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Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1690	Posted - 2013.06.20 18:54:00 - [1] - Quote I'm curious at how much interaction folks are willing to have between Eve and Dust. This is really how I saw things going: http://youtu.be/45mlVuLs_Nw?t=36s My main take away isn't the betrayal at the end, but the gameplay interaction between Eve and Dust. FIrst off the Eve player wants control of the ground side of a Space Elevator so he PAYS Dusters to get the job done. In this scenario the Eve player seems to be the end owner. Dusters want the money, but also interaction with Eve through support in the battle. It seems to me a place for Eve could very well be the guys controlling a commander type mode in a battle: setting orders, objectives, calling in local and orbital support, providing tactical information to the ground troops etc. I think we've come to a point where need to make Eve matter to Dust and Dust matter to Eve in a real and tangible way. It's one of the things that makes Dust unique. I really feel that Molden Heath could serve as the place to be bold with growing the connection. How would you all feel about Eve players owning the stuff you are fighting for in addition to Dust ownership as well? What about Eve players not only providing OBs, but having the option of taking on the role of a Field Commander?
Judy Maat Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 98	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:00:00 - [2] - Quote There will always be a lack of meaningful interactions between the 2 game as long as their policy of: "either game should be able to survive without the other one" You could go and ask even the best game designers to work with this kind of constraints and they will eventually throw the towel.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 865	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:05:00 - [3] - Quote The connection right now is tenious at best. I'd like to see the eve / dust connection evident across all strata of Eve and Dust. Up to and including. - Participation in High sec wars. Attack and defence contracts taken by dust players against high sec assets probably PI command centers and storage facilities. - Industry. Immortal and expendable dust mercs moonlighting as explorers, away teams and setting up extraction operations for rare or volitile resorces that would be impossible to retrieve otherwise. I want to stress that, industry should NOT occur in warzones and should act as a sort of social activity to make isk between intense fighting. "Wanna go prospect for Polygypsum in null, the eve guys say the found some on a plasma planet?" "sure". - The Market. Eve players rare dust stuff we buy it. Dusties make rare eve stuff and they buy it. - Low Sec. Dust players signing up for a faction and it having meaningful consequences and rewards. The social aspect of faction loyalty seems to be an after thought for CCP, by looking at games with well defined factions its easy to see how players can get carried away and have a lot of fun with this. CCP should strengthen this for the players that want it. - Null sec warfare. Boarding actions, POS demolition, station capture. Either as part of an alliance ground forces, or by fulfilling contracts.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1692	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:11:00 - [4] - Quote Judy Maat wrote: There will always be a lack of meaningful interactions between the 2 game as long as their policy of: "either game should be able to survive without the other one" You could go and ask even the best game designers to work with this kind of constraints and they will eventually throw the towel. This is one of the reasons I see Molden Heath as a fantastic testing ground. It's one of the smallest and least populated regions in New Eden and can really serve as a place where CCP can be bold. I just think about the billions and even trillions of ISK that flooded into Eve from Incursions and from Faction Warfare issues. With about 250 districts you are looking at a total of 60 billion to 75 billion ISK a month if you use the current ISK generated from districts. In the grand scheme of things this is like a drop in the bucket, BUT to a small group of enterprising players, corporations, and alliances that want to expand and explore the rabbit hole that could be the Eve/Dust link it could be a large incentive. Right now I feel the bonuses are far too restrictive being tied to alliance and corporations. The same goes for Orbital Support as well. I feel like the connection between Dust and Eve needs to be unleashed.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 165	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:12:00 - [5] - Quote PC needs to be expanded to all of lowsec, with the ability for EVE pilots to pay for district control. Allow EVE players to contract attacks against districts, just like Dust corps attack districts with clone packs. Except this time, the EVE players dictate how much they will PAY to get this done in addition to supplying a 150-man clone assault pack (or more). If the attackers win, they get paid 100% of the contract, maybe split to members or taxed into their corp wallet, whatever. If the defenders win, the attackers get nothing. The EVE contract-creator can specify who the contracts are open to, based on standings, of course and have final say on acceptance of the contract. If no one accepts, the contract is voided. Couple this with some sweet EVE-side bonuses and give EVE players access to a similar (if not identical!! thx TrueGrit for the amazing map!) PC map, and we'll have never-ending matches. Also, allow district owners to start mini-matches against any established PI installations inside of their districts. These matches should start 30 min after the attack order is placed. This way, EVE players will give a **** about district ownership on a level that affects the individual. If the guy owning the PI infrastructure wants it defended, he should be allowed to keep the facility's defense open to whoever (public, good standing, Alliance-only) and have to pay up if the defenders fight off the assault (maybe this would be a good way to bring back Skirmish 1.0)
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 866	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:15:00 - [6] - Quote Kain: One battle every 24 hours per district doesn't, even on paper, sound like engaging futuristic warfare. How would you strengthen the eve dust link by altering this feature in particular
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 952	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:17:00 - [7] - Quote Lots of good ideas. I welcome any further interaction, as it is now its tenuous. Anything substantial would make it seem connected. Who plays dust and feels like they are connected to EVE at this point?
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 165	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:25:00 - [8] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Lots of good ideas. I welcome any further interaction, as it is now its tenuous. Anything substantial would make it seem connected. Who plays dust and feels like they are connected to EVE at this point? I feel most connected when I use my EVE client to send recruitment mails to Dust chars because its so much easier, lol. We (Tso's) had a nice little bit of fun last night helping some friends remove some locals from a system they hold on the ground, which is sort of like Dust content fueling EVE content in a disconnected way... Back on topic, I did write up a blog about things I'd absolutely love to see added to further both games and really drive home the importance of the connection.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1695	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:26:00 - [9] - Quote iceyburnz wrote: Kain: One battle every 24 hours per district doesn't, even on paper, sound like engaging futuristic warfare. How would you strengthen the eve dust link by altering this feature in particular I really think there needs to be more ways to attack a district and with these different attacks different timers. One would be raiding to get money out of a district but not trying to take ownership. I think these fights could be potentially done in a shorter time frame before a district's reinforcement timer, but what timeframe specifically (6 hours, 12 hours, etc.) I don't know. When it comes for battling for a district I feel very strongly that attackers should be able fight multiple times in the same day (maybe the same hour) for a district, but it needs to be very conditional. One great idea was that if you were attacking and still had more than 150 clones you could choose to continue an attack after you won your first match or wait to come back the next day. This would make a fight for a district more of a pitched battle. I almost see the ownership of a district being a switch that you flip as a choice of Eve or Dust ownership. If Eve side owns it then the benefits and ISK flow into Eve. The other side of the coin is I really feel that the benefits of owning a district need to flow to the members of that corporation in a concrete way.
hooc order Deep Space Republic 435	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:32:00 - [10] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I'm curious at how much interaction folks are willing to have between Eve and Dust. This is really how I saw things going: http://youtu.be/45mlVuLs_Nw?t=36s My main take away isn't the betrayal at the end, but the gameplay interaction between Eve and Dust. FIrst off the Eve player wants control of the ground side of a Space Elevator so he PAYS Dusters to get the job done. In this scenario the Eve player seems to be the end owner. Dusters want the money, but also interaction with Eve through support in the battle. It seems to me a place for Eve could very well be the guys controlling a commander type mode in a battle: setting orders, objectives, calling in local and orbital support, providing tactical information to the ground troops etc. I think we've come to a point where need to make Eve matter to Dust and Dust matter to Eve in a real and tangible way. It's one of the things that makes Dust unique. I really feel that Molden Heath could serve as the place to be bold with growing the connection. How would you all feel about Eve players owning the stuff you are fighting for in addition to Dust ownership as well? What about Eve players not only providing OBs, but having the option of taking on the role of a Field Commander? Years away and will probably never come. When can we get new council members? This one is obviously of no use and only wants to talk about pie in the sky BS that does nothing to fix this broken game now.

KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Orion Empire 79	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:32:00 - [11] - Quote We should own the elevator/POCO and tax the usage of Eve players(based on standings which are set by the Dust Corp [i.e +5 = no tax +2.5= 2% tax, -5=10% tax]). If Dust dies easily reset to how POCOs work now, if EVE dies well its just an income we dont get anymore. i would like to see more match interaction, but i dont think EVE playes should be the sole commanders. It would make more sense that whoever posts a contract is the commander (individual or CEO/directors of Corps both EVE and Dust). i would also like there to be a way for EVE players to earn orbitals and look at our map and pick where they want to throw it. Maybe based on killing enemy FW ships either player or NPC that spawn at a district under attack.
Dexter Peabody Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 69	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:37:00 - [12] - Quote Absolutely not. Do not expand the EVE-Dust link until the core issues with DUST have been fixed. There's no point in developing more links if the game itself is in trouble.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1699	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:38:00 - [13] - Quote hooc order wrote: Years away and will probably never come. When can we get new council members? This one is obviously of no use and only wants to talk about pie in the sky BS that does nothing to fix this broken game now. The FPS side of Dust and the core gameplay is by far the most important, but I haven't lost my faith or hope in the idea this game put forward. I feel the the Core is absolutely critical and the #1 priority before everything else. That said, I don't think we should take our eye of the ball in making sure once the Core is where it needs to be and Dust is a FUN fps first and foremost that the game has a larger purpose and drive that in all honestly the FPS world really lacks.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 168	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:40:00 - [14] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: i would also like there to be a way for EVE players to earn orbitals and look at our map and pick where they want to throw it. This would be absolutely awesome. More variations of orbitals are sorely needed, with different mechanics attached to each. Cruisers and above should definitely be able to pick where the hell they want to fire, even if its more spread out. And decoupling the Tactical Starship strikes from WP needs to happen very soon. It annoyed me in closed beta when the FW/Corp battles used the system we have now (with only 8 guys fighting on the ground on top of that). Make it a timer, and make it based off of how many and how long friendly ships have been parked near the beacon in orbit.
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 958	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:42:00 - [15] - Quote BursegSardaukar wrote: KOBLAKA1 wrote: i would also like there to be a way for EVE players to earn orbitals and look at our map and pick where they want to throw it. This would be absolutely awesome. More variations of orbitals are sorely needed, with different mechanics attached to each. Cruisers and above should definitely be able to pick where the hell they want to fire, even if its more spread out. And decoupling the Tactical Starship strikes from WP needs to happen very soon. It annoyed me in closed beta when the FW/Corp battles used the system we have now (with only 8 guys fighting on the ground on top of that). Make it a timer, and make it based off of how many and how long friendly ships have been parked near the beacon in orbit. That would get more ships directly involved, I would think. Both those ideas.
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 958	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:43:00 - [16] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: hooc order wrote: Years away and will probably never come. When can we get new council members? This one is obviously of no use and only wants to talk about pie in the sky BS that does nothing to fix this broken game now. The FPS side of Dust and the core gameplay is by far the most important, but I haven't lost my faith or hope in the idea this game put forward. I feel the the Core is absolutely critical and the #1 priority before everything else. That said, I don't think we should take our eye of the ball in making sure once the Core is where it needs to be and Dust is a FUN fps first and foremost that the game has a larger purpose and drive that in all honestly the FPS world really lacks. As CPM it is good to still look forward beyond the current needs, he just grumpy.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 168	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:44:00 - [17] - Quote Dexter Peabody wrote: Absolutely not. Do not expand the EVE-Dust link until the core issues with DUST have been fixed. There's no point in developing more links if the game itself is in trouble. I don't think the OP implied that Dust/EVE connections are paramount to fun gameplay and proper hit detection, etc... I took this thread as a "What can be added to flesh out the unique aspect Dust has over every other FPS." With PS2 coming to the Playstation 4, not to mention all the existing FPS franchises out there, the strength of Dust will be its interactivity with EVE. Once Dust's gameplay is at the same, fun level of existing FPS's, ideas like those proposed will be needed to have Dust stand out in the crowd.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1699	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:48:00 - [18] - Quote Dexter Peabody wrote: Absolutely not. Do not expand the EVE-Dust link until the core issues with DUST have been fixed. There's no point in developing more links if the game itself is in trouble. I couldn't agree more. You are right that the core issues MUST be fixed. You have to remember though that Dust has many pieces and people behind it. Not every single person is going to be someone that codes or develops the core gameplay mechanics. The gameplay being fun is what will drive us to play the game, but the impact we can make and the social links we create will keep us around for years and years. I guess one of the things I'm trying to get at is once the core gameplay is where it needs to be how deeply involved do you see Eve players being in your day to day gameplay experience?
SteelDark Knight Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 34	Posted - 2013.06.20 19:51:00 - [19] - Quote There are multiple smaller teams and specializations within the larger Dust 514 CCP team. They should be able to work on core issues and also work on broader more large scale issues such as PC issues and the larger overall concern of the Dust/Eve link at the same time. For example, SOXFour isn't exactly going to be asked to work on weapon balance. The Art and Sound team(s) are not going to be working on coding. In answer to Kains question the Eve/Dust link is the one thing that has the potential to separate Dust 514 from its competition. The current systems such as PC are failing at providing any real feel for this link. In short, I believe that fleshing out the Dust/Eve link has to be one of the very top priorities for the team moving forward. It is the one ace in the hole they have that no competition can currently offer.
hooc order Deep Space Republic 435	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:01:00 - [20] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: hooc order wrote: Years away and will probably never come. When can we get new council members? This one is obviously of no use and only wants to talk about pie in the sky BS that does nothing to fix this broken game now. The FPS side of Dust and the core gameplay is by far the most important, but I haven't lost my faith or hope in the idea this game put forward. I feel the the Core is absolutely critical and the #1 priority before everything else. That said, I don't think we should take our eye of the ball in making sure once the Core is where it needs to be and Dust is a FUN fps first and foremost that the game has a larger purpose and drive that in all honestly the FPS world really lacks. Then what you think is dead wrong. The community has spoken and CPP has listened and we ended up with a piece of ** with an SP/leveling system and evaporating bullets and only 5k players at peak hours on the only FTP FPS on the PS3. Let me repeat that last part: 5K ON THE ONLY FTP FPS ON THE PS3!!!! Seriously 5k out of the 10s of millions of PS3 owners....millions of which have even down loaded the game. The game is bleeding to death and your visioning is to blame. Stop this crap. Just stop. The number one problem with this game is new player retention. Tinkering with PC and the EvE/Dust connection that involves not one new player ever is not doing ** to fix it. Step down already and take the rest of the council with you when you do it.

Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 181	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:04:00 - [21] - Quote The link needs to be spread as far as it can. We're citizens of new eden and we should be just as involved as our capsuleer counterparts.
Jebus McKing Molon Labe. League of Infamy 85	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:07:00 - [22] - Quote I really hoped CCP would have VERY CONCRETE plans on how the EVE-DUST link would probably work 3 years from now, because so far this potential is the only thing that makes DUST special. And the question is not how much interaction we want - that interaction is the only reason some of us are still here - the question is how long it will take CCP to make more interaction happen, and if they are able to make it fun and meaningful. TL;DR Yes, more interaction, please.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 874	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:08:00 - [23] - Quote SteelDark Knight wrote: In answer to Kains question the Eve/Dust link is the one thing that has the potential to separate Dust 514 from its competition. The current systems such as PC are failing at providing any real feel for this link. In short, I believe that fleshing out the Dust/Eve link has to be one of the very top priorities for the team moving forward. It is the one ace in the hole they have that no competition can currently offer. I couldn't agree more. People will play a game because its interesting, even if the mechanics need work. Population isn't dropping because they might have gotten a kill one time because the target stopped registering damage. They are going because no matter what label you put on it, the battles are all the same. Dust is in desperate need of more features, more gameplay types, in short; more for players to do think about and engage with. Its in CCPs bets interest to do this, when the player is in game and stays there they can't really play anything else. Dust lacks that "grab factor", immersions, pull or whatever you want to call it and firing our imagination with catch phrases and future visions only goes so far (it does help though). I think the eve/dust link is the most intresting, appealing aspect of dust. It needs to be made more accessable to people with less time. It needs to be meaningful, innovative and brave. CCP have played it safe so far, drip feeding small changes, telling them they are expansion when infact they are nothing more than completing an unfinished game. They need to get brave and live by the mottos they like to display at fanfest every year. Fight the impossible CCP, and deliver.
bill the noon G I A N T EoN. 36	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:09:00 - [24] - Quote If eve players could provide map scans for us or use ECM to mess with the people on the ground this would be a nice way for eve players to help without being too overkill.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 169	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:11:00 - [25] - Quote hooc order wrote: Kain Spero wrote: hooc order wrote: Years away and will probably never come. When can we get new council members? This one is obviously of no use and only wants to talk about pie in the sky BS that does nothing to fix this broken game now. The FPS side of Dust and the core gameplay is by far the most important, but I haven't lost my faith or hope in the idea this game put forward. I feel the the Core is absolutely critical and the #1 priority before everything else. That said, I don't think we should take our eye of the ball in making sure once the Core is where it needs to be and Dust is a FUN fps first and foremost that the game has a larger purpose and drive that in all honestly the FPS world really lacks. Then what you think is dead wrong. The community has spoken and CPP has listened and we ended up with a piece of ** with an SP/leveling system and evaporating bullets and only 5k players at peak hours on the only FTP FPS on the PS3. Let me repeat that last part: 5K ON THE ONLY FTP FPS ON THE PS3!!!! Seriously 5k out of the 10s of millions of PS3 owners....millions of which have even down loaded the game. The game is bleeding to death and your visioning is to blame. Stop this crap. Just stop. The number one problem with this game is new player retention. Tinkering with PC and the EvE/Dust connection that involves not one new player ever is not doing ** to fix it. Step down already and take the rest of the council with you when you do it. Dude... Have you thought that new players might want to be a part of something bigger, as promised, but also poorly delivered? When CCP fixes the current technical gun play issues, people still will leave the game when the newest generic shooter comes out because there's nothing unique keeping them in Dust. The EVE link IS what will keep them here. People pick BF or CoD because they like tactical v arcade style shooter mechanics, but both are casual. There are those out there (like myself) that want depth and the knowledge that they are connected to a bigger world, man.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 874	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:12:00 - [26] - Quote bill the noon wrote: If eve players could provide map scans for us or use ECM to mess with the people on the ground this would be a nice way for eve players to help without being too overkill. Thats actually a pretty good idea. Thats so out the box and yet so obvious.
Kain Spero Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1704	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:13:00 - [27] - Quote bill the noon wrote: If eve players could provide map scans for us or use ECM to mess with the people on the ground this would be a nice way for eve players to help without being too overkill. I really want to see the OB mechanic unhinged from Warpoints in a balanced way, but I really wold love to see information warfare be a part of the Orbital Support landscape.
4447 Not Guilty EoN. 754	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:19:00 - [28] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: I'm curious at how much interaction folks are willing to have between Eve and Dust. This is really how I saw things going: http://youtu.be/45mlVuLs_Nw?t=36s My main take away isn't the betrayal at the end, but the gameplay interaction between Eve and Dust. FIrst off the Eve player wants control of the ground side of a Space Elevator so he PAYS Dusters to get the job done. In this scenario the Eve player seems to be the end owner. Dusters want the money, but also interaction with Eve through support in the battle. It seems to me a place for Eve could very well be the guys controlling a commander type mode in a battle: setting orders, objectives, calling in local and orbital support, providing tactical information to the ground troops etc. I think we've come to a point where need to make Eve matter to Dust and Dust matter to Eve in a real and tangible way. It's one of the things that makes Dust unique. I really feel that Molden Heath could serve as the place to be bold with growing the connection. How would you all feel about Eve players owning the stuff you are fighting for in addition to Dust ownership as well? What about Eve players not only providing OBs, but having the option of taking on the role of a Field Commander? Field commander are you joking, right? Most of EVE player base can't hold a gun and you want them to command a battle? Maybe more of a intel role. Edit: EVE players should have more of a logistics role.
Turkevich Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 42	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:20:00 - [29] - Quote I've been saying this for a while "Dust needs to represent a huge carrot that Eve players won't want to live without". The opposite should be true as well. Eve should offer something to Dust mercs that we could live without but it would be painful to do so. Doesn't matter what this carrot ends up being but it needs to happen soon. The connection to Eve currently is nothing more than a cute science fair demo. There is no real meaning behind it. POCOs seems to be a good area of focus. The lore behind it is believable and the players already accept that POCOs are "owned". Simply split the current POCO mechanic into two destructible, player-owned, structures. Taxes for transfers of PI goods to/from Eve would generate income for the owners of each end of the link. The rates and owners of each end need not be the same. This simple carrot would drive conflict in both Eve and Dust. Sure it's not a lot of conflict as POCOs really aren't that big of a cash cow but that's part of my rationale. Why mess with a big income source initially? Start with something small like POCOs and see how the players derive content from it. Of course this cannot happen until we have the ability to fight on all types of planets. That means a lot more maps and PC districts for Dust.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 182	Posted - 2013.06.20 20:22:00 - [30] - Quote 4447 wrote: Field commander are you joking, right? Most of EVE player base can't hold a gun and you want them to command a battle? Maybe more of a intel role. I agree. They should pay us, not command us. This is how we should draw the line as to "each game standing on its own." Let them fly space ships and provide support. I don't want to be taking orders from a clone that won't step out of his ship/orbit. We need to be our own commanders, our own generals. These are OUR wars.



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