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Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1580
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
No WP for transport roles, no matter how useful you are |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
442
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
Felix Faraday wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:do dropships need love? absolutely. are they completely useless? absolutely NOT.
How are these pilots avoiding railgun fire?
take out the railguns....
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TEBOW BAGGINS
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
602
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
by the time the RDV arrives (usually around 1.5 - 2 minutes) the blues have already ran to the furthest point. it's also very hard to talk rungungame kids into it. air assaults/drops/extracts are just not fun for them. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
443
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:No WP for transport roles, no matter how useful you are
agreed this is the hardest thing about DS is however much they contribute to positioning, havoc, etc, you have to account for the fact that on a WP or even kill level for the most part they are not going to help...
really sad and I hope that's addressed asap.
harder to find good pilots anymore due to this.. no one wants to play a role that doesn't give you any stats
cant blame em |
Andius Fidelitas
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
80
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
Troop transport? Yeah... Only to ferry troops to high locations.
Drop uplinks scattered all over the map (which is every PC battle these days) makes the role of troop transport utterly superflous in organized matches. Why bother to transport when you can merely respawn. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
443
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
TEBOW BAGGINS wrote:by the time the RDV arrives (usually around 1.5 - 2 minutes) the blues have already ran to the furthest point. it's also very hard to talk rungungame kids into it. air assaults/drops/extracts are just not fun for them.
experience and coordination alleviate this...
roughly 30 seconds is what it should take if done right. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
33
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
It's also a very barren sky, one big bowl surrounded by mountains but nothing in the actual bowl except maybe a single skyscraper. The DShips has no where to take cover and is too slow to run away.
Plus LAVS are faster in straight line speed minus all the negatives, and are able to kill infantry with ease.
The positives don't outweigh the negatives when it comes to Derpships. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3781
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:we are finding more and more uses for them all the time, working within the current limits of their hull made of flammable confetti. but yes you need someone that has received their piloting certification for them to be worthwhile. and for those that don't believe me, just post your location on the PC map and we'll see what we can do about scheduling a demonstration I've wanted to set up a corp battle for so long where everyone just uses dropships. It doesn't matter if all you have is a militia ship with militia mods, or you're crazy and want to go full on "proto" assault. Watching that many dropships flying around crashing into each other with gunners firing at things would be highly amusing.
I know you can do cool stuff with dropships, primarily the ADS since their handling was left primarily intact moving over to Uprising, along with the added benefit of that increased flight ceiling. That's the true beauty of the ADS, quite frankly.
I suppose for a corp like yours, the issues with cost are essentially a non factor, so losing those expensive platforms is a lot less painful to you overall.
Hot drops (fly by or stationary from a height) are excellent if you can time them correctly, I was extremely proficient with those right before Uprising, then they added the drift and it really increased the distance that you throw people; the trajectory is very fidgety. You also need to make sure everyone can hear you who's in the ship, which becomes kind of a nightmare in PC even when your chat channels are set up pretty well.
It's a little more tricky with the comms because you need to always be calling out information, so you've got to be talking to your squad leaders, but you also need to communicate to your gunners, and it's hard to do a countdown for the whole ship to "drop" when only your squad leaders or gunners can hear you. (again, a corp like yours suffers a little less from having members die, so you can be primarily squad based, and the ship doesn't have to help the rest of the team as much; but **** happens)
Proto Cycled turrets are the boss on dropships. Afterburners on a shield DS with make you immune to swarms while mobile, and safer from forge guns; breach FG will still make you cry, and so will my kamikaze Gorgon.
The primary issue with dropships in relation to its ease to kill is
A:) Cost B:) Rewards (primarily WP and SP)
Both of which are overcome in a corporation like yours, because, let's face it, you've got some kick ass players. Don't you still have the highest total SP of anyone in the game? And Calamity Jane II was in our squad the other day, kicking ass with a shotgun logi |
Andius Fidelitas
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
80
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I miss the old days of having a squad on board. Yelling over the comms to say things like Drop drop drop Three foot mobiles gunners on cas Splash that forge gunner. Good splash Pick up at alpha going to charlie. Gunners only going dog fighting. Window in the window nail that heavy!(biomass map)
But ccp nerfed me to oblivion.
This!!!
Oh how I yearn for lethal dropships again. At least i am still hoping for dropsips armed with swarm launchers |
Rigor Mordis
Imperial Populicide Legion Alpha Wolf Pack
42
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Posted - 2013.06.14 17:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mobile CRU is the only thing I have seen to make DS effective. Still.... And anyone who thinks that AV grenades homing in on vehicles isn't NERF, obviously never played any varsity ball. Make an AV grenade take SOME skill! All anyone has to do is put it in the air. That's not even little league.....heck that's not even Tee ball! Its "NERF"
There needs to be an entire section where people can list what they are disappointed in. One where the devs don't get butt hurt and lock the thread.
Here is my list:
Dust514 |
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Felix Faraday
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
82
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Posted - 2013.06.14 18:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:Felix Faraday wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:do dropships need love? absolutely. are they completely useless? absolutely NOT.
How are these pilots avoiding railgun fire? take out the railguns....
So the solution to dropships being useful, is be better than the other team so you can kill all their railtanks whenever they decide to call them in.
CCP can stop looking into dropships, we have found a solution! |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
341
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Posted - 2013.06.14 18:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
LOU C1F3R wrote:There is no real reason to QQ over the drop ships. They serve three different purposes. Troop movement, vehicle healing, and light attack for pesky high ground seekers. If people simply used them as intended there would be no problem. But everyone seems to think that they are the apaches of this game.... They are the Huey's of this game. Everyone complaining about them is trying to make an essential minivan act like a porche
The problem is I've never allowed a troop transport dropship enough time to even reach their objective. They lift off, they get halfway to an objective and I turn them into a fireball if someone else does not beat me to it.
Literally one dropship, ever, in this latest build, has ever escaped me and actually reached an objective and yes I was astounded enough to consider it memorable out of the literal hundreds that I've taken out (Not counting watching others do the job).
The instant a dropship is RDVed the entire battlefield can hear it and every AV and Railgunner instantly thinks "WERE?! Free points!"
Due to the insufferable noise that can be heard literally everywhere in the battlefield you can't even sneak a dropship to an objective. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
450
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:we are finding more and more uses for them all the time, working within the current limits of their hull made of flammable confetti. but yes you need someone that has received their piloting certification for them to be worthwhile. and for those that don't believe me, just post your location on the PC map and we'll see what we can do about scheduling a demonstration I've wanted to set up a corp battle for so long where everyone just uses dropships. It doesn't matter if all you have is a militia ship with militia mods, or you're crazy and want to go full on "proto" assault. Watching that many dropships flying around crashing into each other with gunners firing at things would be highly amusing. I know you can do cool stuff with dropships, primarily the ADS since their handling was left primarily intact moving over to Uprising, along with the added benefit of that increased flight ceiling. That's the true beauty of the ADS, quite frankly. I suppose for a corp like yours, the issues with cost are essentially a non factor, so losing those expensive platforms is a lot less painful to you overall. Hot drops (fly by or stationary from a height) are excellent if you can time them correctly, I was extremely proficient with those right before Uprising, then they added the drift and it really increased the distance that you throw people; the trajectory is very fidgety. You also need to make sure everyone can hear you who's in the ship, which becomes kind of a nightmare in PC even when your chat channels are set up pretty well. It's a little more tricky with the comms because you need to always be calling out information, so you've got to be talking to your squad leaders, but you also need to communicate to your gunners, and it's hard to do a countdown for the whole ship to "drop" when only your squad leaders or gunners can hear you. (again, a corp like yours suffers a little less from having members die, so you can be primarily squad based, and the ship doesn't have to help the rest of the team as much; but **** happens) Proto Cycled turrets are the boss on dropships. Afterburners on a shield DS with make you immune to swarms while mobile, and safer from forge guns; breach FG will still make you cry, and so will my kamikaze Gorgon. The primary issue with dropships in relation to its ease to kill is A:) Cost B:) Rewards (primarily WP and SP) Both of which are overcome in a corporation like yours, because, let's face it, you've got some kick ass players. Don't you still have the highest total SP of anyone in the game? And Calamity Jane II was in our squad the other day, kicking ass with a shotgun logi
spot on.. well said
yea i probably have more SP than anyone, but ZERO into vehicles, yes they are not cheap, and i advise my pilots and drives to use discretion in pubs, but they are taken care of for PC, even if it comes out of my personal wallet. yea annie and jane are freaks of nature. you could literally give them an avocado and a paperclip and they would MacGyver up something to go 20/2 in a match... they take their craft seriously while still having fun, as do most my guys |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3789
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:43:00 -
[44] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:spot on.. well said
yea i probably have more SP than anyone, but ZERO into vehicles, yes they are not cheap, and i advise my pilots and drives to use discretion in pubs, but they are taken care of for PC, even if it comes out of my personal wallet. yea annie and jane are freaks of nature. you could literally give them an avocado and a paperclip and they would MacGyver up something to go 20/2 in a match... they take their craft seriously while still having fun, as do most my guys
One day I'd like to take to the skies again, but I felt it would be an unnecessary strain on my corp, financially, and just a lot of things in my personal life limit when and how I can play the game; plus all the stress from getting exploded no matter my fitting or tactics was really taking its toll on me >_<
It's always fun running with you guys, I mostly just run solo in ambush unless circumstances allow me to squad, but yea, good games all around.
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Texs Red
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
31
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Posted - 2013.06.14 19:56:00 -
[45] - Quote
As I have pointed out here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=892959#post892959 dropships are ill suited for the role of gunship for two factors; 1) To kill a decently fit tank it can take 30-60 seconds to sustained fire with perfect accuracy and 2) it would only take a decent AV/tank less than 10 seconds to kill them in return, a proto forge would only require 4 seconds (2 shots) where the pilot would have approx. 2 seconds to react if the first hit is a surprise.
To completely deny a dropship any ability to fight all you need to two railguns/forge guns/swarmers spread out enough that they can offer each other cover fire and them communicating. Unless you can manage a kill in a single flyby attack and the the surprise on your enemy this will provide perfect AA fire. |
IamI3rian
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
184
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Posted - 2013.06.14 20:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Just give forge guns tracers, already. That certainly wouldn't hurt the problem. At least snipers could deal with them eventually.
Then again, not everyone has good snipers to deal with good forgers. |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS
33
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Posted - 2013.06.15 13:41:00 -
[47] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:ok im just gonna leave this thread. It has become apparent that most here have no notion of competitive gameplay which is the entire perspective from which im speaking. do dropships need love? absolutely. are they completely useless? absolutely NOT. we are finding more and more uses for them all the time, working within the current limits of their hull made of flammable confetti. but yes you need someone that has received their piloting certification for them to be worthwhile. and for those that don't believe me, just post your location on the PC map and we'll see what we can do about scheduling a demonstration
I can speak from experience that the occasional game , using two dedicated gunners, using damage mods with the proto cycled missiles I had been able to get a reasonable amount of kills but even more importantly, make it hard for enemies to move in certain areas of the map.
Additionally as long as you have gunner support they were great for harassing tanks as well as taking out installations.
My main problem was there squishiness in combat as well as a very unintuitive pilot gun control.
I suppose as someone put it, I expected it to be something like an Apache and not a glorified transport helicopter. It did say "Assault" dropship. |
Crow Splat
DUST University Ivy League
19
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Posted - 2013.06.15 14:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
The main reason I don't fly a lot, especially in pub matches, is lack of communication required to be more than a glorified taxi driver. It's not difficult to get a squad that wants you to ferry them around all match but aanything more needs a way to communicate to all the squad leaders on your team as well as whoever os in your ship.
I think the easiest way to alleviate these problems would be to allow squad leaders to set up "signal beacons." Basically the SL could set up a beacon exactly the same way as they would call in an orbital. They would pick between a beacon for pickup or for air support. obviously for pickup you would set it at the location you want to be picked up at and for air support you would set it at a suspected enemy position.
Once activated, the beacons would show up on screen just like the nanite injectors and call for help do, as well as showing up on the map. The two types would have different icons so an appropriate DS could respond.
As for an incentive to use the system, give squads and pilots bonus wp for kills and assists while an air support beacon is up, For transport beacons give squads bonus wp and pilots a commission for any action that produces wp for x seconds after disembarking.
Also please for the love of god put pilots and passengers in the same chat channel automatically. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3808
|
Posted - 2013.06.15 15:01:00 -
[49] - Quote
Crow Splat wrote:Also please for the love of god put pilots and passengers in the same chat channel automatically.
I was actually thinking this exact same thing.
If someone enters your ship, it automatically unmutes them if they're muted / unmutes you if they have you muted, or simply puts them in your chat channel. Once they exit, it reverts to whatever it was before they entered. This would be a godsend for PC pilots. |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
168
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Posted - 2013.06.15 15:09:00 -
[50] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Crow Splat wrote:Also please for the love of god put pilots and passengers in the same chat channel automatically. I was actually thinking this exact same thing. If someone enters your ship, it automatically unmutes them if they're muted / unmutes you if they have you muted, or simply puts them in your chat channel. Once they exit, it reverts to whatever it was before they entered. This would be a godsend for PC pilots.
*cough* proxy chat *cough*
you can call me a MAG lover but fact of the matter, that would be a great addition to DUST514. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3808
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Posted - 2013.06.15 15:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
I just want to trash talk enemies as I t-bag them, is that really so much to ask for?
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Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
168
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Posted - 2013.06.15 15:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I just want to trash talk enemies as I t-bag them, is that really so much to ask for?
that's in proxy chat as well... ANYONE close to you can hear you and you them... so yes sneak up to that sniper yell then kill him as I`ve read it was very enjoyable (I haven't done it myself). |
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