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[WTF] Vehicle Recall used to repeatedly prevent vehicle loss (*Exploit?!*)

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Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 1778	Posted - 2013.06.01 04:55:00 - [61] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: I'm just curious why an RDV doesn't come to pick it up. Seems pretty devoid of risk that we can just recall almost instantly. You'll notice that there's a message about an RDV coming to pick it up when you initiate the recall. I assume at some point the RDV will actually have to come out and get the vehicle, giving you the opportunity to kill the HAV and the RDV.
General Erick Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 28	Posted - 2013.06.01 07:08:00 - [62] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: I'm just curious why an RDV doesn't come to pick it up. Seems pretty devoid of risk that we can just recall almost instantly. Yes! I was so bummed out that this didn't happen.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. CRONOS. 85	Posted - 2013.06.01 13:37:00 - [63] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Right. Title says it all. But, I suppose I'll elaborate. We're in a match, this dude keeps driving his Prototype Falchion tank into battle.. When **** starts to get hot (Read: We force him to use his Shield Booster), he simply drives a short distance away, triggers all the hardeners, pops out, and recalls the vehicle. In under 10 seconds, Poof, no more worry about losing his tank Then, true to form, he recalls it a few moments later from their red line. Is this seriously how this feature was meant to be used? Especially with the incoming buff in tank hit points, that only extends peoples window to perform this. Can we get some kind of 'Cancel' feature on this, where enemy damage cancels the recall action? Hell, it's faster than hacking a point, you can probably squeeze it in between Swarm launcher reloads even with that feature. CCP? CCP implement some kind of cooldown - so you can not call vehicle after recall immediately. It's 30sec period of time that prevent you from calling new vehicle. It is easy to bypass this game mechanic by calling new vehicle while recalling current one. I think that the only way to prevent this action from happening is to implement mechanic that allow to have just 1 vehicle per 1 player - in that case if someone jump out of vehicle, and try to call new one his request for new vehicle would be denied until he recall his current vehicle.
Wis Legend Astroya Guard Astroya Conglomerate 2	Posted - 2013.06.04 14:38:00 - [64] - Quote An aggression timer, as in Eve online.
slap26 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 682	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:35:00 - [65] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I would go with one of the following: Option 1: Recall the vehicle via RDV only thus giving AV guys a chance to blow it out of the sky. Option 2: Cancel the recall whenever the vehicle in question suffers damage of any kind. Then you shouldn't be able to switch dropsuits whenever you want at a supply depot.
slap26 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 682	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:39:00 - [66] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Nobody's saying remove the ability to recall vehicles. It's an awesome feature. But allowing recall MID-FIREFIGHT to cause them to simply vanish, just because the driver felt his investment was at risk? I highly doubt that was the spirit or intent of the feature. The moment an asset is brought on to the field, it's at risk. That's Dust at it's core. This feature in its current implementation removes that risk for Tank drivers in its entirety. Yes, they cost alot. They're also very powerful. Same for full proto-suits. But every time I put my suit on the line, I accept that risk that I may lose the fitting. Removing that in-combat risk for tank drivers is just absurd. As far as supply depots go, I'd just like to point out that the number of Depots was reduced drastically in Uprising maps, and that you can always destroy or retake a supply depot from suit-changers. It's really hard to compare that to stopping a magically vanishing tank. Then you shouldn't be able to quickly switch out of a proto suit when your about to die. And you magically get a new dropsuit.............
slap26 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 682	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:40:00 - [67] - Quote bcs1a wrote: Psychotic Shooter wrote: Dude your an idiot you really are yes we recall vehicles but you go a switch out suits to change weapons and regain health you also spam and just a pain so keep it the same ccp and stop this dude starting stupid posts like this wait wut? you guys run over infantry in vehicles that move so fast they can't get away, you chase down personnel on foot with your tanks or snipe them from across the map with your tank's railguns and land your dropships on top of them to crush them and the first time someone suits out to effectively fight you you recall your vehicle and have the unmitigated gall to call that man's post stupid? you guys are cowards and risk averse players, you wanna shoot someone in the face then do it on the ground, you wanna blow up a building or whatever, then use your tank, you need to transport troops?, then use the dropship to do it as was intended. you wanna tuck your tail between your legs like a sissy?, then go back to playing COD... what a fuckin joke that comment of yours is sir... o/ Bill Disclaimer* While the opinion stated in this post is a passionate one, no consonants or vowels were harmed in the writing of this post even though there are reports that grammar and punctuation may have been slightly bruised. Players like you are the reason why dust is turning into a terrible game
slap26 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 682	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:51:00 - [68] - Quote DropKickSuicide wrote: One thing I have not seen mentioned is the fact there are no Supply Depots in Ambush yet Pilots can still recall there Expensive Tank in a matter of seconds. I have also seen some people complaining about OP AV, well AV is not OP it actually works out pretty well when Basic is against basic and Adv vs Adv so Id say its pretty balanced there. Also fully specced AV Infentry is virtually useless against other Infentry YOU ARE NOT. Vehicles should not be able to be recalled in Ambush and Must take longer or have Designated areas for Vehicle Recall when in Skirmish Tell that to spector RND
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:53:00 - [69] - Quote +1 The recall timer is a joke, it takes the RDV 15 seconds (lol I know) to drop off your vehicle if it isn't qued. It should take 15 seconds for the RDV to come in, PICK IT UP!, then evac it out. Ill happily admit I use cheap dropships to get me on towers to toss an uplink then shoot from a tower, hell maybe even call it a tank and troll like crazy. Recall is awesome, enemies don't have a chance to stop me save shoot down my DS whist am getting there or worst, an enemy sniper already on another tower and puts one through my skull. Otherwise its a round of easy WP. Now, if I had the risk of having my DS/HAV whelped on the way in or out the battlefield, like it should be, I would definitely not engage in such unsportsmen like behaviour since am very poor. In any case, 5 seconds to recall your vehicle, common ccp where is the realism here? Its almost like your a ghostbuster and your **** gets sucked down into the trap lol, we all think the RDVs are useless but give them a chance to do their damn job. Give the enemy the rightful ability to hunt you down and take you out if you gotta bug out.
slap26 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 682	Posted - 2013.06.06 01:56:00 - [70] - Quote this thread boils down to terrible infantry players QQing about HAV players who were smart enough to recall their tank before the terrible infantry player could blow it up.

Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 86	Posted - 2013.06.06 04:24:00 - [71] - Quote There seems to be a few ideas that would make AV players happy: 1 - Require a vehicle to be within a certain range of a supply depot in order to recall it. 2 - Allow recalling to happen anywhere but have an RDV come to pick up the vehicle(what it says it's doing in game). 3 - Also mentioned was simply lengthening the time it takes the recall circle to finish. 4 - Leave recall as is but allow infantry to change suits anywhere(just for ***** and giggles). Option number 1 is unrealistic as there are so few supply depots available Option number 2 is what I personally like albeit with a few tweaks - a shorter recall circle as it will be waiting for the RDV to come, the recall point would have to be at an accessible location for the RDV to pick it up, allow initializing of the recall from inside the vehicle, all activated modules remain active but the vehicle goes into lockdown once initialized(preventing movement and further activation of modules or use of weapons unless the RDV is destroyed en route at which point all systems become available again(cooldowns still apply)). Once the RDV attaches all players are kicked out of the vehicle(yes, recall should be able to be used with other players in the vehicle). Option number 3 might work(it would work fine as a stopgap until RDV drivers get off the hallucinogens) Option number 4 would probably break the game(but if you think about it this is what the current recall system allows for vehicle drivers(albeit with a slight delay) and this is what seems to be the issue AV users in this thread have). I would love to be able to get into a quiet area and wait 30 seconds while some fairies bring me new gear.
bacon blaster BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 41	Posted - 2013.06.06 05:11:00 - [72] - Quote Ok, there are a few things people here are ignoring. First, the ds comparrison. Generally, when getting getting out a new suit, if you get attacked, you're dead before you finish getting the new suit out/get out of menus. Second, you can only switch suits at a supply depot. If there is no depot, like in regular ambush, there is no suit switching. With vehicle recall, you can do it in a few seconds in any location on any map. Second, the recaller can put his back to a wall, and the vehicle in front of himself, making it rather hard to get an angle on him. This, combined with the fact that he can recall at the location of his choosing and have the tank gone in less than 20 seconds, is a tad broken. Then, if he does start taking damage, he can just hop back in and ride off into the sunset. Next, the eve comparisons I saw ignored the agression timer. Basically, when someone gets shot at or ewared or in some way agressed, there is a brief timer that prevents the parties involved from docking up or jumping system. There is no such mechanic in Dust. Lastly, the bolus. These drunken things are about as dangerous to vehicles as av fits. The vehicle recall was implemented for two reasons: First, so that when a particular vehicle is no longer useful, it can be recalled without losing it so that the pilot isn't stuck out of the fight, and, second, should it become stuck somewhere, the pilot can again remove it from the field without losing millions. Bringing a tank out to the fight is supposed to be a huge risk, and dropships are not meant to be in a standing fight. Now, drop ships may not have the advantages of defenses or cover, like a tank does, but it generally has enough speed to get it out of trouble. Right now, I do see a good amount of abuse in the recall system for tanks, though. We'll beat a tank down, force the driver into cover, round the corner in something like 30 seconds, and do it from both directions, and there is no tank. Just a guy about to take it from both ends. I am ok with the magic warping system because boluses scare the **** out of me. The change I would make would be something like +30 second timer on recall, no skills or bonuses to lower it, then have it take 20 seconds for the tank to warp away, and then a full 2 minutes for you to be able to call in a new vehicle, and then a max of 2 recalls per match. This helps prevent the abusability of the recall, while still making it functional. Before people rant on about how nerfed tanks are vs how expensive, remember that this is a video game. People who don't use tanks need to be able to function as well. Tanks got nerfed because a lot of fights were determined not by infantry fighting them, but by who could get the most proto tanks out the fastest. An entire ambush could be run by two guys in tanks vs an entire team (I saw this happen where 1 team got two tanks out and spent the rest of the match farming spawns. This was not a rare occurrence) A tank is supposed to be a monsterous force on the field, yes, but it should not completely be devoid of risk to the user. Something this powerful should come with much larger risks than the average suit. Also, remember that every time you bring something out that isn't a free fit, you're doing it at YOUR OWN RISK. In Eve, there is the saying, "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose." Consider this relevant in Dust as well. If you can't bring it out and keep it without doing an emergency recall, then you should lose it. If you don't want to lose it or can't afford it lose it. don't bring it.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1173	Posted - 2013.06.06 11:32:00 - [73] - Quote Its not an exploit Its valid With all the OP proto AV against basic vehicles we should be allowed to do this Deal with it
ImpureMort Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 97	Posted - 2013.06.06 11:42:00 - [74] - Quote clearly your av sucked any tank that moves from the redline around real av is dead period...if your an av specialist step up your game...grab you lai dai;s and your wyka and invest ina serious lav
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 248	Posted - 2013.06.06 12:34:00 - [75] - Quote Most of us dedicated tankers put ALL of our sp into vehicles so once we are out of out tank we are pretty squishy in fact were so squishy a malitia ar will take us out rather quickley. Its a big risk getting out of your tank to recall as 1 sniper shot and your dead . Then your tank is either stolen by a suisidal bluberry or destroied.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 86	Posted - 2013.06.06 16:45:00 - [76] - Quote There are militia heavy suits you know, they are quite cheap and can take more than one sniper shot. If you have the skinweave heavy from a previous event then it's completely free. Also crouch - a smaller target is harder to hit and the cover afforded by your vehicle and any surrounding structures will keep you alive.
slap26 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 683	Posted - 2013.06.06 22:19:00 - [77] - Quote Stile451 wrote: There are militia heavy suits you know, they are quite cheap and can take more than one sniper shot. If you have the skinweave heavy from a previous event then it's completely free. Also crouch - a smaller target is harder to hit and the cover afforded by your vehicle and any surrounding structures will keep you alive. using a heavy suit doesn't let us carry an armor repairer....
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 82	Posted - 2013.06.06 23:09:00 - [78] - Quote slap26 wrote: Stile451 wrote: There are militia heavy suits you know, they are quite cheap and can take more than one sniper shot. If you have the skinweave heavy from a previous event then it's completely free. Also crouch - a smaller target is harder to hit and the cover afforded by your vehicle and any surrounding structures will keep you alive. using a heavy suit doesn't let us carry an armor repairer.... Yes and I actually needed this ability to save me 2.5million. My Falchion was brought down to 50 armor and caught fire. I had to quickly finish putting it into cover, jump out, switch to my repair tool, and start repping it in a matter of seconds. I just barely saved it and brought its armor back up. I was also fortunate that the blueberry in it remained in the too small turret instead of driving off with it into certain death. Thank you whoever you were!
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1097	Posted - 2013.06.07 00:38:00 - [79] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: lol@this ppl who are crying over this are the same assault tards who do the exact same thing at supply depots Supply depots auto rep vehicles and no one is complaining about that practice. Of course if you want to bind the recall feature to the supply depots..... Seriously tho it's not an accurate comparison. Also as a note regarding my prior post in this thread, having an RDV coming in to remove the vehicle as a mechanic seems fine assuming that the RDV no longer behaves as if it's pilot is drunken and concussed. The real mechanic that makes most sense to me however is some type of deaggression timer. Most vehicles are long range assets and man of them are quite speedy and much AV combat occurs at range, being able to pull under some pipes or behind a wall for a few seconds and save a nearly destroyed high value asset seems a bit over the top. Not the base practice, I think that's fine but the "anywhere at any time" aspect does seem a touch too easy as it's less difficult to prevent the loss of a million plus asset (after getting use out of it in match) than it is to swap infantry fittings (which usually several opposing players will need to do in order to counter a well fit vehicle). It's about maintaining risk vs reward and last time I recalled a vehicle it took less time than hacking a null cannon (and unlike the cannon hack can be done anywhere on the map without triggering a game wide alert for the opposing team). In any event the recall feature certainly should remain in game, it's simply a question of appropriate scaling. [Perhaps the players hacking rate could effect recall speed?] Cheers, Cross
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 86	Posted - 2013.06.07 05:33:00 - [80] - Quote slap26 wrote: Stile451 wrote: There are militia heavy suits you know, they are quite cheap and can take more than one sniper shot. If you have the skinweave heavy from a previous event then it's completely free. Also crouch - a smaller target is harder to hit and the cover afforded by your vehicle and any surrounding structures will keep you alive. using a heavy suit doesn't let us carry an armor repairer.... Then spend a little bit more on a militia logi suit with militia shield extenders and militia armor plates - that too can take a sniper bullet. If you're not safe you shouldn't be recalling your vehicle anyway(unless you're one of those who are abusing the recall mechanic).

pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries DARKSTAR ARMY 251	Posted - 2013.06.07 06:29:00 - [81] - Quote Stile451 wrote: There are militia heavy suits you know, they are quite cheap and can take more than one sniper shot. If you have the skinweave heavy from a previous event then it's completely free. Also crouch - a smaller target is harder to hit and the cover afforded by your vehicle and any surrounding structures will keep you alive. Can you carry a malitia rep tool on your heavy suit ...... no I dont have problems as im smart when I call my tank back but I have seen others loose their tanks because well they wern that smart.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 86	Posted - 2013.06.07 18:04:00 - [82] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: Can you carry a malitia rep tool on your heavy suit ...... no I dont have problems as im smart when I call my tank back but I have seen others loose their tanks because well they wern that smart. I already answered that, look at the post just before yours. In any case this is already being looked into by CCP.
Valmar Shadereaver GUNNING HEAVY STYLE 18	Posted - 2013.06.11 22:16:00 - [83] - Quote im sure alot of ppl are sick and tired of cowardly vechical user's recaling there vechical's after losing 1% of there health on it i know i am and there's a eazy way to fix it whitout removing recall optoin example: after taking damage lock recal function for 60 second's why 60 second's? it's a short amount of time seeing game's can take over 30min if there are balanced team's why after taking damage locking the recal? cause sissy tanker's/murder taxi's who are camping edge of the redline cant run like the coward's they are to recal while they are geting attacked why lock the recal you ask simply 1 if a vechical is geting attacked your not going to load it up and transport it in real life either 2 you called it in mean's you accept the risk of losing it 3 if you dont accept you can potentoinaly lose it dont call it in 4 if your greedy and dont wanne lose the money it costed dont call it in
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 755	Posted - 2013.06.11 22:26:00 - [84] - Quote I've run into this a few times. Vehicles almost destroyed... back slightly out of view.. recalled seconds later. It does seem like an exploit of sorts. A vehicle pilot potentially has no sacrifices to make in versatility. They come in with whatever kind of dropsuit... they need the flexibility of a vehicle, they call it in... gets damaged... they remove it. They still have whatever flexibility their dropsuit affords them. On the other hand, if they killed a person, and that person comes back with an AV fit to attack them? The second the driver recalls the vehicle, the other person has no ready quick-change option unless they're near a supply depot (assuming they even access to one at that map). The AV person is screwed, effectively - and is limited to where they can get out of their gimp suit. The driver can CALL/RECALL a vehicle anywhere on a map at practically anytime.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 470	Posted - 2013.06.18 15:39:00 - [85] - Quote Copied from another thread of same topic: Agreed that the vehicle recalling is too easy. Reasons for that are: - Hacking takes only a short time - Vehicle begins to dematerialize IMMEDIATELY which is the biggest issue - RDV is not used in recalling I understand it takes serious effort to create algorithms for bolas able to enter the field and pickup from whereever. But it actual recalling should be at least scheduled. DISCLAIMER: If someone thinks this is a rant of a sadface AV runner, I do use tanks. Example: Recalling A-I blaster tank at first sight of red tank and swapping to rail to pop it While railtanking on far hills and being sacked by AV infantry, just reverse 20m into cover and recall precious tank. After that, shoot red swarms and forges into head with TAC AR. So too easy from that point of view also.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1144	Posted - 2013.07.07 05:32:00 - [86] - Quote I like that this is marked [WTF]. This still comes up alot. All a pilot needs is to be out of the line of fire for a few seconds... and vehicle saved. It benefits me a lot when piloting dropships wherever. My ship can be totally wrecked, just make sure it's not flaming.. and in less than the time it would take to use a repair module while flying it, my ship is saved. Despite the benefit to me, it's still lol-crazy-broken.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 140	Posted - 2013.07.07 09:38:00 - [87] - Quote Seeing crazy amounts of this happening since 1.2; CCP, where you at with that fix?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 609	Posted - 2013.07.07 11:20:00 - [88] - Quote Vehicle recall - It is getting abused a little Example - HAV getting whacked by an enemy, he jumps out and manages to recall it saving it 2 problems here for me 1. If the vehicle is getting whacked by an enemy and the enemy is causing damage you shouldnt be able to recall it till maybe 30secs after the last bit of damage - It stops players hopping out and instantly recalling it 2. If the vehicle is below 30% of its total HP it cannot be recalled - This gives the attacking AV or vehicle a chance to kill the vehicle and it stops johnny from nipping out and doing a 5sec button press to instantly recall it before its about to die Now this would be ideal with squad lock and the ability to kick players out of vehicles because atm if someone is in your tank you cannot recall it or get rid of them or prevent them from entering your tank in the 1st place Taken from here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=925183#post925183
nukel head Knights of No Republic 40	Posted - 2013.07.07 14:55:00 - [89] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: dunno how many vehicle drivers are in this post but allow me to add a dropship pilots view on this. My assault dropship runs me 1,491,420 isk if i loose one, i have to grind quite a few games to get it back. These dropships are just as vulnerable to forgeguns as the regular ones, and tanks can almost one shot it. Dont even get me started on the people who just sit in a rail turret. I think its nice that if i call it in and 3 rail shots wizz by i dont have to loose this very very expensive dropship and i can still go and fight instead of flying circles in the red line because i cant leave the dropship. I can see some peoples frustration in the fact that you dont get a kill on the tank/dropship but please keep in mind that you have still gotten rid of it, and as a dedicated dropship pilot you have denied me my job, but thats ok because i dont have to go grind 20 games for my dropship again. i think this is a fair trade The recall feature was added so you didn't have to throw away your vehicle, which is great and was needed. The problem is that there are a number of tank drivers that are exploiting this feature to basically teleport their tank to a safe area of the map fully restored.
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 13	Posted - 2013.07.07 16:29:00 - [90] - Quote Someone mentioned it but and it was a good idea. If the vehicle is not at 100% health, then an RDV should deny the pickup.



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