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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
266
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 08:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Sigh.
On PS3 last night, there were were over 440k players online.
The two are not comparable. Mmmkay? |
RazielJones
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 08:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
well I think it's a great game and am enjoying it very much, seems I'm wrong though cause it make the op cry.
I think he needs a hug! |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
266
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 08:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
The OP brings up a valid point actually. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:lllIIIlI IIIlIl wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: I showed numbers that are publicly available, and used logic and working that can be seen and demonstrated as logical.
What are your "sources" basing their claims on?
What ARE your "sources"?
Using the numbers that are publicly available, your 20,000 figure doesn't make any rational sense. None at all. So either share a valid source for your information, or stop trying to spread blatant lies.
wat. You take the 5k number, and based on your general idea of how long people play, you get 60,000. Which is quite a bit high in my opinion but it still makes sense. Then from out of nowhere you say all that is wrong and pull 200,000 out of your ass. Great logical claims right there. I'm just doing the exact same thing you are lol. Assuming people are averaging 2 hours of playtime every day is a HUGE overestimation for the average player. Assuming that there are no players who play less often than every day is an even more ridiculous assumption. Getting 60,000 from 5000 simultaneous players is a REALLY low measure. Maybe you need to actually go back and read my initial post. Since you obviously didn't, because I already explained how I got my numbers. You like stats huh ? I give you some ; Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online Don't bee such a troll.... please.
Ohhh, and by the way, the source of this stats is Steam Stats page. Which means that they are PC numbers, that are always higher than consoles, specially this PS3.
|
lowratehitman
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
561
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
RazielJones wrote:well I think it's a great game and am enjoying it very much, seems I'm wrong though cause it make the op cry.
I think he needs a hug!
Newer people should and will enjoy it! and that is a great thing, but having gone through all the motions, seeing and following the fourms, I used to get a sense of excitement before, now it is just disappointment due to the current state of the game. I just feel as if the DEV's and GM'S did not take the time to actually mingle in pub matches or they would easily be able to see the frustration on the battlefield that has been created...... |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2976
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST.
Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to.
And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2976
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:04:00 -
[67] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Ohhh, and by the way, the source of this stats is Steam Stats page. Which means that they are PC numbers, that are always higher than consoles, specially this PS3. Pretty sure player numbers in the PS3 version of DUST are higher than on PC (sorry, had to be said) |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
266
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
No, they aren't you bleating sheep.
The ps3 numbers dwarf any other shooter.
Steam stats are not accurate as steam is not the only way to log on to these games.
Case in point, there are currently 850 players on eve online. Hardly accurate now it's it?
(numbers for black ops) |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
92
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:06:00 -
[69] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion".
Oi, you two in the pissing contest over numbers Its the middle of the frakking night, compare the number during peak hours |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion".
Like i already say... those are Steam Stats of players currently playing that games in PC, stats will be much lower in Consoles. |
|
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:11:00 -
[71] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". Like i already say... those are Steam Stats of players currently playing that games in PC, stats will be much lower in Consoles.
You never compared sales figures huh? First week of release Black Ops 2 sold 4.61 million copies, the PC version sold just shy of 401k |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
515
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:16:00 -
[72] - Quote
I checked the reviews giving a bad score, and most of the complaints were perfectly legitimate. There was one which talked about P2W without really understanding that the gear is also available with ISK.
But this is a very dangerous notion: if the word gets out that Dust is P2W, it will die - whether the P2W accusations are true or not is largely irrelevant. We need to fight such incorrect notions and to ensure the game doesn't even go (further) in that direction. And CCP must do a better job in telling people how Dust is not P2W, since F2P games have a very bad reputation - although some are wildly popular.
The fact that there was no full char reset at end of beta will make this even worse, but hopefully no one notices that, especially reviewers...
Lost83's review said it the best:
Quote:All the people that gave this game a 10 are going off of it's potential. A potential that has yet to be realized.
I'm one of those: I'd give Dust 7/10 if I'm being generous, but 10/10 if I include potential.
The game is not ready for launch, and I sincerely hope the bad press reviews which are certainly coming won't hurt Dust permanently. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:17:00 -
[73] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". Like i already say... those are Steam Stats of players currently playing that games in PC, stats will be much lower in Consoles. You never compared sales figures huh? First week of release Black Ops 2 sold 4.61 million copies, the PC version sold just shy of 401k
And Dust 514 sold.... oh.... hold on... is Free to Play.
|
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
460
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
There is a distinct lack of Bacon in this thread.
The community makes a game. And to you Kittens trolling, HTFU. I troll, i admit it, but not vindictivly, your just going a bit too far and beeing as s hats |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". Like i already say... those are Steam Stats of players currently playing that games in PC, stats will be much lower in Consoles. You never compared sales figures huh? First week of release Black Ops 2 sold 4.61 million copies, the PC version sold just shy of 401k And Dust 514 sold.... oh.... hold on... is Free to Play.
And that has absolutely nothing to do with your argument that PCs have a larger player base than consoles, which is a flawed idea in the first place While tons of people have PCs not everyone uses them for gaming, most people use them to get on facebook and post dumb stuff on twitter |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
226
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:22:00 -
[76] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Ohhh, and by the way, the source of this stats is Steam Stats page. Which means that they are PC numbers, that are always higher than consoles, specially this PS3. Pretty sure player numbers in the PS3 version of DUST are higher than on PC (sorry, had to be said)
Well played. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:25:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Ohhh, and by the way, the source of this stats is Steam Stats page. Which means that they are PC numbers, that are always higher than consoles, specially this PS3. Pretty sure player numbers in the PS3 version of DUST are higher than on PC (sorry, had to be said) Well played.
Well played ? How so ? Dust 514 is a Free to Play, Playstation 3 exclusive.... |
Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
132
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
xprotoman23 wrote:http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/dust-514/user-reviews?dist=neutral
This game has problems... Lots and lots of problems. It's ok to believe in the idea and potential of what something can be. I don't quiet understand how people can be so misguided and just plain blind in their user reviews of DUST. Uprising is a visual improvement but that's all it really is. This game currently is on the boarder between being just a bad game and mediocre.
It is pretty amazing that someone who spends as much time on this forum as you do should at the same time talk about how bad the game is. Is self torture your thing or is it the classic case of being full of s**t?
|
Jaron Pollard
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
All these posts from people that think DUST is in its final iteration. Play EVE. DUST will never be in it's final iteration. There are a stack of features that have been indicated for inclusion that have not yet been included, and I'll put my money on the chances that there are a tonne of features more that haven't even been thought up yet that the game will see in the coming years. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". Oi, you two in the pissing contest over numbers Its the middle of the frakking night, compare the number during peak hours
Is morning where i live... You know, is more places in the world, than just the USA. |
|
Sir Petersen
Valhalla Nord
132
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:35:00 -
[81] - Quote
Jaron Pollard wrote:All these posts from people that think DUST is in its final iteration.
COD players?
But you are right. It seem impossible for many to understand this concept. DUST514 is a long run and will slowly but surely get better as time goes a long. |
Otoky
DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:36:00 -
[82] - Quote
I read the IGN "pre-review" and was not bad. Then I read the comments and ppl deffended Dust because there is a lack of depth FPSs on the market. I think this is a good start. |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:37:00 -
[83] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". Oi, you two in the pissing contest over numbers Its the middle of the frakking night, compare the number during peak hours Is morning where i live... You know, is more places in the world, than just the USA.
Yes but the US also has a massive population with a high concentration of gamers, remember there are US cities with populations greater than entire european countries |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:41:00 -
[84] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:You like stats huh ? I give you some ;
Counter Strike : Global Offensive: 7,172 Currently online
Call of Duty: Black Ops II - Multiplayer: 5,723 Currently online
Don't bee such a troll.... please. So you've provided numbers for two major and well-established game brands that have been around for years, and the numbers on those games don't significantly outstrip the numbers on DUST. Thanks for supporting my argument with hard numbers on some games that should reasonably be expected to have MUCH larger and more acitve playerbases than a game like DUST, and seem not to be as far ahead as I would have expected them to. And this isn't me being a troll. Pointing out that you spelt "be" wrong and a "bee" is a flying insect would be trolling. Arguing in a thread about a videogame's chances of success and using publicly available numbers, logic and basic knowledge of maths is called "discussion". Oi, you two in the pissing contest over numbers Its the middle of the frakking night, compare the number during peak hours Is morning where i live... You know, is more places in the world, than just the USA. Yes but the US also has a massive population with a high concentration of gamers, remember there are US cities with populations greater than entire european countries
I think you just shoot your self in the food.... It is allot more US people playing Dust 514, than any other place. So in PEAK time, the numbers will be higher for Dust. |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:56:00 -
[85] - Quote
Explain how what I said undermined my argument, of course the numbers will be higher for Dust during peak hours but they will also be higher for the other games and from that you can get a better reading of the active player base Do you just not understand how math works or are you just typing whatever to be contrary? |
Kyle Drysden
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:57:00 -
[86] - Quote
I'll never understand this phenomenon. You know, the one where people play a game they despise and make the game's demise their ultimate goal. I've played so many games where a group of people fought so hard to destroy the game and run it to the ground. Face of Mankind comes to mind. A small group of players would murder new players and tell them, "Lawl, FOM's dread, you need to uninstall it. Trust us." Hell, there was even a GM who assisted in this propaganda. If you hate the game that much, why play? It's like some kind of video game terrorism.
You're seriously trying to tell me that people get a kick out of running someone's creation to the ground? In Face of Mankind's case, it actually worked. TWICE! It has recently been taken over by another company and a Kickstarter has been made to "Re-release" the game for a third time!
You have problems and gripes with the game. Great! You're entitled to that. Just like people are entitled to enjoy the game. Maybe instead of calling them blind sheep and fanboys, you can say, "Well, I for one certainly don't see how they can rate it a 10, but whatever..." But no, it's always a debate as to why the game sucks and why people should also agree that it sucks. Though I would imagine that going with the former would put a damper on your internet egos.
It's simple. CCP is not forcing you to play. They aren't even forcing you to pay! If you hate the game so much, then quit. You lose absolutely nothing! And if you did put money down on AUR and still hate the game but are bitter about it, then that's your doing. CCP did not force you to buy that AUR. Hell, the game just officially got released yesterday, and to be quite honest, rather you love it or hate it, spending money on AUR while the game was in BETA was a gamble.
Does the game need work? Yes, it needs work like Lady Gaga needs a nose job. Does the game have potential? Yes, it indeed does. Will it meet said potential? Well, that's yet to be seen.
The truth of the matter is, not a single one of us know where Dust 514 is going to go. I will critique the game when and where critiquing is due, but I will stick with it and see where this thing goes. There may come a point when I feel the game is not what I anticipated it to be. If that day comes, I will walk away. It will be removed from my PS3. I don't understand why this is so hard for you guys to comprehend. |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:59:00 -
[87] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Explain how what I said undermined my argument, of course the numbers will be higher for Dust during peak hours but they will also be higher for the other games and from that you can get a better reading of the active player base Do you just not understand how math works or are you just typing whatever to be contrary?
I just saying, that the numbers will be very similar to what they are right now ( Just Higher ). In fact i'm pretty sure, that more EU people plays CoD or CS, than they do Dust 514 right now. |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:04:00 -
[88] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Explain how what I said undermined my argument, of course the numbers will be higher for Dust during peak hours but they will also be higher for the other games and from that you can get a better reading of the active player base Do you just not understand how math works or are you just typing whatever to be contrary? I just saying, that the numbers will be very similar to what they are right now ( Just Higher ). In fact i'm pretty sure, that more EU people plays CoD or CS, than they do Dust 514 right now.
Now you shot yourself in the foot, first you site numbers of other games current active players and use those to say that Dust is keeping even but only lagging behind a bit, now you say that you know many more people play these others series Never mind that you used the PC figures when this is a console game, actually yes I do since when I cited actual console sales numbers you went to go insulting me just for the country I happen to live in
I would say dont quit your dayjob but I wonder if anyone would employ a nearly brain dead liability such as yourself |
Panther Alpha
WarRavens
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:09:00 -
[89] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Explain how what I said undermined my argument, of course the numbers will be higher for Dust during peak hours but they will also be higher for the other games and from that you can get a better reading of the active player base Do you just not understand how math works or are you just typing whatever to be contrary? I just saying, that the numbers will be very similar to what they are right now ( Just Higher ). In fact i'm pretty sure, that more EU people plays CoD or CS, than they do Dust 514 right now. Now you shot yourself in the foot, first you site numbers of other games current active players and use those to say that Dust is keeping even but only lagging behind a bit, now you say that you know many more people play these others series Never mind that you used the PC figures when this is a console game, actually yes I do since when I cited actual console sales numbers you went to go insulting me just for the country I happen to live in I would say dont quit your dayjob but I wonder if anyone would employ a nearly brain dead liability such as yourself
Insult you ? how ?
Just saying.... again... That the current Dust 514 player count, is NOT as bad, as you HARDCORE HATERS are trying to make it sound. |
Otoky
DIOS EX. Gentlemen's Agreement
76
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:11:00 -
[90] - Quote
Kyle Drysden wrote:I'll never understand this phenomenon. You know, the one where people play a game they despise and make the game's demise their ultimate goal. I've played so many games where a group of people fought so hard to destroy the game and run it to the ground. Face of Mankind comes to mind. A small group of players would murder new players and tell them, "Lawl, FOM's dread, you need to uninstall it. Trust us." Hell, there was even a GM who assisted in this propaganda. If you hate the game that much, why play? It's like some kind of video game terrorism.
You're seriously trying to tell me that people get a kick out of running someone's creation to the ground? In Face of Mankind's case, it actually worked. TWICE! It has recently been taken over by another company and a Kickstarter has been made to "Re-release" the game for a third time!
You have problems and gripes with the game. Great! You're entitled to that. Just like people are entitled to enjoy the game. Maybe instead of calling them blind sheep and fanboys, you can say, "Well, I for one certainly don't see how they can rate it a 10, but whatever..." But no, it's always a debate as to why the game sucks and why people should also agree that it sucks. Though I would imagine that going with the former would put a damper on your internet egos.
It's simple. CCP is not forcing you to play. They aren't even forcing you to pay! If you hate the game so much, then quit. You lose absolutely nothing! And if you did put money down on AUR and still hate the game but are bitter about it, then that's your doing. CCP did not force you to buy that AUR. Hell, the game just officially got released yesterday, and to be quite honest, rather you love it or hate it, spending money on AUR while the game was in BETA was a gamble.
Does the game need work? Yes, it needs work like Lady Gaga needs a nose job. Does the game have potential? Yes, it indeed does. Will it meet said potential? Well, that's yet to be seen.
The truth of the matter is, not a single one of us know where Dust 514 is going to go. I will critique the game when and where critiquing is due, but I will stick with it and see where this thing goes. There may come a point when I feel the game is not what I anticipated it to be. If that day comes, I will walk away. It will be removed from my PS3. I don't understand why this is so hard for you guys to comprehend. Nothing more to say. +1 |
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