to be successful, seriously. you call me stupid for this yet you don't have the balls to come up with something yourselves? at least im TRYING to figure out ways to help instead of trashing every thread that could lead to something. The problem is not the business model; it's the state of the game. You mention how successful Eve Online is - did you know how tiny the playerbase was on that in the first year or so? Less than Dust right now. It was an absolute mess of a game and simply bad but the reason it is now so successful is that CCP kept at it for years, listened to their playerbase and made it better gradually. Dust 514 is still in its infancy and has a long long way to go - you've got to think about the long-game with this one. It's not like your boxed games that you buy off the high street. Making the game better will make it more successful - there is no problem with the business side of things - there is nothing I can add to this conversation to offer a solution to your problem because you've diagnosed the problem wrong.
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 452	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:50:00 - [38] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Void Echo wrote: all this thread was is a view at what could be a big part of the problem, seriously, to you guys that are insulting me for this thread, I don't see any of you coming up with ideas on how to get this game to be successful, seriously. you call me stupid for this yet you don't have the balls to come up with something yourselves? at least im TRYING to figure out ways to help instead of trashing every thread that could lead to something. The problem is not the business model; it's the state of the game. You mention how successful Eve Online is - did you know how tiny the playerbase was on that in the first year or so? Less than Dust right now. It was an absolute mess of a game and simply bad but the reason it is now so successful is that CCP kept at it for years, listened to their playerbase and made it better gradually. Dust 514 is still in its infancy and has a long long way to go - you've got to think about the long-game with this one. It's not like your boxed games that you buy off the high street. Making the game better will make it more successful - there is no problem with the business side of things - there is nothing I can add to this conversation to offer a solution to your problem because you've diagnosed the problem wrong. you and nobody else has to be an ass about, I respond to hostility with hostility
Cosgar ParagonX 2583	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:50:00 - [39] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: If we can ditch arumin exchange for a sub I would do that in a heart beat the free to play model just leads to sub par games end off iv not seen one good example where it worked well Same here, but they'd have to revert the gameplay back to Replication (minus the OP missiles) with Chrome's hit detection, and Uprising's content.
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 452	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:51:00 - [40] - Quote Skipper Jones wrote: Void Echo wrote: all this thread was is a view at what could be a big part of the problem, seriously, to you guys that are insulting me for this thread, I don't see any of you coming up with ideas on how to get this game to be successful, seriously. you call me stupid for this yet you don't have the balls to come up with something yourselves? at least im TRYING to figure out ways to help instead of trashing every thread that could lead to something. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1019133#post1019133 What was that? were you one of the people that were insulting me over this thread

dday3six Intrepidus XI EoN. 71	Posted - 2013.07.10 08:53:00 - [41] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: F2P model has shown to be more profitable overall. You don't pay up front for a game but are more willing to make lots of smaller transactions. One time fees drive off players up front as they expect more from a game they "purchased." The fixes & content updates have little to do with money, CCP has plenty I assure you. More of a small team most likely. then how is that eve online has a much larger player base yet it has a subscription fee? im not really sure if its true that some of the eve online income has anything to do with dust 514 updates. but I do see your point Eve is older for one. It's had a lot longer to gather players. It also stood and still in a way stands alone for the genre. Dust on the other hand has a lot of competition. Like it or not, Dust is just a lobby shooter at the moment. The overly grindy RPG elements don't change that. This means that every other lobby shooter is in a way competition for Dust until it's able to grow into a boarder gaming expierence. At present if Dust suddenly switched over to a sub-based game, it would drastically cut the playerbase. In fact it would probably mean the end. 514 has potential don't get me wrong, but it's really hard to get players to fork over a fee to wait for potential to reach fruition.
Skipper Jones ZionTCD 331	Posted - 2013.07.10 09:12:00 - [42] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Skipper Jones wrote: Void Echo wrote: all this thread was is a view at what could be a big part of the problem, seriously, to you guys that are insulting me for this thread, I don't see any of you coming up with ideas on how to get this game to be successful, seriously. you call me stupid for this yet you don't have the balls to come up with something yourselves? at least im TRYING to figure out ways to help instead of trashing every thread that could lead to something. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1019133#post1019133 What was that? were you one of the people that were insulting me over this thread No, I was proving to you that you aren't the only one in this thread that has came up with ideas. I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything, but my idea was a lot better than yours
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 289	Posted - 2013.07.10 09:15:00 - [43] - Quote CCP has never clued that budget is the issue. Giving them more money doesn't mean that FPS knowledge will descend upon them. If they wanted a subscription based system, why not go with XBox and their droves of people that think it's okay to subscribe to your own internet usage and other bad ideas.
EKH0 0ne Knights of No Republic 179	Posted - 2013.07.10 09:27:00 - [44] - Quote Void Echo wrote: EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be. Bro STFU Im starting to think you work at CCP or theyre paying you
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 452	Posted - 2013.07.10 09:31:00 - [45] - Quote EKH0 0ne wrote: Void Echo wrote: EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be. Bro STFU Im starting to think you work for CCP Dude, GFY, idiot. if I worked for CCP, then vehicles wouldn't be in the position they are now dumbass
Kiro Justice The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 357	Posted - 2013.07.10 09:32:00 - [46] - Quote Cosgar wrote: with Chrome's hit detection I honestly don't see a problem with hitting things. Like ever. I only see a few people still complaining about it since 1.2 hit.
2100 Angels The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 166	Posted - 2013.07.10 09:55:00 - [47] - Quote Void Echo wrote: EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be. "This other game did it so they should do it for this one it is tha best" has to be one of the worst methods of evaluating a business model I've ever seen. Eve is successful as a subscription game because of a number of variables, including the fact that it's on PC and its mature player base. Dust is not Eve. They each have different requirements, and there are a couple of reasons a single up front payment for a game like dust wouldnt work: 1) Traditionally, games with an upfront payment are completed prior to release. This means that there is a discrete break even point and set of profit objectives. This is not feasible with a game constantly under development as purchases are one-off and not on a regular basis making accounting practices and measuring success extremely difficult. 2) When development costs are ongoing and there is a fixed fee, a certain dependence is developed on bringing new players in rather than keeping current players satisfied. This is not good for customer service or long term profitability. The subscription model, while it caters quite well to the development cycle in both dust and eve, is not suitable for the console arena. Like you've just shown all of us, players in the console market are too used to the idea of a one off purchase that being required to pay money every month to play their game is well left of center, making it that much more likely to flop, and also completely ignore the advantages provided by the psn network over the xbox network. This would work against the game by creating the feeling in the user that they're spending more money to play this than they could on other games - which lets not kid ourselves, would do dust absolutely no favors. Subscription models obviously well accepted in the PC gaming world and which is why it works so well for Eve. Providing a free to play game, however, allows people who would not otherwise have bought the game to try it before investing any time or effort into it, which will attract a wide array of people otherwise not captured, as well as catering to its core player base. The cash shop has been shown to be more profitable over time, and provides a foundation for ongoing development. This was actually an ingenious move by CCP, so it might be worth your while taking some sort of business education before criticizing CCPs business strategy.
hooc order Deep Space Republic Top Men. 573	Posted - 2013.07.10 10:34:00 - [48] - Quote Kiro Justice wrote: Cosgar wrote: with Chrome's hit detection I honestly don't see a problem with hitting things. Like ever. I only see a few people still complaining about it since 1.2 hit. Go under the bridge and get in a fire fight. Weird stuff happens down there...but yeah hit detection is still very much a problem. Under the bridge it seems to happen to me a lot...but it still happens every where as well just to a lesser extent. If anything 1.2 makes it more noticeable with the higher frame rates.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 107	Posted - 2013.07.10 10:38:00 - [49] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: F2P model has shown to be more profitable overall. You don't pay up front for a game but are more willing to make lots of smaller transactions. One time fees drive off players up front as they expect more from a game they "purchased." The fixes & content updates have little to do with money, CCP has plenty I assure you. More of a small team most likely. then how is that eve online has a much larger player base yet it has a subscription fee? im not really sure if its true that some of the eve online income has anything to do with dust 514 updates. but I do see your point its been out for ten years
Void Echo Internal Error. League of Infamy 455	Posted - 2013.07.10 10:40:00 - [50] - Quote obviously this thread is irrelevant now. please let it die or something

Takahiro Kashuken Red STar. EoN. 643	Posted - 2013.07.10 11:46:00 - [51] - Quote With god knows how many merc packs i have bought i have well paid over a small price for a game As for a one time pay i wouldnt do it i would add in a subscription model also The sub could be something small like 5 quid a month for example but it would have to make sure its not pay to win so generally any items you get would be vanity items for your tank or dropsuit and maybe every 4month you get a merc pack because you paid the equivelent in money for one anyways but i dunno
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 688	Posted - 2013.07.10 11:48:00 - [52] - Quote Warframe is free to play. It seems pretty succesful. A good idea is to add a monthly pack that costs $10, in this backs comes 1x 30 day active booster and 1x 30 day passive booster.
EKH0 0ne Knights of No Republic 179	Posted - 2013.07.10 12:17:00 - [53] - Quote Void Echo wrote: EKH0 0ne wrote: Void Echo wrote: EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be. Bro STFU Im starting to think you work for CCP Dude, GFY, idiot. if I worked for CCP, then vehicles wouldn't be in the position they are now dumbass You mad bro?
Rei Shepard Spectre II 392	Posted - 2013.07.10 12:35:00 - [54] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: F2P model has shown to be more profitable overall. You don't pay up front for a game but are more willing to make lots of smaller transactions. One time fees drive off players up front as they expect more from a game they "purchased." The fixes & content updates have little to do with money, CCP has plenty I assure you. More of a small team most likely. *then how is that eve online has a much larger player base yet it has a subscription fee?* im not really sure if its true that some of the eve online income has anything to do with dust 514 updates. but I do see your point you answered your own question about why it has a larger playerbase, its been building its base for over 10 years now, Dust has how long now,+- 6 ish months since its gone live ? One thing to note, there are no succesfull Space MMO's out there so being the only one cuts down on sharing customers, FPS games on the other hand theres 30 in the bargain bin at the corner of Awsome & Games.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 615	Posted - 2013.07.10 12:56:00 - [55] - Quote Void Echo wrote: EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be. The major reason DUST isn't successful atm is passive sp for time-in-match. It's an amaturish mechanic and that wrecks the new player experience and telegraphs very quickly to reviewers.
Phantomnom Internal Error. League of Infamy 638	Posted - 2013.07.10 13:50:00 - [56] - Quote Dust 514? More like Work 925.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 846	Posted - 2013.07.10 14:01:00 - [57] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: F2P model has shown to be more profitable overall. You don't pay up front for a game but are more willing to make lots of smaller transactions. One time fees drive off players up front as they expect more from a game they "purchased." The fixes & content updates have little to do with money, CCP has plenty I assure you. More of a small team most likely. then how is that eve online has a much larger player base yet it has a subscription fee? im not really sure if its true that some of the eve online income has anything to do with dust 514 updates. but I do see your point EVE Online - been here 10 years, has good, interesting, (in some ways) gameplay DUST 514 - been open to public about 6 months, has crappy, boring gameplay. There you go.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 846	Posted - 2013.07.10 14:10:00 - [58] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Void Echo wrote: EVE Online is a subscription game and look at how it is the most successful mmo on pc and has lasted for 10 years in the gamer universe, it has constant updates, ranging from adding new features to fixing the known bugs and problems of the game. Dust 514 is NOT a subscription game and therefore has no steady income of money to be used for improvements, all it has is aurum and that's not really worth the pennies unless your getting passive and active boosters. I am NOT saying that Dust 514 has to be a subscription game, that would make things worse for the player base, the best thing to happen would be a one time fee to play the game. Like buying a cd game your going to play on the playstation 3 or whatever console you have, those companies make profit from selling their games at $60 for the 1st few months then lowering the price to keep revenue coming in and thus having the funds to create the next game that will be better than their previous production. If there was a one time fee to play Dust 514 at $29.99-$49.99 and the current player base size of a little over 4000, CCP would be making a little over $200,000 every 4000 players, thus giving them the funds they need to improve gameplay, mechanics, bug fixed, glitch patches, add new items to the game, and so on. I understand that this is free to play, but look at what has resulted in that choice, im not saying to make this game subscription based, just put in a ONE TIME payment to play this game and CCP will have the funds they NEED to make this game better. The price for it would be up to CCP because it is their game, but it will not work if its over $60. this would be the 1s step towards making Dust 514 the game it is meant to be. The major reason DUST isn't successful atm is passive sp for time-in-match. It's an amaturish mechanic and that wrecks the new player experience and telegraphs very quickly to reviewers. Please tell me your joking. That is a problem I agree, but its not the be all end all reason people don't want to play DUST, its because the game is frusturating, broken in some spots, hoghly unpolished, and just gets boring very quickly I can tell you for a fact that that type of reason is one you think up after having played this game for a while. I barely play, but when I get on I play a match or two, feel complete boredom and annoyance set in, and leave. Thats whats turning off new players, not an obscure game mechanic. Sorry for double post.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 836	Posted - 2013.07.10 14:12:00 - [59] - Quote I think the real question is... would this game be more successful if it was on the PC? (assuming they could find a way to deal with hackers)
Paran Tadec Internal Error. League of Infamy 1168	Posted - 2013.07.10 14:46:00 - [60] - Quote Here's the reason: No one loves to grind. Increase the amount of SP earned while capped, increase passive SP and introduce the SP rollover for active SP. With the current amount of skills in the game, it'd take something like 13 years to max them all out. Now, if I wanted to max just 1/4th of them out, its take about 3-4 years. Snooze.



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