Use a flux ffs, when will people "GET" that MD isnt meant to be a killer like the AR or HMG. Its a SUPPORT gun.

support for what? special explosion effects? If it does not kill what and how does it support? Is it a revival gun? does it should nanohives? How exactly does it support?

killer like the HMG.

Use a flux ffs, when will people "GET" that MD isnt meant to be a killer like the AR or HMG. Its a SUPPORT gun.

Use a flux ffs, when will people "GET" that MD isnt meant to be a killer like the AR or HMG. Its a SUPPORT gun.

If only you could meet Rug. Best mass driver user I ever saw. He showed me it's the best kill stealing weapon (Fiddle from TP's is pretty good as well). You can kill with it just fine...he's killed 23k clones at over a 7.0 kdr. He's a beast.

If only you could meet Rug. Best mass driver user I ever saw. He showed me it's the best kill stealing weapon (Fiddle from TP's is pretty good as well). You can kill with it just fine...he's killed 23k clones at over a 7.0 kdr. He's a beast.

Why should I have to steal others kills? Why not be able to kill hostiles myself? Should I have to use another weapon if I shall want to be a force on the battlefield?

Umm..kinda awkward cause you're all argumentative an stuff and I'm just here to tell you it is a super useful weapon.
It's supportive it that it's an area denial weapon, with a couple nanohives at your feet you can effectively sustain a blockade at a choke point forever, grenades are unsustainable. You can lob shots onto building roofs to destroy uplinks, you can own murder taxi's. Dude flux/mass drivers can be amazing. Mr GlooGloo uses it and owns people 1v1 or even 1v3. flux massdriver, all of them dead. It's a viable weapon now and will be more useful still after the godlock pistol nerf destroys it's ability to lay down more dps than a mass driver. currently godlock beats out the mass driver cause dps and OP AoE damage.

Because in a game where most SP comes from kills, and half the point is to kill the other guy, everyone just loves an "assist" weapon that takes up just as much room as a normal lethal weapon.

support for what? special explosion effects? If it does not kill what and how does it support? Is it a revival gun? does it should nanohives? How exactly does it support?

Also its ridiculous that you should have to use special grenades to supplement just to make a gun worth using.

support for what? special explosion effects? If it does not kill what and how does it support? Is it a revival gun? does it should nanohives? How exactly does it support?

Also its ridiculous that you should have to use special grenades to supplement just to make a gun worth using.

Who said it doesnt kill? It can kill, it can flush players out of corners and out of hiding/behind objects, it can hit multiple enemies at once, it creates a cloud of obscuring smoke, it has no tracer rounds, it can take out light vehicles, has no range limit but has a difficult learning curve. Its a support weapon in that it's not meant to be in the front lines. The reason why it got heavily nerfed was because it was damn effective at range (the way it was suppose to be used) and flushed people out or out right killed them if they didnt have a safe place to hide.



Thats ignoring the fact that Locus grenades are weak against shields and very strong against armor whereas flux is the exact opposite. You apparently want the best of both worlds.

Maybe you dont know how weapon types work

Explosives are weak to shields, strong to armor. Unless you have a sidearm thats effective against shields (flaylock sort of) then I suggest a Flux Grenade. You can still take out shields if you have concentrated fire.

Flux for shields, MD for armor destruction.How is that hard to understand?

If only you could meet Rug. Best mass driver user I ever saw. He showed me it's the best kill stealing weapon (Fiddle from TP's is pretty good as well). You can kill with it just fine...he's killed 23k clones at over a 7.0 kdr. He's a beast.

Who said it doesnt kill? It can kill, it can flush players out of corners and out of hiding/behind objects, it can hit multiple enemies at once, it creates a cloud of obscuring smoke, it has no tracer rounds, it can take out light vehicles, has no range limit but has a difficult learning curve. Its a support weapon in that it's not meant to be in the front lines. The reason why it got heavily nerfed was because it was damn effective at range (the way it was suppose to be used) and flushed people out or out right killed them if they didnt have a safe place to hide.

Pardon my cinicism, but seeing how you are in Team Players, I would bet all those 23k adn 7.0 came from proto stomping noobs.

I don't think MD is at present either an area of denial: too small an area that it covers with blasts now to deny much nor is able to flush anyone from anywhere: you will empty a full clip and your indirect damage is still not enough (after a full clip) to kill a decent fit logi. The other comment you made about: obscurring smoke - I don't get what you are talking about, i ve never seen any smoke curtains coming out of an MD.

Umm...he's in a 3 man corp currently, only 2 play....but that's not the point...even if you're protostomping noobs a 7.0 is something special. Name more than 50 people on dust who maintain that kdr protostomping noobs. The man is a beast, no matter the competition.

Scrambler rifles are strong against shields, and weak against armor, but I never felt that I need to use locus grenades or any other explosives for taking down armor as a supplement to make my scrambler worth using.
The damage types and resistances are not the issue. Before Uprising the mass driver was a decent weapon, despite being weaker against shields.

I thought the only reason to protostomp was to have a kdr of of at least 7. I am not gonna argue against that he is a beast or a god or a stud, I don't know who he is and I don't care. I am saying that kdr of 7 is possible with just about any weapon when proto stumping. So, it's a weak argument for why MD is a viable and balanced weapon.

the fact that an exceptional player is exceptional while using it proves it's effectiveness to me.

The man is a beast

In case you didn't notice

All that proves is that that player is exceptional, it says absolutely nothing on how the MD is balanced.

Unless you want argue that Regnyum being able to take out protosuits while in a militia suit means that militia gear is just as good as protogear



Yes, yes he is, someone give that man a beer

the MD is easy mose compared to them...

* Improved server to client performance of projectile based weaponry

EDIT: oops, wrong thread

EDIT: oops, wrong thread

Sure it is.
So you're going to deny that MDs are broken right now?



I'm glad CCP disagrees with you.

Now I'm curious

Just 1 question, do you believe it was OP in Chromosone?

Do me a favor and look up a guy named regular trooper and then tell me mass drivers are support or that they do not kill proto suits. This guy is a god with the mass driver.

No, not when I was able to get 5.0 move speed before movement speed was nerfed, and I could get 550 shields and I could strafe better and could be sufficient with my 2 equip slots. It was a good weapon.

It can be done with skill

Mind you that the men/women yall keep mentioning are the best at what they do.

Balancing around the best leaves the average guy wanting yes?

Could you imagine if the ar was balanced around the best assault guys?

Sniper?

Sr?

Smg?

Yall would throw a fit

Just because a few are godlike with a weapon doesn't mean it's balanced

Disregarding equip slots, you can still do that. Base speed is still 5.0, and you can still easily get 550 shields... I think, maybe just 500 idk.

Although we all know the Caldari type-2 was OP last build anyway, yes, yes it was, don't even deny it, it made the type-1 suit look like a joke.



And about this? You do know why the MDs(and all explosive projectiles) are broken at the moment right? It's not a matter of skill, it's about luck. Skill helps, but if luck's not on your side then too bad, your shots will miss, no matter how good you are with it.

If it was broken

If you'd like I can setup a battle between you and a MD user to demonstrate. Or if you'd like after I finish skilling hacking to 5 I'll get operation five and try my hand at killing you with it. I'm no great slayer, you'd proly own me right? Whoever wins get 25 mill isk to the best of 10 deaths.

It is broken, maybe not stats wise, but mechanics wise, it and all projectile based weapons are broken ATM. Plasma Cannon, Mass Driver, Forgeguns, Grenades, even Flaylocks, yes, I know, it's hard to believe that flaylocks could somehow get even more dangerous

Mind you that the men/women yall keep mentioning are the best at what they do.

Balancing around the best leaves the average guy wanting yes?

Could you imagine if the ar was balanced around the best assault guys?

Sniper?

Sr?

Smg?

Yall would throw a fit

Just because a few are godlike with a weapon doesn't mean it's balanced

No thanks, it's dangerous outside the MCC

Aww...I promise you'd win if it was broken. The point of this thread was someone posted that they can't kill proto suits with it. I have no problem conceding that it may be suffering from a projectile problem I was unaware of that CCP recognizes, beyond that I don't see it as a broken weapon incapable of owning people.

It is a difficult weapon to master due to arc and travel time so many believe it is more broke than it actually is, though it does have issues. I hope for his sake that they do improve it and he will be unstoppable, althought he already is close.

Ps. Never said balance around best just that it is able to kill proto and is not a support weapon. It is about hitting your target not hitting them with the blast radious.

Edit: if the sniper rifle was balanced around the average joe even the militia variant would one hit everyone.

I was frustrated when I mafe this thread yes,the fact remains that it is unbalanced.

Incapable of killing proto suits? No

A balanced weapon however it is not,doing well with it requires extra equipment something that should not be needed but should be there to make your job easier.

Do me a favor and look up a guy named regular trooper and then tell me mass drivers are support or that they do not kill proto suits. This guy is a god with the mass driver.

The explosion mechanic doesn't work correctly. This was evident last build and they didn't fix it. That doesn't mean the gun is broken. The gun isn't broken, it is a little bit weaker than it should be. They didn't need to nerf radius AND damage. Flux gernades make it work and I have ended up using them this build. They are an effective counter to scouts, and heavies. I've been over all of this. If you want to read a whole lot about the mass driver, do a search on my posts... It is like all I talk about.

I don't see many people using it in PC. Gloo gloo and dark cloud are all I can think of off the top of my head. It ain't easy, and the style you have to play to make it work isn't for everyone. You can't straight up people. It doesn't do enough damage to straight up people. Be creative and hope that they buff the mass driver when they give everyone else their range back. If they don't, THEN it will be 100% useless.

EDIT: Forgot RegTroop. He does a good job with it too

Also going to add that in a pure killing role, it is inferior to both Core Flaylocks and assault rifles of all varieties. It is a versatile weapon though.

I hate when people say "use a flux grenade", they imagine a scenario where the MD user is always within range of enemy to throw his flux grenade and always has those 3 flux grenades. /EDIT: Also...if you wearing lets say...a Cal Assault suit if you are just running advance nano hives to save PG and CPU you would be expending a MD round/s for a flux grenade, taking into account how far you throw a flux grenade you are trading off a long range shot for a short range target. It may not seem like much of a difference but it can still effect things in the long run depending on the suit/ While I just started using them again, I stll don't find them very great when I am standing on top of a roof camping a objective or whatnot I would rather rely on getting a lucky direct shot.

While it is true that the Scram. Rifle is good against shields...it still has the capacity to kill someone in a less amount of time than the MD. Arguably you could say that it is a support weapon that trades off it's killing power for the inclusion of the inherent AOE side effect of explosives, having the capacity to kill 2 enemies shield tanking while they stand together does not balance the weapon compared to other weapons that do not have that AOE effect...That all being said there is still room for increasing the radius to all the variants or just the Assault mass driver.

I respectfully disagree.

the plasma cannon cannot get a kdr of seven, and if the MD was as busted as it is then obtaining a 7 KDR would be impossible.
the lazer cannot get you a kdr of seven, and if the MD was as busted as it is then obtaining a 7 KDR would be impossible.

Even some of the best pubstomping campers can't get a kdr of 7. Like I said, there are fewer than 50 people on dust that have a kdr of 7 or higher (that have more than 8k kills and actually play) and even fewer if you really consider that many of those people are tankers. It proves a lot...name one bad player that has that 7 or higher KDR and I will rescind.

I said earlier I have no problem with them fixing known problems with the MD, but saying it's broken is incorrect IMO for stated reasons. It does enough damage, it kills just fine, it's a lethal weapon.

It's bugged. CCP is working on it.

Some of us still use it and do well but it's tough. For now, flux nades and damage mods are your best friends.

(also, all the cool MD players hang out in chat channel: Massholes)

I keep forgetting to add that channel when I'm in game

If the enemy is too far for flux to reach, then he's probably too far to even hit you reliably with the current low range. You do maximum damage at maximum range, the tradeoff is that you have to have a lot practice with the MD to know its arc. Lob MDs at him until he tries to close the gap or retreats, in that case you won the battle. Another way to think of this weapon as support is watching your teamates down a guy's shields and lob MDs at him when he takes cover and think he's safe.



Being able to hit multiple players is an advantage in more compact areas like cities but thats only one way of thinking about it. The other way is the fact you dont even need to hit or see your opponent to do damage. If being able to hit people behind cover or missing and still doing damage isnt an advantage then I dont know what is.

The argument I'm trying to make in this thread is that MD isnt suppose to kill like an AR or a semi-auto AR. If that were the case they would have to remove splash damage and grenade arc, and increase projectile speed .
Stop comparing MD to main offensive weapons as they operate very differently in different circumstances.

Oh come on. KDR is such a lame metric in this game. I wont be able to name anyone simply because I dont pay attention to KDR. KDR is something that protostomping corps use when they recruit and compare epeens inside the corp. It has zero relevance to the game play and is a poor correlate to the skill. I can't tell you how many times I ve seen players from negative feedback back out from pub games when they play solo on a losing side (even if their side does not lose but comes close) just to save their KDR status. Yes, it's true that a bad player won't get KDR of 7 no matter what. Beyond that anyone with average skill can get that KDR if they want it. In this game it's too easy to stack up proto equipment in your favor and then just carefully pick your fights. The reason why there are not more ppl with a high KDR is because actually few ppl care that much about it to try to maintain it. I am saying all of that to say that your argument about using one MD user maintaining a high KDR as an example to support you argument that MD is not a weak weapon is weak.

You may hold these assumptions because you cannot accept that a 7 or higher kdr takes an enormous amount of skill, that's fine. You have no proof of your claims. I can name tons of players that have achieved those levels of kdr through skill and talent and I can name players that play PC and have lost those kdrs a bit playing PC matches because they want to play against great competition, they don't care about their kdr. They run into the thick of it to get the most kills just like any of the rest of us, they just are better overall. If you want to exclude the kdr because your own bias then fine, hope it helps ya sleep better. The rest of us who have the humility to see these players for the beasts they are will continue to improve and have the fun playing them.

u dont know what your talking about.

The damage on the flaylock is as follows. 250 dmg for a direct hit and 230 dmg AOE (explosive radius dmg).

Actually yo
In Dust weapons that have direct dmg and splash dmg have both of those dmgs added together for a hit. IE mass driver for a direct hit does MASSIVE dmg because it has the direct dmg plus the AOE dmgs.

So 250 direct dmg and 230 splash ends up with 480 dmg from a direct hit. Now its considered an explosive so it does less dmg to shields. I believe explosive damage only does 80% against shields??? Correct me if I am wrong on that number. So direct hit on shields would be 384 dmg. But it does additional dmg to armor. Explosive dmg to armor is +25% which is 600 dmg for a direct hit. If you dont believe me you can go test it out yourself. Or your can even view the fan fest video showing the flaylock. You will notice on the fanfest video that the flaylock was 1 shotting heavies who had full armor but no shields. A heavy with no armor mods has 405 armor (now remember in fanfest everyone was fully lvled up so the heavy would have had the 25% bonus to armor which actually brings that amount to 506 armor hp). And you can clearly see a direct hit on at least 2 occasions killing the heavy in 1 shot.

Like I said I dont care if you believe me or not. I have the proof right in front of me. And I play regularly with Bonney who uses them and he was skeptical at first but after using it he mentioned that he noticed the same thing the dmg done by a direct hit is MUCH MUCH greater than the dmg done by splash alone. If you look at the numbers noted the difference of 20 damage is pretty small to be able to notice a huge difference between a direct hit and a hit by splash. BTW a direct hit from the flaylock will insta kill 99% of the scouts.

support for what? special explosion effects? If it does not kill what and how does it support? Is it a revival gun? does it should nanohives? How exactly does it support?

Look forward to it. Will be trawling the forums while at the slots tonight, drunk.

Let's evaluate here all of your responses to my posts:

Pardon my cinicism, but seeing how you are in Team Players (cause being in teamplayers means you go protostomp noobs all day when our 2 most visible players, Cubs and our CEO Hightimes run in 32k fits in every pub match they play), I would bet all those 23k adn 7.0 came from proto stomping noobs.

(You were wrong about your assertions here.)

I thought the only reason to protostomp was to have a kdr of of at least 7. (Never verified, a wrong dubious assertion here again) I am not gonna argue against that he is a beast or a god or a stud, I don't know who he is and I don't care. I am saying that kdr of 7 is possible with just about any weapon when proto stumping. (proved you were wrong about this one as well because i have proof from the players who do have that kind of KDR vs you who just dismissed it because that's all you could do.) So, it's a weak argument for why MD is a viable and balanced weapon. (No, if a good player can use it well, then why should I believe you're not just a noob who would be qq'ing over the HMG when it's perfectly fine like people are currently doing? or people qq'ing about nova knives being OP?) -_-

My response:
I respectfully disagree.

the plasma cannon cannot get a kdr of seven, and if the MD was as busted as it is then obtaining a 7 KDR would be impossible.
the lazer cannot get you a kdr of seven, and if the MD was as busted as it is then obtaining a 7 KDR would be impossible.
People can achieve a KDR of 7 with the mass driver and maintain it post uprising, so it seem like that is evidence in favor of my r
Even some of the best pubstomping campers can't get a kdr of 7. Like I said, there are fewer than 50 people on dust that have a kdr of 7 or higher (that have more than 8k kills and actually play) and even fewer if you really consider that many of those people are tankers. It proves a lot...name one bad player that has that 7 or higher KDR and I will rescind. (see this providing leeway for me to change my opinion? notice you never include any such statements in yours? Hmm)

Your response:

Oh come on. KDR is such a lame metric in this game. I wont be able to name anyone simply because I dont pay attention to KDR. (and of course because it's impossible even if you chose to ) KDR is something that protostomping corps use when they recruit and compare epeens inside the corp. (Oh so that's how you assume it goes cause you've been in how many of those corps? the butthurt is strong with this one) It has zero relevance to the game play and is a poor correlate to the skill. (in truth, as aforementioned, a player with that high of a KDR can't be a bad player using proto, they can't even be a good player using proto like Nikia Bethune, or King Kobrah, is has to be someone extremely exceptional, but of course it's easier for you to deny that and proffer weak arguments against it so please feel free) I can't tell you how many times I ve seen players from negative feedback back out from pub games when they play solo on a losing side (even if their side does not lose but comes close) just to save their KDR status (assuming intent ) If it was all about inflating KDR then they wouldn't be the most winningest corp on dust ). Yes, it's true that a bad player won't get KDR of 7 no matter what. (a welcome submission) Beyond that anyone with average skill can get that KDR if they want it. (Proof it's not an assertion? oh wait, you don't want to do that, you just want to throw out assertions without fact behind it cause that's easier than using facts and data and people's experiences sans your own ) In this game it's too easy to stack up proto equipment in your favor and then just carefully pick your fights. (maybe sometimes, but not always...or every decent sniper would have a 100 kdr and all these tryhards would just redline snipe right? ) The reason why there are not more ppl with a high KDR is because actually few ppl care that much about it to try to maintain it. (Exactly, meaning the ones who achieve that are the ones who earned 7 or higher kdr's, another wecome submission ) I am saying all of that to say that your argument about using one MD user maintaining a high KDR as an example to support you argument that MD is not a weak weapon is weak. (I think we're done here )