| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1123
   |
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
League of Infamy
385
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of.
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP likes the ARs.
We have known this for a long time.
Swap the damn TAR and ScR ranges.
Fixed. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1127
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range.
|
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Even the assault scrambler is worse than the standard AR at range, due to higher kick when scoped (i.e. the exact situation where a scrambler is meant to be better than an AR) |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range.
We could go back and forth over the relative merits of the scram vs the TAC, but the glaring difference is the max/optimal range discrepancy. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1129
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range.
We could go back and forth over the relative merits of the scram vs the TAC, but the glaring difference is the max/optimal range discrepancy.
Ergo, the topic at hand...  |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
As I said before, swap the damn ranges.
The ARs still have their exobanent range for their balls of sun, and the ScR has the range to counter the AR Rambos |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
569
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 02:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
It does seem odd doesn't it? Esp since laser weaponry is supposed to have a longer range than blaster weaponry.
The tac could still be quite powerful if they lowered the optimal to the same as the charged scrambler and raised the RoF a bit (~25-30%). Increasing clip size to 22 for GLU and 30 for the DTAR, and then lowering its damage ~15%. It just becomes a similarly ranged semi auto variant of the Gallente AR.
With the tactical rail rifle taking the position of the current TAR. Very high range, low RoF, high damage. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 03:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:It does seem odd doesn't it? Esp since laser weaponry is supposed to have a longer range than blaster weaponry.
The tac could still be quite powerful if they lowered the optimal to the same as the charged scrambler and raised the RoF a bit (~25-30%). Increasing clip size to 22 for GLU and 30 for the DTAR, and then lowering its damage ~15%. It just becomes a similarly ranged semi auto variant of the Gallente AR.
With the tactical rail rifle taking the position of the current TAR. Very high range, low RoF, high damage.
It's gonna have slightly higher breach damage and it's ROF, but as high, maybe even higher range |
|
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1129
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 04:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
That's the theory, but they have a blaster with higher range than the equivalent scrambler. The tactical rail rifle might wind up with SMG range. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
30
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 04:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:That's the theory, but they have a blaster with higher range than the equivalent scrambler. The tactical rail rifle might wind up with SMG range.
Highly doubt that, but okay. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1129
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 04:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:That's the theory, but they have a blaster with higher range than the equivalent scrambler. The tactical rail rifle might wind up with SMG range. Highly doubt that, but okay.
It was hyperbole. The point is their range specs are already off from what they've suggested.
Across weapons of the same type, with respect to range, Rail > Laser > Projectile > Blaster
That's what they say. However, with the exact same weapon type now, the 2nd highest range tech is out-ranged by the lowest range tech. In EVE, the Pulse Laser would always have a 4x advantage on Blasters with respect to range. They don't need to stick to that, but they're not even sticking to "Laser is higher range than Blaster". So, clearly they're not adhering to even the simple system they've suggested. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries
Alpha Wolf Pack
32
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 04:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:That's the theory, but they have a blaster with higher range than the equivalent scrambler. The tactical rail rifle might wind up with SMG range. Highly doubt that, but okay. It was hyperbole. The point is their range specs are already off from what they've suggested. Across weapons of the same type, with respect to range, Rail > Laser > Projectile > Blaster That's what they say. However, with the exact same weapon type now, the 2nd highest range tech is out-ranged by the lowest range tech. In EVE, the Pulse Laser would always have a 4x advantage on Blasters with respect to range. They don't need to stick to that, but they're not even sticking to "Laser is higher range than Blaster". So, clearly they're not adhering to even the simple system they've suggested.
Actually, the actual list is Rail Rifle>Laser Rifle>Scrambler RIfle>Combat Rifle>Plasma Rifle. Say the right terms. Oh, and projectiles refer to both autocannons and arty's, and the Mass driver isn't a rifle..... Anyways, yes, they derped out on it, but I'm sure they'll fix it (read: get rid of TAC and Burst PR's) |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 05:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
For purpose of balance, the lasers have to have more range because the simple Standard ScR lacks the DPS of the AR without the range it needs.
But maybe the planets we are fighting on have dense atmospheres and the lasers light beam refracts quickly.
But the lore should never fully dictate the gameplay.
Then we would have projectile space guns, as the gun oil will either freeze up, causing the gun to not work, or the oil to boil away as the searing heat boils the oil away, causing the weapon the weap to malfunction and break. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1130
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 07:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:For purpose of balance, the lasers have to have more range because the simple Standard ScR lacks the DPS of the AR without the range it needs.
But maybe the planets we are fighting on have dense atmospheres and the lasers light beam refracts quickly.
But the lore should never fully dictate the gameplay.
Then we would have projectile space guns, as the gun oil will either freeze up, causing the gun to not work, or the oil to boil away as the searing heat boils the oil away, causing the weapon the weap to malfunction and break.
If the Amarr developed great cooling systems for lasers, they should probably work better in an atmosphere as opposed to space, as radiation is the only means of cooling in a vacuum and is inefficient compared to conduction or convection.
The lore shouldn't fully dictate the gameplay, and that much was clear from the outset. The ratio is nothing like 4-1 for even a beam laser and a tactical plasma blaster. However, some effort should be made to have it at least resemble the same universe, I mean... "One universe" is kinda the tagline of the game.
|
madd greazy
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
87
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 07:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range.
you can't charge your TAR while under cover and snap out quickly for a 700dmg headshot either... |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1130
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 07:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
madd greazy wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range. you can't charge your TAR while under cover and snap out quickly for a 700dmg headshot either...
And the TAR won't overheat and kill you when you're low on hp. Taking follow-up shots is going to be a lot easier without the overheat issues that follow charge shots as well.
Those trade-offs are separate from the range issue. They've outright stated that the Amarr Scrambler is the standard for the Tactical Rifle that other races may emulate with their own variants (like the TAR). They've also stated blasters are the shortest range tech, while Scramblers are longer range than both them and the minmatar projectile rifle.
It doesn't make sense to have a knock-off rifle made with shorter-range tech be longer than the prototypical rifle of that type. |
madd greazy
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
87
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 07:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
railguns were made from conventional projectile technology research and they out range combustion fired projectiles |
madd greazy
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
87
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 07:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
just saying |
|
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1130
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 07:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
madd greazy wrote:railguns were made from conventional projectile technology research and they out range combustion fired projectiles
I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you making a real-world comparison? Because railguns as they exist today wouldn't be handheld.
I shortened things for brevity in some posts, but I mentioned elsewhere that railguns outrange lasers (by CCP's metric as well).
The pecking order range-wise in EVE is:
Railgun (hybrid) > Artillery (projectile) > Beam (laser) > Pulse (laser) > Autocannon (projectile) > Blaster (hybrid)
The titles like "projectile" are EVE conventions, despite the fact a Railgun is presumably accelerating a projectile as well. The greater point here is that a Pulse Laser Tech weapon (Scrambler Rifle) that is meant to be the default variant of "Tactical" rifle is a much longer range tech than Blaster Tech (AR) and also longer than Autocannon (Min. Combat Rifle). It should outrange a knock-off long-range rifle made with plasma blaster tech.
By the same token, you'd expect the Beam laser rifle to outrange the Pulse Scrambler, and a railgun to outrange the Scrambler as well (as the Sniper Rifle does). When the railgun variant of a tactical rifle is created, it having somewhat longer range than the Scrambler would be less weird, though presumably you'd want to account for other drawbacks there. I'd assume fire-rate will be a big one, and possibly capacity. |
Cat Merc
Oculus Felis
1683
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 08:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of.
Because that's a trade off.
Our fire rate is capped at 400RPM and have terrible hip fire, and a really really tiny clip, but we get more range.
You get a tight hip fire, 700+ RPM, a huge clip, but less range and overheat so you won't spam the R1 button. (Because that's the TAR before the nerf in a nutshell) |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1130
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 08:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
The overheat mechanic, lack of sharpshooter skill, higher required light weapon op, and specialized damage type are elements/drawbacks involved in using the scrambler. The blaster is supposed to be the high-damage short-range weapon, it should beat the an assault scrambler, for example, at short ranges. The Scrambler is supposed to be the tactical rifle, and the tech type is longer range than plasma blasters.
If the gallente designed a knock-off tactical rifle to give their rifle line a longer range tactical option, it should be longer range than their standard blasters, sure. However, it: A. Shouldn't out-range a superior-range tech type, and B. Shouldn't out-range the rifle type that's intended to be the model/standard for the long-range tactical rifle.
If the Scrambler is "better" than the TAR, it should be, because the Tactical is supposed to be what the Scrambler is good at, and that definitely includes range. If the Assault Scrambler is better than the AR at short range, it shouldn't be, because high-damage at short-range is supposed to be what the Blaster rifle is tops at. |
Imp Smash
Seraphim Auxiliaries
CRONOS.
146
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 10:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
Honestly I'm cool with the range on SRs I'd they fix the dispersion issue. AR skills can make it pinpoint accurate - but no skills make the SRs shoot strait. If the SR won't have the range it should at least have accuracy as it is NOT a cqc weapon yeah? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1130
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 11:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Honestly I'm cool with the range on SRs I'd they fix the dispersion issue. AR skills can make it pinpoint accurate - but no skills make the SRs shoot strait. If the SR won't have the range it should at least have accuracy as it is NOT a cqc weapon yeah?
I'd assume the laser would be more accurate than the blaster by default. However, I'm mostly ok with the assault scrambler being more... scattered than an AR, because the AR is suppsoed to be better at the assault variant. The range is sticking point for me, in lore, logic, and practicality. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 18:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:For purpose of balance, the lasers have to have more range because the simple Standard ScR lacks the DPS of the AR without the range it needs.
But maybe the planets we are fighting on have dense atmospheres and the lasers light beam refracts quickly.
But the lore should never fully dictate the gameplay.
Then we would have projectile space guns, as the gun oil will either freeze up, causing the gun to not work, or the oil to boil away as the searing heat boils the oil away, causing the weapon the weap to malfunction and break. If the Amarr developed great cooling systems for lasers, they should probably work better in an atmosphere as opposed to space, as radiation is the only means of cooling in a vacuum and is inefficient compared to conduction or convection. The lore shouldn't fully dictate the gameplay, and that much was clear from the outset. The ratio is nothing like 4-1 for even a beam laser and a tactical plasma blaster. However, some effort should be made to have it at least resemble the same universe, I mean... "One universe" is kinda the tagline of the game.
I mean the range of the ScR because the beam is refracted by the air, causing the range to be different.
But again, lore doesn't dictate gameplay |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
137
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 19:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Zeylon Rho is explaining it the same way Remnant did so I too dont understand why the changes werent made.
Once again - silence from CCP on the subject; Remnant (or at least a disciple ie some intern / assistant) should keep a stickied thread so we know whats what with the weapons. It can be dev posts only but at least we will know what is working as intended and why things are the way they are. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
43
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 06:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
I thinking adjusting the range to make sense within their own universe makes sense. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1142
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:I thinking adjusting the range to make sense within their own universe makes sense.
Thanks. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4716
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
I wondered the same thing, its pretty ridiculous. |
|
|
KING CHECKMATE
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
League of Infamy
185
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 04:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:[quote=Zeylon Rho]
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
If it was so easy to do you would be using Scrambler rifles,cough, almost everybody......Dont act like it doesnt require skill.
|
Galthur
CrimeWave Syndicate
103
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 05:33:00 -
[32] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:Even the assault scrambler is worse than the standard AR at range, due to higher kick when scoped (i.e. the exact situation where a scrambler is meant to be better than an AR)
The TAR needs a nerf in range but no, how it works is every race has their weapon gallente = AR, amaar = SCR that they excel in while ripping off the other races weapon in a worse fashion (how it often ends out) ASCR/TAR, you want to compare the normal AR to the SCR |
Cyrille Fodeux
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 05:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of.
The ASR is better than the AR though. They should add the Rail Rifle and the Combat Rifle and remove all variants until the normal rifles are balanced. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1144
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 06:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cyrille Fodeux wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of. The ASR is better than the AR though. They should add the Rail Rifle and the Combat Rifle and remove all variants until the normal rifles are balanced.
The AR is more accurate, but it may be that adjustments need to be made either way. The point is, at no point should the "blaster"'s long range be better than the "pulse laser's" long range option.
It's like if they made two models of car, a race-car and an off-road vehicle, but they made it so the off-road was also the fastest. Because F'you, that's why. It doesn't make sense.
The AR should be the best short range-high damage rifle, and it's possible the ASCR needs tweaking of it's own. There are other issues here (like the Scrambler Passive not doing anything for the assault version). I've also heard the heat build on Scramblers is per-second instead of per-shot, which makes for some possible balance issues. If that were altered, it's heat build might get higher much quicker, and a heat reduction passive would make even more sense at that point. |
Cyrille Fodeux
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 06:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Cyrille Fodeux wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of. The ASR is better than the AR though. They should add the Rail Rifle and the Combat Rifle and remove all variants until the normal rifles are balanced. The AR is more accurate, but it may be that adjustments need to be made either way. The point is, at no point should the "blaster"'s long range be better than the "pulse laser's" long range option. It's like if they made two models of car, a race-car and an off-road vehicle, but they made it so the off-road was also the fastest. Because F'you, that's why. It doesn't make sense. The AR should be the best short range-high damage rifle, and it's possible the ASCR needs tweaking of it's own. There are other issues here (like the Scrambler Passive not doing anything for the assault version). I've also heard the heat build on Scramblers is per-second instead of per-shot, which makes for some possible balance issues. If that were altered, it's heat build might get higher much quicker, and a heat reduction passive would make even more sense at that point.
Yes. The heat build up on ASRs should be higher too. It can fire a whole clip without overheating.
If the heat build up was per shot more people would use the charge mode. Now you charge up once and your halfway overheated. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1144
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 06:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
As I understand it, someone demonstrated that with a programmable mouse, you could get it to do X shots (the standard SCR) within a certain number of seconds, and the number of shots as long as you were hitting the button didn't change when you would overheat.
So, you could hit some theoreticaly cap of X shots within some threshold, and it showed that the gun was metering heat build on a per-second basis (as if it were the Laser Rifle basically, or it stole that exact mechanic from it) instead of per shot. Charge shots can be held, and obviously have to work differently, which is why they have a more unique impact on heat build.
Per-second on the assault maybe how they envisioned it, I don't know. But you can definitely hold it down and not really worry about overheating, regardless of being Amarr or not. Managing heat would be a nerf to it perhaps, but it's possible that might be a fair balancing measure. Any heat reduction added as the scrambler passive would need to balanced mostly as-is, because you don't get the scrambler till pretty late on Scrambler Operation. They might want to add a lower-level version of the ASCR while they're at it.
This is separate from the OP topic of the range difference of course, but it does tie into my (and some other topics) about the Assault Scrambler not being impacted by the Scrambler passive bonus to "charge time". |
Jen Gelfling
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 10:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
You type too much. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
45
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 06:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
It seems odd that the range is so far skewed still even RIGHT after they "fixed" ranges. Blaster hackjob = longer range than the pulse laser weapon that's made specifically for range? How did that make sense even AFTER they were fixing ranges? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1257
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 03:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:It seems odd that the range is so far skewed still even RIGHT after they "fixed" ranges. Blaster hackjob = longer range than the pulse laser weapon that's made specifically for range? How did that make sense even AFTER they were fixing ranges?
The fact it's like this after a fix is part of what concerns me I guess. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
56
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 07:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Longest range blaster rifle = longer range than longest range pulse laser? It makes no sense. |
|
|
Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 12:54:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:Longest range blaster rifle = longer range than longest range pulse laser? It makes no sense.
I'm sure they have a reasonable explanation...
/s |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
461
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 13:06:00 -
[42] - Quote
I still fail to comprehend why they gave kick to a laser weapon. IT SHOOTS LIGHT. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
88
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 06:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
I fail to comprehend why a long-range weapon would have less ability to put rounds down range compared to the allegedly-short ranged assault rifle.
It's okay if you miss more often if you can just hold the trigger down and spray... |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1696
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 08:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
I dont think that the TAC needs another nerf. Its more likely that the scrambler rifle needs a buff in terms of range. Apart from that both weapons are balanced cause the TAC has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip while the scrambler has the overheat function to prevent you from abusing it. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1315
|
Posted - 2013.07.15 12:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Swapping the ranges seems reasonable. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
57
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 10:51:00 -
[46] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Swapping the ranges seems reasonable.
That amounts to a buff/nerf I guess, but it makes sense. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
2509
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 13:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
As someone who specced into the Scrambler Rifle hoping for a longer-range alternative to Gallente ARs, I'm really not seeing how any other racial AR is ever going to be useful with how the Gallente ones are being balanced right now.
Looks like we'll have the RPers using racial guns while all the rest of us just roll Gallente.
Funny thing is how their ARs are the best but their suits are terrible thanks to lolarmor. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
200
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of.
You sir are mistaken, the rail rifle and combat rifle have yet to be released and so although the TAC AR is not accurately reflecting the scrambler rifle it is not meant to. BTW in response to your request for more range I say buff my TAC AR ROF to 500 so my gun stops jamming. |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
719
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 15:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of. You sir are mistaken, the rail rifle and combat rifle have yet to be released and so although the TAC AR is not accurately reflecting the scrambler rifle it is not meant to. BTW in response to your request for more range I say buff my TAC AR ROF to 500 so my gun stops jamming. Use the basic SCR variant. It has pre nerf tac RoF, less kick and since lasers are higher range than blasters it's got more r-... oh wait.
I hate the perceived jamming of my tac aswell but if there is one weapon that doesn't need a 25% DPS buff, paired with better CQC capabilities, then it's the TAR and the higher range seems off to me even though i still use it mostly because of it. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
rise of legion
95
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 00:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
I like how this discussion is continuing. Uprising 1.3 is slated to have a lot of balancing; hopefully some tweaks like this will sneak in as well. |
|
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1339
|
Posted - 2013.07.20 16:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:I like how this discussion is continuing. Uprising 1.3 is slated to have a lot of balancing; hopefully some tweaks like this will sneak in as well.
I think they could probably do this with a hotfix, 1.3's contents are supposedly already "fixed" because it was submitted a long time ago now. That means they already know what's coming, it's just a trickly of knowledge as far as what will actually be changed (Amarr suit changes, etc.). |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
59
|
Posted - 2013.07.22 19:37:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:I like how this discussion is continuing. Uprising 1.3 is slated to have a lot of balancing; hopefully some tweaks like this will sneak in as well. I think they could probably do this with a hotfix, 1.3's contents are supposedly already "fixed" because it was submitted a long time ago now. That means they already know what's coming, it's just a trickly of knowledge as far as what will actually be changed (Amarr suit changes, etc.).
No weapon changes in 1.3? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1365
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 05:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:SponkSponkSponk wrote:I like how this discussion is continuing. Uprising 1.3 is slated to have a lot of balancing; hopefully some tweaks like this will sneak in as well. I think they could probably do this with a hotfix, 1.3's contents are supposedly already "fixed" because it was submitted a long time ago now. That means they already know what's coming, it's just a trickly of knowledge as far as what will actually be changed (Amarr suit changes, etc.). No weapon changes in 1.3?
Flaylock and Grenade changes apparently, not scrambler range. |
Jen Gelfling
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.07.27 05:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
These seems more ironic in context of them announcing their vision for how the weapons compare, and having weapons blatant ignore the distinctions (TAR vs. Scrambler) in the same post. They really loathe the Amarr. Or love the AR. Or both. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1394
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 16:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Jen Gelfling wrote:These seems more ironic in context of them announcing their vision for how the weapons compare, and having weapons blatant ignore the distinctions (TAR vs. Scrambler) in the same post. They really loathe the Amarr. Or love the AR. Or both.
Their vision is off elsewhere as well I guess. I just flog the issues I know. |
Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 06:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:I dont think that the TAC needs another nerf. Its more likely that the scrambler rifle needs a buff in terms of range. Apart from that both weapons are balanced cause the TAC has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip while the scrambler has the overheat function to prevent you from abusing it.
I think swapping the ranges is reasonable. The Scrambler is supposedly the default "tactical" rifle, and it uses longer range tech. The TAR outranging it is sense-less. The perk of picking ARs as a spec is that your assault (regular Duvolle) variant should be the best damage within that range class. That's "niche" and peak for blaster tech - short range dominance.
The gun that apes the role of another spec should be inferior in some respects to that, otherwise you get the "AR IS BEST AT ALL" business. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
126
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 07:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
I would even be okay with both of them having the longer range. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1413
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 08:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:I would even be okay with both of them having the longer range.
Well, I'm primarily concerned with the fact that the blaster OUTRANGES the pulse laser. While I'd prefer the reverse were true, just... for logic's sake, I don't know that I really care if the pulse laser has the same huge range gap the TAR currently enjoys. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
178
|
Posted - 2013.07.30 19:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
It's always nice to see how CCP has this very firm vision of what Dust 514 is supposed to be like.
And then it's disheartening to see that the game as it is being played on the servers right now runs directly against that vision.
This is even more true since they demonstrated before that they con hotfix this type of thing. But then for some reason they choose to ignore this bit. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1420
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 05:01:00 -
[60] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:It's always nice to see how CCP has this very firm vision of what Dust 514 is supposed to be like.
And then it's disheartening to see that the game as it is being played on the servers right now runs directly against that vision.
This is even more true since they demonstrated before that they con hotfix this type of thing. But then for some reason they choose to ignore this bit.
I try not to get too bitter in these sorts of "ongoing issue" threads, but it is frustrating to see the imbalances perpetuated AFTER a range adjustment. |
|
|
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
126
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 07:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Shanghai needs a lesson on iteration from CCP Reykjavik. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 11:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dehlia Metii wrote:The dark cloud wrote:I dont think that the TAC needs another nerf. Its more likely that the scrambler rifle needs a buff in terms of range. Apart from that both weapons are balanced cause the TAC has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip while the scrambler has the overheat function to prevent you from abusing it. I think swapping the ranges is reasonable. The Scrambler is supposedly the default "tactical" rifle, and it uses longer range tech. The TAR outranging it is sense-less. The perk of picking ARs as a spec is that your assault (regular Duvolle) variant should be the best damage within that range class. That's "niche" and peak for blaster tech - short range dominance. The gun that apes the role of another spec should be inferior in some respects to that, otherwise you get the "AR IS BEST AT ALL" business.
Well honestly at the currents state CCP has failed horribly withe the mimic weapons especially in the AR tree none of the mimic weapons there fills the roles described in the weapons range Devblog. |
Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.31 21:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Dehlia Metii wrote:The dark cloud wrote:I dont think that the TAC needs another nerf. Its more likely that the scrambler rifle needs a buff in terms of range. Apart from that both weapons are balanced cause the TAC has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip while the scrambler has the overheat function to prevent you from abusing it. I think swapping the ranges is reasonable. The Scrambler is supposedly the default "tactical" rifle, and it uses longer range tech. The TAR outranging it is sense-less. The perk of picking ARs as a spec is that your assault (regular Duvolle) variant should be the best damage within that range class. That's "niche" and peak for blaster tech - short range dominance. The gun that apes the role of another spec should be inferior in some respects to that, otherwise you get the "AR IS BEST AT ALL" business. Well honestly at the currents state CCP has failed horribly withe the mimic weapons especially in the AR tree none of the mimic weapons there fills the roles described in the weapons range Devblog.
Facts can be inconvenient. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1452
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 04:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
I'm wondering if the AR models (Burst/Breach) will be adjusted in some way after the other two rifles are released. Right now, the TAR is still superior in range to the Scrambler. If the Burst is better than the Combat Rifle, what then? I'd ask about the Rail being worse than the Breach, but I don't think that's possible. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
135
|
Posted - 2013.08.01 21:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:I'm wondering if the AR models (Burst/Breach) will be adjusted in some way after the other two rifles are released. Right now, the TAR is still superior in range to the Scrambler. If the Burst is better than the Combat Rifle, what then? I'd ask about the Rail being worse than the Breach, but I don't think that's possible.
It doesn't matter if they can't get this one right. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1770
|
Posted - 2013.08.07 06:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I'm wondering if the AR models (Burst/Breach) will be adjusted in some way after the other two rifles are released. Right now, the TAR is still superior in range to the Scrambler. If the Burst is better than the Combat Rifle, what then? I'd ask about the Rail being worse than the Breach, but I don't think that's possible. It doesn't matter if they can't get this one right.
I dunno, things feel lost-causy with respect to the Scrambler Rifle differences these days. |
Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 07:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1840
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 22:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dehlia Metii wrote:Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think.
Some, I think there's was something in the Feedback/Bug threads about addressing Laser Rifles in a balancing pass in 1.5... which I guess would be October... maybe? |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1406
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 22:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Dehlia Metii wrote:Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think. Some, I think there's was something in the Feedback/Bug threads about addressing Laser Rifles in a balancing pass in 1.5... which I guess would be October... maybe?
It's once a month for the first six months, IIRC. so we'll have 1.5in september and 1.6 in october. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1874
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 21:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Dehlia Metii wrote:Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think. Some, I think there's was something in the Feedback/Bug threads about addressing Laser Rifles in a balancing pass in 1.5... which I guess would be October... maybe? It's once a month for the first six months, IIRC. so we'll have 1.5in september and 1.6 in october.
I thought we'd see 1.4 at the beginning of Sept because 1.3 was basically end of July (and could've been beginning of August according to them). So, I was +1 monthing from there to come up with 1.5 = beginning of October, etc. |
|
|
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1496
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 21:39:00 -
[71] - Quote
Just wait for Tactical Scrambler Rifle. It would be really F'd up if the TAR didn't outrange ANY Scrambler rifles. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
115
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 22:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Just wait for Tactical Scrambler Rifle. It would be really F'd up if the TAR didn't outrange ANY Scrambler rifles.
Isn't that what hr normal scrambler is supposed to be? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1874
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 22:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Just wait for Tactical Scrambler Rifle. It would be really F'd up if the TAR didn't outrange ANY Scrambler rifles.
It should outrange the Assault, Burst, and Breach... the standard Scrambler IS the tactical rifle of the Amarr... that's what makes all of this so stupid. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe.
League of Infamy
515
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 23:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
I believe that currently the TAR is acting as a placeholder for the rail rifle and will have its stats altered once said weapon is in game. I believe I saw a post somewhere stating this was true of many of the AR vairents (though now I'll need to look for it  )
I belive the thinking went something like this:
Standard AR = place holder for the battle rifle
Breach AR = will be come the new range model for blaster AR's
TAR = place holder for the rail rifle.
Now I could be wrong, as I said, I haven't looked up that previous post but I seem to remember this being the case. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1875
|
Posted - 2013.08.16 23:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:I believe that currently the TAR is acting as a placeholder for the rail rifle and will have its stats altered once said weapon is in game. I believe I saw a post somewhere stating this was true of many of the AR vairents (though now I'll need to look for it ) I belive the thinking went something like this: Standard AR = place holder for the battle rifle Breach AR = will be come the new range model for blaster AR's TAR = place holder for the rail rifle. Now I could be wrong, as I said, I haven't looked up that previous post but I seem to remember this being the case.
Not exactly.
Gallente Plasma = Standard AR (other three are knock-offs of other races)
Amarr Scrambler = Tactical Rifle (Other three are knock-offs, assault is meant to ape the Gallente Assault)
Caldari Rail Rifle = Breach Rifle (which is the short range Gallente rifle... but rail is the longest range tech... I don't get it either, but it's what they said)
Minmatar Combat rifle = Burst Rifle (with another three knock-offs...)
The issue at hand with this post is that the Amarr Scrambler is laser tech and is the "BASE" for tactical rifles, but it shorter range than the shortest range tech in-game. This is stupid. This is very stupid. The only tactical variant that might logically outrange the Amarr Scrambler is the rail rifle (because of the tech), but even then the rail rifle tactical isn't meant to be the main variant.
In the future, I'm curious how some they reconcile the variants with completely separate weapons. The Sniper Rifle is also a rail rifle of sorts, but obviously not in the combat-sense that a rail rifle will be intended I would think. We've also heard of the Minmatar precision rifle, which sounds a lot like a sniper rifle, right? Or a DMR? How will that be different enough from a "tactical" combat rifle to justify skilling into an entirely different weapon tree?
|
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
213
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 01:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
IMO, each race gets a long- and short- ranged weapon.
caldari: rail + sniper (no real short-ranged weapon)
amarr: scram + LR
minmatar: combat + precision
gallente: shotgun + AR (no real long-ranged weapon) |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1876
|
Posted - 2013.08.17 04:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:IMO, each race gets a long- and short- ranged weapon.
caldari: rail + sniper (no real short-ranged weapon)
amarr: scram + LR
minmatar: combat + precision
gallente: shotgun + AR (no real long-ranged weapon)
It's fine if they get alternate weapons, but the "Racial rifle + variants that mimic the other race's rifle" is what they've explicitly said will be in place.
I mean, it was in the forums, it's been in a dev blog, and this post:
Quote:Quote:Etero Narciss wrote: Quote:CCP Remnant wrote:
We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:
Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range
Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range
Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range
Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range
Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons
A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time. I have a question about the bolded part: So when the remaining two do release, will the two relevant Assault variants be removed? They won't be removed, no, but they will be tweaked slightly. The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault, (Gallente) Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on.
I'm pointing out that the 2nd longest range tech long-range battle rifle in the game is out-ranged by the lowest-range tech's long-range battle rifle. That is wrong. That is messed up, and it needs to be fixed for the sake of having any sort of coherent tech differences. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 11:26:00 -
[78] - Quote
It's nice to have posts with numbers. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1964
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 06:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:It's nice to have posts with numbers.
I suspect the 1.4 patch notes, for good or for ill, will be out pretty shortly if the event is going to be running through it. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate
Dark Taboo
66
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 14:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range.
Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of.
Because the Scrambler rifle is a Variant of the Amar infantry arsenal due to its stronger damage against shields (20%) and its secondary fire functionality which is difficult to do but rewarding. Because of these functionalities for the weapon Its optimal and max is limited. Assault rifles right now have 10% for armor and shields but gains a longer range. Also the laser rifle is also a Amarian weapon which has longer range than the tactical with similar damage output against shields.
I know I know Assault Rifle operation levels gets more than the Scrambler Rifles operation levels, but Scrambler Rifle is the choice when shield tankers are within optimal range. And Laser rifle is the weapon of choice when in mid-long range battles. |
|
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2024
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 08:03:00 -
[81] - Quote
I'm not really sure what you're suggesting, or why the AR (inferior range-tech) tactical version (knock-off of Amarr version, not main tactical rifle) should outrange the Scrambler. The laser rifle doesn't really enter into it, as it's not within the racial rifle paradigm (combat/rail/blaster/scrambler) that we've described (and they've described) earlier. The TAR has a range advantage on the laser rifle because of fall-off as well anyway. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
121
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 18:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
Wanna know sonething funny? Elm laser rifle vs mlt ar::
Elm gets steady 10% increase every 10 meters, until 90 which tops at 120% to shield. 91m goes to 12.
Meanwhile the mlt ar still does 26% damage at 91m, and continues onwards to 110 i believe. Imagine the scrambler rifle?
I do believe it starts out at 25% for lr |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1546
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 18:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ok I tested the scrambler rifle and I can tell you some very potent advantages:
No Kick: Shooting the Tac AR is a chore because it kicks like a mule. Scrambler rifle is so much easier to hit with.
Large Clip: SCR clip has got the Tac AR by the balls. With no kick, it's semi auto hell fire.
Charge Shot Function: The Charge shot brings a lot more damage to your shot. I initially thought that charging used more ammunition but it does not. It just adds heat. I OHK'ed some fool from full health from a good 45-50 meters.
I can tell you that heat = kick in relation to control. Overheat deals damage and siezes your weapon. This is the chief con I have recognized. But when you use the TAR, you have to control your pace or you won't hit a thing at all. The SCR has a much more consistent accuracy that really beats the TAR. Again it has heat but all weapons need some sort of "management feature" to prevent you from going overboard with the weapon.
Now about TAR range. It seems to have the SCR beat, but I can tell you that it would take so much more skill to beat the SCR at TAR range. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
782
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 19:16:00 -
[84] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range.
Clip size and hipfire capability of the ScR make it more viable in a greater number of situations. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
782
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 19:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range. Clip size and hipfire capability of the ScR make it more viable in a greater number of situations.
Also, TOTALLY not coming from an AR user by the way. I *TOTALLY* don't use a Glu-5 on an M/1 lite every day. I *TOTALLY* am unbiased...
... moving right along.
PS The only thing you ScR users have to complain about is heat on non-amarr assaults ... and the fact that your weapon looks like a fish. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1549
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 20:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:
PS The only thing you ScR users have to complain about is heat on non-amarr assaults ... and the fact that your weapon looks like a fish.
When You charge it up it totally doesn't look like a fish
It looks like a hungry squid shooting lightning out its maw. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
673
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 21:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
I like how a laser weapon can't shoot as far as plasma.
Good job CCP |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
789
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 22:22:00 -
[88] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I like how a laser weapon can't shoot as far as plasma.
Good job CCP
It's all like "buzzzzzzzzzzzz" but we were all like "Pew! Pew!" then someone was like "GrrrrzzzzzzzITT!!!" and so we lost. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
5541
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ranges should be switched |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1445
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 14:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:
It's all like "buzzzzzzzzzzzz" but we were all like "Pew! Pew!" then someone was like "GrrrrzzzzzzzITT!!!" and so we lost.
This was the most beautiful thing I've ever read. You have the soul of a poet. |
|
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2119
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 09:53:00 -
[91] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Ranges should be switched
This is a fine solution in my mind. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
102
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 10:19:00 -
[92] - Quote
I think CCP should get rid of the mimic weapons at least unless all racial variants of that weapon are in. They totally messed up with the current versions and variations of weapons.
There is no clear characteristic on any of the weapon technologies it just seems they put randomly things in for any weapon.
And none of the existing weapons really fullfills the roles described in the Devblog regarding range profiles... |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2141
|
Posted - 2013.08.27 11:17:00 -
[93] - Quote
They could just fix it so it matches the theory on the Dev Blog/in-universe/etc. The Scrambler is not a conceptually horrible weapon or anything like that, but there's a definite mismatch between their intent on the relative supremacy of tech and the value of the knock-off weapons. |
Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1314
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 17:17:00 -
[94] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1239676#post1239676
HUAH!!!!!! |
Spectre-M
The Generals
EoN.
45
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 17:56:00 -
[95] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1239676#post1239676
HUAH!!!!!!
Success! Thank you for the link, Beren. Seems we'll have proper range on this spectacular weapon. Im very excited about 1.4 and 1.5 and hope it will make this game what its supposed to be. Look out AR users (me, although now a Scr user) we will have range to peel some wigs before you get close. I cant wait for the QQ threads when this weapon gets its long overdue range balance. The'll be complaining that it has the range of a sniper rifle! |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
26
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 22:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
The SCR should at least have the same range as the TAR if asking for more is too much at least make it equal.I feel the ASCR is perfectly balanced with the AR tbh, if anything changes with one of them, the other should change in a similar manner. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
Test Friends Please Ignore
256
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 00:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
just tone down the brightness of wen the scrambler is fired first....
reason why ar is better..
it doesnt have a blinding muzzle flash.. |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
607
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 01:57:00 -
[98] - Quote
As the TAR was first (by several releases) how could it be mimicking the the Scrambler Rifle?
|
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2215
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 02:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:As the TAR was first (by several releases) how could it be mimicking the the Scrambler Rifle?
You can look back if you like, but the gist of it is the dev blog and posts describing weapon types say as much.
Each race has a "rifle" as it were, and each race's rifle is meant to be the "standard" of that rifle type. The variants of the assault rifle were an attempt to test and introduce these types to the game, with every race eventually having their "standard" rifle with variants that attempt to copy the attributes of the other races' rifles. The idea being in part to have the same flexibility within a given weapon type, but also that the "knock-offs" would carry attributes of that race but not be as adept in that given role.
Those are:
Gallente: Assault
Minmatar: Burst
Amarr: Tactical
Caldari: Breach
The Gallente would therefore have the best "assault" type of rifle, but their variants would not be as strong as the model rifle from the other races. The knock-offs would also carry traits of their racial tech (in this case, blaster), or short-range high-damage. |
Jathniel
G I A N T
EoN.
810
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 08:35:00 -
[100] - Quote
The TAR has deeper zoom too.
Let's put an acog sight on the gun that's supposed to have lower range, and a reflex sight on the gun with higher range. |
|
|
Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet
Top Men.
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:56:00 -
[101] - Quote
If the TAR and the SR have their ranges switched it would make the TAR useless. The extra range is currently all the TAR has going for it. Might as well take it out completely then.
Seriously, giving the TAR SC's range makes it a direct competitor to the AR, and we all know how that will end. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2329
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:07:00 -
[102] - Quote
Fist Groinpunch wrote:If the TAR and the SR have their ranges switched it would make the TAR useless. The extra range is currently all the TAR has going for it. Might as well take it out completely then.
Seriously, giving the TAR SC's range makes it a direct competitor to the AR, and we all know how that will end.
Every tech type will have a tactical rifle that apes the function of the Scrambler (the racial tactical). The TAR is the shortest range tech, and blasters are meant for high damage at short range.
The future of the game given that will have a tactical combat rifle and a tactical rail rifle as well. Both of those AND the scrambler will outrange the TAR because plasma is the shortest range tech. Meanwhile, changes should assure that at shorter range within its optimal, the Duvolle AR will do better damage than the Assault Combat Rifle, Assault Rail Rifle, or Assault Scrambler.
That's where the game is supposed to be. The TAR is supposed to be suboptimal.
|
Fist Groinpunch
Goonfeet
Top Men.
45
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
Supposed to be, not supposed to be, if the TAR's range is decreased while keeping everything else constant, it ceases to be a competitive weapon. That is all. |
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |