I can bet this goes way beyond CCP and Sony. Each country will apply taxes to get some money out of each transaction.

Llan Heindell.

Also any eve players here know if Australia pays more then 15AUD a month for eve? I would be interested to know.

Why can't I just pay ccp and get it direct from them. I bet it has something to do with the exclusive ps3 arrangement that dust has. There is probably a clause that sony has that says 'we can charge each country what ever we want for extras and you can't do **** about it'

Is that why EVE Online, Valve games, and many other digital products and services cost me (as an Australian) exactly the same amount as US customers?

I don't really want this thread to get muddied with vague guesses at "reasons", unless these are well thought through. Do you know specifically why Sony needs to overcharge on digital scout suits and boosters, while Valve does not need to on digital games?

Why can't I just pay ccp and get it direct from them. I bet it has something to do with the exclusive ps3 arrangement that dust has. There is probably a clause that sony has that says 'we can charge each country what ever we want for extras and you can't do **** about it'

Why put up with being ripped off 'because that's how it works'

I thought two of my mate's were the only Aussies that actually use the AU PS Store.
Create a US user on your PS3 and buy US PSN codes through bestbuy or play-Asia.

its true probably another reason that PT has been pushed back. I thought is was weird and I thought it might be sony not wanting to "lose" money(oh sony why are you so stupid), but now that you mention it it could be they want to prevent losing the markets that have really high prices to trading.

oh BTW from the other thread on this, a way to bypass the aussie prices, although not really practical for long time beta players.

If you are in Australia or New Zealand please report them to the commission. I have filled out one report today in NZ

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/

http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumerprotection/

there is little sony can do. this is a problem caused by your own goverment intended to keep aus games companyies competeative.

go see your local mp.

ill say this again IT IS NOT SONY OR CCP IT IS YOUR GOVERMENT. ALL GAMES IN AUS ARE UNFAIRLY PRICED.

If you are in Australia or New Zealand please report them to the commission. I have filled out one report today in NZ

http://www.comcom.govt.nz/

http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumerprotection/

there is little sony can do. this is a problem caused by your own goverment intended to keep aus games companyies competeative.

go see your local mp.

ill say this again IT IS NOT SONY OR CCP IT IS YOUR GOVERMENT. ALL GAMES IN AUS ARE UNFAIRLY PRICED.

Explain why games AREN'T unfairly priced on Steam and many other digital distribution platforms any more then?

Because they aren't. Sony's one of the last major brands to still be shafting us like this.

Also, explain New Zealand, where the problem is even worse, and we DON'T have laws protecting our local game developers?

if you are correct i hope you guys get it sorted. i dont belive its fair at all.

as for steam sorry to say but you are still paying more. i hear a lot of people upset over it and with good reason.

as for steam sorry to say but you are still paying more. i hear a lot of people upset over it and with good reason.

Only for some steam games, and that is (so far as I can tell) a decision made by the publisher and not valve. Valve's own games are the same price.

As an Australian, I always check the US price before I buy. If they're overcharging us, I simply won't buy the game, or will get someone from Canada to purchase and gift it to me, and I pay them back.

I either pay the proper price, or they don't get my money at all. If they want to try and screw me, then **** them.

Edit: And I don't touch EA games. Not a chance.

glad to hear that. and i wont touch ea games either.

as for the dude complaing about my misinformed post. sorry i got it wrong but if i hadnt posted i would continue to be misinformed.

It is a digital unlock code, and our exchange rate is stronger than theirs. How can they justify an extra 50% mark up?

as for the dude complaing about my misinformed post. sorry i got it wrong but if i hadnt posted i would continue to be misinformed.

I don't think its up to Sony, its up to CCP to use more realistic exchange rates in all regions.

While regional prices may vary, in many cases regional sales taxes and legal requirements are reflected in the user price.

For example if you compare the pricing for EVE you will see that based on exchange rates alone the pricing can vary: http://www.eveonline.com/faq/paying-for-eve

However we do work closely with all 4 SONY regions in order to try prevent price increases where possible, and ultimately SONY determine the prices for their stores.

Bottom line, it's not fair.

Solidarity for our upside-down brothers!

This is annoying id love to get the $100 pack but im not paying 50% more for it.

That was me :) Sorry for my tone. It was just irritating me that some people were distracting from the real issue by claiming that it was due to something that it is not.

Just to point this out

Australia is the no 1 country for pirating games and other digital downloads

Australia has to pay 50% more for most digital downloads

... I see a pattern here

Just to point this out

Australia is the no 1 country for pirating games and other digital downloads

Australia has to pay 50% more for most digital downloads

... I see a pattern here

Just to point this out

Australia is the no 1 country for pirating games and other digital downloads

Australia has to pay 50% more for most digital downloads

... I see a pattern here

Irrelevant, how does charging someone more for a product stop piracy? If anything it will rapidly increase it.

While regional prices may vary, in many cases regional sales taxes and legal requirements are reflected in the user price.

For example if you compare the pricing for EVE you will see that based on exchange rates alone the pricing can vary: http://www.eveonline.com/faq/paying-for-eve

However we do work closely with all 4 SONY regions in order to try prevent price increases where possible, and ultimately SONY determine the prices for their stores.

Why do Customer support/GM's always hid behind this regional difference and tax fud?

They should man up and admit that they are ripping AUS and NZ customers off.

Poor show CCP you have lost my respect and a lot of others too.

Even the sock puppet CPM and CSM don't have the balls to speak out.

Thanks for you reply Grave, but the markup vastly exceeds tax (15% in NZ I believe) and it does not apply for online sales. Even if it did, after GST there's still a 35% markup - you guys are having your game abused for a quick buck. CCP has the right to issue on official complaint to Sony, and without that it will not be fixed.

Why do Customer support/GM's always hid behind this regional difference and tax fud?

They should man up and admit that they are ripping AUS and NZ customers off.

Poor show CCP you have lost my respect and a lot of others too.

Even the sock puppet CPM and CSM don't have the balls to speak out.

This was the ccp response to my petition asking about the price differences

2013.05.15 10:26:00 GM Avantgarde

---

Hello,

We can understand why you would like a clarification over the price of Merc Pack in different countries.
Once we set the price on a game, SONY then would localise the price for each country based on local currency and taxes.

Please accept our sincere apologies and we thank you for the understanding.

If we could be your assistance on any DUST 514 issue in the future, please contact us again.

Best Regards,
GM Avantgarde
CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514

Its a total load of bullshit from CCP. I am no longer just someone playing a free game. I have bought over 30,000 aurum so far and am now what I consider a CCP customer. My money has gone to them, maybe not all of it because of Sony but they still get their share. They know they have it with in there power to fix this but clearly don't care!!!!

I'm not sure if the DUST EULA mirrors the EVE one, but if it does, you're not allowed to post this. However, as much as you want to scream and shout and rage at CCP, if you stopped to listen for a moment, they provided you a legitimate explanation. If you feel otherwise, then clarify, no, verify with some evidence that "they know they have it within their power to fix this" because the last I checked, they're doing exactly what their dev agreement with Sony, who publishes for them at cost, allows them to do.

How do you think trading goods and services takes place? Do you think that computer you're using to type all this on actually started out being worth what you bought it for? You are still just someone playing a free game, because payment for goods in it is entirely optional, a fact you knew when you bought them. It wasn't an investment of some kind, it was a purchase of an element of a game. The game itself is free to play, and can be played entirely for free.

9. Posting of private CCP communication is prohibited.
The posting of private communication between the Game Masters, DUST Team members, Moderators, Administrators of the forums and forum users is prohibited. CCP respect the right of our players to privacy and as such you are not permitted to publicize private correspondence (including petition responses and emails) received from any of the aforementioned parties.

There was no privacy statement within the email so as far as I am concerned they can take it off the forum if they want. I just wanted to show people what CCPs official response is to all of the questions as to why and how they justify the cost differences. And the reason behind the '"they know they have it within their power to fix this" statement is because its their ******* game. Sony didn't make the **** but yet they are the ones deciding on the charges. CCP can have their own servers or system designed to handle the transactions and distributions themselves. Clearly you do not get how important and valuable to a new player a booster is, it may not be considered an investment but over time the extra skill points allow faster progression and a better loadout for players.

From the forum rules:

You guys don't read anything, do you? I posted the reason why earlier. Everyone here that's so quick to jump on CCP's case about it obviously hasn't spent a minute subbed on EVE or you'd know we pay the same price in Aus as the US do. The problem is with Sony, CCP are not 'complicit' regardless of how desperately you want to have a problem with them.

I think that was his point

Didn't ccp screw over people who purchased closed beta merc packs? Yet yall think they give a **** about this? lol

While regional prices may vary, in many cases regional sales taxes and legal requirements are reflected in the user price.

For example if you compare the pricing for EVE you will see that based on exchange rates alone the pricing can vary: http://www.eveonline.com/faq/paying-for-eve

However we do work closely with all 4 SONY regions in order to try prevent price increases where possible, and ultimately SONY determine the prices for their stores.

This is either complete ignorance or a blatant misrepresentation and spin.

Australia for the last few years has enjoyed above parity or record favorable exchange rates with most currencies.

Australia has a uniform 10% GST but that is irrelevant here as there is no tax for online purchases under AU$1,000.

CCP you are ripping off Australian customers, you are lying that your hands are completely tied and you will never see a cent from me.

There are two kinds of people in the world: those who think in false dichotomies, and penguins.

It has been explained in the thread why CCP is not to blame. Yet there are still players who would prefer to ignore rational discourse and just adopt the native "I'm going to be mad and rage at everyone, even if it's not their fault" attitude of the regular dime-a-dozen COD kiddie.

You're assuming that CCP had no input into pricing plans for their product globally, which is of course absurd. Noone put a gun to CCP's head when it came time to agreeing pricing for Dust514 related products and services.

This is rational discourse.

While regional prices may vary, in many cases regional sales taxes and legal requirements are reflected in the user price.

For example if you compare the pricing for EVE you will see that based on exchange rates alone the pricing can vary: http://www.eveonline.com/faq/paying-for-eve

However we do work closely with all 4 SONY regions in order to try prevent price increases where possible, and ultimately SONY determine the prices for their stores.

Are you for reall or are you trolling?

I have been playing EVE since 2003 and yes we do get prices based on US dollars but the freaking exchange rate do not increase the price by 50% there !!! Do you have "special" exchange rate for DUST?!

Man,increase from $100 to $149 and you blame the exchange rate... Pull yourself together Mr GM.

Good. Then where's the part where you recognise the fact that CCP give Sony the same price for everything, and Sony ups it for their take, as a middle-man, depending on the region? Let me put it this way. CCP do set all their prices the same, and you'd know this if you play EVE, because everyone around the world pays the same price, based only on their currency exchange rate. This is like buying wholesale, straight from the manufacturer, because EVE is both developed and published entirely by CCP. DUST, however, while developed by CCP, is on Sony proprietary hardware, and is published by Sony, and distributed by Sony. That then is like buying retail, where you go to the store (Sony) to purchase the goods produced by the manufacturer (CCP). I'm assuming nothing. I know CCP have a price to set for stuff you choose to (but don't have to) buy, but it's standardised based on what the item is worth in-game in general isk/plex/aurum conversion rates, which is how they maintain consistency on the EVE/DUST economies, so that they only have one major input to consider instead of hundreds of different ones because they charge different regions different prices.

The problem is with Sony. In fact, it's with the entire IT industry as a whole when buying hardware or software in Australia at all. That's why there's a parliamentary inquest into it involving Microsoft, Apple, Sony, IBM, and others, who have been called to answer as to why they charge more in Australia. This is not an unknown problem, and not something exclusive to DUST. But it exists in DUST because of Sony, not CCP.

No. Once again you're jumping to illogical conclusions. Given that PSN is the sole distribution platform, and that Dust514 represents a significant financial and brand investment on the part of CCP you are assuming that their channel-partner agreement with SOE is as follows:

"We CCP, recommend you the publisher (SOE) retail our product at a certain price, but you can really sell if for whatever price you feel like".

Does that really sound like a realistic scenario? CCP putting the survival of Dust514 at the hands of SOE arbitrary pricing? It takes two to tango, whatever price SOE is selling for is at the permission of CCP. It may very well be too late for CCP to affect this issue given that agreements have already been made, but that doesn't let them off the hook or remove their responsibility to their fans in ALL regions.

You're assuming that CCP had no input into pricing plans for their product globally, which is of course absurd. Noone put a gun to CCP's head when it came time to agreeing pricing for Dust514 related products and services.

This is rational discourse.

Maybe you should be like the Gallente and overthrow your government?

Then you wouldn't have this problem?

Just asking?

It's more like, "We, CCP, have developed a game exclusively for your platform, and you've gone out of your way to provide us with the tools necessary for us to succeed on this platform. We thank you for this. Also, thank you for using your servers to distribute our game. In return, we'll allow you to raise the prices in accordance with other prices in that region for your own take."

All games in the Oceania region are overpriced on PSN. Not just CCP's. Go ahead, compare it. Most NZ and Aussie gamers complain that they have to pay 50% more than everyone else across all games, all platforms, not just DUST.

Again, don't try to pin the blame on CCP when CCP has fair pricing for everywhere for EVE Online, and the only difference here is that the package is distributed through Sony.

No. Once again you're jumping to illogical conclusions. Given that PSN is the sole distribution platform, and that Dust514 represents a significant financial and brand investment on the part of CCP you are assuming that their channel-partner agreement with SOE is as follows:

"We CCP, recommend you the publisher (SOE) retail our product at a certain price, but you can really sell if for whatever price you feel like".

Does that really sound like a realistic scenario? CCP putting the survival of Dust514 at the hands of SOE arbitrary pricing? It takes two to tango, whatever price SOE is selling for is at the permission of CCP. It may very well be too late for CCP to affect this issue given that agreements have already been made, but that doesn't let them off the hook or remove their responsibility to their fans in ALL regions.

It's more like, "We, CCP, have developed a game exclusively for your platform, and you've gone out of your way to provide us with the tools necessary for us to succeed on this platform. We thank you for this. Also, thank you for using your servers to distribute our game. In return, we'll allow you to raise the prices in accordance with other prices in that region for your own take."

All games in the Oceania region are overpriced on PSN. Not just CCP's. Go ahead, compare it. Most NZ and Aussie gamers complain that they have to pay 50% more than everyone else across all games, all platforms, not just DUST.

Again, don't try to pin the blame on CCP when CCP has fair pricing for everywhere for EVE Online, and the only difference here is that the package is distributed through Sony.

Seems SOE just need to sort themselves out.

Protip: Move away from a socialist country. Less taxes and more fun!

To rebut your points in no particular order:

1. I know CCP don't gouge on EVE Online. I applaud them for that. However, a history of good behaviour does not preclude a company from conducting bad behaviour. Precedence makes no difference to the discussion, it's like a character witness at a trial, incidental but doesn't make or break the case. Anyway, I'm not saying they're gouging, I'm saying they're allowing gouging to take place in this instance.

2. "Do you even understand how content trading works?" It works whatever way the two parties engaging in production and distribution of that content trading agree on. Do you KNOW for a fact that CCP sell for X and Sony sell for X+Y? I mean do you know for certain. You don't I'd wager, nor do I. I'm just stating the obvious in voicing a doubt that CCP do not have any contractual built-in price floors or ceilings for content.

3. "CCP sell the content to Sony, Sony sells it to the player. It's just like electricity. The company that produces the electricity at a plant sells it to a retailer, the retailer then sends you the bill" I think that's an inaccurate depiction of the scenario in this case. The electricity generation companies produce a set supply of capacity which the retailers purchase in bulk to resell. CCP don't sell to Sony, and Sony don't buy anything from CCP. It's a distribution channel. Sony sell a virtual product with infinite supply. Sony don't say to CCP "We need 15,000 merc packs, here's $30,000". They sell the merc packs and give CCP whatever is due to them. Whether SOE derive their profits from selling above a margin dictated by CCP or whether they simply recoup a % of transactions is another unknown that we can make unfounded assumptions on if we want.

My bottom line: You're forgetting it takes two to tango once again. Yes SOE own the PS Store. But the partnership between CCP and SOE is far from the norm. Whatever agreements are in place are likely not to be the standard cookie cutter agreements that every other Tom, **** or Harry sign going into PSN. That much is clear based on the unprecedented steps SOE have made to accomodate Dust514 on PSN. We don't know the details of the agreements made so most of what I'm guessing (and you flat out claiming to be the case) is just conjecture.

Another curve ball: Imagine in a years time Dust514 becomes the #1 console FPS. BF and COD are languishing in the gutter and things look great. Imagine SOE decide they want to double all transaction costs and make a quick buck (an EA-esque move). Given that CCP are relying on the income of microtransactions to pay for this game and make it profitable do you think it likely that CCP would allow SOE sole decision making power like that? You do I think, I don't think CCP would put themselves in such a vulnerable position without certain contractual guarantees.

Lastly, I can't find any reference to Sony spending $20,000,000 on the development of Dust514. If they have spent that much I'm surprised they're not in the forums flaming with the rest of us about why there are still so many bugs to iron out.

• CCP did not tell Sony to charge us extortionate markups - True
• AUS/NZ gamers are a minority on CCP's servers - True
• AUS/NZ pay more for all Sony digital product - True
• There is no digital sales tax in Aus or NZ for purchases under $1000 - True
• DUST prices exceed currency conversion & tax prices by ~35% minimum , ~50% maximum - True

All of the above facts point to it being Sony's greed at fault. However, the second bullet point is EXACTLY why CCP should care; Sony is going to ignore all our petitions and complaints BECAUSE we are a minority and it will take the legal action of the two countries governments to make headway without CCP (which, because of our current government, means NZ is buggered twice over).

CCP are entitled to lodge a formal complaint with Sony over the blatant abuse of their product. The fact that other publishers do not bother has no effect on the moral obligations of this situation.

People in this thread need to stop blaming CCP, and focus on demanding the same consumer equality CCP shows to it's EVE customers.