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ISuperstar
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2013.05.08 05:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nerf the Logi's? The most critical role on the battlefield!?
Are you Nucking Futz!? |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
725
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Posted - 2013.05.08 05:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:Flux grenade you jackass nuff said. Youre dead by a 2 complex damg mod duvolle AR while you throw it . whos the jackass now.
You are for thinking you have to nade while under direct fire...
My smg/flux combo works just fine in CQC.
Logis do not need a nerf. Are you serious? If a player wants to sacrifice a sidearm slot for a bonus to fitting, then cool. I've got no problems with that. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
538
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:00:00 -
[33] - Quote
Back on topic: You guys QQing over logis need to take in account that the Assaults (which I assume you're comparing logis to) actually have combat oriented bonuses like hybrid weapon reload rate, sidearm capacity, laser heat build up, and hybrid weapon efficiency. Logis finally get a buff to the point that they have a bit of versatility and you want to nerf them, chill out. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
113
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:RydogV wrote:This is probably the most ridiculous thread I have every read over the past 11 months. Clearly you do not understand the true limitations of the Logistics dropsuit.
I get one weapons slot and you want to give me Sidearm, Swarm Launcher, Laser Rifle or Plasma Gun?!?!?! Gimmie a !@#$ing break.
Every fitting has a weakness. Your job is to find it, exploit it and then kill the guy/gal using it. If you can't, then run the other direction.
Here ended the lesson. So your weakness is not having a pistol >..>
No my weakness is not, not having a pistol. There are inherent weaknesses in all dropsuit configurations. The lack of a sidearm is just one when it comes to most Logistics dropsuits.
My reaction to the suggested weapons a Logistics player should be limited to is based on that one element. In my view, when I only have the ability to carry a single weapon, that weapon should have optimal versatility in the greatest number of possible situations. None of the weapons listed meet that criteria. They are all specially weapons, effective for limited and specialized tasks.
Bottom-line...I risk my ISK wading out into the fray to revive and heal down teammates every match. Why should my offensive capability be restricted any more than it already is because other players decide to use a suit for some other purpose other than support. This game was suppose to be about unique player choice. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
539
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:14:00 -
[35] - Quote
RydogV wrote:No my weakness is not, not having a pistol. There are inherent weaknesses in all dropsuit configurations. The lack of a sidearm is just one when it comes to most Logistics dropsuits.
My reaction to the suggested weapons a Logistics player should be limited to is based on that one element. In my view, when I only have the ability to carry a single weapon, that weapon should have optimal versatility in the greatest number of possible situations. None of the weapons listed meet that criteria. They are all specially weapons, effective for limited and specialized tasks.
Bottom-line...I risk my ISK wading out into the fray to revive and heal down teammates every match. Why should my offensive capability be restricted any more than it already is because other players decide to use a suit for some other purpose other than support. This game was suppose to be about unique player choice. QFT
And if you want a weakness, look at how much SP we have to invest just to be able to do our ****ing job! Assaults can get by with their basic suits (which are the suits in chromosome) but I had to dump 1.8 mil just to have multiple equipment slots to do my medical stuff. Then there's the SP that goes into repair tools, nano hives, needles (that don't ****ing work right now) drop uplinks, remote explosives, and proximity mines. By the time I had all that stuff, I barely had enough for my one weapon I'm allowed to equip. My fittings probably cost almost twice your fittings too. Come nerf me bro! |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2784
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
ISuperstar wrote:Nerf the Logi's? The most critical role on the battlefield!? Are you Nucking Futz!? When it's viable to have them as the ONLY role on the battlefield and still expect to win, I'd say a nerf is a fair call. |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
First of all im not ASKING for a nerf on logis, learn to read. Im asking for limitations on the weapons they use.
Logis need all those slots and CPU / PG for SUPPORT, not Assault purposes.
Support Dropsuit for Support Roles.
And not all logis are slow, again Minmatar moves at assault speed with a minuscule HP decrease, but higher Shields regen and a lot more PG/CPU and slots. From 5-2 to 4-4 (Protos) |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:RydogV wrote:No my weakness is not, not having a pistol. There are inherent weaknesses in all dropsuit configurations. The lack of a sidearm is just one when it comes to most Logistics dropsuits.
My reaction to the suggested weapons a Logistics player should be limited to is based on that one element. In my view, when I only have the ability to carry a single weapon, that weapon should have optimal versatility in the greatest number of possible situations. None of the weapons listed meet that criteria. They are all specially weapons, effective for limited and specialized tasks.
Bottom-line...I risk my ISK wading out into the fray to revive and heal down teammates every match. Why should my offensive capability be restricted any more than it already is because other players decide to use a suit for some other purpose other than support. This game was suppose to be about unique player choice. QFT And if you want a weakness, look at how much SP we have to invest just to be able to do our ****ing job! Assaults can get by with their basic suits (which are the suits in chromosome) but I had to dump 1.8 mil just to have multiple equipment slots to do my medical stuff. Then there's the SP that goes into repair tools, nano hives, needles (that don't ****ing work right now) drop uplinks, remote explosives, and proximity mines. By the time I had all that stuff, I barely had enough for my one weapon I'm allowed to equip. My fittings probably cost almost twice your fittings too. Come nerf me bro!
Again im not talking about the support part, u use medical stuff good for you.
I mean the people who just carry 1 nanohive and the rest is pure assault load out....Shitload of Shield extenders armor repairers,armor plate,damage mods etcetc... |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Im asking for limitations on the weapons they use.
Biggest nerf ever, I'd rather lose 3 slots than not be allowed to use an AR. |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Im asking for limitations on the weapons they use.
Biggest nerf ever, I'd rather lose 3 slots than not be allowed to use an AR. EXACTLY.
Wanna use AR some other Dropsuit. Logis are for Support, not Assault purposes. |
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Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
547
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
I was discussing this earlier. I play logi now because I legitimately like the prospect. I like being more support, but I can also play a somewhat less-effective assault.
But that's because I'm minmatar. honestly, the only glaring problem is the caldari logi suit. the fact that most people are using that one suit is testament to that. They shouldn't have given it 5 highs AND the shield bonus. furthermore, I'd be fine if logi's got a damage penalty for each level of logi we get. So level 5 logi = 5 armor rep, and -10 weapon damage. Maybe not, but somehow gimping the logi's assault capability might deter people drom using it as assault 2.0. unfortunately it seems like the downhill slope has already started. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
539
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I don't care if you talking about Burn Jita, you mothe ****ers cried about heavies, MD, HAV, Dropships, grenades, scouts, LAVs, lasers, and just about anything else that makes you feel threatened until it got nerfed into the ground. Now you want to QQ about field medics having a bit more HP and versatility than you? I can tell you where to shove your suggestions. I'm done!
You're lucky I already spent my SP into my super OP class because if I had seen your post before I did, I'd probably spec into HAV just to roll over you ASSaults. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2788
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
How's this for a solution?
Logis have to fill all Equipment slots. |
Jotun Hiem
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
615
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Why would you want to nerf Logistics?
The entire point is that they have a ton of slot and equipment options.
They also don't function well as a slayer type class when compared to Assault or Scout because of the lack of a sidearm, which is a very big deal. They're also the second slowest class in the game. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
114
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:42:00 -
[45] - Quote
Why would anyone waste the SP to skill into Caldari Logistics Dropsuits to run some sort of assault build? I mean you could just spec into Basic suits and accomplish nearly the same thing. And save yourself a few million skill points. The friggin' Minmatar Basic Proto has a better and more balanced shield/armor stats, better speed/mobility, a second weapon slot, 5 high slots, 2 lows and an equipment. This argument is just ludicrous. |
Twelve Guage
The Generals EoN.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:42:00 -
[46] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How's this for a solution?
Logis have to fill all Equipment slots.
As a Logi-gal, I wouldn't mind something like this to combat with the hating AR's users who dislike not getting insta kills on us logis |
Osydisious
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
Garrett that isn't a solution because any logi worth their dust fills their equipment slots anyway. The point of a logi is to support your squad by helping them continue with the momentum on the battlefield they gather. This is where people get confused because they think that keeping momentum is about being alive, when in actual fact it means that there isn't anything in your way. The logi performs this by using its versatility, you take that away by limiting the weapon usage and you instantly destroy the sole purpose of the logi. Sometimes you need to fall back, heal your guys, pick them up, resupply them to keep them in the fight. Sometimes you gotta get our your wep and keep the bullets flying ( The fundamental behind the heavy ). |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
547
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Why would anyone waste the SP to skill into Caldari Logistics Dropsuits to run some sort of assault build? I mean you could just spec into Basic suits and accomplish nearly the same thing. And save yourself a few million skill points. The friggin' Minmatar Basic Proto has a better and more balanced shield/armor stats, better speed/mobility, a second weapon slot, 5 high slots, 2 lows and an equipment. This argument is just ludicrous.
It's perplexing how people can jump into a convo without knowing what they are talking about.
the issue at hand (which was explained earlier in this thread.. in the OP actually) is that the Caldari logistics suit gets a 5% bonus to shield extender efficacy per level. that means that at level 5, every 4 shield extenders pretty much adds up to an extra one. Not just that, but the suit has 5 highs, 4 lows, and 3 equipment slots. It also is moderately fast (which can be improved with it's 4 low slots), and it has already high EHP out of the box.
It is currently the most OP suit in the game. This is possibly subject to change when the scrambler rifles come out. Hopefully they do like 150% damage to shields, and 50% to armor or something crazy dramatic like that. Currently the only way to upset the massive amounts of over-tanked caldari suits is to use flux grenades. |
Spectral Clone
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
17
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
Not every logistics is supposed to stick behind a heavy suit with a rep tool. That is just my oppinion.
There are now several types of logistics fittings, not just armor-repair guys. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
547
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:52:00 -
[50] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Not every logistics is supposed to stick behind a heavy suit with a rep tool. That is just my oppinion.
There are now several types of logistics fittings, not just armor-repair guys.
"assault logi" should never be an option. If it is, what the hell is the purpose of an assault suit then? to do what a logi does, only worse? |
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KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:52:00 -
[51] - Quote
Just saying, this is the FPS game where supports act less support than anything.
Yeah a good logi will fill his equipment slots and help the team. Thats not the case thanks to the fact they have acess to the same weapons as any other class. Modding a Logi suit into Assault V.2.0 is not hard.
Besides the fact that you could in good theory equip 5 complex shield extenders, the Cal Logi posesses a unique trair that at level 5 gains +25% shiel d extender boost. Thats an approx of 88. You could go 3 complex shield ext, 2 complex damage mods and what assault dropsuit gets better than that, and im not even getting into [ -- ] |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2790
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Osydisious wrote:Garrett that isn't a solution because any logi worth their dust fills their equipment slots anyway. The point of a logi is to support your squad by helping them continue with the momentum on the battlefield they gather. This is where people get confused because they think that keeping momentum is about being alive, when in actual fact it means that there isn't anything in your way. The logi performs this by using its versatility, you take that away by limiting the weapon usage and you instantly destroy the sole purpose of the logi. Sometimes you need to fall back, heal your guys, pick them up, resupply them to keep them in the fight. Sometimes you gotta get our your wep and keep the bullets flying ( The fundamental behind the heavy ). The problem is, Logis are too good at being fitted as Assaults, using their extra PG and CPU to fit better modules INSTEAD OF EQUIPMENT.
If they can't do that, because they have to fit equipment FIRST, then they're more likely to actually run Logi suits as Logi suits, and less likely to run as almost-Heavy HP with almost-Assault speed and damage-mod-stacked weapons. |
KING CHECKMATE
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
The mere fact of so many people complaining about me suggesting taking away some Assault weapon options proves my point.......... |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
114
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:RydogV wrote:Why would anyone waste the SP to skill into Caldari Logistics Dropsuits to run some sort of assault build? I mean you could just spec into Basic suits and accomplish nearly the same thing. And save yourself a few million skill points. The friggin' Minmatar Basic Proto has a better and more balanced shield/armor stats, better speed/mobility, a second weapon slot, 5 high slots, 2 lows and an equipment. This argument is just ludicrous. It's perplexing how people can jump into a convo without knowing what they are talking about. the issue at hand (which was explained earlier in this thread.. in the OP actually) is that the Caldari logistics suit gets a 5% bonus to shield extender efficacy per level. that means that at level 5, every 4 shield extenders pretty much adds up to an extra one. Not just that, but the suit has 5 highs, 4 lows, and 3 equipment slots. It also is moderately fast (which can be improved with it's 4 low slots), and it has already high EHP out of the box. It is currently the most OP suit in the game. This is possibly subject to change when the scrambler rifles come out. Hopefully they do like 150% damage to shields, and 50% to armor or something crazy dramatic like that. Currently the only way to upset the massive amounts of over-tanked caldari suits is to use flux grenades.
I read the OP and as a Logistics player, I researched the Caldari Logistics Dropsuit very thoroughly. I am fully aware of its stats and capability. And when it was all said and done, I opted to skill elsewhere. So where you see OP, I see weakness. Let's just agree to disagree and maybe reign back the presumptuous derogatory remarks.
My ultimate objection to this entire posting is that limiting player choice to do what they want, with what is available in the game is a faulty path on which to travel. Instead I challenge players to find a way to effectively improvise, adapt and overcome. |
Osydisious
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 06:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Osydisious wrote:Garrett that isn't a solution because any logi worth their dust fills their equipment slots anyway. The point of a logi is to support your squad by helping them continue with the momentum on the battlefield they gather. This is where people get confused because they think that keeping momentum is about being alive, when in actual fact it means that there isn't anything in your way. The logi performs this by using its versatility, you take that away by limiting the weapon usage and you instantly destroy the sole purpose of the logi. Sometimes you need to fall back, heal your guys, pick them up, resupply them to keep them in the fight. Sometimes you gotta get our your wep and keep the bullets flying ( The fundamental behind the heavy ). The problem is, Logis are too good at being fitted as Assaults, using their extra PG and CPU to fit better modules INSTEAD OF EQUIPMENT. If they can't do that, because they have to fit equipment FIRST, then they're more likely to actually run Logi suits as Logi suits, and less likely to run as almost-Heavy HP with almost-Assault speed and damage-mod-stacked weapons.
Ah I see you now, sorry came off backwards :P
I agree this would solve that issue however the only suit that brings assault players into logi is the caldari suit as it provides extra survivability and is one of the few suits that actually has a decent bonus to spec into for the role the suit was designed for (shield tanking). I see it more of a problem that the racial assault suits don't really provide anything above their basic types that people don't see the point into speccing into it at all.
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
56
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Posted - 2013.05.08 06:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
Finding it kind of funny that last build we were noting the problem with stacked Complex Damage mods and ARs. Now it's stacked Complex Shield Extenders and Caldari Logis.
Did not see that coming. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
541
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:The mere fact of so many people complaining about me suggesting taking away some Assault weapon options proves my point.......... Like how all the assaults went ape **** over the sharpshooter nerf? We all have our niche classes that we're happy and comfortable with. Nobody wants to be nerfed. |
Osydisious
ZionTCD Unclaimed.
51
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:The mere fact of so many people complaining about me suggesting taking away some Assault weapon options proves my point..........
Actually we are complaining at your idea because it takes away one of the key reasons people play logistics for and that is the versatility. Some of us don't like being sat behind a heavy with a rep tool (specially as it doesn't give you points the whole time, so might as well do some killing while the WP cooldown ends). I run squads with mainly assault guys and some heavies and so I need to be able to perform to some extent with them. To be able to survive and provide the support needed by a logistics player ( offensively and defensively) I sacrifice my speed, the extra weapon slot and now sticking out on the battlefield in my new bright yellow costume. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
96
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
It costs people that went proto Caldari Logistics 5 million SP. You think the suit is too strong, but it represents a gigantic SP investment. Even stacking all 5 upper slots on a proto with complex extenders wouldn't save your shields from a single level 1 flux grenade.
The Amarr Logi has great armor repping passives. The minny is fast, and gets a hacking bonus. The Gallente.... uh... looks nice.
Logistics players have a gigantic SP sink just to get the suit (5m). The equipment skills all sit at 3x. All that before you've touched weapons.
Perhaps what actually needs tuning here is the special assault suits (which are mostly identical to medium frame suits), or the special scout suits (which are mostly identical to light frames), or the sentinel suits (which seem worse than the basic heavy frames).
Logis don't need to be nerfed because people can't figure out how shields work. The logi PG/CPU difference is to fit all the equipment and slots. Have you seen what happened to low level equipment? It's nerfed to crazy town. Useful hives and links have all been pushed to the high end. Even with better PG/CPU, logis will have problems fitting.
Maybe post some feedback about altering the specialization suits (outside logis) so they're not the same as basic frames rather than nerfing the role that got some differentiation (at the cost of any low-tier suits with multiple slots). |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
115
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Posted - 2013.05.08 07:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:The mere fact of so many people complaining about me suggesting taking away some Assault weapon options proves my point..........
It does no such thing. My issue with your suggestion lies in your desire to significantly limit my capability to defend myself and my team in battle. I have played with every light weapon and sidearm currently available in the game. My decision to use an Assault Rifle stems from its capability at both short and medium range, its effectiveness against both shields and armor and its relatively modest CPU/PG requirements.
A Logistics player needs that kind of versatility or they generally find themselves dead a majority of the time. And when I am dead I cannot do my primary job of keeping everyone else on my team alive. I am forced to operate in the thick of the fight and I am responsible for clearing out potential threats before moving in on a downed teammate. The AR lets me do my job. So why don't you quit worrying about what weapon I am carrying, let me do my job and you go find some other way to deal with your Logi/Assault/Shield Tanking Super Mercs.
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