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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
126
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Posted - 2013.07.31 07:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Shanghai needs a lesson on iteration from CCP Reykjavik. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
74
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Posted - 2013.07.31 11:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dehlia Metii wrote:The dark cloud wrote:I dont think that the TAC needs another nerf. Its more likely that the scrambler rifle needs a buff in terms of range. Apart from that both weapons are balanced cause the TAC has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip while the scrambler has the overheat function to prevent you from abusing it. I think swapping the ranges is reasonable. The Scrambler is supposedly the default "tactical" rifle, and it uses longer range tech. The TAR outranging it is sense-less. The perk of picking ARs as a spec is that your assault (regular Duvolle) variant should be the best damage within that range class. That's "niche" and peak for blaster tech - short range dominance. The gun that apes the role of another spec should be inferior in some respects to that, otherwise you get the "AR IS BEST AT ALL" business.
Well honestly at the currents state CCP has failed horribly withe the mimic weapons especially in the AR tree none of the mimic weapons there fills the roles described in the weapons range Devblog. |
Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
22
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Posted - 2013.07.31 21:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Dehlia Metii wrote:The dark cloud wrote:I dont think that the TAC needs another nerf. Its more likely that the scrambler rifle needs a buff in terms of range. Apart from that both weapons are balanced cause the TAC has a slower rate of fire and a smaller clip while the scrambler has the overheat function to prevent you from abusing it. I think swapping the ranges is reasonable. The Scrambler is supposedly the default "tactical" rifle, and it uses longer range tech. The TAR outranging it is sense-less. The perk of picking ARs as a spec is that your assault (regular Duvolle) variant should be the best damage within that range class. That's "niche" and peak for blaster tech - short range dominance. The gun that apes the role of another spec should be inferior in some respects to that, otherwise you get the "AR IS BEST AT ALL" business. Well honestly at the currents state CCP has failed horribly withe the mimic weapons especially in the AR tree none of the mimic weapons there fills the roles described in the weapons range Devblog.
Facts can be inconvenient. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1452
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Posted - 2013.08.01 04:39:00 -
[64] - Quote
I'm wondering if the AR models (Burst/Breach) will be adjusted in some way after the other two rifles are released. Right now, the TAR is still superior in range to the Scrambler. If the Burst is better than the Combat Rifle, what then? I'd ask about the Rail being worse than the Breach, but I don't think that's possible. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
135
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Posted - 2013.08.01 21:24:00 -
[65] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:I'm wondering if the AR models (Burst/Breach) will be adjusted in some way after the other two rifles are released. Right now, the TAR is still superior in range to the Scrambler. If the Burst is better than the Combat Rifle, what then? I'd ask about the Rail being worse than the Breach, but I don't think that's possible.
It doesn't matter if they can't get this one right. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1770
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Posted - 2013.08.07 06:33:00 -
[66] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I'm wondering if the AR models (Burst/Breach) will be adjusted in some way after the other two rifles are released. Right now, the TAR is still superior in range to the Scrambler. If the Burst is better than the Combat Rifle, what then? I'd ask about the Rail being worse than the Breach, but I don't think that's possible. It doesn't matter if they can't get this one right.
I dunno, things feel lost-causy with respect to the Scrambler Rifle differences these days. |
Dehlia Metii
not in a corporation
55
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Posted - 2013.08.08 07:19:00 -
[67] - Quote
Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1840
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Posted - 2013.08.13 22:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
Dehlia Metii wrote:Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think.
Some, I think there's was something in the Feedback/Bug threads about addressing Laser Rifles in a balancing pass in 1.5... which I guess would be October... maybe? |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1406
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Posted - 2013.08.13 22:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Dehlia Metii wrote:Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think. Some, I think there's was something in the Feedback/Bug threads about addressing Laser Rifles in a balancing pass in 1.5... which I guess would be October... maybe?
It's once a month for the first six months, IIRC. so we'll have 1.5in september and 1.6 in october. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1874
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Posted - 2013.08.16 21:24:00 -
[70] - Quote
Talos Alomar wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:Dehlia Metii wrote:Infantry-based stuff in 1.4 I think. Some, I think there's was something in the Feedback/Bug threads about addressing Laser Rifles in a balancing pass in 1.5... which I guess would be October... maybe? It's once a month for the first six months, IIRC. so we'll have 1.5in september and 1.6 in october.
I thought we'd see 1.4 at the beginning of Sept because 1.3 was basically end of July (and could've been beginning of August according to them). So, I was +1 monthing from there to come up with 1.5 = beginning of October, etc. |
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Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1496
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Posted - 2013.08.16 21:39:00 -
[71] - Quote
Just wait for Tactical Scrambler Rifle. It would be really F'd up if the TAR didn't outrange ANY Scrambler rifles. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
115
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Posted - 2013.08.16 22:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Just wait for Tactical Scrambler Rifle. It would be really F'd up if the TAR didn't outrange ANY Scrambler rifles. Isn't that what hr normal scrambler is supposed to be? |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1874
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Posted - 2013.08.16 22:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Just wait for Tactical Scrambler Rifle. It would be really F'd up if the TAR didn't outrange ANY Scrambler rifles.
It should outrange the Assault, Burst, and Breach... the standard Scrambler IS the tactical rifle of the Amarr... that's what makes all of this so stupid. |
Mobius Kaethis
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
515
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Posted - 2013.08.16 23:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
I believe that currently the TAR is acting as a placeholder for the rail rifle and will have its stats altered once said weapon is in game. I believe I saw a post somewhere stating this was true of many of the AR vairents (though now I'll need to look for it )
I belive the thinking went something like this: Standard AR = place holder for the battle rifle Breach AR = will be come the new range model for blaster AR's TAR = place holder for the rail rifle.
Now I could be wrong, as I said, I haven't looked up that previous post but I seem to remember this being the case. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1875
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Posted - 2013.08.16 23:39:00 -
[75] - Quote
Mobius Kaethis wrote:I believe that currently the TAR is acting as a placeholder for the rail rifle and will have its stats altered once said weapon is in game. I believe I saw a post somewhere stating this was true of many of the AR vairents (though now I'll need to look for it ) I belive the thinking went something like this: Standard AR = place holder for the battle rifle Breach AR = will be come the new range model for blaster AR's TAR = place holder for the rail rifle. Now I could be wrong, as I said, I haven't looked up that previous post but I seem to remember this being the case.
Not exactly.
Gallente Plasma = Standard AR (other three are knock-offs of other races) Amarr Scrambler = Tactical Rifle (Other three are knock-offs, assault is meant to ape the Gallente Assault) Caldari Rail Rifle = Breach Rifle (which is the short range Gallente rifle... but rail is the longest range tech... I don't get it either, but it's what they said) Minmatar Combat rifle = Burst Rifle (with another three knock-offs...)
The issue at hand with this post is that the Amarr Scrambler is laser tech and is the "BASE" for tactical rifles, but it shorter range than the shortest range tech in-game. This is stupid. This is very stupid. The only tactical variant that might logically outrange the Amarr Scrambler is the rail rifle (because of the tech), but even then the rail rifle tactical isn't meant to be the main variant.
In the future, I'm curious how some they reconcile the variants with completely separate weapons. The Sniper Rifle is also a rail rifle of sorts, but obviously not in the combat-sense that a rail rifle will be intended I would think. We've also heard of the Minmatar precision rifle, which sounds a lot like a sniper rifle, right? Or a DMR? How will that be different enough from a "tactical" combat rifle to justify skilling into an entirely different weapon tree?
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SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
213
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Posted - 2013.08.17 01:52:00 -
[76] - Quote
IMO, each race gets a long- and short- ranged weapon.
caldari: rail + sniper (no real short-ranged weapon) amarr: scram + LR minmatar: combat + precision gallente: shotgun + AR (no real long-ranged weapon) |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1876
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Posted - 2013.08.17 04:41:00 -
[77] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:IMO, each race gets a long- and short- ranged weapon.
caldari: rail + sniper (no real short-ranged weapon) amarr: scram + LR minmatar: combat + precision gallente: shotgun + AR (no real long-ranged weapon)
It's fine if they get alternate weapons, but the "Racial rifle + variants that mimic the other race's rifle" is what they've explicitly said will be in place.
I mean, it was in the forums, it's been in a dev blog, and this post:
Quote:Quote:Etero Narciss wrote: Quote:CCP Remnant wrote: We'll be making some adjustments to the rifle ranges in the near future. We're currently testing the Rail Rifle and Combat Rifle internally (the two missing archetypes). Within the assault rifle class the four weapon types will break down as follows:
Assault Rifle (Hybrid - Plasma) - short range Combat Rifle (Projectile - Autocannon) - short-mid range Scrambler Rifle (Laser - Pulse) - mid range Rail Rifle (Hybrid - Railgun) - long range
Keep in mind though that long range for an assault rifle is not equivalent to long range for a sniper rifle, so while they will adhere to existing category definitions don't expect massive differences in the distances between these weapons A lot of the original assault rifle variants (Breach, Burst, Tactical) were created to fill the gaps these newer weapons will fill and so mightGÇÖve felt out of place (not to mention we just plain made mistakes with some of them). The scrambler rifleGÇÖs optimal range will be increased and weGÇÖll be releasing an iteration of the Tactical Assault Rifle with a smaller clip and much wider hip-fire spread making it less effective in CQC. If that change alone does not prove enough we will walk the damage of the TAR down slowly. No big, sweeping changes this time. I have a question about the bolded part: So when the remaining two do release, will the two relevant Assault variants be removed? They won't be removed, no, but they will be tweaked slightly. The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault, (Gallente) Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on.
I'm pointing out that the 2nd longest range tech long-range battle rifle in the game is out-ranged by the lowest-range tech's long-range battle rifle. That is wrong. That is messed up, and it needs to be fixed for the sake of having any sort of coherent tech differences. |
Kelrie Nae'bre
not in a corporation
141
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Posted - 2013.08.20 11:26:00 -
[78] - Quote
It's nice to have posts with numbers. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1964
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Posted - 2013.08.21 06:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:It's nice to have posts with numbers.
I suspect the 1.4 patch notes, for good or for ill, will be out pretty shortly if the event is going to be running through it. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
66
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Posted - 2013.08.21 14:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:...then why does the blaster-tech mimic-gun/knock-off have better optimal and max range than the actual scrambler (pulse laser)? You apparently adjusted the Scrambler Rifle range in this last patch, but you left the range advantage squarely with the "shortest range" tech.
Duvolle-TAR: 65 optimal, 100 max range. Imperial-Scr: 50 optimal, 87 max range.
You gave the blaster trying to mimic the superior technology/gun-type a 30% range advantage on optimal and 15% range advantage on max.
Unless you're going to release a "OMG-SUPER-TACTICAL-SCRAMBLER" Rifle that gets better range, I don't know what the hell you were thinking here. It seems to fly against exactly what you've stated your aims were in creating variants and having techs behave in a certain way. It's one thing if they make a variety of Blaster that has higher range the average blaster, it's another if it's superior in range to the tech and type it's supposed to be a knock-off of. Because the Scrambler rifle is a Variant of the Amar infantry arsenal due to its stronger damage against shields (20%) and its secondary fire functionality which is difficult to do but rewarding. Because of these functionalities for the weapon Its optimal and max is limited. Assault rifles right now have 10% for armor and shields but gains a longer range. Also the laser rifle is also a Amarian weapon which has longer range than the tactical with similar damage output against shields.
I know I know Assault Rifle operation levels gets more than the Scrambler Rifles operation levels, but Scrambler Rifle is the choice when shield tankers are within optimal range. And Laser rifle is the weapon of choice when in mid-long range battles. |
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2024
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Posted - 2013.08.22 08:03:00 -
[81] - Quote
I'm not really sure what you're suggesting, or why the AR (inferior range-tech) tactical version (knock-off of Amarr version, not main tactical rifle) should outrange the Scrambler. The laser rifle doesn't really enter into it, as it's not within the racial rifle paradigm (combat/rail/blaster/scrambler) that we've described (and they've described) earlier. The TAR has a range advantage on the laser rifle because of fall-off as well anyway. |
Lynn Beck
Granite Mercenary Division
121
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:44:00 -
[82] - Quote
Wanna know sonething funny? Elm laser rifle vs mlt ar:: Elm gets steady 10% increase every 10 meters, until 90 which tops at 120% to shield. 91m goes to 12. Meanwhile the mlt ar still does 26% damage at 91m, and continues onwards to 110 i believe. Imagine the scrambler rifle? I do believe it starts out at 25% for lr |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1546
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Posted - 2013.08.22 18:47:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ok I tested the scrambler rifle and I can tell you some very potent advantages:
No Kick: Shooting the Tac AR is a chore because it kicks like a mule. Scrambler rifle is so much easier to hit with. Large Clip: SCR clip has got the Tac AR by the balls. With no kick, it's semi auto hell fire. Charge Shot Function: The Charge shot brings a lot more damage to your shot. I initially thought that charging used more ammunition but it does not. It just adds heat. I OHK'ed some fool from full health from a good 45-50 meters.
I can tell you that heat = kick in relation to control. Overheat deals damage and siezes your weapon. This is the chief con I have recognized. But when you use the TAR, you have to control your pace or you won't hit a thing at all. The SCR has a much more consistent accuracy that really beats the TAR. Again it has heat but all weapons need some sort of "management feature" to prevent you from going overboard with the weapon.
Now about TAR range. It seems to have the SCR beat, but I can tell you that it would take so much more skill to beat the SCR at TAR range. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
782
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Posted - 2013.08.22 19:16:00 -
[84] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range. Clip size and hipfire capability of the ScR make it more viable in a greater number of situations. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
782
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Posted - 2013.08.22 19:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
Well I know for certain the TAR can't charge up and 1 shot a adv suit, might be a balancing thing I don't know.
It also doesn't overheat and has access to a skill that tightens its spread. A few head shots with a TAR will drop someone quickly, and without 1.5 second charge in the middle of it. Those are balancing measures without even considering the range. Clip size and hipfire capability of the ScR make it more viable in a greater number of situations. Also, TOTALLY not coming from an AR user by the way. I *TOTALLY* don't use a Glu-5 on an M/1 lite every day. I *TOTALLY* am unbiased...
... moving right along.
PS The only thing you ScR users have to complain about is heat on non-amarr assaults ... and the fact that your weapon looks like a fish. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1549
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Posted - 2013.08.22 20:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote: PS The only thing you ScR users have to complain about is heat on non-amarr assaults ... and the fact that your weapon looks like a fish.
When You charge it up it totally doesn't look like a fish It looks like a hungry squid shooting lightning out its maw. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
673
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Posted - 2013.08.22 21:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
I like how a laser weapon can't shoot as far as plasma.
Good job CCP |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
789
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Posted - 2013.08.22 22:22:00 -
[88] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I like how a laser weapon can't shoot as far as plasma.
Good job CCP It's all like "buzzzzzzzzzzzz" but we were all like "Pew! Pew!" then someone was like "GrrrrzzzzzzzITT!!!" and so we lost. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
5541
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Posted - 2013.08.25 14:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ranges should be switched |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1445
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Posted - 2013.08.25 14:47:00 -
[90] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote: It's all like "buzzzzzzzzzzzz" but we were all like "Pew! Pew!" then someone was like "GrrrrzzzzzzzITT!!!" and so we lost.
This was the most beautiful thing I've ever read. You have the soul of a poet. |
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