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Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:07:00 -
[61] - Quote
Quote:Controls?
This is a very legitimate gripe. Just about ALL of even the crappiest games ever made on PC still come with a menu where you can customize the key layout, and it's really common in console games that have competitive elements as well. They recently added "alternate" layouts for controllers, but they still aren't willing to just hand the player a list of functions and let them attach the button/key they want.
This is dead stupid. It's not a complicated feature. It's not something that requires balance. It's something managed in just about every game ever released. Dust is released. Controls you don't like shouldn't be something you just cope with. How you interface with the game itself is about as basic and fundamental to the game as things get. It's easily the first shooter I've seen with keyboard support that said basically, "use our mappings or gtfo". I still hate the controller options too, and it seems stupid that a list of functions we could assign buttons to wasn't part of the initial release.
Unless you're a coder yourself and have a simpler solution to offer to include customisable layouts in the current iteration of the engine, you can't just call it "dead stupid". Constructive criticism is one thing, calling something explicitly crap without offering an alternative and explaining the methodology is something else entirely. Now, I would agree with you actually that the lack of control customisation is a drawback to the experience on the game. I'm pretty sure it's on CCP's to do list along with a whole range of other updates and expansions to come, as I explained previously.
Quote:So, yeah. If I reviewed MMOs, I'd say this game sucks too. It's like being an RPG player handed a shooter with only a head to head player mode, no single-player, etc. What else would you make of it?
What would I make of it? A work in progress with a lot of potential. You can say "it's out of beta" all you like, but technically, even EVE is still in beta, and has a lot more potential. That's the beauty of it. And now, with the two of them together, it opens up a whole range of all new potentials that have never existed in any other game ever. Not one, not ever. That's the potential in this game, which is the potential for an epic cross-platform gaming experience that by just going "it's crap" and qq'ing over will not produce.
That's the potential that you either want to be a part of, or you don't, but I don't suppose you would understand if you've never experienced EVE and are so willing to throw it under a steamroller just because it doesn't stack up to either games that it doesn't compare to, or games that have established titles and audiences. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
715
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:09:00 -
[62] - Quote
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote:CCP really needs to do a better job bringing new players into the fold.
This guy was reviewing the game for a major online MMO news/review site, and didn't even join any squads or try getting together with a corporation. Imagine how lost a MMO newb would feel. No, this isn't about 'lone wolfing' or anything like that.
DUST is a game that will grow gradually over years. The core players here understand this and we're very much like those who joined EVE Online in the early days.
One can't force people to see a (realistic) vision of what a continuously developed game will be like to someone who is used to release->next game kind of game development.
Ignore the reviews, cause unless CCP fucks this up we'll still be playing in a few years time. |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
12
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:11:00 -
[63] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote: One can't force people to see a (realistic) vision of what a continuously developed game will be like to someone who is used to release->next game kind of game development.
And for this, I blame EA entirely. Compared to them, CCP are like ******* gods. Viking gods, from Iceland. |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
234
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:12:00 -
[64] - Quote
"yet he can't understand how the skill system works or anything"
yeah i called him out for that. he claims he spent no time on it beause the bigger game didn't interest him.
didn't have the heart to point out that that's not really how "objectivity" works in the world of reporting.
but again, i claim this guy to be a codboi... it was too hard for him. he came, he saw, he got pub stomped and left back to EvE.
really how hard is it to hit trianlge on the skill screen and make a mental note that "oh this suit cools down my weapon faster. i'm using an AR. ars don't overheat, ergo, that's not really the suit im looking for"?
he seriously compared it to Tolkien.
guy's gotta be slow.
Peace B |
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
Damn double posts. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
495
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Posted - 2013.05.15 23:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Bassmeant, I swear, a couple months ago you were absolutely hating on CCP. Now, all the posts I've come across of yours seem to be defending them in some way or another. What happened?! |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3146
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote:CCP really needs to do a better job bringing new players into the fold.
This guy was reviewing the game for a major online MMO news/review site, and didn't even join any squads or try getting together with a corporation. Imagine how lost a MMO newb would feel.
This game sucks for lone wolfing, but is awesome playing in squads and CCP needs to make this apparent for new players.
this. can only imagine how solo must feel lol |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
234
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 23:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
i never hate on anything.
i just call it like i see.
the truth hurts most times. it's not what you're gonna wanna hear.
i DO hate on zipper because they didn't listen and EVERYTHING they were told by some unpaid beta tester(s) came true to a T and they could have avoided the whole thing if they would have listened.
CCP keeps doing this weird 2 step where they go in one direction and then do a 180 out of nowhere. ok a 160, where 20 of it is cool but the 160 is wtf?
i still hope that this game has the traction to be worth playing. i hope the same of the players. not sure which i have less faith in. if PC has legs then we could see a nice lil era in competitive gaming and all the ish talk that goes along with it. been a long time since a game had that. mag started to, then the devs got scared for the casuals and the whole thing dumped. now it's feeling like MAG 514, sorta. no hate, just trying to warn folks they are making a mistake. sorry... remaing a mistake that others have already made.
but for some shipdit at massively who is gettin paid to review the damn thing to basically "phone it in" because of stuff that technically he coulda avoided if he woulda done some research and not just jumped in **** first and then blame the game for it, hell yeah i'm gonna call that codboi out. same way i call out the protoads for gettin the range nerfed because most of em suck. it's all balanced. an objective. this ain' hate. it's just facts. and again, the dude found the skill system confusing.
lord knows how he drives a car.
"What's D for again?"
Peace B
|
Cinnamon267
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
55
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Posted - 2013.05.16 00:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
Seems fair, to be honest, It is day 1 impressions. Not really a "review". He will, hopefully, continue to play and see what the game has to offer. Day 1 the controls aren't great. I don't notice it anymore. Except for CQC.
He did notice it's good qualities. His negatives are the same things we are complaining about. He didn't hate it. Which is a good thing :)
Being a brand new person in this game must be super hard and frustrating. But, time solves those issues. Even after the first day you'll have an OK understanding of what the hell is happening. It wasn't anywhere near as harsh as some of the comments here suggest. |
Surt gods end
Demon Ronin
105
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 00:07:00 -
[70] - Quote
A lot people are going to rip this game. And not every one is "cod boi" just because they don't like it. lol (looking at you bass)
My buddies won't touch this with a ten foot pole. "CLAN BATTLES ARE CLAN BATTLES. WHATS THIS CORP CRAP? SOUNDS LIKE MMO TALK. DCUO "CORPS" WANT TO PLAY AS FPS BIG BOYS?" Usually around that from some fps clans I know.
Come on we all been playing the same game. PC is corp battles. and if you don't care a rats ass about eve, then its just corp battles. Me? I found I'm having fun in this game. But on my terms. Lone wolfing in skirmish or FW is a blast for me. Got invites from corps but why would I join? And if you are an eve fan then this is like being able to "touch the planet huh?" Tho I'm sure PVE many on here want. heck if it comes out, I'll try it out.
I know why this is gong to get ripped. So do you. But if your already having fun.. then why bloody care. That was honest review. You think he's wrong? go over to meta critic. user reviews wrong too? wait for the critics reviews. them wrong too? well now we know who rates this game a 10. for me its a 7. nothing to be ashamed about. |
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Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
22
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Posted - 2013.05.16 00:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
Phoenix Arakyd wrote:http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/15/massivelys-dust-514-launch-impressions/
He is far from wrong.
Though, I disagree on the skill customization as a PRO. There is no customization when everyone is choosing to be one specialization. Assault -> Tactical Assault Rifle. It's just a shooter with one mode. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
200
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 00:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Jaron Pollard wrote:Quote:Controls?
This is a very legitimate gripe. Just about ALL of even the crappiest games ever made on PC still come with a menu where you can customize the key layout, and it's really common in console games that have competitive elements as well. They recently added "alternate" layouts for controllers, but they still aren't willing to just hand the player a list of functions and let them attach the button/key they want.
This is dead stupid. It's not a complicated feature. It's not something that requires balance. It's something managed in just about every game ever released. Dust is released. Controls you don't like shouldn't be something you just cope with. How you interface with the game itself is about as basic and fundamental to the game as things get. It's easily the first shooter I've seen with keyboard support that said basically, "use our mappings or gtfo". I still hate the controller options too, and it seems stupid that a list of functions we could assign buttons to wasn't part of the initial release. Unless you're a coder yourself and have a simpler solution to offer to include customisable layouts in the current iteration of the engine, you can't just call it "dead stupid". Constructive criticism is one thing, calling something explicitly crap without offering an alternative and explaining the methodology is something else entirely. Now, I would agree with you actually that the lack of control customisation is a drawback to the experience on the game. I'm pretty sure it's on CCP's to do list along with a whole range of other updates and expansions to come, as I explained previously. Quote:So, yeah. If I reviewed MMOs, I'd say this game sucks too. It's like being an RPG player handed a shooter with only a head to head player mode, no single-player, etc. What else would you make of it? What would I make of it?
My point was mostly that if you're a reviewer of MMORPGs, the game is going to seem impossibly barren. It won't even seem like it belongs in the same category. I think I noted with respect to the universe that you it's not accessible to the Dust player specifically. Learning about the lore or finding about things requires supplemental reading on the internet - it's not accessible inside Dust. If you're a PS3-only player you might play this, but never even glimpse the larger universe because it would require searching online. The game for you is just a deathmatch game. What faction you fight for in the game has no impact on anything you're capable of perceiving or learning about within the game, and has no different rewards.
As for the controls... I'm not sure if you're serious, or if you want me to type out the code? In short, the user inputs have defined functions in the game, right? Like, if they wrote an "if" or "switch" function for a player pressing 'W' meaning they walk forward. Of course, they didn't use just 'W', so we know they didn't have fixed values here.
Currently, there are multiple controller schemes. That means the functions aren't tied to fixed inputs, a hypothetical shooting function can already be executed by several different buttons. There's more than a few ways to do that as well, but with fixed controller schemes the functions looking for the corresponding input scheme could be pointing to a list, since they're fixed.
The gist of writing player access to the controls is to create a list of all the "infantry" controls - just put em in a column. There aren't that many of them. Normal function would be to have the player hit "X" on any value in the column they want to change, then wait for player input. When the player presses a button, the variable storing that input value in the control scheme is replaced by whatever the player hit - and an if function for the button being elsewhere in the column leaves that other listing blank if the button was already in use (so that pressing R1 doesn't become "fire" and "jump" at the same time). When you're done, hit save or exit. The result is functionally identical to any of our existing control schemes. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 00:50:00 -
[73] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:I thought it was a good article and true. We need honest critiques that highlight the good and the bad. I rather get a guy who doesn't paint himself as a fanboi of other games and takes every game for itself from the raw. Clearly this guy hates New Eden and doesn't understand it.
i dont exactly understand new eden.
ive been playing since feb or so. it seems new eden doesnt like real money coming its way. ive bought 4 merc packs. chromosome was so fun. nowadays its just getting by till things get better. i dont see the point of buying active boosters and suits. battle isnt fun. we sit in lobbies and bs. its a blast but i can do that elsewhere. are you guys gonna do anything about community concerns? are the forums the only place to talk? u guys go into the field?
hit me up sometime saber. u cud hear what ppl who dont frequent this forum feel about this game. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
238
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 03:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Knarf Black wrote:ALM1GHTY B44L R00 wrote:CCP really needs to do a better job bringing new players into the fold.
This guy was reviewing the game for a major online MMO news/review site, and didn't even join any squads or try getting together with a corporation. Imagine how lost a MMO newb would feel.
This game sucks for lone wolfing, but is awesome playing in squads and CCP needs to make this apparent for new players. Preach the truth, brotha! Heck, this game sucks for lone wolfing at 9.5 million SP. I can't imagine what the NPE is like. New players have to do way too much work with their fittings, too. None of the reviews are going to take into account the times that you are stuck with the exact same fittings for months on end while grinding the SP for a proto suit. I played like 5 matches on my alt in Academy (then I WP capped)....to be honest fighting players with equal gear/sp is more fun then the regular game.
This is why I think battles should be separated by sec status and then gear should be restricted according to the security. Use the total meta number from the entire suit or go by tier. I know where I belong but I can't choose to be there. I don't want to stomp noobs but I don't want to get stomped by 6 of the best players either. Make the battles segregated so that casuals can find their difficulty level and also offer all the FW and PC as anything goes. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4121
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 03:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The Robot Devil wrote:I thought it was a good article and true. We need honest critiques that highlight the good and the bad. I rather get a guy who doesn't paint himself as a fanboi of other games and takes every game for itself from the raw. Clearly this guy hates New Eden and doesn't understand it. i dont exactly understand new eden. ive been playing since feb or so. it seems new eden doesnt like real money coming its way. ive bought 4 merc packs. chromosome was so fun. nowadays its just getting by till things get better. i dont see the point of buying active boosters and suits. battle isnt fun. we sit in lobbies and bs. its a blast but i can do that elsewhere. are you guys gonna do anything about community concerns? are the forums the only place to talk? u guys go into the field? hit me up sometime saber. u cud hear what ppl who dont frequent this forum feel about this game.
Soon as the house stops burning for a bit Ill be entrenching soon enough. |
Schalac 17
Murderz for hire
129
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 04:23:00 -
[76] - Quote
BASSMEANT wrote:the guy's a moron
he has trouble understanding the skill system even after it was dumbed down. SO when you first started you knew what every skill did and what it unlocked. Also what levels of different skills effect your toon and fits and were able to precisely apply all your SP in such a manner that not one was wasted. I'm thinking you are the moron here, and CCP needs to add a better interface for comparing items and seeing what each skill unlocks. Unlike EVE, DUST is way more convoluted as to what all you need to make the fit you are after, and the only reason I say EVE is better at it is because of addons like EVEMON and PYFA. But unlike the PC most DUST users aren't going to download a program on their PC to help them navigate the maze that is the skill tree.
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 04:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
Quote:Soon as the house stops burning for a bit Ill be entrenching soon enough.
Get a Tack AR if u want to compete. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3017
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 04:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Quote:Soon as the house stops burning for a bit Ill be entrenching soon enough. Get a Tack AR if u want to compete. Fixed.
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 06:01:00 -
[79] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:You know what is the bigger's problem with Dust 514 ?
That it's own community is trying to kill the game...I have never seen anything like this before, and i been playing games for many, many years.
Dust 514 have one of the more divided communities ever. Is actually socking .... This is actually kind of comforting. Reminds me of the social politics in Eve Online. Now that it is clear the Devs are listening and changing the game based on input expect it to get worse. Throw in the double whammy that we can have Land Real Estate and some people will go all out.
Then again anonymous places with no real life consequences on the internet aren't exactly encouraging for civil or mature behaviors. _
One part of his review was very validating for me. Last year I warned about the whole aviation thing and got slammed for being unrealistic and self serving for suggesting we get a flight stick. Only the most basic thing for manned aircraft. If they had kept the old pictch/yaw roll/camera-pan stick combos this game really would have been shredded by anyone whose played a flight simulator. And rightfully so. The only sad part is the reviewer didn't just invert Y to fix that particular issue. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4123
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 06:05:00 -
[80] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:Quote:Soon as the house stops burning for a bit Ill be entrenching soon enough. Get a Tack AR if u want to compete. Fixed.
I want one of those! I want the one that shoots rainbow color, in order. Maybe change out the clips for certain holidays such as breast cancer month, or Christmas.
As for skilling up I am doing just fine being milita gear locked due to the fact that to get anywhere near my old chromosome build I had to sacrificed all of my advanced gear sets and I even don't have full shields and armor skills maxed out yet. Sigh.... 500k sp more to go before I can focus on getting HAVs and Dropships. |
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Calroon DeVil
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
23
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Posted - 2013.05.16 06:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Finally it's offical, CCP being so proud of creating a medicore and dated FPS shooter with sluggish controls and dated visuals,hilarious. Thank god EVE players pay for this experiement. Well, what did we expect really? This being on PS3 and made by CCP Shanghai who have no clue about FPS games.
Of course it has "potential", that's why we're all still here right? So in 10 years, just like it happened to EVE, we might have a playable version. Can't wait. |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
17
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 06:17:00 -
[82] - Quote
That was a pretty fair review.
I would note that I dont personally find the overall system too complex at all but 1. I have played EVE 2. I am a pc gamer by heart, we are used to having to mess around with things.
I know consoles are much more suited for casuals and the young'uns so you have got to bear this in mind.
His cons were spot on. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3026
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 06:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:I know consoles are much more suited for casuals and the young'uns so you have got to bear this in mind.
I would facepalm, but we don't have a smiley for that. |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
435
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 07:02:00 -
[84] - Quote
Game needs better graphics, better controls, better frame rate.
Fair review. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
241
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 09:34:00 -
[85] - Quote
Schalac 17 wrote:BASSMEANT wrote:the guy's a moron
he has trouble understanding the skill system even after it was dumbed down. SO when you first started you knew what every skill did and what it unlocked. Also what levels of different skills effect your toon and fits and were able to precisely apply all your SP in such a manner that not one was wasted. I'm thinking you are the moron here, and CCP needs to add a better interface for comparing items and seeing what each skill unlocks. Unlike EVE, DUST is way more convoluted as to what all you need to make the fit you are after, and the only reason I say EVE is better at it is because of addons like EVEMON and PYFA. But unlike the PC most DUST users aren't going to download a program on their PC to help them navigate the maze that is the skill tree.
Then they can't cry if they screw up. Read, do research and talk to people who have been playing the game. It is the mercs fault and no one else's. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
242
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 09:40:00 -
[86] - Quote
Laheon wrote:Bassmeant, I swear, a couple months ago you were absolutely hating on CCP. Now, all the posts I've come across of yours seem to be defending them in some way or another. What happened?!
The New Eden trap got him. He's a fanboy now.
CCP's plan worked and we are all under their control! |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
238
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 09:45:00 -
[87] - Quote
"SO when you first started you knew what every skill did and what it unlocked"
of course not.
that's why i hit triangle and read what it did. and did some basic math.
took maybe half a minute?
so what's your point.
oh yeah: the reviewer is supposed to be their go to MMO guy. he claims he plays EvE.
514s skill tree, as it is, is too confusing for him.
again: the guy's a moron.
Peace B |
Rorschach Mustang
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 10:50:00 -
[88] - Quote
BASSMEANT wrote:"SO when you first started you knew what every skill did and what it unlocked"
of course not.
that's why i hit triangle and read what it did. and did some basic math.
took maybe half a minute?
so what's your point.
oh yeah: the reviewer is supposed to be their go to MMO guy. he claims he plays EvE.
514s skill tree, as it is, is too confusing for him.
again: the guy's a moron.
Peace B
And venomous attitudes like this WILL kill this game
Get it through your thick skull.
Dust is NO like EVE
Dust will NEVER by like EVE.
Go ahead and stick your noses in the air and spit on any new person trying to learn this game. Soon you'll only be left with yourselves so you can circle jerk at how awesome this game is with the few who put up with this ****.
Planetside 2 is coming to PS3 soon.
Destiny will be on PS3 next year.
Do you think people who want a persistent FPS are going to stick around to wait until this game becomes decent?
You'd be a moron to think so.
But I know you're answer. You're just going to stick your nose in the air and think you're better than me.
You're pathetic and a blight on games. Your rotten attitude WILL be the downfall of this game.
|
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
515
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:30:00 -
[89] - Quote
Rorschach Mustang wrote: Dust is NO like EVE
Dust will NEVER by like EVE.
In some respects, you're right. In others, you aren't.
In EVE Online, you're not exactly discouraged to lie, cheat and steal your way to the top. Espionage is also a great way to make money, as well as betraying your friends. Politics is rife in New Eden, in most other games it usually comes down to "I hate that guy, he's now my enemy". In New Eden, it's not about personal relationships. In New Eden, you take territory because it's good business. You make people compete because YOU want to make money, and to do so, you undercut your competition's prices.
It will be the same in DUST. You don't go to war with any corporation or alliance because you have a personal grudge; you'll do it because it makes good business sense. You don't launch attacks on the same districts over and over again, because you won't be able to afford to keep up that kind of effort.
Sure, the gameplay isn't exactly the same, but the principle behind both games, the idea which both games are drawn from, is that you, as a player, have the ultimate freedom to decide your OWN fate and to make your own storyline. |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
239
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 11:32:00 -
[90] - Quote
jesus.
vage much?
you got your facts all twisted.
ps4, son. ps4. not ps3. desinty is on ps4. planetside 2? you guys are having trouble with this. how you gonna play a game that is even bigger? unless it's just a big watered down version of cod, which would make sense.
other then that, might i suggest:
decaf
Peace B |
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