All things aside, if you are getting two shot, even by a breach forge, then something is wrong with your fit, or you called in a Sica.

Officer Forge kills 5400 with 10% resists in skills and the two 15% Resists on there, in 2 shots. Third shot kills in, this all happens in around 5 seconds. To quote many corpmates "Fighting a Tank isn't scary anymore." Before, you would see a tank and comms would be "**** theres a tank" followed by people getting AV ready, now it's "Tank on the field" followed by one guy saying "Ahahaha it's dead" moments later.

I think you are mistaken on your math. Even with double damage mods, and the 15% from proficiency, the Gastuns doesn't put out that much damage. Yes it can produce a longer firing sequence, and does better DPS/time than an assault forge, but it does not produce the numbers you are talking about.

Even if it did, the 5 million SP needed to field that fit means it should be able to rip up a tank. This applies less for the breach forge ,as the longer charge time mitigates some or your argument about getting wiped out quickly.

Yes, pretty much any PC battle means that a forge gunner up top can kill you in a magazine if you mismanage your modules, or have a bad fit. That is PC for you. Everyone has the gear, so be prepared. If your team can't clear the roof, enjoy the redline, and hiding.

I'll add more later, time to go watch football.

As everyone knows, I'm a pretty vocal Vehicle player (inb4whoruscrub?), I'm in favour of balancing everything and understand there are times when I will be brought to my knees by a single experienced forge gunner, but I'm getting tired of this horrible balancing from CCP.

Now before people come crawling out of their holes to defend how this is how Tanks should be, you have to answer a few questions.

Are you a specialized Vehicle/AV Player? (This means, have you dedicated yourself to one type of playstyle, not just added a couple of points into a Swarm Launcher and decided to call yourself the Tank Buster, nor are you a Tanker if you've got a sica with a rail and you're rolling thinking you're l33t because you red line snipe.)

Do you play PC? (Simple question)

These two questions will tell people enough. If you're not specialized, you have a very miniscule say in any Vehicle/AV debate, it is not your place to tell us how the vehicles and anti-vehicles should work, I won't whine about your AR, you don't whine about your swarms not killing a tank. Don't play PC? Again, not really qualified to talk about vehicle balance, PC changes the battlefield completely, with everyone pulling their best gear (Tanks being standard, AV being Officer.)

So the question, when do I get to go toe to toe with AVers?

Vehicles have a massive disadvantage at the minute, we have no way to compete against higher tier AV. Let's look at Vehicles and clear things up.

Militia Tank > Standard Tank (Enforcer Tanks come under this role, offering no real advantage other than slightly higher damage output, you cannot call this advanced.)

Militia LAV > Standard LAV (And Scout) > Logistics LAV (It's hench, let's admit it before someone cries.)

Militia Dropship > Standard Dropship (Assault/Logi included)

AV...

Militia Forge > Standard Forge > Advanced Forge > Prototype Forge > Officer Forge

Militia Swarms > Standard Swarms > Advanced Swarms > Prototype Swarms

Standard Plasma Cannon > Advanced Plasma Cannon > Prototype Plasma Cannon (Admittedly, these are awful.)

Standard AV Nades > Advanced AV Nades > Prototype AV Nades


Do we notice anything? Apart from the Logi LAV, no vehicle type has anything higher than a standard type vehicle, and let's be honest, this is the thing that is killing us, that is what's missing from the balance. Militia v Militia, it goes either way, Standard v Standard, Vehicles are survivable, anything above that usually means death to the Vehicle Player.

CCP needs to address this, and they need to offer a viable solution for it, it is not fun losing a vehicle simply because CCP hasn't put in the correct vehicles to combat the AV. If it needs to be done, AV tiers need to match Vehicle Tiers, resulting in standard AV fighting us.

TL;DR: Vehicle vs AV is pretty much balanced apart from Dropships and AV Grenades, we need the Advanced and Proto vehicles before CCP does any editing to the numbers.

But enough of my thoughts, speak to me on balance.

As everyone knows, I'm a pretty vocal Vehicle player (inb4whoruscrub?), I'm in favour of balancing everything and understand there are times when I will be brought to my knees by a single experienced forge gunner, but I'm getting tired of this horrible balancing from CCP.

Now before people come crawling out of their holes to defend how this is how Tanks should be, you have to answer a few questions.

Are you a specialized Vehicle/AV Player? (This means, have you dedicated yourself to one type of playstyle, not just added a couple of points into a Swarm Launcher and decided to call yourself the Tank Buster, nor are you a Tanker if you've got a sica with a rail and you're rolling thinking you're l33t because you red line snipe.)

Do you play PC? (Simple question)

These two questions will tell people enough. If you're not specialized, you have a very miniscule say in any Vehicle/AV debate, it is not your place to tell us how the vehicles and anti-vehicles should work, I won't whine about your AR, you don't whine about your swarms not killing a tank. Don't play PC? Again, not really qualified to talk about vehicle balance, PC changes the battlefield completely, with everyone pulling their best gear (Tanks being standard, AV being Officer.)

So the question, when do I get to go toe to toe with AVers?

Vehicles have a massive disadvantage at the minute, we have no way to compete against higher tier AV. Let's look at Vehicles and clear things up.

Militia Tank > Standard Tank (Enforcer Tanks come under this role, offering no real advantage other than slightly higher damage output, you cannot call this advanced.)

Militia LAV > Standard LAV (And Scout) > Logistics LAV (It's hench, let's admit it before someone cries.)

Militia Dropship > Standard Dropship (Assault/Logi included)

AV...

Militia Forge > Standard Forge > Advanced Forge > Prototype Forge > Officer Forge

Militia Swarms > Standard Swarms > Advanced Swarms > Prototype Swarms

Standard Plasma Cannon > Advanced Plasma Cannon > Prototype Plasma Cannon (Admittedly, these are awful.)

Standard AV Nades > Advanced AV Nades > Prototype AV Nades


Do we notice anything? Apart from the Logi LAV, no vehicle type has anything higher than a standard type vehicle, and let's be honest, this is the thing that is killing us, that is what's missing from the balance. Militia v Militia, it goes either way, Standard v Standard, Vehicles are survivable, anything above that usually means death to the Vehicle Player.

CCP needs to address this, and they need to offer a viable solution for it, it is not fun losing a vehicle simply because CCP hasn't put in the correct vehicles to combat the AV. If it needs to be done, AV tiers need to match Vehicle Tiers, resulting in standard AV fighting us.

TL;DR: Vehicle vs AV is pretty much balanced apart from Dropships and AV Grenades, we need the Advanced and Proto vehicles before CCP does any editing to the numbers.

But enough of my thoughts, speak to me on balance.

some people build decent tanks. recently i had to reload to pop one.

Well Im level 5 Prof. Swarms and I can tell you with MUCH experience to back me.. Swarms dont do **** to tanks or dropships.. So pretty much your whole post is complete BS, unless you are talking about going toe to toe with a Forge gun.. In which case they will pwn you probly.. Maybe be more specific, or just have the correct info .. not sure but SWARMS are definately BS now..

I'd say they addressed it by buffing the absolute **** out of LAVs/HAVs and now we have the Murdertaxi Herds all over the place.

As someone who has gone into Prototype AV (or at least intended it to be that way before realizing that Plasma Cannons aren't worth a damn) I can say that it's annoying having to deal with any form of vehicle as even Militia Tanks can survive Three ADV AV Grenades and a round from a Prototype Plasma Cannon.

Now, the reason I say that Tanks should be killed by Solo AV players is because honestly, if a tank driven by one person requires a team of AV guys, that's already setting an imbalance as the other team is now forced to sacrifice their anti-infantry capabilities.

When it takes an entire crew to run a Tank, I'll accept it taking an entire crew of AV to put it down.

Aye, it was the wrong move for the LAVs, also Plasma Cannons are ridiculously UP, we know this, nobody is arguing otherwise. Oh we do run crews for our tanks, but was is the point when you get three shotted anyways? With higher tier tanks that are more risky to bring out you're going to want infantry working with you a lot more.

I don't see it, honestly. Two militia tanks and a Gunnlogi absolutely decimated my team earlier and while I didn't have much issue with the Militia tanks (even though I was using Advanced grenades and a Prototype weapon FFS) I had -HELL- taking out the Gunnlogi.

I eventually put the Gunnlogi down and it put a smile on my face as I -EARNED- that kill, I -WORKED- for that kill.

Now imagine my surprise when the same damned tank came back ontop of a Skyscraper and was invulnerable to every form of AV available - including Orbital Strikes.

In PC av nades are pointless....unless the tank is a complete idiot and tries to solo ....AV should always scare tankers....that's their job. Forge guns are great dps and require some skill to use...tanks need to be able to shoot up. I think the balance could lean a bit more in favor to HAVs and lavs need a nerf

You used a Prototype Forge? I thought you said about a Plasma Cannon? Which is completely UP and needs a buff. You talk about three tanks, tell me how many AVers were on your team? Ones not using Militia Gear?

Teamwork is in various forms, when I run my Tank, I have 5 Infantry supporting (usually), I use the active scanner to make sure my Infantry finds the solo AVers, but if the Solo AVer is sitting on a roof just hitting me from a distance, that solo AVer will win even with my crew supporting me. That's 6 people for the Tank, and 1 person killing it. Two Standard Forge Guns will annihilate me, providing they know how to work together. 2 v 6, with it favouring 2 seems fair enough.

Also, that should be unavailable as an option for Tankers, the majority of buildings are "inaccessible" when you try to call a vehicle in, so go to the map support section and point out the coordinates that the Tanker managed to put his tank on.

Any of the skyscrapers. I've seen it in all of the maps that have the Caldari Communications towers.

And I never said anything about a Forge Gun so I dunno where you're getting that impression. Maybe it's time to stop hearing what you want to hear to continue your argument.

I think the title of this post should be ...

"when do I get to be invincible"

So a fully specd swarm launcher .. using 2x dmg mods, all rounds, nanohive, and chasing you across the entire map .

should not kill you? just checkin

Cuz we cant.. unless you have a shitbox tank or dropship

this is current.. and the truth coming from a level 5 pro swarm

I asked a question in the first part, apologies if I didn't make it clearer.

So you used a Plasma Cannon, the exact thing I've said is completely underpowered.

See, but you're evading the entire issue of AV as it stands.

If the Plasma Cannon is Underpowered, I'm told to use Swarm Launchers. I say Swarm Launchers don't work so I'm told to use Forge Guns. I say that in order to use Forge Guns I have to take a hit to my mobility which makes me an easy targets for Murder Taxis and you say use Av Grenades.

I use AV Grenades and you say they're over-powered. It's an endless cycle that I've heard since November/December 2012.

I think you are mistaken on your math. Even with double damage mods, and the 15% from proficiency, the Gastuns doesn't put out that much damage. Yes it can produce a longer firing sequence, and does better DPS/time than an assault forge, but it does not produce the numbers you are talking about.

Even if it did, the 5 million SP needed to field that fit means it should be able to rip up a tank. This applies less for the breach forge ,as the longer charge time mitigates some or your argument about getting wiped out quickly.

Yes, pretty much any PC battle means that a forge gunner up top can kill you in a magazine if you mismanage your modules, or have a bad fit. That is PC for you. Everyone has the gear, so be prepared. If your team can't clear the roof, enjoy the redline, and hiding.

I'll add more later, time to go watch football.

I find it extremely frustrating how you can hop and jump around with a swarm launcher while also locking on and firing. This makes it extremely difficult to ever actually kill a Swarm player when going one on one while in a tank.
Forge gun shot trails and hit indicators are also very poor.

Swarms and plasma cannons should not be fire-able while jumping.
Forge gun shot trails should be a bit more noticeable and linger for longer.

Also Swarm launcher pathing still very much needs a fix. They currently can follow around corners in situations where they should not. They are also capable of traveling through the tops of a number of hills and also through crates in several locations.

Believe me, I am not "Mistaken". My fits are more than decent and yet they cannot survive more than three shots from the forge guns. It kills me in seconds, that I can assure you and that is from a solo gunner.
.

Gastuns Forge does 1584 damage per shot, with shots every 1.7 seconds.

Add in 15% from prof 5, and that gives you 1822.

Pretend there are no stacking penalties and add for two damage mods to get to 2204.

Now remove your 10% passive bonus to get 1984.

So yeah, you are mistaken.