DUST Search - Heavies need to be heavy.

SoTah Pawp wrote:

KING SALASI wrote:

SoTah Pawp wrote:

KING SALASI wrote:

SoTah Pawp wrote:

Heavies: How come we die to a single clip with no hard counters to our ****** range or anything to add to our survivability?

AR user: Because I'll cry.

Heavies: But the description describes an anti-infantry tank that can stand toe-to-toe with vehicles!

AR user: so what, balance would be broken!

Heavies: but.. it's in our description... isn't that false advertising?

AR User: What part of, "Balance would be broken" don't you get? Everyone would be a heavy!

Heavies: You mean in PC everyone would be slow with no equipment slots? I thought speed in battle was important, how does it effect balance? Wouldn't it only really hurt pubs and people in PC who think rushing a heavy is a good idea?

AR user : STFU WITH YER LOGIC SON.

CCP - you falsely advertise our class to be what it's not. You're bad and should feel bad.

The set up I've noticed lately is a logi healing the heavy with an AR user by thier side. The heavies are perfect for what they do.

oh - so because you 'noticed' something it must be fine?

And better yet - we must have that logi or accept we're, "Not doing it right." But a logi doesn't need the heavy to be, "Doing it right." So doesn't that sort of leave us ... screwed?

What part of logic do you fear? :3

No what you want is to be a super clone running around, well walking around. If the current set up for you being a heavy is not up to par switch class, or yet adapt or die choice is yours.

Cool - now explain to me how a heavy can adapt. I'll wait.

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SoTah Pawp Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:24:00 - [31] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: Heavies: How come we die to a single clip with no hard counters to our ****** range or anything to add to our survivability? AR user: Because I'll cry. Heavies: But the description describes an anti-infantry tank that can stand toe-to-toe with vehicles! AR user: so what, balance would be broken! Heavies: but.. it's in our description... isn't that false advertising? AR User: What part of, "Balance would be broken" don't you get? Everyone would be a heavy! Heavies: You mean in PC everyone would be slow with no equipment slots? I thought speed in battle was important, how does it effect balance? Wouldn't it only really hurt pubs and people in PC who think rushing a heavy is a good idea? AR user : STFU WITH YER LOGIC SON. CCP - you falsely advertise our class to be what it's not. You're bad and should feel bad. The set up I've noticed lately is a logi healing the heavy with an AR user by thier side. The heavies are perfect for what they do. oh - so because you 'noticed' something it must be fine? And better yet - we must have that logi or accept we're, "Not doing it right." But a logi doesn't need the heavy to be, "Doing it right." So doesn't that sort of leave us ... screwed? What part of logic do you fear? :3 No what you want is to be a super clone running around, well walking around. If the current set up for you being a heavy is not up to par switch class, or yet adapt or die choice is yours. Cool - now explain to me how a heavy can adapt. I'll wait.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 15	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:28:00 - [32] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: Heavies: How come we die to a single clip with no hard counters to our ****** range or anything to add to our survivability? AR user: Because I'll cry. Heavies: But the description describes an anti-infantry tank that can stand toe-to-toe with vehicles! AR user: so what, balance would be broken! Heavies: but.. it's in our description... isn't that false advertising? AR User: What part of, "Balance would be broken" don't you get? Everyone would be a heavy! Heavies: You mean in PC everyone would be slow with no equipment slots? I thought speed in battle was important, how does it effect balance? Wouldn't it only really hurt pubs and people in PC who think rushing a heavy is a good idea? AR user : STFU WITH YER LOGIC SON. CCP - you falsely advertise our class to be what it's not. You're bad and should feel bad. The set up I've noticed lately is a logi healing the heavy with an AR user by thier side. The heavies are perfect for what they do. oh - so because you 'noticed' something it must be fine? And better yet - we must have that logi or accept we're, "Not doing it right." But a logi doesn't need the heavy to be, "Doing it right." So doesn't that sort of leave us ... screwed? What part of logic do you fear? :3 No what you want is to be a super clone running around, well walking around. If the current set up for you being a heavy is not up to par switch class, or yet adapt or die choice is yours. Cool - now explain to me how a heavy can adapt. I'll wait. By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5.
Interplanetary Insanitarium Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:30:00 - [33] - Quote I just got out of a match where I could barely injure an AR user from 45m away with the MH-82 and then got killed for 8 damage (with wayyyy more than 8 health) with an SMG from 31 m away. That was because I retreated then paused, so he had time to set up, but still...8 damage to kill me. And I saw an Amarr med frame A-1 with as much shield as my heavy frame, in fact it was the guy with the AR. And yeah, he was probably using modules. I don't want CCP to take this as " Make the heavy far superior to everything else!" And I understand that it takes time to get into the better gear, but I don't even have enough slots to make my armor or shields a viable threat at standard heavy, some glass cannon filled with damage mods comes along outside my effective range and kills me before I can turn on him. And I don't want the speed increased on the heavy. I think they should be slow.
SoTah Pawp Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 76	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:30:00 - [34] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 15	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:35:00 - [35] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. Lol i see plenty of known corps playing ur so called pub matches. Get off your high horse this game is full of beta players lol. Take a look at the player counts i never face ur so called pub matches. Like i said heavies are fine stop trying to look for a super advantage over other players again adapt or die.
Interplanetary Insanitarium Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:39:00 - [36] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. They all say "adapt or die" which I find amusing. It's survival of the fittest, and all the slow and heavy people die off first. And yeah, pub stomping doesn't prove jack. And that's coming from a guy that only plays instant battles with random squads.
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 139	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:40:00 - [37] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. Who was this heavy? As far as I've experienced, no heavy in KEQ goes 25-5 in a planetary conquest match versus true competition. Either the heavy lacked any competition or it was blind luck. I rarely see skilled players go 25-5 in planetary conquest, no matter what suit they wear. What King Salasi saw was a fluke.
SoTah Pawp Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:40:00 - [38] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. Lol i see plenty of known corps playing ur so called pub matches. Get off your high horse this game is full of beta players lol. Take a look at the player counts i never face ur so called pub matches. Like i said heavies are fine stop trying to look for a super advantage over other players again adapt or die. So now your advocating Pubs being an elite form of competition? Wow - you're desperate to stay relevant. How much further are you going to insult yourself here? Lol - "Pubs are the real deal!" You must be pretty bad to believe that. Again - bring that heavy you speak of or explain how a heavy can 'adapt' or stay out of threads you know nothing about. And FYI - I've gone 30-2 several times in pubs. Lol
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3331	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:40:00 - [39] - Quote I'm kind of putting all my eggs in one basket right now and hoping IWS wasn't lying about the Commando Heavy
martinofski Les Rebelles A Qc 161	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:40:00 - [40] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. Lol i see plenty of known corps playing ur so called pub matches. Get off your high horse this game is full of beta players lol. Take a look at the player counts i never face ur so called pub matches. Like i said heavies are fine stop trying to look for a super advantage over other players again adapt or die. 25-5 in a pub match mean nothing when you don't who against who that game was. one game can be against low SP reddots, while the next is against 3 full squad of proto AR. Give a better explanation as why they are fine, because your answers are just empty right now.

KOBLAKA1 Opus Arcana Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:41:00 - [41] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: The heavies are perfect at the moment. No need for CCP to touch them OP just want to be super heavy lol. Last night my corp mates and i ran into a proto heavy this dude was just mowing us down while he just ate our bullets for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. End of game he went 25-5 so again what's wrong with the heavies?? Muahahaha that may have been me, were you trying to take objective C? However while it performed here there is no reason heavies shouldn't get more low slots. Every other suit jumps 3or more slots to include euipment slots we don't get. Prime example is the logo atm. Max skills I hover around 1500 ehp. A logo can get to almost 1100 and they start at base who around 300 while I start at 800 something fundamentally flawed about that. HMG just needs 15m more range. Damage is fine. Bigger bullets go farther. Just a fact. So an AR shouldn't out range me.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 15	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:44:00 - [42] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. Lol i see plenty of known corps playing ur so called pub matches. Get off your high horse this game is full of beta players lol. Take a look at the player counts i never face ur so called pub matches. Like i said heavies are fine stop trying to look for a super advantage over other players again adapt or die. So now your advocating Pubs being an elite form of competition? Wow - you're desperate to stay relevant. How much further are you going to insult yourself here? Lol - "Pubs are the real deal!" You must be pretty bad to believe that. Again - bring that heavy you speak of or explain how a heavy can 'adapt' or stay out of threads you know nothing about. And FYI - I've gone 30-2 several times in pubs. Lol This game is full same old beta players where are these pubs???? Lmao heavies are fine dude in PC or your so called pub matches. I forget the name of the heavy from KEQ, again props to that dude he was a beast.
Interplanetary Insanitarium Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:45:00 - [43] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: HMG just needs 15m more range. Damage is fine. Bigger bullets go farther. Just a fact. So an AR shouldn't out range me. Exactly, at first I though the HMG was just extremely low velocity, which is weird unless in the EVE universe weapons are a relatively new concept.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 15	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:46:00 - [44] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: KING SALASI wrote: The heavies are perfect at the moment. No need for CCP to touch them OP just want to be super heavy lol. Last night my corp mates and i ran into a proto heavy this dude was just mowing us down while he just ate our bullets for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. End of game he went 25-5 so again what's wrong with the heavies?? Muahahaha that may have been me, were you trying to take objective C? However while it performed here there is no reason heavies shouldn't get more low slots. Every other suit jumps 3or more slots to include euipment slots we don't get. Prime example is the logo atm. Max skills I hover around 1500 ehp. A logo can get to almost 1100 and they start at base who around 300 while I start at 800 something fundamentally flawed about that. HMG just needs 15m more range. Damage is fine. Bigger bullets go farther. Just a fact. So an AR shouldn't out range me. I Agree the heavies should get more slots.
martinofski Les Rebelles A Qc 161	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:48:00 - [45] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: This game is full same old beta players where are these pubs???? Lmao heavies are fine dude in PC or your so called pub matches. I forget the name of the heavy from KEQ, again props to that dude he was a beast. May I ask how much SP you got and what class you play?
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 139	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:51:00 - [46] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: KING SALASI wrote: The heavies are perfect at the moment. No need for CCP to touch them OP just want to be super heavy lol. Last night my corp mates and i ran into a proto heavy this dude was just mowing us down while he just ate our bullets for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. End of game he went 25-5 so again what's wrong with the heavies?? Muahahaha that may have been me, were you trying to take objective C? However while it performed here there is no reason heavies shouldn't get more low slots. Every other suit jumps 3or more slots to include euipment slots we don't get. Prime example is the logo atm. Max skills I hover around 1500 ehp. A logo can get to almost 1100 and they start at base who around 300 while I start at 800 something fundamentally flawed about that. HMG just needs 15m more range. Damage is fine. Bigger bullets go farther. Just a fact. So an AR shouldn't out range me. Due to the extremely slow turning rate of the heavy, I see no reason why the heavy shouldn't have more range. The defensive nature of the heavy should be to suppress all weapon users in frontal assaults. Smart players can always flank the heavy. Due to their slow turning rate, they get destroyed rather easily. The heavy might as well have a shotgun over an HMG. There doesn't seem to be much of a range difference and people fear the shotgun more than the HMG due to it's killing capability.
SoTah Pawp Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:51:00 - [47] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: SoTah Pawp wrote: KING SALASI wrote: By taking notes from that heavy from KEQ asking how he went 25-5. So you can't explain? Awesome. Stay out of threads you know nothing about and let that, "25-5" heavy do the speaking. Mmmk? and lol @ pub stomping proving anything. Lol i see plenty of known corps playing ur so called pub matches. Get off your high horse this game is full of beta players lol. Take a look at the player counts i never face ur so called pub matches. Like i said heavies are fine stop trying to look for a super advantage over other players again adapt or die. So now your advocating Pubs being an elite form of competition? Wow - you're desperate to stay relevant. How much further are you going to insult yourself here? Lol - "Pubs are the real deal!" You must be pretty bad to believe that. Again - bring that heavy you speak of or explain how a heavy can 'adapt' or stay out of threads you know nothing about. And FYI - I've gone 30-2 several times in pubs. Lol This game is full same old beta players where are these pubs???? Lmao heavies are fine dude in PC or your so called pub matches. I forget the name of the heavy from KEQ, again props to that dude he was a beast. LOL - so not only can you not explain yourself - you use facts based on someone whose name you can't remember/know/lied about. Lol Here's a fun fact: This is a free to play game - not beta players only. Please take your stupid out of these forums.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 500	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:51:00 - [48] - Quote You guys are looking at this game all wrong. This wasn't a nerf to Heavies to make their range suck. It was a buff to Nova Knives so they can get in really close before you can shoot them.
Interplanetary Insanitarium Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:52:00 - [49] - Quote KING SALASI wrote: I Agree the heavies should get more slots. More slots and at least the same range as AR's with the current amount of bullet spread, or a little more to force using bursts. So at distance you're not hosing them down with bullets but you're still able to make them think twice about going that way. No buff to speed.
KING SALASI MAJOR DISTRIBUTION 15	Posted - 2013.05.29 16:52:00 - [50] - Quote martinofski wrote: KING SALASI wrote: This game is full same old beta players where are these pubs???? Lmao heavies are fine dude in PC or your so called pub matches. I forget the name of the heavy from KEQ, again props to that dude he was a beast. May I ask how much SP you got and what class you play? 6 mill sp assault class, will be going logi once CCP fixes the logi class.

Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 59	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:06:00 - [51] - Quote Heavies need another weapon to be mid range. I think CCP want the HMG to be short range and for heavies to be siege type assets
KaoticKrusader 0uter.Heaven League of Infamy 6	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:09:00 - [52] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: Heavies: How come we die to a single clip with no hard counters to our ****** range or anything to add to our survivability? AR user: Because I'll cry. Heavies: But the description describes an anti-infantry tank that can stand toe-to-toe with vehicles! AR user: so what, balance would be broken! Heavies: but.. it's in our description... isn't that false advertising? AR User: What part of, "Balance would be broken" don't you get? Everyone would be a heavy! Heavies: You mean in PC everyone would be slow with no equipment slots? I thought speed in battle was important, how does it effect balance? Wouldn't it only really hurt pubs and people in PC who think rushing a heavy is a good idea? AR user : STFU WITH YER LOGIC SON. CCP - you falsely advertise our class to be what it's not. You're bad and should feel bad. +1 lol
Evil-Stuffed-Animal Ahrendee Mercenaries 26	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:11:00 - [53] - Quote I was a heavy during Chromosome. We were hit with the rubber nerf hammer then. CCP has successfully destroyed the heavy for Uprising. Though they gave the Heavy a slight buff, the class is still entirely unplayable for me. Until they fix what is broken it'll forever be "R.I.P. Heavy for me".
martinofski Les Rebelles A Qc 161	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:13:00 - [54] - Quote Interplanetary Insanitarium wrote: KING SALASI wrote: I Agree the heavies should get more slots. More slots and at least the same range as AR's with the current amount of bullet spread, or a little more to force using bursts. So at distance you're not hosing them down with bullets but you're still able to make them think twice about going that way. No buff to speed. +1 to more slots and HMG range. Anyway, with our dispersion, we wouldn't hit anyone that much to kill them. Would be used only as a "crowd control" I agree. If at 75m with the current dispersion, about 10% of your bullets would register, you would deal a big 66 DPS. How would that hurt anything?
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 225	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:26:00 - [55] - Quote Honestly, Heavy suits are fine in the current build. We just need the other races. HMG is still a tad underwhelming, but has its teeth back in CQC. TACs are the weapon currently out of balance. Fix 'em and HMG Heavies will fine the way they are. I'm a dedicated fattie, and I approve this message.
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 139	Posted - 2013.05.29 17:44:00 - [56] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Honestly, Heavy suits are fine in the current build. We just need the other races. HMG is still a tad underwhelming, but has its teeth back in CQC. TACs are the weapon currently out of balance. Fix 'em and HMG Heavies will fine the way they are. I'm a dedicated fattie, and I approve this message. So the fact that the medium suits can have 1k total armor/shield which makes them a certifiable heavy is irrelevant? The fact that medium suits can stack enough dmg mods to destroy a heavy with only a third to half of a magazine on a full auto AR before they even get into the range of our supposedly great HMG is balanced? The TAC is not the issue. The TAC is OP to everyone, not just the heavy. The HMG as a CQC weapon is a ridiculous idea. It's mean for medium range suppression not CQC. The shotgun, SMG, and knife are meant for CQC. By the time hostiles get into CQC range, it's beyond suppression. This is when you have to be able to kill quickly. It seems that every other main stream game developer but CCP realizes weapon balance. If CCP actually made the HMG to work as a medium range suppressive weapon, the heavy suit might not need to be touched but the medium suits have too many high and low power modules slots, regardless. People like this fail to realize that the heavy is good against players with low SP but as you start to progress into more advanced suits, the heavy falls short. Players in planetary conquest aren't simply content to use less than prototype gear which the heavy is not well designed to compete against.
Disturbingly Bored Universal Allies Inc. 225	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:36:00 - [57] - Quote Chinduko wrote: So the fact that the medium suits can have 1k total armor/shield which makes them a certifiable heavy is irrelevant? The fact that medium suits can stack enough dmg mods to destroy a heavy with only a third to half of a magazine on a full auto AR before they even get into the range of our supposedly great HMG is balanced? Please share your 1000+ HP assault fits. (Or is it a Caldari Logi ck.0?) But in short, yes. Anything tanking that much is sacrificing much to do it, is likely shield heavy, and dies quickly after a flux grenade. You can equip 1500+ HP if you like. Damage mods have a stacking penalty and using many of them makes a suit very squishy. You can use damage mods too. The heavy suit itself, HP and slot-wise, is fine. What it really needs are racial variants and a heavy weapon that actually makes sense with the lolwut Amarr Sentinel bonus. Quote: The TAC is not the issue. The TAC is OP to everyone, not just the heavy. What weapon beats an HMG Heavy under most conditions but a TAC? Not the shotgun, scrambler rifle, nova knives, sniper rifle, plasma canon, SMG, flaylock, scram pistol, laser rifle or forge gun. Maybe a mass driver in expert hands. I'm not saying the HMG is amazing. It's still a bit underpowered. But it is not broken and it still murders in close range. I will admit I think the "BULLETS DISAPPEARING IS STUPID" is a valid argument. Gun game should be balanced around kick, dispersion, DPS, and the physical shape of ADS on screen for aiming. Maximum range is dumb. But the game is the game, and under the current mechanics, only the TAC is well outside the bounds of balance as far as infantry weapons go. The rest could use tweaking at best.
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 100	Posted - 2013.05.29 19:40:00 - [58] - Quote those boundless hmg dont seem underpower at all....
Interplanetary Insanitarium Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.29 20:31:00 - [59] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: those boundless hmg dont seem underpower at all.... HMG's aren't underpowered in terms of DPS, they're underpowered in terms of range. The range of an AR is well outside the range of an HMG... I'm pretty sure SMG's are more effective than HMG's at a distance. And heavies are naturally slow so we can't really run away or rush to get into optimal range that well. So what's the point of having either a close quarters weapon with the HMG or an AV/sniper weapon with the Forge when we'd have to spec into light weapons to have a medium range weapon? That ruins the mystique of heavies.
Jal R The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 18	Posted - 2013.05.30 00:30:00 - [60] - Quote Somehow this thread derailed from Heavies needing to be Heavy to a debate over whether the HMG is fine or not. Lets just say don't touch the damn HMG it's in a good spot right now. Getting back to the OP, the problem atm with Heavies is that their HP when compared to medium suits is far too low. My proto sentinel runs two enhanced armour plates and two complex reppers which gives me a total of 698 armour HP added to the 506 shield HP for a total of 1204 HP (reason why only 2 plates is any more and I see snails overtaking me). Now that would be fine back in Chromosome, albeit barely, but when we have medium suits that can achieve close to 1k total HP it makes Heavies almost redundant when you factor in the faster movement speed of the medium frames. What Heavies should get is: Heavies should get a bonus to armour plates reducing the movement speed penalty by at least 50%. Or, as some others have pointed out, Heavies should get a dmg reduction to small arms fire. Around 5% per level spent into Sentinel. Small arms meaning not including Sniper or Shotgun. Or just a passive boost to HP.



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