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LOU C1F3R
Savage Arms INC
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a very vehicle spec'ed character and I have been pouring my skill points into being able to use all the vehicles available to help my corp and team where it is needed but I can't help but notice that no one uses the drop ship to move troops en mass. What gives? |
Byozuma Kegawa
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
128
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Swarms and forge guns. No, seriously, that's it. It's easy to lose a squad if you happen to start catching hell on the way to the objective. I've forced people into flying into buildings with well-timed swarms. Most prefer to just shuttle themselves in cars, anyway. Faster. |
Aeon Amadi
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
1530
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Byozuma Kegawa wrote:Swarms and forge guns. No, seriously, that's it. It's easy to lose a squad if you happen to start catching hell on the way to the objective. I've forced people into flying into buildings with well-timed swarms. Most prefer to just shuttle themselves in cars, anyway. Faster.
Not just faster but more durable. A logistics LAV is more discreet and can take a hell of a lot more punishment. A major flaw in the design, imo, that could have been easily rectified by making their repair tool an AoE and giving the turret a forward shield. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3773
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
LAVs do it better for less and are more durable. A well fit dropship is going to cost you a minimum of 600k, but more realistically a bit above 1 million ISK. You're very likely to lose that ship, even if all you're doing is flying in from your redline, air dropping troops with a count down over mic, then booking back to your redline. All it takes is 1 to 2 hits, and any forge gunner or rail gunner worth his salt won't miss you too many times, if at all.
You don't make WP for being a troop transporter, and in fact you LOSE WP and ISK gains for having a dropship killed. The maps are too small, and in most instances the dropship is really only good for that very initial push, which any old militia dropship can do without SP.
Simply put, there is no place in this game for a troop transport at this moment, and even if there was, free LAVs do it just as well |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Red line tankers, railguns installations, and forge gun = useless drop ships. At least Swarm Launchers give you a chance to run away |
Byozuma Kegawa
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
129
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Honestly, they need to let people do stuff in drop ships, I mean there's 4 passenger spots where all you do is sit. Imagine if a logistic could keep a repair tool running inside the airship, keeping it fixed up while it's taking fire. Then you'd have a reason for people to ride with you than just filling a turret. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
437
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
honestly the QQ over derpships is a little over the top. in the hands of a GOOD pilot the dropship is extremely effective.
problem is most pilots don't even have their licenses (myself included). I have issues finding the gas pedal much less the steering wheel ;-)
seriously tho dropships in the right hands are very useful. in the wrong hands it makes me feel like im playing duck hunt with my forge.. good times |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. ROFL BROS
32
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 14:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:honestly the QQ over derpships is a little over the top. in the hands of a GOOD pilot the dropship is extremely effective.
problem is most pilots don't even have their licenses (myself included). I have issues finding the gas pedal much less the steering wheel ;-)
seriously tho dropships in the right hands are very useful. in the wrong hands it makes me feel like im playing duck hunt with my forge.. good times
No mate, it matters not how good of a pilot anyone is. One decent timed well placed forge hit will total any dropship. What I mean is if it doesn't take out all of your hit points it will send you flying sideways into buildings.
The assault dropship anyway seeing as before the respec that's what I had experience with. |
LOU C1F3R
Savage Arms INC
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
There is no real reason to QQ over the drop ships. They serve three different purposes. Troop movement, vehicle healing, and light attack for pesky high ground seekers. If people simply used them as intended there would be no problem. But everyone seems to think that they are the apaches of this game.... They are the Huey's of this game. Everyone complaining about them is trying to make an essential minivan act like a porche |
Aeon Amadi
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
1530
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Another big aspect is that Drop ships receive shock from weapons fire whereas LAV s do not. A drop ship hit by a Rail or Forge will jolt dangerously off course whereas an LAV will not receive any recourse for damage received. Something I feel needs to be fixed. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3774
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:seriously tho dropships in the right hands are very useful. in the wrong hands it makes me feel like im playing duck hunt with my forge.. good times
I call BS. The only way to be a "good" dropship pilot right now is to circle the flight ceiling near your redline and periodically make a dash for an objective to drop someone off.
Assault DS can put up some numbers if there isn't real enemy AV (above standard FG, or any kind of rail gun), but really, everyone should have a Gorgon fit anyways in order to take out enemy dropships. |
Skihids
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
1618
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
The dropship is a solution looking for a problem.
Right now there is nothing it can do that can't be done better and cheaper in some other way with the sole execption of an inital DU placement in high places.
Add in the fact that to do much of anything the dropship must fly low and slow where it is easy fodder for railguns and FGs and you realize why they are a total non-factor.
It's a great concept, but it just doesn't have a place in the game. It feels like it was included merely so the trailers could have something in the sky for visual interest.
There is a huge amount of effort needed to reverse all that. It needs viable missions. It needs rewards for those missions. It needs balancing against AV. Given all the other work CCP has on its plate don't expect all that in less than a year or two. You could even consider making dropships releveant as an expansion given the level of work required and the fact that it really isn't a part of the current game. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
439
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
1 suggestion... dropships aren't meant to fight forgers...
basing your opinion on pubs is moot... pubs everyone focuses on vehicles whenever they see them, giving up on objectives or even trying to win.
I prefer to do both ;)
and as a forger I can say in all confidence a good pilot is tough to take down. Sure I can make them ineffective for the most part and make them fly out of range, but they can be useful is all im sayin |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3774
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:and as a forger I can say in all confidence a good pilot is tough to take down. Sure I can make them ineffective for the most part and make them fly out of range, but they can be useful is all im sayin
You guys must have someone recording, please upload some videos of a dropship (allied or not) being actually useful to the game in any way other than forcing enemy AV.
I take out Assault Dropships with my militia forge like they're nothing, sooo..... (and if they somehow are descent enough to survive, I call in my Gorgon and crash into them, works every time) |
Aeon Amadi
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
1530
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The dropship is a solution looking for a problem.
Right now there is nothing it can do that can't be done better and cheaper in some other way with the sole execption of an inital DU placement in high places.
Add in the fact that to do much of anything the dropship must fly low and slow where it is easy fodder for railguns and FGs and you realize why they are a total non-factor.
It's a great concept, but it just doesn't have a place in the game. It feels like it was included merely so the trailers could have something in the sky for visual interest.
There is a huge amount of effort needed to reverse all that. It needs viable missions. It needs rewards for those missions. It needs balancing against AV. Given all the other work CCP has on its plate don't expect all that in less than a year or two. You could even consider making dropships releveant as an expansion given the level of work required and the fact that it really isn't a part of the current game.
Lula, that post made me think of Drop ships as the scouts of the vehicle world. |
Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
96
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:1 suggestion... dropships aren't meant to fight forgers...
basing your opinion on pubs is moot... pubs everyone focuses on vehicles whenever they see them, giving up on objectives or even trying to win.
I prefer to do both ;)
and as a forger I can say in all confidence a good pilot is tough to take down. Sure I can make them ineffective for the most part and make them fly out of range, but they can be useful is all im sayin Hi there! From personal experience, 1 forge gunner is enough to take down most dropships. What happen to team work? I think AV grenades should receive a nerf as well to promote teamwork. Drop ships promote teamwork and you have that 1 little glowing dot in the tower destroying you with 1-2 shoots . Also I agree with Dust Fiend as well.
P.s. I love you team players |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
361
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:1 suggestion... dropships aren't meant to fight forgers...
basing your opinion on pubs is moot... pubs everyone focuses on vehicles whenever they see them, giving up on objectives or even trying to win.
I prefer to do both ;)
and as a forger I can say in all confidence a good pilot is tough to take down. Sure I can make them ineffective for the most part and make them fly out of range, but they can be useful is all im sayin
Not everyone has one of the best dust pilots in their corp either cubs
In PC, a dropship can be quite useful... but in pubs... they generally aren't all that useful from what i've seen.
However... im all for more dropship pilots... easy WP for my AV nades most of the time! |
Felix Faraday
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
73
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quote:and as a forger I can say in all confidence a good pilot is tough to take down. Sure I can make them ineffective for the most part and make them fly out of range, but they can be useful is all im sayin
Go sit in a railgun installation and see how tough they are to take down. (hint, not very tough)
I've lost count of how many dropships Ive killed, sitting in a MLT suit in a railgun installation behind my redline completely out of harms way. Doesn't matter how good the pilot is at that range.
And on some of the maps, these installations can cover more than half the map.
Solution? Implement an AA-HAV. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3774
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Felix Faraday wrote:Solution? Implement an AA-HAV. Because **** player feedback |
Aeon Amadi
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
1531
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Azura Sakura wrote:CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:1 suggestion... dropships aren't meant to fight forgers...
basing your opinion on pubs is moot... pubs everyone focuses on vehicles whenever they see them, giving up on objectives or even trying to win.
I prefer to do both ;)
and as a forger I can say in all confidence a good pilot is tough to take down. Sure I can make them ineffective for the most part and make them fly out of range, but they can be useful is all im sayin Hi there! From personal experience, 1 forge gunner is enough to take down most dropships. What happen to team work? I think AV grenades should receive a nerf as well to promote teamwork. Drop ships promote teamwork and you have that 1 little glowing dot in the tower destroying you with 1-2 shoots . Also I agree with Dust Fiend as well. P.s. I love you team players
See, I see this argument a lot. 'Nerf x AV option to promote teamwork'. The thing you need to understand is that it takes a single person to operate an HAV or more recently an LAV. This becomes a problem because it inevitably forces more people to abandon combat effectiveness versus Infantry to compensate for the one HAV on the field as AV options become less efficient.
I'll understand requiring an entire squad to go AV only in the event it takes as many players to effectively operate the vehicles they're trying to destroy. This balance is -assumed- as vehicles SHOULD require infantry support to be viable but the argument never ceases as both sides use their options in ways unintended. A lone player in a Railgun HAV gets killed by a player with AV grenades because he put himself in a position for that player to have the upper hand, not because the grenades are overpowered.
Understanding choke-points, potential ambushes is the first key to the puzzle. Having proper infantry support is another. When you include Logistics (something that I feel needs better implementation currently) you go into a whole new ballgame. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
5152
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
I miss the old days of having a squad on board. Yelling over the comms to say things like Drop drop drop Three foot mobiles gunners on cas Splash that forge gunner. Good splash Pick up at alpha going to charlie. Gunners only going dog fighting. Window in the window nail that heavy!(biomass map)
But ccp nerfed me to oblivion. |
LOU C1F3R
Savage Arms INC
7
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
You and I would get along great in a drop ship wolf. Lol
Not in a gay way though..... I'm totally straight..... So stop asking. |
SmileB4Death
Commando Perkone Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Because they work better as missiles |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
731
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:honestly the QQ over derpships is a little over the top. in the hands of a GOOD pilot the dropship is extremely effective.
problem is most pilots don't even have their licenses (myself included). I have issues finding the gas pedal much less the steering wheel ;-)
seriously tho dropships in the right hands are very useful. in the wrong hands it makes me feel like im playing duck hunt with my forge.. good times
Well, all I can say you must have been on of the few people playing this game ever to see an effective dropship.
Every drop ships I have ever seen has been a stupid dangle berry that flies about begging to be shot out of the sky.
No matter how you frame it dropships on the size of maps we have are completely useless.
Thats being said heres a list of issues with dropships.
Dropships are transport; whats the point if you can run across the map in 3 minutes and flying in a dropship makes you a massive pinyata target.
Dropships turrets are broken, there is a very small effective angle of fire, aim to high low, left or right and you hit the dropship you're firing from.
Light weapon turrets are broken, its pixel sized hit detection, good luck trying to hit something while in a "dog fight" or even moving fairly slowly (again if you move are a rate it becomes effective you are a massive easy to kill target).
Light missile turrets are broken. The stupid things have difficulty calculating the position of the turret relative to the firing angle while moving. So what you get are this random spew of rockets.
Dropship deployment is broken. It's realistic because if you drop people at speed they shoot out with the angular momentum picked up from the drop ships. Its hilarious and its fun, but it makes actually dropping people on a target completely useless. Because the often over shoot the target scattering the squad.
The only thing dropships have going for them:
The ability to park on otherwise inaccessable structures for snipers, drop uplinks and those damn tower tanks.
|
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
618
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
LOU C1F3R wrote:There is no real reason to QQ over the drop ships. They serve three different purposes. Troop movement, vehicle healing, and light attack for pesky high ground seekers. If people simply used them as intended there would be no problem. But everyone seems to think that they are the apaches of this game.... They are the Huey's of this game. Everyone complaining about them is trying to make an essential minivan act like a porche troop movement, not viable if ANY AV is up vehicle healing, you have to be nuts to even try it, its still horrible high ground seeker, normally have a forge so not viable
Aeon Amadi wrote:Another big aspect is that Drop ships receive shock from weapons fire whereas LAV s do not. A drop ship hit by a Rail or Forge will jolt dangerously off course whereas an LAV will not receive any recourse for damage received. Something I feel needs to be fixed. LAVs do to they just have an easier time correcting from that. |
Aeon Amadi
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
1533
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 15:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
ladwar wrote:LOU C1F3R wrote:There is no real reason to QQ over the drop ships. They serve three different purposes. Troop movement, vehicle healing, and light attack for pesky high ground seekers. If people simply used them as intended there would be no problem. But everyone seems to think that they are the apaches of this game.... They are the Huey's of this game. Everyone complaining about them is trying to make an essential minivan act like a porche troop movement, not viable if ANY AV is up vehicle healing, you have to be nuts to even try it, its still horrible high ground seeker, normally have a forge so not viable Aeon Amadi wrote:Another big aspect is that Drop ships receive shock from weapons fire whereas LAV s do not. A drop ship hit by a Rail or Forge will jolt dangerously off course whereas an LAV will not receive any recourse for damage received. Something I feel needs to be fixed. LAVs do to they just have an easier time correcting from that.
You'd think a Forge Gun/Railgun hit would send them barrel rolling with how easy it is to flip them on rough terrain. Hell.... Might make the murder taxis dissipate a bit if it did... |
Felix Faraday
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
76
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 16:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:You'd think a Forge Gun/Railgun hit would send them barrel rolling with how easy it is to flip them on rough terrain. Hell.... Might make the murder taxis dissipate a bit if it did...
Are you kidding? My new goal would be to see how many barrel roll kills I could get.... forge gun bowling!
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CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
442
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
ok im just gonna leave this thread. It has become apparent that most here have no notion of competitive gameplay which is the entire perspective from which im speaking.
do dropships need love? absolutely. are they completely useless? absolutely NOT.
we are finding more and more uses for them all the time, working within the current limits of their hull made of flammable confetti. but yes you need someone that has received their piloting certification for them to be worthwhile. and for those that don't believe me, just post your location on the PC map and we'll see what we can do about scheduling a demonstration
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Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
97
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:ok im just gonna leave this thread. It has become apparent that most here have no notion of competitive gameplay which is the entire perspective from which im speaking. do dropships need love? absolutely. are they completely useless? absolutely NOT. we are finding more and more uses for them all the time, working within the current limits of their hull made of flammable confetti. but yes you need someone that has received their piloting certification for them to be worthwhile. and for those that don't believe me, just post your location on the PC map and we'll see what we can do about scheduling a demonstration Can you make a vid or just have your pilot (or yourself) write up some tips about piloting in this current build. I'm all up for "adapt or die" thing. I usually only use my drop ship when we need to cover ground in the open field. Also my corp doesn't have land in PC :) |
Felix Faraday
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
78
|
Posted - 2013.06.14 17:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER wrote:do dropships need love? absolutely. are they completely useless? absolutely NOT.
How are these pilots avoiding railgun fire? |
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