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Second Cerberus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2013.05.17 04:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Perhaps I missed this info somewhere, but I haven't seen any ETA on race specific Heavy dropsuits. Only the Amarr Sentinel appears to be available right now, forcing a Caldari or Gallente player to run a "Basic" Heavy Frame to get two high slots. Has there been any word on when the other races Heavies will be added?
Also, to unlock even the "Basic" Amarr Heavy you need to invest 1.8 million skill points. When additional race specific Heavies are added, has there been discussion of permitting players with Level 5 Amarr Heavy to transfer those points to another race? I ask because I want to run Heavy, but if the current SP respec offer is the only way to get that 1.8 million back I may be forced to run a generic logi and sit on the unallocated points until the other Heavy suits are released.
Thanks for any info you can provide on these questions. |
DropKickSuicide
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
114
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Posted - 2013.05.17 04:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
They will be here SOON And no word on how they will handle SP |
DS 10
G I A N T EoN.
282
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Posted - 2013.05.17 04:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't know if this has been addressed, but I know all of us heavies are wondering how it is going to work. I think anytime there is a new dropsuit released, you should be able to transfer any SP you have in another suit to the new one, regardless of suit type.
For example:
Joe wants to be a Caldari Heavy but they don't exist yet. Instead of being an Amarr Heavy, he opts for Caldari Logi. In 4 months, Caldari Heavies are released. He still really wants to be a Caldari Heavy. He should be able to transfer SP from his Caldari Logi dropsuit skills to the Caldari Heavy suit skills.
I have no idea how that would work, or if it's even possible, but that would be optimal IMO. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1368
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 04:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
DS 10 wrote:I don't know if this has been addressed, but I know all of us heavies are wondering how it is going to work. I think anytime there is a new dropsuit released, you should be able to transfer any SP you have in another suit to the new one, regardless of suit type.
For example:
Joe wants to be a Caldari Heavy but they don't exist yet. Instead of being an Amarr Heavy, he opts for Caldari Logi. In 4 months, Caldari Heavies are released. He still really wants to be a Caldari Heavy. He should be able to transfer SP from his Caldari Logi dropsuit skills to the Caldari Heavy suit skills.
I have no idea how that would work, or if it's even possible, but that would be optimal IMO. I doubt it will happen every time they release a new suit, but it certainly has to happen for the other racial variants. |
crazy space 1
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
1172
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Posted - 2013.05.17 04:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
It WILL happen with every released suit, same with tanks/LAVs, and dropships. The game is is still in beta phase so they have to give out respec since all the races are still unreleased.
That said if they do it they will only give you back the sp of skills effected. |
Human Anamoly
Planetary Response Organization
4
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Posted - 2013.05.17 04:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:It WILL happen with every released suit, same with tanks/LAVs, and dropships. The game is is still in beta phase so they have to give out respec since all the races are still unreleased.
That said if they do it they will only give you back the sp of skills effected.
'Beta Phase', but not beta. Sounds like an excuse to release content late and whine when players want to spec into that content after using all their points. |
Second Cerberus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2013.05.17 12:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks for the replies, it sounds like there has not been much information on how CCP plans to manage the addition of Heavy racial variants.
As there are a lot of players in heavies, would someone on CPM be willing to 'poke' CCP for an answer? I'm not looking for exact dates/stats but trying to answer the question? I can run the "Basic" Amarr with two highs for now to shield tank, but dont want to miss the skill respec window if thats the only way to get the Amarr SP back.
Specifically:
When additional race specific Heavies are added, has there been discussion of permitting players with Level 5 Amarr Heavy to transfer those points to another race?
Thanks |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
108
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 13:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Remnant proposed to add all the racial variant under Amarr so we can at least get the diversity until they finish the models I guess. This could be great and would reduce the "Soon" period.
I do believe they will have some kind of respec for heavy suit user, so they can respec in the race they really wanted in the first place. Looking forward to use the Minmatar. |
DeeJay One
BetaMax. CRONOS.
28
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Posted - 2013.05.17 13:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think a "respec" will be rather only for the currently missing ones. Next time we will get new suits for all races at once and it will be something new to skill into, not something else - so that means no respec from X Assault to say X Commando |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
108
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Posted - 2013.05.17 13:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
I am making the coming optional respec and then I wont put any SP in dropsuit, will be using militia even though it is bad. Just don't want to end up with a few Millions SP missing to skill the new Racial suit I want.
Not taking any chances. I still do okay with the militia BPO equiped with cheap modules and a MH82. |
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Heavy Breaks
Ill Omens EoN.
47
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Posted - 2013.05.17 14:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would imagine speccing to lvl 5 of basic heavy suit will still be a prerequisite for the racial variants. So I'll be taking the reset and speccing pretty much up to that till my winmatar heavy comes along. 4 low and 1 high is rubbish anyway IMHO. I got yellabros! |
Full Metal Kitten
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
337
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Heavy Breaks wrote:I would imagine speccing to lvl 5 of basic heavy suit will still be a prerequisite for the racial variants There are no basic frame skills. They are all racial.
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
109
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Heavy Breaks wrote:I would imagine speccing to lvl 5 of basic heavy suit will still be a prerequisite for the racial variants. So I'll be taking the reset and speccing pretty much up to that till my winmatar heavy comes along. 4 low and 1 high is rubbish anyway IMHO. I got yellabros!
Basic are Amarr basic
So if you skill Basic, you do choose Amarr. Look at the medium suit skill tree, this is how it will look like. |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
278
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
You don't need 1.8 million SP to get into a basic heavy. There are militia heavies, so you could do it with no skill points. Also you only need Amarr Heavy Frame Level 1 to get the standard "basic" heavy frame. By the time you spend 1.8 you have the prototype "basic" heavy frame. Going Sentinel just restarts the process but with slight bonuses, which are hardly worth it. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4253
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
There is no ETA other than its in the pipeline.
As for what CCP does with SP involed it will be up to them.
I would personally like to see the specific skills (amarr heavy and amarr sentinel suits) allowing you to change your race if you need to. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
259
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:17:00 -
[16] - Quote
This should, and will most likely, be handled with a Heavy Suit skill respec, so you points invested in Amarr Heavies will return to unallocated as and when the skills are added for the other racial suits.
The same should go for the scouts since (correct if I'm wrong) we only have 2 of the racial varients there.
As for DS 10s idea that someone wanted to play a particular racial heavy, without knowing it's bonuses or slot configuration, but as that suit wasn't available yet, so they train for a completely different role. Lol no ... if you want to play a heavy class, there's onethere ... use it till the others are released and change when they release the others, you shouldn't and most likely won't be able to respec from a differwnt role. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1372
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote: As for DS 10s idea that someone wanted to play a particular racial heavy, without knowing it's bonuses or slot configuration, but as that suit wasn't available yet, so they train for a completely different role. Lol no ... if you want to play a heavy class, there's onethere ... use it till the others are released and change when they release the others, you shouldn't and most likely won't be able to respec from a differwnt role.
There's plenty of people who went assault or logi just because they didn't like the Amarr heavy. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1628
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
If CCP follows EVE as their example of doing things, I won't expect a respec everytime a new suit comes out. Tbh, I'm not sure if I want it either.
This game is about investing your SP wisely, and living with your decision. CCP gave us one respec already, and will give us another as soon as the skill tree is redone.
Do I think it's cool that they didn't have any other heavy suit for release? No, it sucks!. I wanted to have a choice. They gave us the Amarr frame, and the same ol HMG...well a nerfed version of the HMG. Chances are the other suits coming 4-6 months from now, as the dev said they're not coming "soon enough".
4-6 months is enough time to save up SP to get the race you want. In the mean time, explore other classes, and weapons. Personally, I'm also running Amarr Medium, and saving SP to go into Scrambler Rifles.
Yeah it sucks we didn't get races to choose from, but should we expect a respec everytime something new comes out? No. |
K9 Wez
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
40
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Posted - 2013.05.17 16:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Can someone please explain to me why CCP released a game with missing content? Whats the reason for not releasing all the racial heavy suits as well as scout suits?
Normally if gaming companies did that they would get slaughtered by game critics but for some reason ccp isn't, why is that? I am obviously not seeing what others seems to be seeing, what is reason for ccp not getting heat for this? But then again dust has very few players for a free access game. Hmm, could the reason be that the game is free so they dont seem to be taking dust seriously, that is ccp as well as game critics? |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
278
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There is no ETA other than its in the pipeline.
As for what CCP does with SP involed it will be up to them.
I would personally like to see the specific skills (amarr heavy and amarr sentinel suits) allowing you to change your race if you need to. That doesn't work because some people who want to be say Gallente Heavy don't have the option now so are doing perhaps one of the medium suits in the meantime. And then they get all the skills focused around that medium suit (weapons and mods and stuff). When the other heavy suits (and light suits) come in there needs to be another optional full respec. Hopefully they can get all the remaining suit frames out in one big push so we're not constantly doing this respec thing. |
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Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic ROFL BROS
1372
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:If CCP follows EVE as their example of doing things, I won't expect a respec everytime a new suit comes out. Tbh, I'm not sure if I want it either.
This game is about investing your SP wisely, and living with your decision. CCP gave us one respec already, and will give us another as soon as the skill tree is redone.
Do I think it's cool that they didn't have any other heavy suit for release? No, it sucks!. I wanted to have a choice. They gave us the Amarr frame, and the same ol HMG...well a nerfed version of the HMG. Chances are the other suits coming 4-6 months from now, as the dev said they're not coming "soon enough".
4-6 months is enough time to save up SP to get the race you want. In the mean time, explore other classes, and weapons. Personally, I'm also running Amarr Medium, and saving SP to go into Scrambler Rifles.
Yeah it sucks we didn't get races to choose from, but should we expect a respec everytime something new comes out? No. Of course you're right, but this isn't just any random "new content", these should have been the bare minimum as far as "release' content goes. Or is asking that all classes have an equal amount of choice too much CCP? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4254
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 16:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There is no ETA other than its in the pipeline.
As for what CCP does with SP involed it will be up to them.
I would personally like to see the specific skills (amarr heavy and amarr sentinel suits) allowing you to change your race if you need to. That doesn't work because some people who want to be say Gallente Heavy don't have the option now so are doing perhaps one of the medium suits in the meantime. And then they get all the skills focused around that medium suit (weapons and mods and stuff). When the other heavy suits (and light suits) come in there needs to be another optional full respec. Hopefully they can get all the remaining suit frames out in one big push so we're not constantly doing this respec thing.
Like I said earlier I don't expect a full respec ever unless there is significant changes to the tree such as redoing all of its bonuses, or layout even to the point you cannot be doing what you where doing previously before.
In this scenario chances are they would probably just refund the heavy only skill since other races don't exist yet.
Had it been all racial suits where available but skill was unified to be split then ccp would likely give automatic levels in the skills that got split.
Just because they add pilot suits, doesnt mean you will get a respec, just because they added commando suits doesnt mean you get a respec. just because they added MAVs and their SCV cousins doens't mean you get a respec. Just because you got a rail rifle doenst mean you got a respec. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1629
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 17:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:If CCP follows EVE as their example of doing things, I won't expect a respec everytime a new suit comes out. Tbh, I'm not sure if I want it either.
This game is about investing your SP wisely, and living with your decision. CCP gave us one respec already, and will give us another as soon as the skill tree is redone.
Do I think it's cool that they didn't have any other heavy suit for release? No, it sucks!. I wanted to have a choice. They gave us the Amarr frame, and the same ol HMG...well a nerfed version of the HMG. Chances are the other suits coming 4-6 months from now, as the dev said they're not coming "soon enough".
4-6 months is enough time to save up SP to get the race you want. In the mean time, explore other classes, and weapons. Personally, I'm also running Amarr Medium, and saving SP to go into Scrambler Rifles.
Yeah it sucks we didn't get races to choose from, but should we expect a respec everytime something new comes out? No. Of course you're right, but this isn't just any random "new content", these should have been the bare minimum as far as "release' content goes. Or is asking that all classes have an equal amount of choice too much CCP?
I understand fully well where you're coming from. I had this convo with my corpmates a few times... more of a monologue or soliloquy
At the end I said whatever. They're giving me time to get SP for when the new suits come out. I'll have 2 heavy suits if I choose to go a different race. Is that such a bad thing though? Having 2 suits means your role just got broader in terms of gameplay style.
CCP should have given heavies more races to pick from, but they didn't, so I'm just gonna save SP for when they do. No big deal imo. |
ZiwZih
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
146
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 17:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
I remember the story, but not sure where it was. IRC and with CCP Nothin probably, where it was mentioned that as the racial Heavy suits are not coming soon-soon, they would like to see if people want Type-II or other variants of Amarr.
But then, whole post-Uprising has happened to them, I think they forgot to communicate this issue. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1630
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 17:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
ZiwZih wrote:I remember the story, but not sure where it was. IRC and with CCP Nothin probably, where it was mentioned that as the racial Heavy suits are not coming soon-soon, they would like to see if people want Type-II or other variants of Amarr.
But then, whole post-Uprising has happened to them, I think they forgot to communicate this issue.
that was mentioned in a thread I had. Don't think anyone wanted it.
People don't want another Amarr variation; heavies seen the bloody same Amarr suit for over a year now. Adding back OLD suits to a new build...yea THAT'S what people would want CCP
People didn't hate the new Amarr suit, they hated the fact that we didn't get a choice in the matter. |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
279
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 17:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Delirium Inferno wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:There is no ETA other than its in the pipeline.
As for what CCP does with SP involed it will be up to them.
I would personally like to see the specific skills (amarr heavy and amarr sentinel suits) allowing you to change your race if you need to. That doesn't work because some people who want to be say Gallente Heavy don't have the option now so are doing perhaps one of the medium suits in the meantime. And then they get all the skills focused around that medium suit (weapons and mods and stuff). When the other heavy suits (and light suits) come in there needs to be another optional full respec. Hopefully they can get all the remaining suit frames out in one big push so we're not constantly doing this respec thing. Like I said earlier I don't expect a full respec ever unless there is significant changes to the tree such as redoing all of its bonuses, or layout even to the point you cannot be doing what you where doing previously before. In this scenario chances are they would probably just refund the heavy only skill since other races don't exist yet. Had it been all racial suits where available but skill was unified to be split then ccp would likely give automatic levels in the skills that got split. Just because they add pilot suits, doesnt mean you will get a respec, just because they added commando suits doesnt mean you get a respec. just because they added MAVs and their SCV cousins doens't mean you get a respec. Just because you got a rail rifle doenst mean you got a respec. No, I agree with you that just because they add specializations to suits like Pilot and Commando or add new vehicles like fighter jets doesn't mean that CCP should give you a respec. But if they do something as fundamental as add racial basic variants then that would qualify as need for a respec in my opinion. And again it would have to be a full respec because it completely changes how you skill everything you have, just like CCP is offering a full respec because they are simply reducing the skill multiplier of a skill. By your logic they should just give everyone the skill points back for those skills, but CCP understands that it affects everything else you do and are thus offering the optional full respec.
And keep in mind, I am suggesting that ideally this would only happen one time by adding the 5 suits (Caldari Light Basic, Amarr Light Basic, Caldari Heavy Basic, Gallente Heavy Basic, and Minmatar Heavy Basic) in one big update. Anything else they add like pilot specialization or speeder bikes or whatever would not qualify for a respec. |
Second Cerberus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 19:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thanks for the reply Iron Wolf. It is appreciated.
At the least I hope CCP considers refunding any SP spent within a dropsuit skill tree when a racial variant is added to that tree. I think that's what you were suggesting as your preference. Players should be confident in spending their SP now and enjoying the content we do have. This game will be a lot less enjoyable if players are hoarding their SP trying to avoid wasting months of SP on a tree they don't really want but have to skill into to even play as a heavy.
Someone mentioned you don't need 1.8 million SP to play Heavy. That is true, however I stated that it requires 1.8 million invested in Amarr Heavy Suits to shield tank. (unlock the Basic Advanced A/1 - Series) If you want to play as a shield heavy (which most Gallente or Caldari players probably would) then that is the only suit with more than 1 high slot and so it is the only suit where "shield tanking" is even remotely possible (though still not really tanking with only two slots).
Also, suggesting you just run militia heavy with 1 high and 1 low slot and limited CPU/PG for months is kind of silly. No suits should be a position at launch where the "smart move" is to only run militia. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
997
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 19:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:If CCP follows EVE as their example of doing things, I won't expect a respec everytime a new suit comes out. Tbh, I'm not sure if I want it either.
This game is about investing your SP wisely, and living with your decision. CCP gave us one respec already, and will give us another as soon as the skill tree is redone.
Do I think it's cool that they didn't have any other heavy suit for release? No, it sucks!. I wanted to have a choice. They gave us the Amarr frame, and the same ol HMG...well a nerfed version of the HMG. Chances are the other suits coming 4-6 months from now, as the dev said they're not coming "soon enough".
4-6 months is enough time to save up SP to get the race you want. In the mean time, explore other classes, and weapons. Personally, I'm also running Amarr Medium, and saving SP to go into Scrambler Rifles.
Yeah it sucks we didn't get races to choose from, but should we expect a respec everytime something new comes out? No. There's a difference between living with a decision and being able to have something to decide from. The least they could do is offer an optional respec just for your suit when the racial ones do come out. |
Delirium Inferno
Edoras Corporation
287
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:If CCP follows EVE as their example of doing things, I won't expect a respec everytime a new suit comes out. Tbh, I'm not sure if I want it either.
This game is about investing your SP wisely, and living with your decision. CCP gave us one respec already, and will give us another as soon as the skill tree is redone.
Do I think it's cool that they didn't have any other heavy suit for release? No, it sucks!. I wanted to have a choice. They gave us the Amarr frame, and the same ol HMG...well a nerfed version of the HMG. Chances are the other suits coming 4-6 months from now, as the dev said they're not coming "soon enough".
4-6 months is enough time to save up SP to get the race you want. In the mean time, explore other classes, and weapons. Personally, I'm also running Amarr Medium, and saving SP to go into Scrambler Rifles.
Yeah it sucks we didn't get races to choose from, but should we expect a respec everytime something new comes out? No. There's a difference between living with a decision and being able to have something to decide from. The least they could do is offer an optional respec just for your suit when the racial ones do come out. The problem again is that not having something to decide changes all the skills you get. I know several guys who want to be a heavy but not an Amarr heavy, some went with Amarr Heavy anyways while they wait but others went with medium suits since Amarr Heavy isn't close enough to the type of heavy role they want. And those people who go into medium suits for the meantime end up spec'ing into light weapons and a piece of equipment and stuff to make that medium suit viable. Now CCP adds the other racial basic suits but only offer a respec to those who have skills in Amarr Heavy Basic and Amarr Sentinel. That doesn't get the job done.
Honestly I'm more surprised that CCP is offering an optional full respec because they are lowering the skill multiplier for dropsuits. They argued that it changed the players entire process of what they would of skilled into, but frankly I'm not seeing it. So it wouldn't make sense if CCP offered an optional full respec for something as minuscule as this but when they do something that is absolutely fundamental to the game with the racial basic variants that they would only partially refund skills.
And for clarification, I'm not saying adding anything to the game should demand a respec, that's silly. But these 5 basic frames we do not have are so absolutely core and fundamental to the game and it's quite ridiculous they didn't make it into launch to be honest. |
Another Heavy SOB
TRUE TEA BAGGERS Orion Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 22:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
martinofski wrote:CCP Remnant proposed to add all the racial variant under Amarr so we can at least get the diversity until they finish the models I guess. This could be great and would reduce the "Soon" period.
I do believe they will have some kind of respec for heavy suit user, so they can respec in the race they really wanted in the first place. Looking forward to use the Minmatar.
Actually Remnant proposed the idea of bringing back the Type II Shield variants.
It was a community member who suggested using the same Ammar skin for All of the different racial suits, which IMO there's not a snowballs chance in Hell of that happening.
Ammar Heavy, and Ammar Sentinel skills should be optionally refunded when the new suits arrive. But ONLY those skills, nothing else. |
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