I don't think anybody got a billion ISK, but I know I picked up about 200 mil. I think the ISK disparities will start to diminish over time, especially when more expensive stuff starts coming in. A ton of that money will be thrown right into PC to get districts, so that will probably curb the number of people fighting in proto in public matches as well.

Still, it's certainly a problem that should be addressed to make it better for newer players.

CCP is being stupid by putting better match making a low priority. They need to implement a system that keeps proto guys away from noobs now not next year. Just another way they are killing their own game before it even gets to launch

CCP is being stupid by putting better match making a low priority. They need to implement a system that keeps proto guys away from noobs now not next year. Just another way they are killing their own game before it even gets to launch

I think the primary reason is that they only have like 4k on a time. With such a low player count it could make any matchmaking endeavors problematic.

Good to see I'm not alone, crying in a corner.

(Appreciate the responses guys!)

I'm a newer player with less than 2m sp. So if this invalidates my opinion to you, please don't bother responding.

I'm somewhat casual, I suppose in that I don't get on the mic and play for hours with a team. Here's what I've noticed that's my primary gripe at the moment. I can live with not running Logi, as much as I hated to give it up. My problem is the primary deterrent from running full proto all the time is gone. There are people who were refunded billions of ISK.

Newberries like myself spawn in to play pub matches and we get proto-stomped into the ground as there are no checks on these older players. What's gonna happen at launch when we get X many more new people? Will it be easier because the player base will be larger, thus dispersing the high SP veterans over different matches? Or will they rain hate on them and scare them away?

Right now, someone with my SP and gear stands little to no chance against these full proto suits. I can kill them, sure. But if I'm ever in a close range firefight, I'm boned because of their gear. Every time. Now, don't tell me it's skill, because it's really not. If the teams are evenly matched, I do ok. Hell, I make top 3 almost every single time in BF3. It's not skill, I'm a good player.

I was just in two matches today where the other team was rocking full proto, all match long. I got a basic medium suit and a Gek. I love this game, it's just super unbalanced at the moment. You vets can defend the game all you want, stating that you've earned it this that or the other, but the bottom line is it's unbalanced and extraordinarily difficult for newberries to find enjoyment in the game due to the extreme SP disparity. I understand that this is a MMOFPSRPG or whatever. I get that gear is important. At a certain point however, that point is moot.

So, flame away. Tell me to "Adapt or die" but if you're not a newberry, you probably don't get it.

I'm not sure how well the "defensive" concept works (unless you start giving out wp for surviving rather than killing) but one way to do it is to add a suppression effect to the HMG which disrupts aim.

I think CCP will eventually make it so protos can't be used in pub matches. It's the same thing they've done with capital ships and certain boosters in Eve.

I'm a newer player with less than 2m sp. So if this invalidates my opinion to you, please don't bother responding.

I'm somewhat casual, I suppose in that I don't get on the mic and play for hours with a team. Here's what I've noticed that's my primary gripe at the moment. I can live with not running Logi, as much as I hated to give it up. My problem is the primary deterrent from running full proto all the time is gone. There are people who were refunded billions of ISK.

Newberries like myself spawn in to play pub matches and we get proto-stomped into the ground as there are no checks on these older players. What's gonna happen at launch when we get X many more new people? Will it be easier because the player base will be larger, thus dispersing the high SP veterans over different matches? Or will they rain hate on them and scare them away?

Right now, someone with my SP and gear stands little to no chance against these full proto suits. I can kill them, sure. But if I'm ever in a close range firefight, I'm boned because of their gear. Every time. Now, don't tell me it's skill, because it's really not. If the teams are evenly matched, I do ok. Hell, I make top 3 almost every single time in BF3. It's not skill, I'm a good player.

I was just in two matches today where the other team was rocking full proto, all match long. I got a basic medium suit and a Gek. I love this game, it's just super unbalanced at the moment. You vets can defend the game all you want, stating that you've earned it this that or the other, but the bottom line is it's unbalanced and extraordinarily difficult for newberries to find enjoyment in the game due to the extreme SP disparity. I understand that this is a MMOFPSRPG or whatever. I get that gear is important. At a certain point however, that point is moot.

So, flame away. Tell me to "Adapt or die" but if you're not a newberry, you probably don't get it.

Sorry about the typos and missing words in my last post before this one, everything is fixed now though.

I, like the majority of this thread, simply disagree with you mate. I'm all for putting time in and getting somewhere but right now you simply don't understand the gear disparity by the new SP system as you're well beyond it.

Not being a ****, but you seem to be on a different wavelink than what this thread is attempting to say. I really don't care to get my ass handed to me over and over, that's not the issue. Not QQing about that. I'm talking about how newberries are regulated to these basic suits for the first month or so of gameplay. It's offputting and proto vets will **** you everytime, regardless to skill level. I get your points and I respect what you have to say, I just don't see the validity in it.

And as I said, your prospective is all wrong for this game.

I've been accused of being a CCP fanboy, with good reason, but I can honestly say that whoever deemed that any sort of matchmaking is a low priority should immediately be dragged out back and shot (figuratively speaking of course). As if getting past the usual "Huh? WTF is Dust 514?" comment that most people experience when telling friends about the game wasn't disheartening enough, the majority of people I do manage to introduce to Dust are immediately turned off by the rampant pub stomping.

Even if EvE, we have places for noobs to learn and skill up before throwing them up against t2 or deadspace fitted opponents (ignoring the usual Bait-Can faggotry found in tutorial systems). I don't think anyone is asking for mandatory gear or skill checking for every match, but by God, it should at least be an option. If you do nothing else but make a militia only tier and then work your way up, that would be a major improvement. Call it Bootcamp/Training or some other RP nonsense.

If you're hoping PvE is going to bridge the gap between noobs and vets, you better pray it's the best damned PvE experience anyone has ever had. Judging by EvE's current PvE standards, I'm not holding my breath, no offense. Wake up CCP. There's nothing hardcore about a free Playstation game with less than 5k players on a weeknight. Dust has a lot of potential but I'm afraid it will never be realized if there's no one there to experience it.

It's broken. Uprising update took Dust a step backwards.

Most of your (legitimate) complaints will be taken care of with proper matchmaking. That will be only possible with higher player count than the 5k peak we have atm, though.

It's broken. Uprising update took Dust a step backwards.

Most of your (legitimate) complaints will be taken care of with proper matchmaking. That will be only possible with higher player count than the 5k peak we have atm, though.

We wont get higher player counts unless the game becomes new player friendly.

I already replied last page.

My point is, no matter how much you believe in what you're saying. End of the day, player retention will make or break this game. If there isn't enough money coming in, they won't bother losing money on server upkeeps. All I'm saying is make the roles more pronounced for nubs, right now a brand new player is more than 1.5m away from any role, and thats if they beeline for it and ignore all other skills.

We're talking months just to be able to play a class. That's the problem. Not to mention those months put in are of non-stop beatings in pubmatches. I get your point and all, and I respect you are where you are because you fought tooth and nail for it. I'm just saying we need something to keep people in the game. I like the game and i want it to last, don't you?

I have been there before man, you are not telling me anything I don't already know. I have put in the months worth or work you are speaking of. Only it was not as of putting for me as you describe it here. Change your tactics man do what is necessary to stay alive, do what is necessary to kill your enemies, don't get so overwhelmed by loosening pub matches that you have little to no control over who you are fighting with or against. Find good players/a good corp to play with and field squads into pub matches/play in corpbattles/planetary conquest.

If none of this helps you then I don't know what to tell you man.

In the beginning EVE was also doubted as a monumental failure, look where it is now. Only time will tell.

Uprising was more than a step backwards, it was the gun CCP used to kill their own game. The only way to save the game is to rollback to the last update or quickly fix all issues before launch. Once launch hits bad reviews will start pouring in. The few people who might actually have gotten into the game after launch will be turned away by a 3/10 review saying new players stand no chance.

I'm a newer player with less than 2m sp. So if this invalidates my opinion to you, please don't bother responding.

I'm somewhat casual, I suppose in that I don't get on the mic and play for hours with a team. Here's what I've noticed that's my primary gripe at the moment. I can live with not running Logi, as much as I hated to give it up. My problem is the primary deterrent from running full proto all the time is gone. There are people who were refunded billions of ISK.

Newberries like myself spawn in to play pub matches and we get proto-stomped into the ground as there are no checks on these older players. What's gonna happen at launch when we get X many more new people? Will it be easier because the player base will be larger, thus dispersing the high SP veterans over different matches? Or will they rain hate on them and scare them away?

Right now, someone with my SP and gear stands little to no chance against these full proto suits. I can kill them, sure. But if I'm ever in a close range firefight, I'm boned because of their gear. Every time. Now, don't tell me it's skill, because it's really not. If the teams are evenly matched, I do ok. Hell, I make top 3 almost every single time in BF3. It's not skill, I'm a good player.

I was just in two matches today where the other team was rocking full proto, all match long. I got a basic medium suit and a Gek. I love this game, it's just super unbalanced at the moment. You vets can defend the game all you want, stating that you've earned it this that or the other, but the bottom line is it's unbalanced and extraordinarily difficult for newberries to find enjoyment in the game due to the extreme SP disparity. I understand that this is a MMOFPSRPG or whatever. I get that gear is important. At a certain point however, that point is moot.

So, flame away. Tell me to "Adapt or die" but if you're not a newberry, you probably don't get it.

My gameplay isn't the issue, friend. I play well, I get kills and I do ok. That's not even remotely the problem. And I highly doubt a corp carrying me is the solution to this issue, it's deeper than that.

You're clearly in a different mindset, which while I appreciate isn't what I'm going for. I'd bet my bottom dollar that most newberries feel pretty much the same as I do. New blood is the life of a FPS and while I get what you're saying (Seriously, I really do) you just seem to be out of touch.

Really small changes can fix the issues I've brought up. I'm not asking to change the dynamics of the game, just asking for a little matchmaking or something to make the beginning a little less off putting to new players. I played before this patch and I liked the SP gains and the game just fine.

I don't know how to make it any more clear, 2m + several months to get in something beyond a basic suit is not only atrocious, but it's asinine. I'm clearly not gonna change your mind as much as you're not changing mine so let's just agree that we have different views on the matter.

And my point is nothing has changed.

Except the game is an SP sink now and it takes Tech 5 in faction dropsuit skill just to get into a suit. That's a big change dude, where are you?

As in previously it was all of 300k or less to get into a role suit, now it's well over 1.5 million.

Dude did you not just see me tell you that I am currently running basic advanced level dropsuits and absolutely destroying people with them (faction dropsuit included). Where the hell are you man.

With 5m sp, at least 3 times what I have and 10x what a newberry has. Try again please.

It takes time man. Patience is a virtue. Nothing has changed.

It doesn't take that much to get into a basic suit... it's the specific suits behind that which will cost you an arm and a leg. You don't need those fancy shmancy suits to play well.

@Dazereth

Well I am sorry that I seem to be upsetting you. I have recruited and helped a lot of newberries an my player retention is pretty good. Look message me in game come role with a few of us salty vets and see if that changes your mind any. Trust me, I know where you are coming from and what you are trying to get across to me, but I am inviting you to come and see it from my side.

Nah man, I get what you're saying and all. I'm saying, compared to last build, it's an SP sink to get into a competitive suit. Tell me basic suits aren't trash and I'll tell you where I can find a crazy person.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=761478#post761478 ppl dont render guns dont have range MD doesnt work injectors dont work.......

Proto Stomping won't be forever... Once Faction Warfare is actually working and Planetary Conquest is released you won't see many proto's in instant battles anymore because of the low isk payout. Right now all players are living in the high sec starting zone that is instant battles, however as soon as they are available veteran players will move to greener pastures with much higher isk payouts in FW and PC that will actually supprt then dieing 4-5 times in a full proto suit.

Yes in its current state dust is broken, but the fix is on the way.

Sorry man, just not agreeing with you. Its not that I haven't played, or don't play correctly. I'm sure after a certain time/Sp is achieved I won't complain, but that still won't make it any easier on the new players.

Which is why it is important for these new players to get into good/decent corps, in order to them through that darkest hour. But the only person who can help them do that is themselves. Unfortunate. Freewill?

iv seen worst bug than these on a paid game. Launch day New Vegas anyone

I would be nice to have an ambush mode where you could only use free suits. Spent a few weeks there learning the game and growing your skill points.

Unfortunately I lack a mic for the PS3, so I'm really quite useless to corps as it stands.

Legit, or have like a "Nub League" where people 3m sp and lower can have their own bracket before being thrown to the wolves.

IDK if it should be SP based, I think it would be better if it were meta based. Have one variety where you can only use Starter Fits, one where you can only use Standard gear, another only Advanced and finally only proto.

I know it has been brought up before, I just felt it needed interjected here.

The solution: make STD gear very easy to skill into. Give a new merc enough skill points out of the box to skill into STD gear and at least level 2 in the core skills. Give them a road map for said skills so they aren't lost. Perhaps an in game video that plays upon making a new character which shows how to join a corp, how to pick a corp, how to skill into a specific field without wasting SP, and then a training course- a boot camp, if you will. Starter corps also need a change. A player should immediately put into a starter corp that is populated by teachers. I know it's crazy, but if new players were immediately given the option to join Dust University or Bojo's School of the Trades, this game would be a little easier to handle. Sure, these places exist, but a new player will not find it unless someone points them at it.

As of now, new players are thrown to the wolves. Sure, those of us that have stuck around have become vicious wolves that can rip apart these new scrubs 7 at a time, but it means that eventually, we're only gonna be playing the same 5000 people forever and that's no fun. Perhaps, if for the first 2 weeks of a character's creation, they would be given the option to only be put in battles with other characters who have existed for 2 weeks or less. After that, they can no longer use that battle finder option.

This will work because nobody is getting nerfed. Nobody is getting buffed. Everything stays the same except new players won't be as lost in the sauce as they are now and the vets can find new people to play with. This game is becoming a stagnant pool and I'm sick of it.

STFU NOOB, HTFU!!!

J/k yea exactly the point. This game is even less new player friendly than it was before. New players are the lifeblood of this game and yet they have even less reason to commit time into this game. A new player doesn't care what CCP did before or what their history is they care about what they see in front of them.

There is no carrot when you are "regulated" at every step of the way. There is no ability to grind through the growing pains there is no way to balance it out with other game modes without a larger player count to ensure matchmaking works.

Sandbox and adapt or die in Dust didnt have to be identical to the model in EVE and this is exactly why it shouldnt have been.

I, like the majority of this thread, simply disagree with you mate. I'm all for putting time in and getting somewhere but right now you simply don't understand the gear disparity by the new SP system as you're well beyond it.

Not being a ****, but you seem to be on a different wavelink than what this thread is attempting to say. I really don't care to get my ass handed to me over and over, that's not the issue. Not QQing about that. I'm talking about how newberries are regulated to these basic suits for the first month or so of gameplay. It's offputting and proto vets will **** you everytime, regardless to skill level. I get your points and I respect what you have to say, I just don't see the validity in it.

I'm a newer player with less than 2m sp. So if this invalidates my opinion to you, please don't bother responding.

I'm somewhat casual, I suppose in that I don't get on the mic and play for hours with a team. Here's what I've noticed that's my primary gripe at the moment. I can live with not running Logi, as much as I hated to give it up. My problem is the primary deterrent from running full proto all the time is gone. There are people who were refunded billions of ISK.

Newberries like myself spawn in to play pub matches and we get proto-stomped into the ground as there are no checks on these older players. What's gonna happen at launch when we get X many more new people? Will it be easier because the player base will be larger, thus dispersing the high SP veterans over different matches? Or will they rain hate on them and scare them away?

Right now, someone with my SP and gear stands little to no chance against these full proto suits. I can kill them, sure. But if I'm ever in a close range firefight, I'm boned because of their gear. Every time. Now, don't tell me it's skill, because it's really not. If the teams are evenly matched, I do ok. Hell, I make top 3 almost every single time in BF3. It's not skill, I'm a good player.

I was just in two matches today where the other team was rocking full proto, all match long. I got a basic medium suit and a Gek. I love this game, it's just super unbalanced at the moment. You vets can defend the game all you want, stating that you've earned it this that or the other, but the bottom line is it's unbalanced and extraordinarily difficult for newberries to find enjoyment in the game due to the extreme SP disparity. I understand that this is a MMOFPSRPG or whatever. I get that gear is important. At a certain point however, that point is moot.

So, flame away. Tell me to "Adapt or die" but if you're not a newberry, you probably don't get it.

Disagree, because who levels all of them at once. If it's meta level then you're gimped til you get all of your skills up to the next meta and slot fittings would make for wonky matchmaking.

and it would lead to twinking most likely

See, I wasn't considering high/low mods in the equation, I was figuring that it would be based solely off of Dropsuit/Weapon meta.

Yeah but if that were the case people would just twink out everything else and leave their weapon and dropsuit metas at advanced and rock proto shields and armor.

So then they'd only be a worry for people in the Advanced bracket. Like missions in Eve, they should have 4 brackets (not counting level 5's)

I'm a newer player with less than 2m sp. So if this invalidates my opinion to you, please don't bother responding.

I'm somewhat casual, I suppose in that I don't get on the mic and play for hours with a team. Here's what I've noticed that's my primary gripe at the moment. I can live with not running Logi, as much as I hated to give it up. My problem is the primary deterrent from running full proto all the time is gone. There are people who were refunded billions of ISK.

Newberries like myself spawn in to play pub matches and we get proto-stomped into the ground as there are no checks on these older players. What's gonna happen at launch when we get X many more new people? Will it be easier because the player base will be larger, thus dispersing the high SP veterans over different matches? Or will they rain hate on them and scare them away?

Right now, someone with my SP and gear stands little to no chance against these full proto suits. I can kill them, sure. But if I'm ever in a close range firefight, I'm boned because of their gear. Every time. Now, don't tell me it's skill, because it's really not. If the teams are evenly matched, I do ok. Hell, I make top 3 almost every single time in BF3. It's not skill, I'm a good player.

I was just in two matches today where the other team was rocking full proto, all match long. I got a basic medium suit and a Gek. I love this game, it's just super unbalanced at the moment. You vets can defend the game all you want, stating that you've earned it this that or the other, but the bottom line is it's unbalanced and extraordinarily difficult for newberries to find enjoyment in the game due to the extreme SP disparity. I understand that this is a MMOFPSRPG or whatever. I get that gear is important. At a certain point however, that point is moot.

So, flame away. Tell me to "Adapt or die" but if you're not a newberry, you probably don't get it.

I'm a newer player with less than 2m sp. So if this invalidates my opinion to you, please don't bother responding.

I'm somewhat casual, I suppose in that I don't get on the mic and play for hours with a team. Here's what I've noticed that's my primary gripe at the moment. I can live with not running Logi, as much as I hated to give it up. My problem is the primary deterrent from running full proto all the time is gone. There are people who were refunded billions of ISK.

Newberries like myself spawn in to play pub matches and we get proto-stomped into the ground as there are no checks on these older players. What's gonna happen at launch when we get X many more new people? Will it be easier because the player base will be larger, thus dispersing the high SP veterans over different matches? Or will they rain hate on them and scare them away?

Right now, someone with my SP and gear stands little to no chance against these full proto suits. I can kill them, sure. But if I'm ever in a close range firefight, I'm boned because of their gear. Every time. Now, don't tell me it's skill, because it's really not. If the teams are evenly matched, I do ok. Hell, I make top 3 almost every single time in BF3. It's not skill, I'm a good player.

I was just in two matches today where the other team was rocking full proto, all match long. I got a basic medium suit and a Gek. I love this game, it's just super unbalanced at the moment. You vets can defend the game all you want, stating that you've earned it this that or the other, but the bottom line is it's unbalanced and extraordinarily difficult for newberries to find enjoyment in the game due to the extreme SP disparity. I understand that this is a MMOFPSRPG or whatever. I get that gear is important. At a certain point however, that point is moot.

So, flame away. Tell me to "Adapt or die" but if you're not a newberry, you probably don't get it.

I say being a new player definatly gives a better perspective of what CCP wants, they allready got lots of bitter vets. Us with 8-10 million can get a protosuit with protomods, but how long wiil it take a 2 million SP person to do timewise? Do you think they can be retained untill then?

So then they'd only be a worry for people in the Advanced bracket. Like missions in Eve, they should have 4 brackets (not counting level 5's)

Bump before I go out to run errands.

What do you guys think would be an acceptable solution that maintains balance but also keeps that "Carrot" dangling to keep our new and old players into it?

All i can think of is have a matchmaking system. Have a place vets can compete with others on their level and newbs play against other newbs to learn the game and to find a fitting that works with their play style.