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Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1292
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Projectile that is slower than a mass driver round
Takes multiple shots to take out an LAV - less damage than a Swarm Launcher.
One round per 'magazine'
Nine rounds total
A -stupid- charge up time considering all of this.
Just saying, as excited as I was for this to be implemented, you kinda ruined any potential it ever had when you increased the EHP on -every vehicle in the game- without checking your newest AV tool.
Nice.
Edit: Also, it costs about 3x the CPU of the Swarm Launcher.
Additional Edit: Also, a 3.5 second reload time on a single shot weapon? Who's bright idea was this? |
Billi Gene
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
what meta level cannon are you using?
|
XXfootnoteXX
DUST University Ivy League
267
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Projectile that is slower than a mass driver round
Takes multiple shots to take out an LAV - less damage than a Swarm Launcher.
One round per 'magazine'
Nine rounds total
A -stupid- charge up time considering all of this.
Just saying, as excited as I was for this to be implemented, you kinda ruined any potential it ever had when you increased the EHP on -every vehicle in the game- without checking your newest AV tool.
Nice.
Edit: Also, it costs about 3x the CPU of the Swarm Launcher.
I am still at work. I actually accidently leveled this up to L4 so I am stuck with it. Honestly in my head this would be (read: Should be) a great anti-tank weapon. I know its too slow for LAV's and does not have the range for Dropships but I was hoping for a high DPS anti tank weapon. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1292
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:what meta level cannon are you using?
Standard, but it doesn't matter if it's practical to use against even an LAV. Why put a bunch of SP into something for minor boosts (+2 rounds with Ammo Capacity 5) that isn't effective against even the most rudimentary of vehicles? |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
XXfootnoteXX wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Projectile that is slower than a mass driver round
Takes multiple shots to take out an LAV - less damage than a Swarm Launcher.
One round per 'magazine'
Nine rounds total
A -stupid- charge up time considering all of this.
Just saying, as excited as I was for this to be implemented, you kinda ruined any potential it ever had when you increased the EHP on -every vehicle in the game- without checking your newest AV tool.
Nice.
Edit: Also, it costs about 3x the CPU of the Swarm Launcher. I am still at work. I actually accidently leveled this up to L4 so I am stuck with it. Honestly in my head this would be (read: Should be) a great anti-tank weapon. I know its too slow for LAV's and does not have the range for Dropships but I was hoping for a high DPS anti tank weapon.
High DPS anti tank weapon? We cant have that now can we or did you forget all the complaining about AV nades that gave us this increase in vehicle health |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
263
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
XXfootnoteXX wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Projectile that is slower than a mass driver round
Takes multiple shots to take out an LAV - less damage than a Swarm Launcher.
One round per 'magazine'
Nine rounds total
A -stupid- charge up time considering all of this.
Just saying, as excited as I was for this to be implemented, you kinda ruined any potential it ever had when you increased the EHP on -every vehicle in the game- without checking your newest AV tool.
Nice.
Edit: Also, it costs about 3x the CPU of the Swarm Launcher. I am still at work. I actually accidently leveled this up to L4 so I am stuck with it. Honestly in my head this would be (read: Should be) a great anti-tank weapon. I know its too slow for LAV's and does not have the range for Dropships but I was hoping for a high DPS anti tank weapon.
Yeah, well tough ****, the standard variant only does 1050 damage where as the Swarm Launcher - with it's lock on capabilities and larger magazine storage - does 1,200.
Toss that into the fact that this weapon has RIDICULOUS CPU costs and you can't even apply damage mods to offset the balance into the favorable zone.
Further more, with the massive HP buffs to -all- vehicles, even the standard LAV can survive a direct hit from the Standard Plasma Cannon. So don't expect it to work very well against HAVs/Dropships. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube.
Than they need to -drastically- increase it's projectile speed and splash radius.
3.5 meters is just slightly higher than a Forge Gun and even then you're going to be waiting for the round to actually land. |
XXfootnoteXX
DUST University Ivy League
267
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:XXfootnoteXX wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Projectile that is slower than a mass driver round
Takes multiple shots to take out an LAV - less damage than a Swarm Launcher.
One round per 'magazine'
Nine rounds total
A -stupid- charge up time considering all of this.
Just saying, as excited as I was for this to be implemented, you kinda ruined any potential it ever had when you increased the EHP on -every vehicle in the game- without checking your newest AV tool.
Nice.
Edit: Also, it costs about 3x the CPU of the Swarm Launcher. I am still at work. I actually accidently leveled this up to L4 so I am stuck with it. Honestly in my head this would be (read: Should be) a great anti-tank weapon. I know its too slow for LAV's and does not have the range for Dropships but I was hoping for a high DPS anti tank weapon. High DPS anti tank weapon? We cant have that now can we or did you forget all the complaining about AV nades that gave us this increase in vehicle health
There has to be an off set to the slow firing and low range. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube.
But Noobtubes are supposed to just work |
|
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
319
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
I took one look at the stats and knew immediately it was going to suck. Not only do you need to account for travel time and drop off, but the damage is pretty bad. Also, with a single shot clip, and a reload time of 3.5 seconds and a charge up time of .6, you effectively have a 4.1 second charge up time.
All in all, it does less damage than SLs or FGs, requires more skill than SLs or FGs, and has an effectively longer charge up time than SWs or FGs. It probably has a shorter range too. This weapon is absolutely useless. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
263
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube. Than they need to -drastically- increase it's projectile speed and splash radius. 3.5 meters is just slightly higher than a Forge Gun and even then you're going to be waiting for the round to actually land.
Yeah but it doesnt require a Heavy Suit to use. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube. Than they need to -drastically- increase it's projectile speed and splash radius. 3.5 meters is just slightly higher than a Forge Gun and even then you're going to be waiting for the round to actually land. Yeah but it doesnt require a Heavy Suit to use.
Neither does the Swarm Launcher, where's your ******* argument now? |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1051
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 12:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
189
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks maybe you should stop being a scrub tank driver? |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks
Bad troll is bad. AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
263
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube. Than they need to -drastically- increase it's projectile speed and splash radius. 3.5 meters is just slightly higher than a Forge Gun and even then you're going to be waiting for the round to actually land. Yeah but it doesnt require a Heavy Suit to use. Neither does the Swarm Launcher, where's your argument now? Edit: Fixed for brashness. Also, don't try to turn this into an anti-infantry tool, the Mass Driver is -FAR- more effective.
Because you can lock & fire swarm launchers at infantry ? Right ? lol
all i am saying is that its gonna be used like a Mass Driver by allot of people... |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:My guess is that its gonna be the NoobTube. Than they need to -drastically- increase it's projectile speed and splash radius. 3.5 meters is just slightly higher than a Forge Gun and even then you're going to be waiting for the round to actually land. Yeah but it doesnt require a Heavy Suit to use. Neither does the Swarm Launcher, where's your argument now? Edit: Fixed for brashness. Also, don't try to turn this into an anti-infantry tool, the Mass Driver is -FAR- more effective. Because you can lock & fire swarm launchers at infantry ? Right ? lol all i am saying is that its gonna be used like a Mass Driver by allot of people...
Perhaps I should put it in brail for you. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1051
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks Bad troll is bad. AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders.
Stop asking for another buff
You already got a 10% damage buff already
How about you use it instead |
Delta 749
Maverick Security Consulting
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks Bad troll is bad. AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders. Stop asking for another buff You already got a 10% damage buff already How about you use it instead
Cause 10% damage is totally all we need when you get both a health increase and resistance buff All because dumb ass tank drivers never learned to not drive into a group of people |
|
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
716
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
I was hoping for an Aurora ominae(Titan doomsday), you had one job ccp! |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1293
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks Bad troll is bad. AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders. Stop asking for another buff You already got a 10% damage buff already How about you use it instead
Yeah, you know that 10% damage buff DID NOT APPLY TO THE NEW WEAPONS, right?
Another **** poor tank driver who can't seem to grasp the concept of offense/defense |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1051
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks Bad troll is bad. AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders. Stop asking for another buff You already got a 10% damage buff already How about you use it instead Cause 10% damage is totally all we need when you get both a health increase and resistance buff All because dumb ass tank drivers never learned to not drive into a group of people
Vehicle drivers deserve that buff
Its PROTO AV vs BASIC vehicles as it is now and the new tanks are milita grade and are ****
Hence why you can easy solo anything |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1294
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Delta 749 wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks Bad troll is bad. AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders. Stop asking for another buff You already got a 10% damage buff already How about you use it instead Cause 10% damage is totally all we need when you get both a health increase and resistance buff All because dumb ass tank drivers never learned to not drive into a group of people Vehicle drivers deserve that buff Its PROTO AV vs BASIC vehicles as it is now and the new tanks are milita grade and are **** Hence why you can easy solo anything
Right, because no-one's going to risk running their Proto tank unless they know it's a worthy investment.
Like Planetary Conquest.
I give it two weeks before every corporation worth it's salt starts dishing out tanks like mad now that they've been buffed out the ass.
There was -NOT- that much bitching about the AV vs Vehicle debacle to warrant that drastic of a change.
Starter LAVs with 2000 EHP? Bullshit. Revert that **** immediately.
|
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1051
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Right, because no-one's going to risk running their Proto tank unless they know it's a worthy investment.
Like Planetary Conquest.
I give it two weeks before every corporation worth it's salt starts dishing out tanks like mad now that they've been buffed out the ass.
There was -NOT- that much bitching about the AV vs Vehicle debacle to warrant that drastic of a change.
Starter LAVs with 2000 EHP? Bullshit. Revert that **** immediately.
Its not a PROTO TANK
We dont even have a proto tank yet, we never had one, best we had was advanced which was the suyra and sagaris |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1294
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:49:00 -
[26] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Right, because no-one's going to risk running their Proto tank unless they know it's a worthy investment.
Like Planetary Conquest.
I give it two weeks before every corporation worth it's salt starts dishing out tanks like mad now that they've been buffed out the ass.
There was -NOT- that much bitching about the AV vs Vehicle debacle to warrant that drastic of a change.
Starter LAVs with 2000 EHP? Bullshit. Revert that **** immediately.
Its not a PROTO TANK We dont even have a proto tank yet, we never had one, best we had was advanced which was the suyra and sagaris
Then let me re-iterate to sate your narcissism.
-Higher tier- tanks. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
891
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks
As soon as tanks require a full crew to operate, I will accept the argument that it takes a crew of AV to kill one.
Until then...
One tank < One AVer of the next higher Meta Level
That's the only fair way to go. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1296
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 13:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:No they dont need to make another OP AV weapon
Stop trying to be a scrub and solo tanks As soon as tanks require a full crew to operate, I will accept the argument that it takes a crew of AV to kill one. Until then... One tank < One AVer of the next higher Meta Level That's the only fair way to go.
^ This. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
893
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote: Than they need to -drastically- increase it's projectile speed and splash radius.
3.5 meters is just slightly higher than a Forge Gun and even then you're going to be waiting for the round to actually land.
Yeah but it doesnt require a Heavy Suit to use.
Yeah, but it doesn't have the RANGE of a Forge Gun. The CFGAVW is a longer range weapon, so the Heavy can (in theory) operate from outside the range of the tank's small turrets and infantry screen.
The Plasma Cannon is a short-range weapon that requires the user to get up close and personal.
I would accept the idea of a single-shot, slow projectile weapon with little splash damage if its direct damage was massive.
Since it can't OHK a militia LAV at close range, its damage isn't even on the chart yet.
Furthermore, since it doesn't have a real magazine like CFGAVW, the user cannot even take enough shots to keep from getting run over by a Militia LAV. |
Laheon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
447
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
There are two sides to every argument, and the gist to this one is this.
One side are complaining that the tanks have too high HP and resistances, and that a couple of shots from AV does barely any damage anymore. The other side is saying that the HP buff is needed.
In essence, the pro-tank side is saying that a tank should be nigh unkillable unless ganged up upon. The other side is complaining that they can't solo vehicles with their proto AV weapons anymore.
Both sides are partially correct. Tanks should be, IF FIT CORRECTLY, very hard to kill unless you have dedicated, squad-based AV, and impossible to kill if you're solo. However, LAV's should be killed by a direct forge gun hit, as they have the mobility to throw off the aim of any forge gunner, and to outrun any swarm launcher. If you're close enough to get hit by an AV grenade, well... You're an idiot then, aren't you? I used to attract the attention of LAV drivers by shooting at them, then throw an AV grenade at them as they drove at me, jump out of the way and laugh.
Essentially, if you're using a tank and don't have a squad to back you up, you're an idiot, and you deserve to be killed. If you're trying to lone wolf it as a tank driver, on purpose, then you deserve to die. Tanks are technically corp-based equipment to be used on the battlefield, as only corps have the financial power to put a tank on the field every match. As an extension of that, that means that you should have teamwork in place, to back the tank up. Tanks are not meant to lone wolf it, ever.
On the other hand, people complaining that AV doesn't do anything anymore, well, frankly, if your team doesn't have dedicated AV squads (i.e. three or four people running around with proto AV and damage mods), then don't expect to take out vehicles quickly. I would expect to have to see two or three proto FGs working together to take out a Sagaris or a Gunnlogi, two to take out a dropship, and one firing a couple of shots to take out a decent LAV fit. |
|
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
397
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
lol it works as intented... nothing is needed. |
CharCharOdell
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
44
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
scrubs mad bc they cant solo tanks anymore. <3 |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
893
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:22:00 -
[33] - Quote
Laheon wrote:On the other hand, people complaining that AV doesn't do anything anymore, well, frankly, if your team doesn't have dedicated AV squads (i.e. three or four people running around with proto AV and damage mods), then don't expect to take out vehicles quickly. I would expect to have to see two or three proto FGs working together to take out a Sagaris or a Gunnlogi, two to take out a dropship, and one firing a couple of shots to take out a decent LAV fit.
I think you have the germ of a reasonable argument here. I clipped the parts above, though I agree with them.
I don't think that anyone on the AV side thinks that solo AV should kill a well-fit HAV protected by an infantry screen. That would be an asinine argument at best.
However, if you are suggesting that it should take a team of proto-fit heavies to take out a lol-fit HAV, that it unreasonable.
Game balance is achieved through the number of people required to counter something. If one person can operate something, then one person must be able to kill it- provided...
That the "victim" is not playing well and the "assailant" is playing well.
If you reverse who is playing well, then obviously the assailant should get pwned, not matter what gear he's rocking.
However, any time that lone wolf HAVs (or even LAVs now) can pubstomp an ambush in which people are pulling out all sorts of AV, there is something wrong in the game design. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
893
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:scrubs mad bc they cant solo tanks anymore. <3
No.
*Ahem* scrubs mad bc scrubs qqd tanks cant solo hol ambush an ccp buffs tanks so scrubs can solo ambush
How was my translation into "Scrub"?
English Translation:
"People are upset because CCP overbuffed HAVs because CCP certain solo tankers whined about not being able to lone wolf an entire ambush match." |
Vallud Eadesso
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Laheon wrote: Both sides are partially correct. Tanks should be, IF FIT CORRECTLY, very hard to kill unless you have dedicated, squad-based AV, and impossible to kill if you're solo. .
I've bolded the part I have an issue with. Why should that be the case? AV greandes are, to me, almost perfect. If you bring a tank in that close to infantry you should be soloed, and deserve to be soloed so incredibly easily because that's not what tanks are FOR. They should not be invulnerable K\D padders.
They're large, heavy hitting platforms whos power is out weighed by the fact they're HUGE and OH so easy to hit (In reality tank engagements are between 10-15KM average, that should indicate how easy they are to spot and engage). Also in reality tank crews spend more time finding ways to hide their tank and keep it 'Hull down' than firing the gun and they absolutely LOATH urban areas.
Go look up Thunder Run. Tanks are so exposed and vulnerable in urban areas that they simply floor all their tanks right to the capital under orders to not stop. Not even to shoot, do it on the move.
In Dust, if you let infantry get on top of you either by being lazy and trying it solo, or being a f*cking ****** and driving your tank in close to soldiers, you absolutely deserve to die because you don't actually KNOW how to use a tank. |
Specter RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
84
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
I think I should stat into it and try to use it like a derp ******
This weapon should be fun to use. |
JX1
Goonfeet
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 14:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
A good, intelligent AV player in "eh" equipment for the job that gets left alone should be able to kill advanced/proto HAV that's alone and driven by an insanely bad or AFK player.
I have several times played the role of the AV player in those situations, laughing in disbelief all the way to the ISK bank, and waking up the neighbours doing more laughter to forumQQ shortly afterwards.
AV and HAVs were fine in Chromosome.
Many tankers weren't. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2964
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:01:00 -
[38] - Quote
Vallud Eadesso wrote:Laheon wrote: Both sides are partially correct. Tanks should be, IF FIT CORRECTLY, very hard to kill unless you have dedicated, squad-based AV, and impossible to kill if you're solo. . I've bolded the part I have an issue with. Why should that be the case? AV greandes are, to me, almost perfect. If you bring a tank in that close to infantry you should be soloed, and deserve to be soloed so incredibly easily because that's not what tanks are FOR. They should not be invulnerable K\D padders. They're large, heavy hitting platforms whos power is out weighed by the fact they're HUGE and OH so easy to hit (In reality tank engagements are between 10-15KM average, that should indicate how easy they are to spot and engage). Also in reality tank crews spend more time finding ways to hide their tank and keep it 'Hull down' than firing the gun and they absolutely LOATH urban areas. Go look up Thunder Run. Tanks are so exposed and vulnerable in urban areas that they simply floor all their tanks right to the capital under orders to not stop. Not even to shoot, do it on the move. In Dust, if you let infantry get on top of you either by being lazy and trying it solo, or being a f*cking ****** and driving your tank in close to soldiers, you absolutely deserve to die because you don't actually KNOW how to use a tank. In my experience, it isn't - and SHOULDN'T BE - possible to make a tank that's totally immune to being soloed.
It IS possible to play a well-fitted tank in such a way that it WON'T be soloed, but with poor control, the same fitting backed by the same passives is still killable. The balance is that if you want to use your tank to kill a good AV player, and you're alone in it, then you're going to be at risk of them killing you too.
Working as intended, imo. |
Vaerana Myshtana
Bojo's School of the Trades
897
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:12:00 -
[39] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: In my experience, it isn't - and SHOULDN'T BE - possible to make a tank that's totally immune to being soloed.
It IS possible to play a well-fitted tank in such a way that it WON'T be soloed, but with poor control, the same fitting backed by the same passives is still killable. The balance is that if you want to use your tank to kill a good AV player, and you're alone in it, then you're going to be at risk of them killing you too.
Working as intended, imo.
It WAS working as intended. The HP buff for vehicles is going to seriously upset that balance. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1417
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
Had this thing on my alt and when aiming for a tank while shields are up you only get a 110% efficency. I put this in perspective now (basic lvl 1 weapons): swarms=69%= 910HP per volley forgegun=100% =1320HP per hit plasma canon= 110%=1155HP per hit
As you can see the plasma canon is the highest damage dealing weapon in the light weapon category but gets outclassed by the forgegun (heavy weapon). Downsides are that it has a firing arc and the projectile is slow which limits its engagements only up to close. Another downside is its 1 round clip which requires constant reloading which eliminates high DPS vs vehicles. Looked at fitting then you wont need PG for this weapon but alot of CPU which makes fitting damage mods hard to it compared to the swarm launcher and the forgegun. To be honest this weapon is underpowered and should have a bit more damage then a forgegun cause the balancing factor is the reload after each shot. What i cant understand aswell is the silly chargeup. I thought it was supposed to be a RPG kinda weapon but it reminds of a weird combination of a massdriver and a forgegun. Unfortunately it didnt recieved the strenght of its parents but more of their weaknesses. |
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iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
446
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Had this thing on my alt and when aiming for a tank while shields are up you only get a 110% efficency. I put this in perspective now (basic lvl 1 weapons): swarms=69%= 910HP per volley forgegun=100% =1320HP per hit plasma canon= 110%=1155HP per hit
As you can see the plasma canon is the highest damage dealing weapon in the light weapon category but gets outclassed by the forgegun (heavy weapon). Downsides are that it has a firing arc and the projectile is slow which limits its engagements only up to close. Another downside is its 1 round clip which requires constant reloading which eliminates high DPS vs vehicles. Looked at fitting then you wont need PG for this weapon but alot of CPU which makes fitting damage mods hard to it compared to the swarm launcher and the forgegun. To be honest this weapon is underpowered and should have a bit more damage then a forgegun cause the balancing factor is the reload after each shot. What i cant understand aswell is the silly chargeup. I thought it was supposed to be a RPG kinda weapon but it reminds of a weird combination of a massdriver and a forgegun. Unfortunately it didnt recieved the strenght of its parents but more of their weaknesses.
I agree.
Having played about with it today I think a two shot clip is in order. And a very light damage buff (+0/+3%/+5%) to the existing damage at the higher tiers.
The standard is fine.
Also your swarm launcher damage is wrong. Its 4x330 = 1320 damage. Thats if every missile hits.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2965
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 15:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vaerana Myshtana wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: In my experience, it isn't - and SHOULDN'T BE - possible to make a tank that's totally immune to being soloed.
It IS possible to play a well-fitted tank in such a way that it WON'T be soloed, but with poor control, the same fitting backed by the same passives is still killable. The balance is that if you want to use your tank to kill a good AV player, and you're alone in it, then you're going to be at risk of them killing you too.
Working as intended, imo.
It WAS working as intended. The HP buff for vehicles is going to seriously upset that balance. Before, I felt vehicles were too focused on damage-dealing, and not enough on survivability.
I've seen multiple tanks die to AV today, including a well-modded Creodron HAV (The Armour Pack one) getting soloed by my Militia Swarm Launcher.
Tanks are tougher to kill, but they don't hit as hard as they used to.
AV squad tactics are also more effective against a coordinated squad in a tank now. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1420
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 16:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
iceyburnz wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Had this thing on my alt and when aiming for a tank while shields are up you only get a 110% efficency. I put this in perspective now (basic lvl 1 weapons): swarms=69%= 910HP per volley forgegun=100% =1320HP per hit plasma canon= 110%=1155HP per hit
As you can see the plasma canon is the highest damage dealing weapon in the light weapon category but gets outclassed by the forgegun (heavy weapon). Downsides are that it has a firing arc and the projectile is slow which limits its engagements only up to close. Another downside is its 1 round clip which requires constant reloading which eliminates high DPS vs vehicles. Looked at fitting then you wont need PG for this weapon but alot of CPU which makes fitting damage mods hard to it compared to the swarm launcher and the forgegun. To be honest this weapon is underpowered and should have a bit more damage then a forgegun cause the balancing factor is the reload after each shot. What i cant understand aswell is the silly chargeup. I thought it was supposed to be a RPG kinda weapon but it reminds of a weird combination of a massdriver and a forgegun. Unfortunately it didnt recieved the strenght of its parents but more of their weaknesses. I agree. Having played about with it today I think a two shot clip is in order. And a very light damage buff (+0/+3%/+5%) to the existing damage at the higher tiers. The standard is fine. Also your swarm launcher damage is wrong. Its 4x330 = 1320 damage. Thats if every missile hits. I was talking about shield damage resistance profiles and you do only 69% dmage vs shields with a swarm launcher. So 910HP damage per volley is correct. |
Severance Pay
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
197
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 16:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
I used it on my alt, frankly I am impressed. In comparison the FG it is superior in infantry maneuvers, clearly inferior in sniper, and about the same in overall DpS here is the math
Level 5 FG Reload is 4.5 sec (3.8 with level 5 reload) Charge 3.0 sec Splash is 300 with 3m radius Direct 1500
Level 5 plasma Reload is 3.5(3 sec with level 5 reload) Charge is 0.5 Splash is 350 with 3.5 m radius Direct is 1300
Clearly the plasma shoots faster. Factor in reload and charge, it is faster dps than FG, sry. Keep in mind that forge gun is headvy and you cannot carry nanohives. The plasma is light and depending on your class you can have up to 3 nanohives, which makes the ammo argument irrelevent. You are also faster on the ground and charging doesn't have a mocement penalty. It also has a larger projectile which makes it really easy to hit infantry directly, heavies are screwed. This gun is superior to forgegun in everyway. |
Kiro Justice
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
99
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 16:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
We didn't see this coming from the gameplay teaser pre-uprising? |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1420
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 16:44:00 -
[46] - Quote
Severance Pay wrote:I used it on my alt, frankly I am impressed. In comparison the FG it is superior in infantry maneuvers, clearly inferior in sniper, and about the same in overall DpS here is the math
Level 5 FG Reload is 4.5 sec (3.8 with level 5 reload) Charge 3.0 sec Splash is 300 with 3m radius Direct 1500
Level 5 plasma Reload is 3.5(3 sec with level 5 reload) Charge is 0.5 Splash is 350 with 3.5 m radius Direct is 1300
Clearly the plasma shoots faster. Factor in reload and charge, it is faster dps than FG, sry. Keep in mind that forge gun is headvy and you cannot carry nanohives. The plasma is light and depending on your class you can have up to 3 nanohives, which makes the ammo argument irrelevent. You are also faster on the ground and charging doesn't have a mocement penalty. It also has a larger projectile which makes it really easy to hit infantry directly, heavies are screwed. This gun is superior to forgegun in everyway. its not higher DPS. You have to factor the reload time and the charegup together. Additionally the assault forgegun charges faster then the normal variant. So between each shot of the plasma canon are at least 3.5 secs. On a assault forgegun its merly 2.5 secs and you deal more damage and the shots are sright with much better accuracy. And a moving target over medium-long range requires to lead your shot massively and even then a tank driver could just reverse to dodge the plasma projectile. Hitting a dropship is nearly impossible with it and LAV's probs aswell due to their small size and speed. Another thing is the damage progression between each tier is minimal on the plasma canon its like around 90-100HP more then from the previous weapon. With swarms however you get a extra missile in the volley up to 6 missiles at once. This is a damage increase off 50% and outmatches the progression of all other AV weapons. |
iceyburnz
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
446
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 16:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:[
I was talking about shield damage resistance profiles and you do only 69% dmage vs shields with a swarm launcher. So 910HP damage per volley is correct.
Ah missed that, fair enough. |
Xender17
Oblivion S.G.X
64
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 16:55:00 -
[48] - Quote
I use it against infantry only. If you can increase the amount of ammo per clip by just 1 then its the perfect CQC, Down hill, Mid-range weapon for infantry. |
Rogatien Merc
Ill Omens EoN.
41
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:13:00 -
[49] - Quote
This was put in to give a ghetto forge to light and medium frames who did not want to skill into a sentinel. It is not supposed to be as powerful as the forge for either AV or anti-infantry capabilities... if you want a forge go get a GD forge. You traded the sentinel with its forge for your suit's increased mobility and the ability to carry equipment.
It is not a swarm launcher. It trades the swarm launcher's higher DPS on vehicles for the option to have an anti-infantry capability at mid-range (as opposed to simply a side arm). This is a compromise weapon that diversifies your options.
Also, you also haven't taken one of these to the face and been one shot in a proto suit with >800hp.
It's not supposed to one-shot LAVs. The reason they F'in raised the HP on LAVs was because they were too easily OHKOed which CCP decided was a bad thing (they are the GMs after all).
TL;DR: Quit your bitching. |
jackline kuivaliha
Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yeah, I got disapointed with the plasma aswell.
Though I have an suggsestion. Make plasma cannon like the alien cannon in Crysis 3 ( you who have played crysis 3, its that Cannon that fires 3 globes of energy, X-PACT Mortar or something it was called).
It would have 2-3 round magazine, with slightly longer charge up timer, but it would fire the whole magazine in one volley, like an mortar. to balance the burst damage, they would ofcourse disperse in different directions with the first shot being accurate and the following shots slinging slightly offcourse.
just my 0,05 isk |
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VLIGHT5
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
98
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
I don't know why I expected anything good. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Judging from the feedback, the weapon sounds like an anti infantry weapon(time to blast heavies)
still going to skill into it for PVe for the drones |
Sontie
Ill Omens EoN.
302
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Needs double damage against vehicles and a larger splash radius. |
Sontie
Ill Omens EoN.
302
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:52:00 -
[54] - Quote
jackline kuivaliha wrote:Yeah, I got disapointed with the plasma aswell.
Though I have an suggsestion. Make plasma cannon like the alien cannon in Crysis 3 ( you who have played crysis 3, its that Cannon that fires 3 globes of energy, X-PACT Mortar or something it was called).
It would have 2-3 round magazine, with slightly longer charge up timer, but it would fire the whole magazine in one volley, like an mortar. to balance the burst damage, they would ofcourse disperse in different directions with the first shot being accurate and the following shots slinging slightly offcourse.
just my 0,05 isk
how about the charge time has little ticks on it, and the more you charge, the more rounds it fires?
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
399
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
Sontie wrote:Needs double damage against vehicles and a larger splash radius. OP much? haven't been a shield tank on the receiving end of it? btw much larger splash and it'll be bigger then the MD radius. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 17:53:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tried firing it into a crowd of reds? |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:12:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yeah, I just invested a lot of SP into grabbing the Plasma Cannon and am completely underwhelmed by its performance. I don't see the usefulness of it compared to the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver.
Toxin Submachine gun is a better anti-infantry weapon, so is the Mass Driver. Swarm Launcher is a way better anti-vehicle weapon. I think it needs a bit more design focus. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
403
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Yeah, I just invested a lot of SP into grabbing the Plasma Cannon and am completely underwhelmed by its performance. I don't see the usefulness of it compared to the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver.
Toxin Submachine gun is a better anti-infantry weapon, so is the Mass Driver. Swarm Launcher is a way better anti-vehicle weapon. I think it needs a bit more design focus. you guys wanted a AV that's dumbfire so it can hit infantry if need that's strong vs shields that's also a light weapon with close DPS to the forge gun and yet people complain. everyone is to used to homing av weapons. w/e
nothing needs to be fixed. used it and it works pretty good. |
EXASTRA INVICTAS
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
ladwar wrote:EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Yeah, I just invested a lot of SP into grabbing the Plasma Cannon and am completely underwhelmed by its performance. I don't see the usefulness of it compared to the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver.
Toxin Submachine gun is a better anti-infantry weapon, so is the Mass Driver. Swarm Launcher is a way better anti-vehicle weapon. I think it needs a bit more design focus. you guys wanted a AV that's dumbfire so it can hit infantry if need that's strong vs shields that's also a light weapon with close DPS to the forge gun and yet people complain. everyone is to used to homing av weapons. w/e nothing needs to be fixed. used it and it works pretty good. I don't need it to home on the targets, and I can aim with it fine. It's just underwhelming (especially if it's supposed to be used for anti-infantry as well as vehicle). |
Shady IceCream Truck
Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:46:00 -
[60] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: Projectile that is slower than a mass driver round
Takes multiple shots to take out an LAV - less damage than a Swarm Launcher.
One round per 'magazine'
Nine rounds total
A -stupid- charge up time considering all of this.
Just saying, as excited as I was for this to be implemented, you kinda ruined any potential it ever had when you increased the EHP on -every vehicle in the game- without checking your newest AV tool.
Nice.
Edit: Also, it costs about 3x the CPU of the Swarm Launcher.
Additional Edit: Also, a 3.5 second reload time on a single shot weapon? Who's bright idea was this?
And without checking your oldeset AV weapons.. SWAARMS>> ffs.. cant kill umm anything |
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
403
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:50:00 -
[61] - Quote
EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:ladwar wrote:EXASTRA INVICTAS wrote:Yeah, I just invested a lot of SP into grabbing the Plasma Cannon and am completely underwhelmed by its performance. I don't see the usefulness of it compared to the Swarm Launcher and Mass Driver.
Toxin Submachine gun is a better anti-infantry weapon, so is the Mass Driver. Swarm Launcher is a way better anti-vehicle weapon. I think it needs a bit more design focus. you guys wanted a AV that's dumbfire so it can hit infantry if need that's strong vs shields that's also a light weapon with close DPS to the forge gun and yet people complain. everyone is to used to homing av weapons. w/e nothing needs to be fixed. used it and it works pretty good. I don't need it to home on the targets, and I can aim with it fine. It's just underwhelming (especially if it's supposed to be used for anti-infantry as well as vehicle). its not supposed for anti-infantry. its suppose to be a last measure of defense from infantry just like the forge gun. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
411
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
Its a mass driver on steroids but slow rate of fire. Fit 3 damage mods and 1 shot infantry. |
Polish Hammer
Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy
403
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 19:57:00 -
[63] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote: AV weapons weren't OP to begin with - too many idiots running militia tanks expecting them to work wonders. So much this. |
Alldin Kan
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
210
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 20:03:00 -
[64] - Quote
I just survived a direct impact of a Plasma Cannon while in my heavy suit, what now? |
Artemis Kaiba
Prima Gallicus
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 22:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
I've tested that weapon.
I don't know if a damage boost is needed but it definitely need larger blast area along with some higher projectile speed. Right now, it's almost impossible to hit any mobile unit (infantry or vehicle) with that weapon as the projectile is so slow and easy to evade. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4108
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:15:00 -
[66] - Quote
Confirms its best use as anti installation and anti-infantry. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
406
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:I just survived a direct impact of a Plasma Cannon while in my heavy suit, what now? I push you over and you take 1point of fall damage and melt. |
CaoticFox
Axis of Chaos
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:19:00 -
[68] - Quote
HOW DO U "LOB" A PLASMA CHARGE? Iwas hoping for a 1/2 FG... disappointed |
TheBlob95 B
GamersForChrist
7
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:34:00 -
[69] - Quote
Closing this thread due to trolling and the spreading of lies; Plasma Cannon is shear awesomeness...
JK
First time I used it, had a blast(no pun intended). It becomes a separate challenge to kill infantry with it, and when you do....a level of achievement unlike any other!(maybe a little over the top). I'll usually try to direct impact infantry and if the splash damage does enough, finish'em off with a sub-machine gun.
EDIT: I was serious about the shear awesomeness of the Plasma Cannon... |
CharCharOdell
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'm a tanker and honestly, that thing is a joke. I've run them over at least 5x today. Forges are OP, swarms are OP vs armor. AV nades are OP, but this thing is terrible. If it had a greater velocity it'd be decent. Or increase the splash radius so it can fight infantry better BC the niche its try a fill already belongs to the forge. |
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Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
269
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 23:57:00 -
[71] - Quote
Artemis Kaiba wrote:I've tested that weapon.
I don't know if a damage boost is needed but it definitely need larger blast area along with some higher projectile speed. Right now, it's almost impossible to hit any mobile unit (infantry or vehicle) with that weapon as the projectile is so slow and easy to evade.
yeah, when a guy can see you fire and sidestep it, that's a projectile that's waaaaay too slow. is nice when you can score a kill with it through a direct hit though. I basically use mine as a kind of grenade launcher when the vehicles aren't around for fear of EXO's it actually works pretty well when they're distracted. |
Zohnar Yifu
BetaMax. CRONOS.
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 00:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
I am not a tank driver in this build and instead became a logi. However in every other build I was dedicated to being a tank driver. It is true a lot of weapons can easily destroy tanks easier then this new weapon however this weapon has something the others done have that a lot might not realize.
The arch of the projectile has a drop rate much like the mass driver....This makes it easy to hide behind hills that are rather common in these maps. Meaning you can shoot a tank without the tank even being able to shoot you.
I use one on a Sica earlier today and if the tank didn't run away I would have gotten him in 4 shots using the standard version. Using one of these you can do more damage over time to a vehicle then a mass driver and it also takes shorter time to shoot then a forge or the time it takes swarms to lock onto something.
I think its a nice addition to the weapon choices but I do find it odd that its a light weapon and not a heavy weapon for the pure damage it does including the high CPU. |
Aeon Amadi
WarRavens
1313
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 07:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote: As you can see the plasma canon is the highest damage dealing weapon in the light weapon category but gets outclassed by the forgegun (heavy weapon). Downsides are that it has a firing arc and the projectile is slow which limits its engagements only up to close. Another downside is its 1 round clip which requires constant reloading which eliminates high DPS vs vehicles. Looked at fitting then you wont need PG for this weapon but alot of CPU which makes fitting damage mods hard to it compared to the swarm launcher and the forgegun. To be honest this weapon is underpowered and should have a bit more damage then a forgegun cause the balancing factor is the reload after each shot. What i cant understand aswell is the silly chargeup. I thought it was supposed to be a RPG kinda weapon but it reminds of a weird combination of a massdriver and a forgegun. Unfortunately it didnt recieved the strenght of its parents but more of their weaknesses.
The 0 PG is a glitch that they're going to fix, only compounding the CPU requirement issue.
Severance Pay wrote: Clearly the plasma shoots faster. Factor in reload and charge, it is faster dps than FG, sry. Keep in mind that forge gun is headvy and you cannot carry nanohives. The plasma is light and depending on your class you can have up to 3 nanohives, which makes the ammo argument irrelevent. You are also faster on the ground and charging doesn't have a mocement penalty. It also has a larger projectile which makes it really easy to hit infantry directly, heavies are screwed. This gun is superior to forgegun in everyway.
Forge Gun has much longer range and no projectile arch with -INCREDIBLE- projectile speed. The Plasma Cannon takes a lot more player skill to use but the benefits don't offset that at all. Anyone who's played Diablo can use a Forge Gun - it's just point and click. The Plasma Cannon requires predictive thought as to where the target is going, where the projectile is going to have to land before the target gets there and how much time has to pass for each of those things to occur.
The Plasma Cannon -should not- require the trigonometry skills of a real-life scout sniper. It does not perform NEARLY as well as the other AV alternatives and there are far too many detriments to it's "benefits".
The issue with your larger projectile argument is that the round moves so damned slow that infantry can strafe out of the way and not have to worry about the incoming damage at all.
Rogatien Merc wrote:It's not supposed to one-shot LAVs. The reason they F'in raised the HP on LAVs was because they were too easily OHKOed which CCP decided was a bad thing (they are the GMs after all).
TL;DR: Quit your bitching.
I'll accept that argument when my suit, all of my modules and the Plasma Cannon itself requires neither ISK nor SP to use. Until then, there is a major imbalance between this weapon and the starter LAVs.
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