DUST Search - What can CCP do to protect AU and NZ customers?

Jaron Pollard wrote:

RedRebelCork wrote:

You're assuming that CCP had no input into pricing plans for their product globally, which is of course absurd. Noone put a gun to CCP's head when it came time to agreeing pricing for Dust514 related products and services.

This is rational discourse.

Good. Then where's the part where you recognise the fact that CCP give Sony the same price for everything, and Sony ups it for their take, as a middle-man, depending on the region? Let me put it this way. CCP do set all their prices the same, and you'd know this if you play EVE, because everyone around the world pays the same price, based only on their currency exchange rate. This is like buying wholesale, straight from the manufacturer, because EVE is both developed and published entirely by CCP. DUST, however, while developed by CCP, is on Sony proprietary hardware, and is published by Sony, and distributed by Sony. That then is like buying retail, where you go to the store (Sony) to purchase the goods produced by the manufacturer (CCP). I'm assuming nothing. I know CCP have a price to set for stuff you choose to (but don't have to) buy, but it's standardised based on what the item is worth in-game in general isk/plex/aurum conversion rates, which is how they maintain consistency on the EVE/DUST economies, so that they only have one major input to consider instead of hundreds of different ones because they charge different regions different prices.

The problem is with Sony. In fact, it's with the entire IT industry as a whole when buying hardware or software in Australia at all. That's why there's a parliamentary inquest into it involving Microsoft, Apple, Sony, IBM, and others, who have been called to answer as to why they charge more in Australia. This is not an unknown problem, and not something exclusive to DUST. But it exists in DUST because of Sony, not CCP.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 55	Posted - 2013.05.15 13:18:00 - [1] - Quote Bottom line, it's not fair. Solidarity for our upside-down brothers!
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 55	Posted - 2013.05.15 15:22:00 - [2] - Quote Misses Trickster wrote: Just to point this out Australia is the no 1 country for pirating games and other digital downloads Australia has to pay 50% more for most digital downloads ... I see a pattern here It's the pirates fault isn't it?
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 61	Posted - 2013.05.16 09:13:00 - [3] - Quote Jaron Pollard wrote: Allah's Snackbar wrote: GM Grave wrote: While regional prices may vary, in many cases regional sales taxes and legal requirements are reflected in the user price. For example if you compare the pricing for EVE you will see that based on exchange rates alone the pricing can vary: http://www.eveonline.com/faq/paying-for-eve However we do work closely with all 4 SONY regions in order to try prevent price increases where possible, and ultimately SONY determine the prices for their stores. [ Lead GM Grave \| Project Lead \| CCP Customer Relations \| EVE Online \| DUST 514 ] This is either complete ignorance or a blatant misrepresentation and spin. Australia for the last few years has enjoyed above parity or record favorable exchange rates with most currencies. Australia has a uniform 10% GST but that is irrelevant here as there is no tax for online purchases under AU$1,000. CCP you are ripping off Australian customers, you are lying that your hands are completely tied and you will never see a cent from me. There are two kinds of people in the world: those who think in false dichotomies, and penguins. It has been explained in the thread why CCP is not to blame. Yet there are still players who would prefer to ignore rational discourse and just adopt the native "I'm going to be mad and rage at everyone, even if it's not their fault" attitude of the regular dime-a-dozen COD kiddie. You're assuming that CCP had no input into pricing plans for their product globally, which is of course absurd. Noone put a gun to CCP's head when it came time to agreeing pricing for Dust514 related products and services. This is rational discourse.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 62	Posted - 2013.05.16 11:47:00 - [4] - Quote Jaron Pollard wrote: RedRebelCork wrote: You're assuming that CCP had no input into pricing plans for their product globally, which is of course absurd. Noone put a gun to CCP's head when it came time to agreeing pricing for Dust514 related products and services. This is rational discourse. Good. Then where's the part where you recognise the fact that CCP give Sony the same price for everything, and Sony ups it for their take, as a middle-man, depending on the region? Let me put it this way. CCP do set all their prices the same, and you'd know this if you play EVE, because everyone around the world pays the same price, based only on their currency exchange rate. This is like buying wholesale, straight from the manufacturer, because EVE is both developed and published entirely by CCP. DUST, however, while developed by CCP, is on Sony proprietary hardware, and is published by Sony, and distributed by Sony. That then is like buying retail, where you go to the store (Sony) to purchase the goods produced by the manufacturer (CCP). I'm assuming nothing. I know CCP have a price to set for stuff you choose to (but don't have to) buy, but it's standardised based on what the item is worth in-game in general isk/plex/aurum conversion rates, which is how they maintain consistency on the EVE/DUST economies, so that they only have one major input to consider instead of hundreds of different ones because they charge different regions different prices. The problem is with Sony. In fact, it's with the entire IT industry as a whole when buying hardware or software in Australia at all. That's why there's a parliamentary inquest into it involving Microsoft, Apple, Sony, IBM, and others, who have been called to answer as to why they charge more in Australia. This is not an unknown problem, and not something exclusive to DUST. But it exists in DUST because of Sony, not CCP. No. Once again you're jumping to illogical conclusions. Given that PSN is the sole distribution platform, and that Dust514 represents a significant financial and brand investment on the part of CCP you are assuming that their channel-partner agreement with SOE is as follows: "We CCP, recommend you the publisher (SOE) retail our product at a certain price, but you can really sell if for whatever price you feel like". Does that really sound like a realistic scenario? CCP putting the survival of Dust514 at the hands of SOE arbitrary pricing?
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 63	Posted - 2013.05.16 13:21:00 - [5] - Quote Laheon wrote: It's more like, "We, CCP, have developed a game exclusively for your platform, and you've gone out of your way to provide us with the tools necessary for us to succeed on this platform. We thank you for this. Also, thank you for using your servers to distribute our game. In return, we'll allow you to raise the prices in accordance with other prices in that region for your own take." All games in the Oceania region are overpriced on PSN. Not just CCP's. Go ahead, compare it. Most NZ and Aussie gamers complain that they have to pay 50% more than everyone else across all games, all platforms, not just DUST. Again, don't try to pin the blame on CCP when CCP has fair pricing for everywhere for EVE Online, and the only difference here is that the package is distributed through Sony. I wouldn't say I'm pinning the blame on CCP, not all of it anyway. I'm just calling a spade a spade. People that think CCP have/had no pricing input into how their product is sold are not using their heads. For example, let's imagine if SOE decided to release Planetside 2 (in many ways similar to Dust514) for PS4 later this year. They might think to themselves they'd make more money selling microtransactions in Planetside where they get 100% of the sales price than they would conducting microtranscation in Dust514, where they only make a % commission. Imagine then that they decided they steal Dust514 market share by jacking the prices on all Dust514 transaction. Do you really think there'd be no mechanism in place for CCP to veto those price distortions? You don't think the legal team that CCP employ don't make sure these contracts are ironclad before signing commitments for millions of dollars of dev work (that goes into making and marketing Dust over the last few years)? Maybe I'm giving CCP too much credit here, but I doubt it. People rag on CCP all the time for various reasons. There's one thing I'm sure of though and that's that CCP taken as a whole are far from stupid.
RedRebelCork Ahrendee Mercenaries 63	Posted - 2013.05.16 14:26:00 - [6] - Quote To rebut your points in no particular order: 1. I know CCP don't gouge on EVE Online. I applaud them for that. However, a history of good behaviour does not preclude a company from conducting bad behaviour. Precedence makes no difference to the discussion, it's like a character witness at a trial, incidental but doesn't make or break the case. Anyway, I'm not saying they're gouging, I'm saying they're allowing gouging to take place in this instance. 2. "Do you even understand how content trading works?" It works whatever way the two parties engaging in production and distribution of that content trading agree on. Do you KNOW for a fact that CCP sell for X and Sony sell for X+Y? I mean do you know for certain. You don't I'd wager, nor do I. I'm just stating the obvious in voicing a doubt that CCP do not have any contractual built-in price floors or ceilings for content. 3. "CCP sell the content to Sony, Sony sells it to the player. It's just like electricity. The company that produces the electricity at a plant sells it to a retailer, the retailer then sends you the bill" I think that's an inaccurate depiction of the scenario in this case. The electricity generation companies produce a set supply of capacity which the retailers purchase in bulk to resell. CCP don't sell to Sony, and Sony don't buy anything from CCP. It's a distribution channel. Sony sell a virtual product with infinite supply. Sony don't say to CCP "We need 15,000 merc packs, here's $30,000". They sell the merc packs and give CCP whatever is due to them. Whether SOE derive their profits from selling above a margin dictated by CCP or whether they simply recoup a % of transactions is another unknown that we can make unfounded assumptions on if we want. My bottom line: You're forgetting it takes two to tango once again. Yes SOE own the PS Store. But the partnership between CCP and SOE is far from the norm. Whatever agreements are in place are likely not to be the standard cookie cutter agreements that every other Tom, **** or Harry sign going into PSN. That much is clear based on the unprecedented steps SOE have made to accomodate Dust514 on PSN. We don't know the details of the agreements made so most of what I'm guessing (and you flat out claiming to be the case) is just conjecture. Another curve ball: Imagine in a years time Dust514 becomes the #1 console FPS. BF and COD are languishing in the gutter and things look great. Imagine SOE decide they want to double all transaction costs and make a quick buck (an EA-esque move). Given that CCP are relying on the income of microtransactions to pay for this game and make it profitable do you think it likely that CCP would allow SOE sole decision making power like that? You do I think, I don't think CCP would put themselves in such a vulnerable position without certain contractual guarantees. Lastly, I can't find any reference to Sony spending $20,000,000 on the development of Dust514. If they have spent that much I'm surprised they're not in the forums flaming with the rest of us about why there are still so many bugs to iron out.