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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
[skip to SOLUTION section if you're familiar with the topic]
ISSUE: Merc Pack was advertised with the language "Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release." Understandably many buyers expected their AUR items to be refunded at release. Now that release is imminent, CCP has deemed it necessary to make certain amends to the rules in a recent Dev Blog entry.
These changes are either expected and fair, or blatant breach of contract and spitting on your most fervent supporters, depending on which side of the fence you are on. But that is off this topic; there are other threads for those discussions, some of which even remain unlocked as I write this.
There are currently two options offered by CCP:
- "an optional full character reset with Mercenary Pack or Aurum reimbursement." - this is ostensibly offered to fulfill the advertised pack rules. While it arguably does meet the "credited in full... ...for the commercial release" -language, it is inarguably against the spirit of such an agreement.
- no refund of AUR items you have already spent - this is against the pack offer, and is a stopgap measure CCP has put in place.
#1 means you lose all the progress you've made in the months of beta. As you can see, #2 is the only real option unless you plan on stopping playing Dust.
Since we essentially have only one option, we end up with no refund, #2. But I bet most of the buyers were not expecting refunds on boosters, as they will carry the benefit from using them in the form of higher SP.
The issue is with AUR items, such as dropsuits and weapons that were consumed during beta. CCP's most hardcore customers spent money to test their game for them, some with the expectation of a full refund at launch as a direct result of very clear language in the Pack description. CCP, you don't want to lose those customers, or to bear the loss of goodwill and resulting word of mouth.
But there is an workable compromise, an option much better than option #1.
SOLUTION: refund all Merc Packs, except for used boosters and UVTs.
This is the sensible thing to do: it will keep your most dedicated fans happy, yet will not give them millions of bonus SP for free in the form of refunded boosters.
And it will be a better business decision than this shortsighted, poorly designed and quite frankly insulting option of full refund with character reset you so graciously offer as a compromise in the dev blog. Hopefully the damage hasn't been already done - but given the numerous PR follies you've made in the past months I think your players will give you some slack.
For the record, I have two Merc Packs, and I bought a UVT, all the cheap BPOs and a few vanity suits before their prices were jacked up (wonder what happens to them on Monday?), and a booster or two. I did these purchases with the anticipation that I would not get refunded. |
arimal lavaren
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
208
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ridonculous |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
149
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing.
Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing.
I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. The offer I propose is a compromise which I believe we can all live with. |
0 Try Harder
Faabulous
314
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
**** no! I like the way they did it. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:[skip to SOLUTION section if you're familiar with the topic] ISSUE: Merc Pack was advertised with the language "Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release." Understandably many buyers expected their AUR items to be refunded at release. Now that release is imminent, CCP has deemed it necessary to make certain amends to the rules in a recent Dev Blog entry. These changes are either expected and fair, or blatant breach of contract and spitting on your most fervent supporters, depending on which side of the fence you are on. But that is off this topic; there are other threads for those discussions, some of which even remain unlocked as I write this. There are currently two options offered by CCP:
- "an optional full character reset with Mercenary Pack or Aurum reimbursement." - this is ostensibly offered to fulfill the advertised pack rules. While it arguably does meet the "credited in full... ...for the commercial release" -language, it is inarguably against the spirit of such an agreement.
- no refund of AUR items you have already spent - this is against the pack offer, and is a stopgap measure CCP has put in place.
#1 means you lose all the progress you've made in the months of beta. As you can see, #2 is the only real option unless you plan on stopping playing Dust. Since we essentially have only one option, we end up with no refund, #2. But I bet most of the buyers were not expecting refunds on boosters, as they will carry the benefit from using them in the form of higher SP. The issue is with AUR items, such as dropsuits and weapons that were consumed during beta. CCP's most hardcore customers spent money to test their game for them, some with the expectation of a full refund at launch as a direct result of very clear language in the Pack description. CCP, you don't want to lose those customers, or to bear the loss of goodwill and resulting word of mouth. But there is an workable compromise, an option much better than option #1. SOLUTION: refund all Merc Packs, except for used boosters and UVTs.This is the sensible thing to do: it will keep your most dedicated fans happy, yet will not give them millions of bonus SP for free in the form of refunded boosters. And it will be a better business decision than this shortsighted, poorly designed and quite frankly insulting option of full refund with character reset you so graciously offer as a compromise in the dev blog. Hopefully the damage hasn't been already done - but given the numerous PR follies you've made in the past months I think your players will give you some slack. For the record, I have two Merc Packs, and I bought a UVT, all the cheap BPOs and a few vanity suits before their prices were jacked up (wonder what happens to them on Monday?), and a booster or two. I did these purchases with the anticipation that I would not get refunded. its over you lost and CCP won. |
Smooth Head
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again?
This is a compromise, and not the only option. You can still seek refund via your retailer or Sony, or via chargeback.
Let's try to keep this civil and constructive so it doesn't get locked like numerous other threads. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
497
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
This sounds to me like some people are crying they don't get free boosters/SP.
truth is, CCP doesn't want people getting free skill points. if you used it, it's gone. Either that or, you can choose to get it back, but you lose all the SP you earned with it, and then some.
It's fair, if you don't like it, don't reset, and just take your licks like EVERY. ONE. ELSE. It is seriously an issue of wanting your cake, and to eat it too. Well, sorry kids, sometimes this world doesn't work that way. I think CCP has been MORE THAN lenient with the free items and "beta bonuses". You ever hear the term "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? Yeah, that means this. Don't do this thing you are doing.
Thousands of other people bought merc packs too. The hand full of people crying about it here on the forums are such a vast minority. you might think everyone is upset, they just don't post. well, i'm sure thats partly true, but I have a feeling if more people were half as "outraged" as some of the posters here on the forums, they would seek out these forums and make themselves heard.
I honestly think people just don't really care. Everyone got their moneys worth, and got what they paid for. And if you want to be reimbursed, CCP is offering that to you. Sure there's a caveat, but it's a fair caveat that doesn't just hand out free skill boosters.
It's like you going to the bank, emptying out your savings, then asking for a free refill.
CCP did make the promise in the past to give you your AUR back, and they are living up to it. But they are making sure you pay it forward before you get your money back. It's a free re-purchase, not a free refill. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? because they like the game |
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Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
134
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have come back around to being perfectly okay with the way it is. If you like the game put it down as contributing to the game. If you hung around hoping for an AUR refund and can't get over it then I guess you'll just have to go. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
434
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:This sounds to me like some people are crying they don't get free boosters/SP.
truth is, CCP doesn't want people getting free skill points. if you used it, it's gone. Either that or, you can choose to get it back, but you lose all the SP you earned with it, and then some.
And this is exactly why I'm proposing this compromise, which would not give free SP.
Quote: It's fair, if you don't like it, don't reset, and just take your licks like EVERY. ONE. ELSE. It is seriously an issue of wanting your cake, and to eat it too. Well, sorry kids, sometimes this world doesn't work that way. I think CCP has been MORE THAN lenient with the free items and "beta bonuses". You ever hear the term "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? Yeah, that means this. Don't do this thing you are doing.
There's no gift horse: Merc Packs cost money.
Quote:It's like you going to the bank, emptying out your savings, then asking for a free refill.
Not even close.
It's like going to McDonald's, seeing "free refills" advertised when you buy a Coke, and when you go get your refill, they say "oh, we didn't really mean 'free refills' although we did say so, but you are free to deposit the Coke you drank into this bucket and we'll give you your money back." |
Protoman Is God
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
133
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Just contact sony/gamestop CCP lost |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
37
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
"CCP doesn't want people to get free SP"
Lulz, anyone AFK much?
I just think its funny that CCP screws up the sp system and its "we will fix it eventually until then feel free to break the game even more" and everyones "cool why not, lets show these @$$clowns they messed up" but the merc pack fiascoe becomes "nuh uh, its game breaking and an unfair advantage..." |
DTOracle
Universal Allies Inc.
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
1) that would not be a full refund 2) the items being refunded, were used to acquire your SP. Giving an even bigger advantage to beta testers.
If you want your AUR & items back, then give the SP you earned with them back as well. No one is getting both, & anyone who expected to keep there SP & get their AUR reset, is delusional at best. CCP is honoring both there agreements with merc pack buyers & closed beta testers. They gave you the option now choose. |
Jotun Hiem
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
581
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? Except they haven't.
The contract states that the content of the merc pack will be credited to your account on full release.
If you have all the things you bought in the merc back, then it's been credited to your account. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2677
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
So, basically, the suggestion I've been trying to push for all along?
+1 to OP because he's agreeing with what I've kept saying every single time this discussion came up.
Also, just to clarify some points for you guys, here's the FULL text on the Merc Pack description as agreed at the time I purchased mine:
Quote:*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Now lets focus on why I think the current "solution" is really strongly against what was agreed to.
Quote:No other form of refund is permitted. That was obviously put there to avoid customers trying to change the deal, but CCP are overlooking the fact that it ALSO PREVENTS THEM FROM CHANGING THE DEAL. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again?
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: entitled
Found your problem. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1411
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gemini Reynolds wrote:Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: entitled Found your problem.
Only a problem if you are wrong. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. |
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Smooth Head
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. And CCP never get another cent.
Just bad word of mouth to every gamer they know and social media site they visit. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. And CCP never get another cent. Just bad word of mouth to every gamer they know and social media site they visit.
And those who support CCP will counter in kind. There is no point in this debate. The decision is final. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
FYI:
For those of you who are planning to do a credit card charge back against CCP, please keep in mind that banks have certain restrictions that can limit your charge back requests. Best case scenario, they might go ahead and process your request. Worst case scenario, your own bank might accuse you of fraud. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
214
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff.
Nah, ill just get Gamestop to issue me additional merc packs, since CCP didnt live up to the language. Then ill contact Sony for the ones i bought prior to the change in language. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. Nah, ill just get Gamestop to issue me additional merc packs, since CCP didnt live up to the language. Then ill contact Sony for the ones i bought prior to the change in language.
When release date comes and goes, let me know how it turns out. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2677
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. What's been decided by CCP has been "finalised" but also leaves them wide open to perfectly-valid complaints of not honouring the terms agreed to in the Merc Pack.
Which means the discussion is still open until it actually happens. And even then, the way is open for further complaints. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing. Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing. I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. The offer I propose is a compromise which I believe we can all live with.
if you had an idea, you should have brought it up a month ago when ccp was asking what a good solution was. the OP sounds like QQing to me, but then every aurum warrior sounds like a qqer... |
First Prophet
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing. Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing. I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. I do. Been wanting it since closed beta. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. What's been decided by CCP has been "finalised" but also leaves them wide open to perfectly-valid complaints of not honouring the terms agreed to in the Merc Pack. Which means the discussion is still open until it actually happens. And even then, the way is open for further complaints.
Quote:Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.
But this isn't a different "form of refund", the merc pack will be credited in full for release, just like the original agreement says. They have followed that agreement to the letter, nowhere does it say they can't reset characters. |
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2678
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. What's been decided by CCP has been "finalised" but also leaves them wide open to perfectly-valid complaints of not honouring the terms agreed to in the Merc Pack. Which means the discussion is still open until it actually happens. And even then, the way is open for further complaints. Quote:Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.
But this isn't a different "form of refund", the merc pack will be credited in full for release, just like the original agreement says. They have followed that agreement to the letter, nowhere does it say they can't reset characters. It's a conditional credit of Merc Pack contents requiring a reset other players aren't subject to. That isn't the same as the refund agreed to. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 04:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: It's a conditional credit of Merc Pack contents requiring a reset other players aren't subject to. That isn't the same as the refund agreed to.
Except getting a reset isn't a condition for being refunded, getting refunded is the condition for getting a reset. Who would want a reset? I have no idea, but that's the way they worded it.
I suppose you could still say that it's a conditional refunded because they're letting you choose between "yes" and "no", and you only get it if you pick "yes"
Then again, I know nothing about law, so i'll shut up now |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2682
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 04:32:00 -
[33] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: It's a conditional credit of Merc Pack contents requiring a reset other players aren't subject to. That isn't the same as the refund agreed to.
Except getting a reset isn't a condition for being refunded, getting refunded is the condition for getting a reset. Who would want a reset? I have no idea, but that's the way they worded it. I suppose you could still say that it's a conditional refunded because they're letting you choose between "yes" and "no", and you only get it if you pick "yes" Then again, I know nothing about law, so i'll shut up now You want a refund? On the condition that you let us reset you. The reset is a condition for the refund, not the other way around. And regardless of the fact that you're wrong, that's an argument over semantics and doesn't directly relate to the issue at hand anyway.
What DOES matter is that CCP are telling us we have to accept a character reset to get something they agreed to give us without including a reset as part of the deal. And the Merc Pack terms specifically stated that changing the deal isn't an option, which means it's not an option for THEM any more than it is for ME. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 04:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
One thing though, I'm pretty sure "No other form of refund is permitted" simply means that they can't give you real life money, or just send you a PSN card or something, it must be done with in-game currency.
Not that they can't offer you other deals, regardless of how bad those deals might be. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2682
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 04:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote: One thing though, I'm pretty sure "No other form of refund is permitted" simply means that they can't give you real life money, or just send you a PSN card or something, it must be done with in-game currency.
Not that they can't offer you other deals, regardless of how bad those deals might be.
If they were giving us this option AS WELL AS the option they already agreed to give us, then there wouldn't be an argument, would there?
They're saying, "instead of the refund we agreed to give you with the restriction that no other refunds are permitted, we're going to offer you something far less worthwhile to you and still keep your money." |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: we're going to offer you something far less worthwhile to you They're offering to let you keep your stats in exchange for not getting a refund.
Is that something that's worthwhile to you? I don't know, but your opinion on it doesn't matter either way. CCP gets to decide the "value" of your time in game, not you.
Quote:You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, e.g., by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including without limitation all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP
So if they decide that the value of the merc pack is of equal to worth to everything on the character you use, then they can make such a deal, because they're changing the merc pack for something "of equal value" i.e. the time you've played and anything you gained from it.
"But CCP isn't resetting other people", this is true, but CCP doesn't actually need a justifiable reason to adjust anybodies stats/SP/assets, they simply can, because none of us have any "interest" in the value of our time. Everything on the characters we use belongs to them, and they can do whatever they want to any of our characters.
This isn't exactly a good way to build PR or trust, but I'm pretty sure that they haven't broken any laws or agreements. Then again, I'm no lawyer |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
I think you are missing the point. Most ppl are not upset that they lost money. Most ppl are upset because they were lied to and betrayed. But I do like your post and an honest effort to reach a compromise and be fair to all sides. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
I cant wait to see CCP backpedaling and explaining how the dude who made the dev post was not authorized to make it. The ball is in your court CCP. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
173
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Also, I'd like to see this sort of stunt being pulled off on the US soil. Discounting banking bail out that is. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2685
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:25:00 -
[40] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: we're going to offer you something far less worthwhile to you They're offering to let you keep your stats in exchange for not getting a refund. Is that something that's worthwhile to you? I don't know, but your opinion on it doesn't matter either way. CCP gets to decide the "value" of your time in game, not you. So you're saying that there's a reset for everyone except Merc Pack customers? Because that's what this would imply.
No. No they aren't.
People who DIDN'T buy the Merc Pack keep their SP. People who did buy it, with the agreed condition that CCP would credit back the contents of the pack on release, are now being told that we DON'T get that unless we ALSO agree to have our progress - AND ONLY OUR PROGRESS - wiped completely after being promised that wouldn't happen.
Quote:Quote:You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, e.g., by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including without limitation all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP So if they decide that the value of the merc pack is of equal to worth to everything on the character you use, then they can make such a deal, because they're changing the merc pack for something "of equal value" i.e. the time you've played and anything you gained from it. Again, they can do this, IF they reset everybody else with it.
Quote:"But CCP isn't resetting other people", this is true, but CCP doesn't actually need a justifiable reason to adjust anybodies stats/SP/assets, they simply can, because none of us have any "interest" in the value of our time. Everything on the characters we use belongs to them, and they can do whatever they want to any of our characters. This isn't exactly a good way to build PR or trust, but I'm pretty sure that they haven't broken any laws or agreements. Then again, I'm no lawyer No, you're right, CCP doesn't need to have a reason to reset us if they decide they want to. But they've tied this reset to the Merc Pack refund, which means they're not offering the refund we were promised, and are instead offering a different, more restrictive refund in spite of that not being valid according to the terms to which both parties agreed.
While it's much less ethical, it would be closer to a legitimate aswer if CCP decided to select a group of customers to wipe the progress of as an experiment, and it "just happened" to include all the early Merc Pack customers and nobody else, then give us all back our Merc Packs and say, "there's your refund". But they've specifically stated that this reset is part of the refund process, which violates the terms they set out for us. |
|
Jin Robot
Polar Gooks
390
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:30:00 -
[41] - Quote
If I were CCP, I would release a statement saying, "everyone we have decided to give full refunds of Merc pack on release...and all characters will have a full reset, you now have no choice, so there ya babies" |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
502
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
The best part is, if any of these kids actually tried to take CCP to court over this (loooool), I hope CCP uses the exact currency in question included in their payment to the best possible lawyer then can find, and counter sue for slander.
I would laugh... so... hard. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
109
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:45:00 -
[43] - Quote
Wah wah wah...I wanna go home...I want my milk and cookies...I want my mama...I'm not motivated...I'm not dedicated...
This is what you really sound like. Seriously.
Sincerely,
Proud Owner of 4 Merc Packs (Who Doesn't Feel He Got Cheated...In Any Way, Shape or Form) "Have a Nice Day " |
Drud Green
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Wah wah wah...I wanna go home...I want my milk and cookies...I want my mama...I'm not motivated...I'm not dedicated... This is what you really sound like. Seriously. Sincerely, Proud Owner of 4 Merc Packs (Who Doesn't Feel He Got Cheated...In Any Way, Shape or Form) "Have a Nice Day "
So you like getting bent over and ****** in the ass? Interesting. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Drud Green wrote:RydogV wrote:Wah wah wah...I wanna go home...I want my milk and cookies...I want my mama...I'm not motivated...I'm not dedicated... This is what you really sound like. Seriously. Sincerely, Proud Owner of 4 Merc Packs (Who Doesn't Feel He Got Cheated...In Any Way, Shape or Form) "Have a Nice Day " So you like getting bent over and ****** in the ass? Interesting. Does that mean you like it rough? cause you're getting it in the ass too |
0 Try Harder
Faabulous
315
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
imo the way they did it is fine. CCP said they'd reset AUR/Merc Packs, and now they are. There was nothing about having a reset or not when the game went full release.
If that's hard to understand, perhaps an example might help.
> CCP intended to reset SP, ISK and items for everyone, along with merc packs/aur on full release > CCP decided the players did not want their characters reset again > CCP gave the players an option not to have a reset, and put that as the default > CCP is still doing the reset for those who want it
I'm not defending CCP, I just love your tears. Get pwnd. I am probably going to reset an alt, but I find this QQ amusing. |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax. CRONOS.
380
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
7 Mercs packs, never assumed I was getting anything back without a reset, do not want a reset for a refund, but knew it was part of the conditions. any time someone asked about it before now it was always stated that we would get refunded any time they reset our characters. and until decemeber they were planning to reset us before launch, unless I am mistaken. They changed their minds, said no more resets were planned, Thus I figured I wouldn't be getting any more refunds, since that was the logical assumption.
You want a refund, fine, you get reset.
You think CCP cheated you, sorry.
now if you will excuse me, I'm gonna go back to laughing at these threads. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2685
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
0 Try Harder wrote:imo the way they did it is fine. CCP said they'd reset AUR/Merc Packs, and now they are. There was nothing about having a reset or not when the game went full release.
If that's hard to understand, perhaps an example might help.
> CCP intended to reset SP, ISK and items for everyone, along with merc packs/aur on full release > CCP decided the players did not want their characters reset again > CCP gave the players an option not to have a reset, and put that as the default > CCP is still doing the reset for those who want it
I'm not defending CCP, I just love your tears. Get pwnd. I am probably going to reset an alt, but I find this QQ amusing. Explain the "and" in the line "every reset and for the commercial release" then?
Because if they always intended to reset us on release, it should have read "including the commercial release", or better yet, they should have just ended with the word "reset" and avoided the whole mess they've thrown themselves into here. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
110
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Drud Green wrote:RydogV wrote:Wah wah wah...I wanna go home...I want my milk and cookies...I want my mama...I'm not motivated...I'm not dedicated... This is what you really sound like. Seriously. Sincerely, Proud Owner of 4 Merc Packs (Who Doesn't Feel He Got Cheated...In Any Way, Shape or Form) "Have a Nice Day " So you like getting bent over and ****** in the ass? Interesting. Does that mean you like it rough? cause you're getting it in the ass too
Not me smart guy. Some of us recognized Open Beta was the end of the line and did it smart. All Aurum spent on Boosters, Blueprints and UVT's. Getting reimbursed for Blueprints and unused UVT's. All Boosters were magically transformed into Skill Points as were the use of all perishables. 'Dragonfly's' and 'Toxins' stacked, racked and ready to sell when the open market kicks in someday. Nope feeling pretty good. And tight...very tight. Thank you. |
DAMIOS82
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
In my opinion its right what ccp is offering. I personally spend over 600 euro worth on Aur, it could even be more. And i don't see any problem with what they are offering. When we whent from closed to open, they stated; be wise what you spend you aur on, for its the last reset and most of us did. Whatever i bought in suits, etc i used to get my +- 9 mill sp in the short time i could play. Now the so called commercial release is upon us (in my oppinion still an alpha) And they give you a choice, I can either keep my sp and get refunded whatever i have left over ( afterall i used the rest the get my sp) or i can choose a full reset and get everything back, but loose the sp, etc. (which would be is logicall, since if i did not used any of it, i would more then likely have maybe a tenth of that sp) what is not fair about that.
Now with the merc pack it stated it would be refunded, it never stated that you would get to keep your sp. So ccp is doing exactly what they said they would, if you want it back sure no problem, but you loose it all and if you choose to keep it, that's also fine but then you just get refunded from what you still have left. Well i choose option 2, we from closed beta allready lost alott of sp because of an earlier reset, because they wanted to make things fair for newbies. Which in my oppinion was allready alott of horse dung, since beeing able to play beta means beeing able to get an advantage. so i would rather keep my sp and get back what i have left, then start over from scratch again and waist another 6 months (plus waisting half a year from closed beta). So that's a full year of nothing, just to start from scratch. I'll pass |
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2686
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
low genius wrote:if you had an idea, you should have brought it up a month ago when ccp was asking what a good solution was. the OP sounds like QQing to me, but then every aurum warrior sounds like a qqer... I think it's worth mentioning that the proposed solution in this thread ISN'T a new idea, and is one that's been suggested multiple times by multiple Merc Pack buyers, myself included, going almost all the way back to when CCP first announced "no more resets". So this WAS an option we'd put on the table as an acceptable solution, whereas the "solution" CCP are going with was almost entirely based on people whining that it's "unfair" to let customers who picked the game up early any more of a headstart than we already got when all our progress was still getting repeatedly reset. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
648
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I think it's worth mentioning that the proposed solution in this thread ISN'T a new idea, and is one that's been suggested multiple times by multiple Merc Pack buyers, myself included, going almost all the way back to when CCP first announced "no more resets". So this WAS an option we'd put on the table as an acceptable solution, whereas the "solution" CCP are going with was almost entirely based on people whining that it's "unfair" to let customers who picked the game up early any more of a headstart than we already got when all our progress was still getting repeatedly reset. The actual solution they went with was something I, a closed-beta merc pack buyer, suggested and found support amongst many other merc pack buyers.
Too bad your side lost, we won. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2691
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 07:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:I think it's worth mentioning that the proposed solution in this thread ISN'T a new idea, and is one that's been suggested multiple times by multiple Merc Pack buyers, myself included, going almost all the way back to when CCP first announced "no more resets". So this WAS an option we'd put on the table as an acceptable solution, whereas the "solution" CCP are going with was almost entirely based on people whining that it's "unfair" to let customers who picked the game up early any more of a headstart than we already got when all our progress was still getting repeatedly reset. The actual solution they went with was something I, a closed-beta merc pack buyer, suggested and found support amongst many other merc pack buyers. Too bad your side lost, we won. Source that says it's already happened and nobody arguing for what we were legitimately promised has pressed the issue and forced CCP to change their plans?
Because I'm pretty sure this isn't over until it's ACTUALLY over... |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
165
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 07:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
Oh look, another thread of 'entitled' people QQing. |
Lune Solitaire
Immobile Infantry
10
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 08:09:00 -
[55] - Quote
All CCP has to do is delay the official commercial release indefinitely to get around this. As long as the game stays as a beta for it's lifetime they don't have to honor the refunds everyone is moaning about. A true commercial release would wipe everything clean in the first place as I'm not aware of any games going from beta to release and allowing players to maintain all their previous progress.
I refuse to believe that anyone who bought a Merc Pack thought to themselves upon using it "Man I can't wait to get all my boosters and AUR back when the game hits commercial release AND keep all my hard-earned boosted SP just like the terms and conditions said because I was sure to go over them with a fine-toothed comb!"
Obviously CCP won't wipe everyone clean again because that would cause a lot of the userbase to quit as they feel they've invested too much time to start over again. However, after the last reset they clearly said there would be no more resets barring extreme circumstances so anyone who disregarded that and proceeded to use up all their boosters and AUR in the most inefficient way possible has no right to complain. The whole commercial release argument was on precisely zero people's minds when they started using up their AUR. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2694
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 08:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lune Solitaire wrote:I refuse to believe that anyone who bought a Merc Pack thought to themselves upon using it "Man I can't wait to get all my boosters and AUR back when the game hits commercial release AND keep all my hard-earned boosted SP just like the terms and conditions said because I was sure to go over them with a fine-toothed comb!" It doesn't require a fine-toothed comb to find a single paragraph in a block of text that's little more than an itemised list of contents and that single paragraph I "found". It's pretty hard to miss, actually, and the wording is pretty clear.
"every character reset and for the commercial release" doesn't mean "every character reset including commercial release". It doesn't mean "every character reset and with an optional character reset at commercial release" either. It also doesn't mean "every character reset and maybe at commercial release if we feel like honouring a legally-binding agreement we made with you and took your money for".
Quote:Obviously CCP won't wipe everyone clean again because that would cause a lot of the userbase to quit as they feel they've invested too much time to start over again. However, after the last reset they clearly said there would be no more resets barring extreme circumstances so anyone who disregarded that and proceeded to use up all their boosters and AUR in the most inefficient way possible has no right to complain. The whole commercial release argument was on precisely zero people's minds when they started using up their AUR. You're right. There's definitely nobody who's been bringing this topic up ever since they announced the final reset. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:09:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:I think you are missing the point. Most ppl are not upset that they lost money. Most ppl are upset because they were lied to and betrayed. But I do like your post and an honest effort to reach a compromise and be fair to all sides.
No, I get that. I feel lied to and betrayed as well - and I'm not even losing anything! Companies can't change contract terms unilaterally, without a "meeting of the minds," and this change sets a dangerous precedent which doesn't fare well for future disputes. As a result, I can't trust CCP anymore to give them money.
I alluded to the loss of goodwill and damage that has been already done to CCPs reputation in the OP, much of it which won't be undone by any compromise - including the proposed one - or even a full 180 turn. CCP royally screwed up, one of their worst PR disasters they've had - and there's a lot to choose from. The proposal is put on the table (again; I'm not the only or the first one with this) to do some damage control, as much as it is possible.
I wanted to keep all that out of this thread to avoid it getting locked like so many others on the topic. |
DeeJay One
BetaMax. CRONOS.
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
ladwar wrote: this is nothing the collectors edition really made me mad
It's a freaking EVE (let me repeat EVE as in EVE Online not Dust 514) collectors edition, for $deitys sake... |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
156
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:29:00 -
[59] - Quote
Garrett, the solution CCP put forth IS one we can all live with.
And no, you can't sit around and parse the language and unilaterally decide how it should be interpreted. Your view of the interpretation is clearly in the minority. At the time of writing it was likely assumed commercial release would bring a reset for the purpose of starting with a level playing field.
Just stop QQing you big baby. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2699
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:37:00 -
[60] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Garrett, the solution CCP put forth IS one we can all live with.
And no, you can't sit around and parse the language and unilaterally decide how it should be interpreted. Your view of the interpretation is clearly in the minority. At the time of writing it was likely assumed commercial release would bring a reset for the purpose of starting with a level playing field.
Just stop QQing you big baby. I've already posted this tonight, but what the kitten...
lrn2ingrish.
Quote:*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. This is NOT ambiguous wording. It doesn't imply (in any way) that a character reset is required for the Merc Pack to be refunded on commercial release. The use of the word "and" in the context in which it's used implies the exact opposite - a refund of the Merc Pack's contents WITHOUT a reset.
Whether people chose to take it that way or not, that IS what the description said when I bought my Merc Pack, and it IS what the description said for many other customers buying the same product.
I'm not "parsing" the language, just reposting what was clearly stated and pointing out that it was clearly stated. People trying to argue against these facts have "I assumed it meant (insert inaccurate assumption) instead of what it actually said" to try and hold their arguments up.
I'm sorry to hear that the people who actually know how to read are in the minority, but that doesn't mean we're wrong. It just means the majority are idiots. And a large portion of that majority are people who didn't buy the Merc Pack and don't have any right to tell paying customers what rights they think we should have over our own purchases. |
|
Smooth Head
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
RydogV wrote:NeoWraith Acedia wrote:Drud Green wrote:RydogV wrote:Wah wah wah...I wanna go home...I want my milk and cookies...I want my mama...I'm not motivated...I'm not dedicated... This is what you really sound like. Seriously. Sincerely, Proud Owner of 4 Merc Packs (Who Doesn't Feel He Got Cheated...In Any Way, Shape or Form) "Have a Nice Day " So you like getting bent over and ****** in the ass? Interesting. Does that mean you like it rough? cause you're getting it in the ass too Not me smart guy. Some of us recognized Open Beta was the end of the line and did it smart. All Aurum spent on Boosters, Blueprints and UVT's. Getting reimbursed for Blueprints and unused UVT's. All Boosters were magically transformed into Skill Points as were the use of all perishables. 'Dragonfly's' and 'Toxins' stacked, racked and ready to sell when the open market kicks in someday. Nope feeling pretty good. And tight...very tight. Thank you. I dunno, sounds like assbandit talk to me. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:I've already posted this tonight, but what the kitten... lrn2ingrish. Quote:*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. This is NOT ambiguous wording. It doesn't imply (in any way) that a character reset is required for the Merc Pack to be refunded on commercial release. The use of the word "and" in the context in which it's used implies the exact opposite - a refund of the Merc Pack's contents WITHOUT a reset. Whether people chose to take it that way or not, that IS what the description said when I bought my Merc Pack, and it IS what the description said for many other customers buying the same product. I'm not "parsing" the language, just reposting what was clearly stated and pointing out that it was clearly stated. People trying to argue against these facts have "I assumed it meant (insert inaccurate assumption) instead of what it actually said" to try and hold their arguments up. I'm sorry to hear that the people who actually know how to read are in the minority, but that doesn't mean we're wrong. It just means the majority are idiots. And a large portion of that majority are people who didn't buy the Merc Pack and don't have any right to tell paying customers what rights they think we should have over our own purchases.
LOL.
Dude, you are just forcing an extraction of meaning from the AND clause... for your own interpretation. Any court would look at the intent at the time and it's clear a reset would have been expected -- and FFS every other refund involved a reset so use your brains and figure it out.
Just stop being an idiot. |
Drud Green
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
What an envious bunch of sooks. You celebrate Ccp shafting people because you perceive the closed beta merc pack terms as unfair. I shouldn't get what i paid for unless *insert random condition*? WTF?
I geuss it was my fault for trusting borderline ***** that teamed up with copyright infringers.
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
436
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:57:00 -
[64] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Quote:*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.
Merc pack refunded in full after each chara reset and for commercial release
The 14th is commercial release but also you will be refunded the merc pack back because you are also getting a chara reset aswell
CCP gives you the merc pack back, but you get a full chara reset for commercial release
|
DeeJay One
BetaMax. CRONOS.
25
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:02:00 -
[65] - Quote
First of all, IANAL (for those who don't know that acronym "I am not a lawyer") OK, so the real solution for everyone would be:
- Give the merc pack AURUM items back
- Remove all SP accrued by using Merc Pack boosters and boosters bought for AURUM.
- Done
Because for a refund you have to give something back.
Also instead of wasting time in these threads, you should prepare a lawsuit if you feel they broke some laws/agreements, because right now you all are just giving away your strategy in court so CCP can pubstomp you on the first trial.
I'm 100% sure that the current refund has been consulted with a lot of lawyers, both US and EU based. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2701
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:10:00 -
[66] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:LOL.
Dude, you are just forcing an extraction of meaning from the AND clause... for your own interpretation. Any court would look at the intent at the time and it's clear a reset would have been expected -- and FFS every other refund involved a reset so use your brains and figure it out.
Just stop being an idiot. So what you're saying is that you don't believe there's a clearly-defined meaning for the word "and"?
Cool story. As I said before, lrn2ingrish.
I used to know a guy who was better at understanding English than you after studying it for 2 weeks in France.
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Quote:*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Merc pack refunded in full after each chara reset and for commercial release The 14th is commercial release but also you will be refunded the merc pack back because you are also getting a chara reset aswell CCP gives you the merc pack back, but you get a full chara reset for commercial release And another one who seems to have missed what the word "and" means.
I'm not sure how many times I've had to explain this, but these do NOT all have the same meaning:
Quote:after each character reset and for the commercial release. "after each character reset including the commercial release." "after each character reset." "after each character reset and maybe for the commercial release if we feel like it." "after each character reset and for the commercial release, but only if you opt in for another character reset."
In case you're not entirely sure, the quote is what many of us agreed to when we bought the Merc Pack. The others are definitely not what we paid for. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
436
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
It just happens that the chara reset happens on the same day as the commercial release when you get your merc pack back |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2701
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:20:00 -
[68] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:It just happens that the chara reset happens on the same day as the commercial release when you get your merc pack back Source that says everyone's getting reset and not just the people who opt in for a reset to get their stuff back?
Because until that's confirmed, this is still a forced reset in exchange for something we were promised on purchase of the Merc Pack, which goes against the condition that "no other refund is permitted". |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
436
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:24:00 -
[69] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:It just happens that the chara reset happens on the same day as the commercial release when you get your merc pack back Source that says everyone's getting reset and not just the people who opt in for a reset to get their stuff back? Because until that's confirmed, this is still a forced reset in exchange for something we were promised on purchase of the Merc Pack, which goes against the condition that "no other refund is permitted".
Its not a forced reset
Its an agreement, it just happens that commercial release means a reset for you to claim back the merc packs, you are getting the refund of the merc pack back
I dont have to claim my merc packs back because i didnt play internet lawyer and im happy with what i have |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2701
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:31:00 -
[70] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:It just happens that the chara reset happens on the same day as the commercial release when you get your merc pack back Source that says everyone's getting reset and not just the people who opt in for a reset to get their stuff back? Because until that's confirmed, this is still a forced reset in exchange for something we were promised on purchase of the Merc Pack, which goes against the condition that "no other refund is permitted". Its not a forced reset Its an agreement, it just happens that commercial release means a reset for you to claim back the merc packs, you are getting the refund of the merc pack back I dont have to claim my merc packs back because i didnt play internet lawyer and im happy with what i have I still have everything that I might have wanted back. I'm not losing or gaining anything by pushing for this. I'm pressing the point because this ISN'T the deal that was agreed to on purchase.
What I'm asking for - and I'm not alone, in spite of some people seeming to think otherwise (I shouldn't have to say this when there have been several posters showing up supporting my argument) - is for CCP to actually honour the agreement they made. That's all. The current proposal is NOT what they agreed to when we gave them our money. Simple.
You'll notice I said "a forced reset IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMETHING WE WERE PROMISED" not just that it's a forced reset. If we want what was ORGIINALLY SPECIFIED AS PART OF THE DEAL WE PAID FOR, we have to take a reset that other players aren't subjected to. We either don't get what we paid for, or we lose something we had been offered, and which NON-PAYING CUSTOMERS STILL GET TO KEEP. |
|
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:22:00 -
[71] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:It just happens that the chara reset happens on the same day as the commercial release when you get your merc pack back Source that says everyone's getting reset and not just the people who opt in for a reset to get their stuff back? Because until that's confirmed, this is still a forced reset in exchange for something we were promised on purchase of the Merc Pack, which goes against the condition that "no other refund is permitted". Its not a forced reset Its an agreement, it just happens that commercial release means a reset for you to claim back the merc packs, you are getting the refund of the merc pack back I dont have to claim my merc packs back because i didnt play internet lawyer and im happy with what i have I still have everything that I might have wanted back. I'm not losing or gaining anything by pushing for this. I'm pressing the point because this ISN'T the deal that was agreed to on purchase. What I'm asking for - and I'm not alone, in spite of some people seeming to think otherwise (I shouldn't have to say this when there have been several posters showing up supporting my argument) - is for CCP to actually honour the agreement they made. That's all. The current proposal is NOT what they agreed to when we gave them our money. Simple. You'll notice I said "a forced reset IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMETHING WE WERE PROMISED" not just that it's a forced reset. If we want what was ORGIINALLY SPECIFIED AS PART OF THE DEAL WE PAID FOR, we have to take a reset that other players aren't subjected to. We either don't get what we paid for, or we lose something we had been offered, and which NON-PAYING CUSTOMERS STILL GET TO KEEP.
Non paying customers didnt buy the merc pack so thats invalid
You were promised a merc pack refund for reset/commercial release and you are getting that
|
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Cool story. As I said before, lrn2ingrish.
I used to know a guy who was better at understanding English than you after studying it for 2 weeks in France.
Things aren't always what they seem once you get into legal issues.
I'm reasonably good at parsing the meaning out of English and believe it or not I've successfully argued contractual issues against a law firm in the past... so this lrn2ingrish stuff is really pretty amusing.
You've already lost but I guess you don't know it yet. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2701
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:31:00 -
[73] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:I still have everything that I might have wanted back. I'm not losing or gaining anything by pushing for this. I'm pressing the point because this ISN'T the deal that was agreed to on purchase.
What I'm asking for - and I'm not alone, in spite of some people seeming to think otherwise (I shouldn't have to say this when there have been several posters showing up supporting my argument) - is for CCP to actually honour the agreement they made. That's all. The current proposal is NOT what they agreed to when we gave them our money. Simple.
You'll notice I said "a forced reset IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMETHING WE WERE PROMISED" not just that it's a forced reset. If we want what was ORGIINALLY SPECIFIED AS PART OF THE DEAL WE PAID FOR, we have to take a reset that other players aren't subjected to. We either don't get what we paid for, or we lose something we had been offered, and which NON-PAYING CUSTOMERS STILL GET TO KEEP. Non paying customers didnt buy the merc pack so thats invalid You were promised a merc pack refund for reset/commercial release and you are getting that We were promised a refund at commercial release. We WEREN'T promised a reset at commercial release. Non-paying customers don't have to give something up to keep their SP. People who bought the Merc Pack are being told we can either keep our SP or get the refund of the Merc Pack which they promised us on release.
That means they're adding a condition to the refund that wasn't specified at the time of purchase, and which doesn't fit with what was agreed to by CCP at that time. |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
190
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
....... If you get your AUR refunded...... you would just buy more Boosters??? Unless you mean you don't get the AUR back if it was spent on a booster but I mean still....... ive got like 20k spent in my raven type 1 suit...... and thousands of AUR elsewhere..... so I mean..... I would still buy a crap ton of boosters given that its not like I would lose the stuff ive already bought. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:I still have everything that I might have wanted back. I'm not losing or gaining anything by pushing for this. I'm pressing the point because this ISN'T the deal that was agreed to on purchase.
What I'm asking for - and I'm not alone, in spite of some people seeming to think otherwise (I shouldn't have to say this when there have been several posters showing up supporting my argument) - is for CCP to actually honour the agreement they made. That's all. The current proposal is NOT what they agreed to when we gave them our money. Simple.
You'll notice I said "a forced reset IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMETHING WE WERE PROMISED" not just that it's a forced reset. If we want what was ORGIINALLY SPECIFIED AS PART OF THE DEAL WE PAID FOR, we have to take a reset that other players aren't subjected to. We either don't get what we paid for, or we lose something we had been offered, and which NON-PAYING CUSTOMERS STILL GET TO KEEP. Non paying customers didnt buy the merc pack so thats invalid You were promised a merc pack refund for reset/commercial release and you are getting that We were promised a refund at commercial release. We WEREN'T promised a reset at commercial release. Non-paying customers don't have to give something up to keep their SP. People who bought the Merc Pack are being told we can either keep our SP or get the refund of the Merc Pack which they promised us on release. That means they're adding a condition to the refund that wasn't specified at the time of purchase, and which doesn't fit with what was agreed to by CCP at that time.
They have the right to change conditions and it seems a reset is need for those who want merc packs back because CCP cannot calculate how much SP/ISK you gain from using the merc pack and its AUR
Plus now its really sounding like that you want another merc pack without taking a hit in SP or ISK |
Ivan Avogadro
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
158
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
bunch of hooey and mumbo jumbo that sounds vaguely quasi legalish
Sue CCP if it's an open and shut case. Or chalk it up to being bilked for $20 (or however much you spent). Or take your reset.
Leave the game or stay and play.
It's done. It's over. Don't kid yourselves into thinking this is a negotiation by posting in these threads. There is no "compromise" to be sought out with CCP. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2702
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:....... If you get your AUR refunded...... you would just buy more Boosters??? Unless you mean you don't get the AUR back if it was spent on a booster but I mean still....... ive got like 20k spent in my raven type 1 suit...... and thousands of AUR elsewhere..... so I mean..... I would still buy a crap ton of boosters given that its not like I would lose the stuff ive already bought. Have you even read the OP? You can't buy "more" Boosters with AUR that hadn't been used to buy Boosters in the first place. The AUR spent on Boosters isn't being refunded under this suggestion. The booster that came with the Merc Pack is also not being refunded. Either of those options would let players "double dip" on SP bonuses, and would be unfair on players who didn't hear about the Merc Pack, but not unfair on people who were here all along but didn't pay attention in their English classes.
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:They have the right to change conditions and it seems a reset is need for those who want merc packs back because CCP cannot calculate how much SP/ISK you gain from using the merc pack and its AUR
Plus now its really sounding like that you want another merc pack without taking a hit in SP or ISK They have the right to change things WITHIN the beta, but they DON'T have the right to change the terms of a purchase agreement made outside of the beta. If the Merc Pack was directly purchased inside the game client, then the EULA would apply. But it isn't, so that argument doesn't hold.
And as I keep saying, I want CCP to give customers what they promised. I'm not personally benefitting from this. At all. Keep believing otherwise if it helps you sleep, but I still have my Booster, and everything but my Dragonfly and Toxin, sitting in storage waiting to be assigned, and I haven't deleted my Blueprints either. I spent most of my AUR, but I spent it all on more Blueprints, so I'll be getting a full refund - with some early purchases refunded at an increased price.
This isn't about me getting more stuff. It's about CCP doing what they agreed to do. I'm asking for a proper solution that will give me precisely NOTHING that I'm not getting under their current offer. Not. One. Single. Thing. NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. It's not about me.
What I'm asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. What the OP is asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. We aren't asking for double the SP gains. We're asking for a FAIR solution that honours the agreement made without punishing paying customers for supporting a game before it was anywhere near ready for release. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:24:00 -
[78] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: What I'm asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. What the OP is asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. We aren't asking for double the SP gains. We're asking for a FAIR solution that honours the agreement made without punishing paying customers for supporting a game before it was anywhere near ready for release.
The current solution is precisely fair. You can get everything back and start the newly released game from scratch like everyone else who wasn't in a beta -- as was promised.
Or, you can quit crying and decide you'd rather forgo the refund and keep the SP you gained during beta. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2702
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:35:00 -
[79] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: What I'm asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. What the OP is asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. We aren't asking for double the SP gains. We're asking for a FAIR solution that honours the agreement made without punishing paying customers for supporting a game before it was anywhere near ready for release.
The current solution is precisely fair. You can get everything back and start the newly released game from scratch like everyone else who wasn't in a beta -- as was promised. Or, you can quit crying and decide you'd rather forgo the refund and keep the SP you gained during beta. Except that's NOT what was promised.
We weren't promised a conditional refund that requires us to lose progress other players get to keep. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: What I'm asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. What the OP is asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. We aren't asking for double the SP gains. We're asking for a FAIR solution that honours the agreement made without punishing paying customers for supporting a game before it was anywhere near ready for release.
The current solution is precisely fair. You can get everything back and start the newly released game from scratch like everyone else who wasn't in a beta -- as was promised. Or, you can quit crying and decide you'd rather forgo the refund and keep the SP you gained during beta. Except that's NOT what was promised. We weren't promised a conditional refund that requires us to lose progress other players get to keep.
They didnt get the merc pack or are not playing internet lawyer and are happy with the SP/ISK
You have a choice, CCP has given you a choice for everyone who bought that merc pack
You are still asking for another merc pack without taking a hit to your chara |
|
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:43:00 -
[81] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Except that's NOT what was promised.
We weren't promised a conditional refund that requires us to lose progress other players get to keep.
You weren't promised an unconditional refund.
You made the assumption, after the fact, that a reset would not be required. This was your own assumption made AFTER CCP suggested that we'd not have to undergo further resets.
|
TheReaper545
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:50:00 -
[82] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: What I'm asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. What the OP is asking for is NOT to get any Boosters refunded. We aren't asking for double the SP gains. We're asking for a FAIR solution that honours the agreement made without punishing paying customers for supporting a game before it was anywhere near ready for release.
The current solution is precisely fair. You can get everything back and start the newly released game from scratch like everyone else who wasn't in a beta -- as was promised. Or, you can quit crying and decide you'd rather forgo the refund and keep the SP you gained during beta. Except that's NOT what was promised. We weren't promised a conditional refund that requires us to lose progress other players get to keep. They didnt get the merc pack or are not playing internet lawyer and are happy with the SP/ISK You have a choice, CCP has given you a choice for everyone who bought that merc pack You are still asking for another merc pack without taking a hit to your chara
To bad that choice isn't part of the purchase agreement. You got the full refund oncommercial release. Now it did not say within the purchase agreement that we would get the merc pack optionally on full release.
Which is what they are doing making it an option. I don't see how you can argue with that. Truthfully idc but in the world of legal issues they are breaking an agreement that they made perfectly clear which could "easily" be proven. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2702
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:51:00 -
[83] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:They didnt get the merc pack or are not playing internet lawyer and are happy with the SP/ISK
You have a choice, CCP has given you a choice for everyone who bought that merc pack
You are still asking for another merc pack without taking a hit to your chara I'm still getting the same content either way.
Do you not read?
I'm not missing out.
I'm arguing this because it will affect people - NOT ME PERSONALLY - who bought the Merc Pack and used content in it with the understanding that it would be credited back on release. There were no conditions except commercial release attached to that refund. They're NOW coming back and saying "but only if you let us wipe your progress without doing the same to other people who didn't help us fund the project early on".
They're shafting the most loyal customers in order to be "fair" on the newcomers and late adopters and they're ignoring a better solution that doesn't pull the rug out from under people who only want the deal that we agreed to pay for. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2702
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 13:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Except that's NOT what was promised.
We weren't promised a conditional refund that requires us to lose progress other players get to keep. You weren't promised an unconditional refund. You made the assumption, after the fact, that a reset would not be required. This was your own assumption made AFTER CCP suggested that we'd not have to undergo further resets. I never assumed a refund would require a reset. I never assumed it would require us not to be reset either.
I DID assume that people who were paying for the development of the game would be treated fairly, though, and unfortunately, my assumption is being proven wrong. CCP violate my trust, I stop paying their bills.
I hope they realise their mistake, but with as many voices like yours ignoring the facts in favour of bowing down before the developers, I'm not sure they will. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:04:00 -
[85] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: I hope they realise their mistake, but with as many voices like yours ignoring the facts in favour of bowing down before the developers, I'm not sure they will.
I'm not bowing down before the developers... I'm looking at the facts and deciding you are out to lunch. |
TheReaper545
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:07:00 -
[86] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: I hope they realise their mistake, but with as many voices like yours ignoring the facts in favour of bowing down before the developers, I'm not sure they will.
I'm not bowing down before the developers... I'm looking at the facts and deciding you are out to lunch.
If you're looking at the fact's you must be looking the wrong way. |
TheReaper545
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:08:00 -
[87] - Quote
TheReaper545 wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: I hope they realise their mistake, but with as many voices like yours ignoring the facts in favour of bowing down before the developers, I'm not sure they will.
I'm not bowing down before the developers... I'm looking at the facts and deciding you are out to lunch. If you're looking at the fact's you must be looking the wrong way.
Actually let me try again you are confusing your facts as an opinion because you clearly can not see the true facts in front of you. Everything he has posted and my single post is true. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:16:00 -
[88] - Quote
TheReaper545 wrote: Actually let me try again you are confusing your facts as an opinion because you clearly can not see the true facts in front of you. Everything he has posted and my single post is true.
Legalese is open to interpretation. You have the option to not take your refund as originally conceived or take it as originally conceived.
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2702
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:TheReaper545 wrote: Actually let me try again you are confusing your facts as an opinion because you clearly can not see the true facts in front of you. Everything he has posted and my single post is true.
Legalese is open to interpretation. You have the option to not take your refund as originally conceived or take it as originally conceived. Actually, you have the option to take your refund with an additional unwanted condition, or to forgo the refund to avoid said condition. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
160
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:43:00 -
[90] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Actually, you have the option to take your refund with an additional unwanted condition, or to forgo the refund to avoid said condition.
No, they did make one mistake and that was the wording of the announcement.
They wen't out describing what they were doing for people and suggested taking the reset/refund as originally intended was an option.
They should have said we're planning on offering one more reset/refund but you have the option of not taking that and instead keeping your SP under these other terms. However, I think they were lazy and knew the majority would not be silly enough to decide they still wanted the reset/refund (so they reversed it to have less manual effort).
Regardless, wording aside, the two are equivalent so it doesn't matter anyway. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2702
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 15:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Regardless, wording aside, the two are equivalent so it doesn't matter anyway. The two options being offered are equivalent, yes.
One is a complete negation of the original offer of a reset on release. The other is a complete negation of any value that offer had. Neither is actually honouring the deal as agreed. Both are equivalent, because both are equally bad and equally unfair on paying customers who expected to be given what we actually paid for.
And here's part of a post from the other thread which is probably more relevant here. I notice that nobody actually adressed this point at all.
Garrett Blacknova wrote:This is an attempt to find a middle ground where nobody - paying or not - is being shafted by CCP. Do you have a VALID argument against the solution of refunding non-Booster content and leaving the Boosters as SP?
By "valid" I mean actually a relevant complaint about CCP doing it. Not "I don't get as many tears this way" and not a poorly-veiled insult to someone's intelligence instead of a rational response (which isn't the best way to support your argument, by the way). Not "I don't like it so you're a doody-head". Not "haha QQ more, scrub". Not "I don't like it". Not "I think the proposed solution is fair enough".
Can you come up with a relevant negative point that would explain why my preferred solution is a bad idea?
The only argument I've seen so far with even the vaguest semblance of validity was "it would be hard for CCP to implement". If that's it, I don't see any good reason not to do it. It would be hard for CCP to go from never having developed any FPS game in their company's history to producing one that's had over 2 million characters created, but look what's happened? Anyone got an answer? A GOOD reason why we shouldn't be given something that actually provides a valid solution? Anyone?
I'm not kidding. If you have a PROPER answer, I'd love to hear it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2704
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 16:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
No response?
What a surprise... |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2725
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 03:09:00 -
[93] - Quote
I'm just bringing this thread back, because it's still an issue that isn't being addressed.
We have a VALID solution here, and we have legitimate arguments in favour of this solution over the offer CCP have made, including "that isn't the deal we paid for". We have, as yet, a total of ZERO valid arguments against this proposal.
Any takers? |
Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
150
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 03:14:00 -
[94] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:No response?
What a surprise... They don't respond to stuff like this. They take your suggestions and then drop a hit of acid. Then someone comes and spins them around in a chair. They then launch a dart at a wall full of words. After a few hours they piece together the words and use this document to fix stuff. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2725
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 03:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:No response?
What a surprise... They don't respond to stuff like this. They take your suggestions and then drop a hit of acid. Then someone comes and spins them around in a chair. They then launch a dart at a wall full of words. After a few hours they piece together the words and use this document to fix stuff. No. I meant from ANYONE, not just the devs.
My post immediately before the one you quoted was an open invitation for ANYONE to provide a valid reason why the proposal in this thread shouldn't be considered. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2730
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 04:43:00 -
[96] - Quote
...and still no counter-arguments? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
459
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 23:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
I wrote a ticket, and they directed me to post this on forums. Told them I'm not spending any more money on Dust due to the fact CCP has demonstrated that they will alter a contract unilaterally and after-the-fact, without consulting the customer.
It sets a poor precedent for future cases so I can't trust CCP to not pull off the same stunt again in the future. And is likely against the law. |
DeadlyAztec11
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
212
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 23:26:00 -
[98] - Quote
The only way for them to totally fulfill their agreement is to go and reset EVERYONES characters. Then give everyone their merc packs in full. Do you honestly want a totall reset? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
459
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 23:50:00 -
[99] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The only way for them to totally fulfill their agreement is to go and reset EVERYONES characters. Then give everyone their merc packs in full. Do you honestly want a totall reset?
Did you even read the OP?
But I agree: unfortunately total reset is the only way I see CCP could truly unfuck this clusterfuck. My speculation of what happened is that they were planning to do a total char reset for launch, thus the language in the Merc Pack. Over the beta they decided that a launch reset was not necessary, and forgot, neglected or plain ignored their obligation to their paying customers.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they most likely just didn't think of the ramifications of a lack of total reset. Nevertheless, they've had several months of people warning about this, yet they decided to force an insult of a non-choice on us - char reset for Merc Pack buyers only, or no refunds.
I wouldn't really mind a reset - most games reset for launch -, but I can just imagine the epic nerdrage and soiled lounge pants resulting from that. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2762
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 02:05:00 -
[100] - Quote
How are you guys missing the part where it says "AND for commercial release"?
Yes, that WOULD fix it, but it isn't the ONLY solution.
In many ways it is the most logical solution, but it's one the devs have specifically stated they WON'T be doing. Which leaves us with the option of shafting us as they currently seem intent on doing, shafting non-paying players, or taking the suggestion in this thread.
Which is the better option? Punishing people who didn't give you money, punishing people who did, or rewarding those who gave you money FAIRLY, without punishing those who didn't?
Seriously, read the OP. Probably twice through, just to be totally clear. Try - TRY - to come up with an argument against it, other than "a full reset is the only option" or "but you people just want more Boosters". |
|
Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
170
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 02:12:00 -
[101] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:How are you guys missing the part where it says "AND for commercial release"?
Yes, that WOULD fix it, but it isn't the ONLY solution.
In many ways it is the most logical solution, but it's one the devs have specifically stated they WON'T be doing. Which leaves us with the option of shafting us as they currently seem intent on doing, shafting non-paying players, or taking the suggestion in this thread.
Which is the better option? Punishing people who didn't give you money, punishing people who did, or rewarding those who gave you money FAIRLY, without punishing those who didn't?
Seriously, read the OP. Probably twice through, just to be totally clear. Try - TRY - to come up with an argument against it, other than "a full reset is the only option" or "but you people just want more Boosters". I think you've offered a great solution. They don't seem to care. |
Takron Nistrom
eHarmony Inc. Phobia.
87
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 02:23:00 -
[102] - Quote
No one seems to notice how many times they got to reuse their merc packs during the beta. I think it's a fair trade. every full reset they got all their stuff back. The agreement for the merc packs was written on the condidition of a full reset. We decided we didn't want a full reset so the merc packs stay used. I am ok with that. I would rather keep my progress than get my merc packs back that i got to use like a dozen times. I am happy with what they decided. if you don't like it, reset your character and get your stuff back.
otherwise, stop being greedy and shut the kitten up. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2780
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 05:24:00 -
[103] - Quote
Takron Nistrom wrote:No one seems to notice how many times they got to reuse their merc packs during the beta. I think it's a fair trade. every full reset they got all their stuff back. The agreement for the merc packs was written on the condidition of a full reset. We decided we didn't want a full reset so the merc packs stay used. I am ok with that. I would rather keep my progress than get my merc packs back that i got to use like a dozen times. I am happy with what they decided. if you don't like it, reset your character and get your stuff back.
otherwise, stop being greedy and shut the kitten up. You obviously haven't read the terms for the pre-open beta Merc Pack.
Until you have, stop being uninformed or shut the kitten up.
Just in case you want to know what's ACTUALLY going on, here's a link to my first post in the thread, where I provide the entire terms given on the Merc Pack description. You'll notice that it DOESN'T say we only get refunds at each reset, but SPECIFICALLY states that we get a further refund at commercial release. NOT that we have an optional refund requiring us to accept a reset of our character that other players won't be subjected to. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 09:01:00 -
[104] - Quote
Takron Nistrom wrote:No one seems to notice how many times they got to reuse their merc packs during the beta. I think it's a fair trade. every full reset they got all their stuff back. The agreement for the merc packs was written on the condidition of a full reset. We decided we didn't want a full reset so the merc packs stay used. I am ok with that. I would rather keep my progress than get my merc packs back that i got to use like a dozen times. I am happy with what they decided. if you don't like it, reset your character and get your stuff back.
otherwise, stop being greedy and shut the kitten up.
You are absolutely correct that Merc Pack buyers got resets during beta, as did everyone else.
That doesn't change the language of the Merc Pack, stating that there will be a refund at launch. There is a huge difference between resets during beta, and reset for launch. In beta you were expected to test things out, that's why the resets. In launch you are stuck with your choices. Many (not me) made those choices during beta with the expectation that they will get their AUR back, so they made deliberately "bad" purchases, which they would have not made if they knew that there is no reset.
But more than that, this is about changing the intent of the terms of the Merc Pack after the fact. With this type of precedent CCP can change their terms at their discretion, and their customers don't have any say in it. Instead we will again end up with literally months of warnings and threads riddled with trolls, and all we get for our efforts is frustration, anger at a good game with potential for truly epic gameplay, dissatisfied customers, and more people who pledge never to give more money to CCP.
That is a lose-lose situation for Dust, the community, and CCP. Now is the last time CCP can unkitten this - to the extent it is possible -, and the proposal outlined in the OP proposed by me, Garrett and others at various times over the last months is the best one.
The only viable alternative I have seen is a total reset for everyone, but as mentioned earlier, that is not an attractive option for many beta testers. It would be great for the new players, though. Dust is the only game I've seen which doesn't have a full reset at launch - I'm sure there are others, but by and large games reset at launch for a good reason. It is even more important in an MMO, as us beta players have almost four months head start on the newberries. But perhaps that's another topic. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2918
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 02:46:00 -
[105] - Quote
Still not seeing any valid counter-argument against this suggestion.
Any word from CCP yet? Nope. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2929
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 10:24:00 -
[106] - Quote
And another bump for visibility... |
Darius Ashran
BetaMax. CRONOS.
23
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 13:06:00 -
[107] - Quote
Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
496
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:01:00 -
[108] - Quote
Darius Ashran wrote:Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please?
It's not necroing when the issue is very much open, and tickets raised to fix this issue urge us to post on forums instead. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2956
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 09:37:00 -
[109] - Quote
Darius Ashran wrote:Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please? I'll stop "necroing" a "dead" thread when it stops being relevant or there's a more recent thread on the topic with all the relevant information from this thread and something new on top of that.
When will you stop backseat moderating? |
GLiMPSE X
Elite Gamers Militia
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 09:41:00 -
[110] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Darius Ashran wrote:Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please? I'll stop "necroing" a "dead" thread when it stops being relevant or there's a more recent thread on the topic with all the relevant information from this thread and something new on top of that. When will you stop backseat moderating?
You received the benefits from the merc packs as you kept your progress that was gained by using those items. Let's stop trying to get something for free regardless of the language that was used.
I'm sure a reasonable person could understand the spirit in which those claims were made. |
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2956
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 10:02:00 -
[111] - Quote
GLiMPSE X wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Darius Ashran wrote:Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please? I'll stop "necroing" a "dead" thread when it stops being relevant or there's a more recent thread on the topic with all the relevant information from this thread and something new on top of that. When will you stop backseat moderating? You received the benefits from the merc packs as you kept your progress that was gained by using those items. Let's stop trying to get something for free regardless of the language that was used. I'm sure a reasonable person could understand the spirit in which those claims were made. I'm sure a reasonable person could understand that "and" doesn't mean the same as "including". I'm sure a reasonable person could understand that "every reset and commercial release" means that early adopters were offered a little extra for helping to fund development on an unproven product that was still in closed beta.
A reasonable person SHOULD be able to understand the spirit in which these claims are being made. Apparently you're not a reasonable person though.
We're not asking for more than we agreed to when we bought the Merc Pack. In my case, I'm not even asking for anything I don't already have. Either the option we're being given right now or the proposal in this thread will result in literally exactly the same thing for me. Not a single change. EXACTLY. THE. SAME. It won't affect my personal situation at all. I'm arguing this because what CCP are offering doesn't hold true to what they offered, and doesn't hold true to the intent under which many customers purchased the Merc Pack. |
GLiMPSE X
Elite Gamers Militia
4
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 10:06:00 -
[112] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:GLiMPSE X wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Darius Ashran wrote:Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please? I'll stop "necroing" a "dead" thread when it stops being relevant or there's a more recent thread on the topic with all the relevant information from this thread and something new on top of that. When will you stop backseat moderating? You received the benefits from the merc packs as you kept your progress that was gained by using those items. Let's stop trying to get something for free regardless of the language that was used. I'm sure a reasonable person could understand the spirit in which those claims were made. I'm sure a reasonable person could understand that "and" doesn't mean the same as "including". I'm sure a reasonable person could understand that "every reset and commercial release" means that early adopters were offered a little extra for helping to fund development on an unproven product that was still in closed beta. A reasonable person SHOULD be able to understand the spirit in which these claims are being made. Apparently you're not a reasonable person though.
We're not asking for more than we agreed to when we bought the Merc Pack. In my case, I'm not even asking for anything I don't already have. Either the option we're being given right now or the proposal in this thread will result in literally exactly the same thing for me. Not a single change. EXACTLY. THE. SAME. It won't affect my personal situation at all. I'm arguing this because what CCP are offering doesn't hold true to what they offered, and doesn't hold true to the intent under which many customers purchased the Merc Pack.
You're upset, I understand.
I'm sure the CCP gods are sitting behind their keyboards taking your melodramatic banter seriously.
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2958
|
Posted - 2013.05.14 11:15:00 -
[113] - Quote
GLiMPSE X wrote:You're upset, I understand.
I'm sure the CCP gods are sitting behind their keyboards taking your melodramatic banter seriously. Thanks for being so offended by my "melodramatic banter" to help me keep the thread alive. Very kind of you. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
515
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:23:00 -
[114] - Quote
CCP, as of yesterday you failed to address this issue by launch, haven't responded to any of the threads about this issue, yet point us to the forums when we raise a support ticket on the subject.
I take it that means you have decided that you will not take further action, or even extend a goodwill gesture to rectify this. You are going against the very clear language of the Merc Pack advertisements and terms you yourself created. This is likely in breach of contract, and in the very least, it is clearly against the intent and spirit of the original Merc Pack offer.
Further, this sets the precedent that you will do as you please when it comes to your customer's money, and will change policies of AUR items at your discretion, with little to no regard to the impact it has on your paying customers.
That is an untenable state of affairs. I will not be spending any more money on Dust, as my trust in CCP handling this and future disputes in a transparent and fair manner is zero. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
594
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:46:00 -
[115] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:CCP, as of yesterday you failed to address this issue by launch, haven't responded to any of the threads about this issue, yet point us to the forums when we raise a support ticket on the subject.
I take it that means you have decided that you will not take further action, or even extend a goodwill gesture to rectify this. You are going against the very clear language of the Merc Pack advertisements and terms you yourself created. This is likely in breach of contract, and in the very least, it is clearly against the intent and spirit of the original Merc Pack offer.
Further, this sets the precedent that you will do as you please when it comes to your customer's money, and will change policies of AUR items at your discretion, with little to no regard to the impact it has on your paying customers.
That is an untenable state of affairs. I will not be spending any more money on Dust, as my trust in CCP handling this and future disputes in a transparent and fair manner is zero.
This rant is still going on? CCP did a soft roll out and reset the characters when we hit the production server. The majority of the players were totally happy with it. You want to play games with legal wording. Now they are offering you the full merc pack reset you asked for to meet those terms and don't like the how it affects you. You want to keep your SP or get your merc packs reset? You get one or the other.
Take the reset. Get your precious aurum back to spend a second or third time and end this. I'm holding on to my skill points. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2978
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:51:00 -
[116] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:CCP, as of yesterday you failed to address this issue by launch, haven't responded to any of the threads about this issue, yet point us to the forums when we raise a support ticket on the subject.
I take it that means you have decided that you will not take further action, or even extend a goodwill gesture to rectify this. You are going against the very clear language of the Merc Pack advertisements and terms you yourself created. This is likely in breach of contract, and in the very least, it is clearly against the intent and spirit of the original Merc Pack offer.
Further, this sets the precedent that you will do as you please when it comes to your customer's money, and will change policies of AUR items at your discretion, with little to no regard to the impact it has on your paying customers.
That is an untenable state of affairs. I will not be spending any more money on Dust, as my trust in CCP handling this and future disputes in a transparent and fair manner is zero. This rant is still going on? CCP did a soft roll out and reset the characters when we hit the production server. The majority of the players were totally happy with it. You want to play games with legal wording. Now they are offering you the full merc pack reset you asked for to meet those terms and don't like the how it affects you. You want to keep your SP or get your merc packs reset? You get one or the other. Take the reset. Get your precious aurum back to spend a second or third time and end this. I'm holding on to my skill points. Which part of the agreement specified that we have to take a character reset in order to be eligible for the credit of our Merc Pack contents?
Hint: The correct answer is "they never said that". |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
595
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:57:00 -
[117] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Which part of the agreement specified that we have to take a character reset in order to be eligible for the credit of our Merc Pack contents?
Hint: The correct answer is "they never said that".
EXACTLY
If you still want a refund they have the right to take away the benefit you had while using the contents of those packs. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2978
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 11:04:00 -
[118] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: Which part of the agreement specified that we have to take a character reset in order to be eligible for the credit of our Merc Pack contents?
Hint: The correct answer is "they never said that".
EXACTLY If you still want a refund they have the right to take away the benefit you had while using the contents of those packs. Try actually reading what I said before claiming that I agree with you.
The terms specify a full credit of the Merc Pack on commercial release. NOT a conditional credit that requires us to agree to a character reset, which is what the current "offer" is.
The lack of response from CCP on this issue is frustrating as well. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
595
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 11:17:00 -
[119] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: Which part of the agreement specified that we have to take a character reset in order to be eligible for the credit of our Merc Pack contents?
Hint: The correct answer is "they never said that".
EXACTLY If you still want a refund they have the right to take away the benefit you had while using the contents of those packs. Try actually reading what I said before claiming that I agree with you. The terms specify a full credit of the Merc Pack on commercial release. NOT a conditional credit that requires us to agree to a character reset, which is what the current "offer" is. The lack of response from CCP on this issue is frustrating as well.
I did read what you said. Your point was they didn't say one way or another that the full reset was attached to the deal and I agreed with you. Now we are at commercial release, CCP has responded and is offering you a full reset of all Merc Packs that you have purchased.
My point remains, you don't like the fact that you have to choose between keeping what you have earned or resetting to get back the full contents of the packs. My other point remains in that most people understood that the situation changed when CCP decided to go ahead and introduce mercenaries to the live servers and reset us early. They made it abundantly clear that the reset was happening before the 'beta' tag was being removed and changed the wording on the merc packs being sold shortly after that.The situation was fluid and most of us adapted without issue.
To meet the agreement of the original merc pack they now offer a full refund with a full reset, putting you back to when we made the transition to Tranquility. If you still don't think that meets the agreement then hire a lawyer at $200 an hour and fight it.
CCP has responded. Now you get to choose.
|
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2978
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 11:27:00 -
[120] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:I did read what you said. Your point was they didn't say one way or another that the full reset was attached to the deal and I agreed with you. Now we are at commercial release, CCP has responded and is offering you a full reset of all Merc Packs that you have purchased. If you think that was my point, you should probably stay in school. If you're not still in school, going back is probably well worth considering. The point was that they said there WILL BE A FULL CREDIT for people who bought the Merc Pack, and they DIDN'T include any condition of a reset on that credit.
Quote:My point remains, you don't like the fact that you have to choose between keeping what you have earned or resetting to get back the full contents of the packs. My other point remains in that most people understood that the situation changed when CCP decided to go ahead and introduce mercenaries to the live servers and reset us early. They made it abundantly clear that the reset was happening before the 'beta' tag was being removed and changed the wording on the merc packs being sold shortly after that.The situation was fluid and most of us adapted without issue. The terms which CCP agreed to when we bought the Merc Pack aren't "fluid" and weren't changed by CCP's decision not to reset everyone. Customers have the right to ask for what CCP agreed to when we bought our Merc Packs. Changing the terms on the Merc Pack after people already brought it doesn't change the terms that were already agreed to with those purchases. It only means that early adopters were sold something that was no longer on the table.
Quote:To meet the agreement of the original merc pack they now offer a full refund with a full reset, putting you back to when we made the transition to Tranquility. If you still don't think that meets the agreement then hire a lawyer at $200 an hour and fight it. Or I could ask my best friend's mother who is a lawyer, or any of several friends currently in law school and willing to run as advisors for a case where I represent myself in a small claims court. Or alternatively, I can choose not to waste my money on lawyers OR on paying CCP's bills for a while. I'm not being negatively impacted by this either way, so while I'm going to keep arguing the point here, I'm NOT going to waste effort on legal action, and if CCP are offering something that I'm actually interested in (right now they aren't), I might eventually spend more money with them. But it's going to be a while before I give them anything if they don't address the legitimate complaints about this "offer" they're making.
Quote:CCP has responded. Now you get to choose. And I choose to question the legitimacy of the offer. Your point? |
|
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
199
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 11:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
Pft. Garrett you suck at Internet lawyering.
You have a couple of options at this point:
Take your Aurum back. Doing so cause a reset to you character.
Don't take your Aurum back and keep your skill points.
Leave.
At this point, I'm not at my computer so I can't pull up exact terms and quotes. But I warn you, you are fighting a losing battle.
But if I get back to my computer and see that you came back with any rebuttal, retort, or refusal, and the GMs didn't lock this down, I will come back here and properly shame you into the hole you crawled out of. By the way, that's not a threat, that's just a statement of fact.
And yes, I am one that is sick and tired of these mer pack refund debates. What enrages me more is the fact that people can't read the terms word-for-word and skip certain sentences to draw their own arbitrary conclusions.
GM Vegas, GM Hercules, or GM Unicorn, I will request a lock for this thread because this issue has already been addressed. However, a small part of me hopes you keep this open. I want to shut these guys down. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2978
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 12:05:00 -
[122] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:At this point, I'm not at my computer so I can't pull up exact terms and quotes. But I warn you, you are fighting a losing battle. The exact terms are on the first page of this thread. Feel free to look them up if you want. I know the battle I'm fighting, and the reason why. I also know (and have specifically mentioned in recent posts) what I'm doing about it.
Quote:I will request a lock for this thread because this issue has already been addressed. No, it hasn't been addressed. Requesting a response from CCP through the Support system gets directed to the forums. So far, there has been no answer on the forums. That isn't "addressing" an issue. It's avoiding it. There's a difference. |
Israckcatarac
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 12:13:00 -
[123] - Quote
Is this guy for real? You used the AUR to gane SP. No getting that back with out taking the SP away. Are you realy that stupid. I bet your that guy that eats the whole hamburger except that last bite and then demands a new one because it wasn't made right. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2978
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 12:20:00 -
[124] - Quote
Israckcatarac wrote:Is this guy for real? You used the AUR to gane SP. No getting that back with out taking the SP away. Are you realy that stupid. I bet your that guy that eats the whole hamburger except that last bite and then demands a new one because it wasn't made right. If I bought a hamburger in a store that was offering a pre-opening deal and they said I'd have a credit for another burger, but I had to return whatever I didn't eat of the first one, then I'd expect a new burger when I go back for the official opening.
And actually, I spent my AUR on Blueprints, mostly. As long as I still have them, I still have the value of the Aurum. If they want to refund those BPOs, I won't complain, but I'm not expecting my AUR back AND to keep what I bought. And the only AUR items that directly give you SP are Boosters, which this suggestion specifically excludes from being refunded.
What is your argument here? |
Israckcatarac
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
18
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 12:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Israckcatarac wrote:Is this guy for real? You used the AUR to gane SP. No getting that back with out taking the SP away. Are you realy that stupid. I bet your that guy that eats the whole hamburger except that last bite and then demands a new one because it wasn't made right. If I bought a hamburger in a store that was offering a pre-opening deal and they said I'd have a credit for another burger, but I had to return whatever I didn't eat of the first one, then I'd expect a new burger when I go back for the official opening. And actually, I spent my AUR on Blueprints, mostly. As long as I still have them, I still have the value of the Aurum. If they want to refund those BPOs, I won't complain, but I'm not expecting my AUR back AND to keep what I bought. And the only AUR items that directly give you SP are Boosters, which this suggestion specifically excludes from being refunded. What is your argument here? The y would have to remove all SP gained while using those AUR items as well as all your stats gained. Do you even realize how big of a lame you have made your self out to be too thousands of people. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2981
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 12:55:00 -
[126] - Quote
Israckcatarac wrote:The y would have to remove all SP gained while using those AUR items as well as all your stats gained. Do you even realize how big of a lame you have made your self out to be too thousands of people. I'd love to respond to this, but it doesn't appear to be in English. Can you please translate it so I can provide a valid answer to whatever it was you just tried to say?
(sorry, but seriously, I have no idea what any of this is meant to mean) |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
518
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 13:45:00 -
[127] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Israckcatarac wrote:The y would have to remove all SP gained while using those AUR items as well as all your stats gained. Do you even realize how big of a lame you have made your self out to be too thousands of people. I'd love to respond to this, but it doesn't appear to be in English. Can you please translate it so I can provide a valid answer to whatever it was you just tried to say? (sorry, but seriously, I have no idea what any of this is meant to mean)
I believe he means that full char reset for everyone would be unfair for those who didn't buy a Merc Pack.
But it's not: full char reset happens in every other game before launch so that vets don't get an even bigger advantage than they already do. CCP made the myopic and wrong decision to not reset everyone. But that's a moot point now, and too late. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2982
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 13:50:00 -
[128] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Israckcatarac wrote:The y would have to remove all SP gained while using those AUR items as well as all your stats gained. Do you even realize how big of a lame you have made your self out to be too thousands of people. I'd love to respond to this, but it doesn't appear to be in English. Can you please translate it so I can provide a valid answer to whatever it was you just tried to say? (sorry, but seriously, I have no idea what any of this is meant to mean) I believe he means that full char reset for everyone would be unfair for those who didn't buy a Merc Pack. But it's not: full char reset happens in every other game before launch so that vets don't get an even bigger advantage than they already do. CCP made the myopic and wrong decision to not reset everyone. But that's a moot point now, and too late. And if that is what he meant, that wasn't what people in this thread are asking for anyway, so I'm still not sure about the relevance of the comment. |
Onesimus Tarsus
Planetary Response Organization
31
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 22:36:00 -
[129] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff.
Even from a "Free-to-play" game? How odd. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3070
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 23:23:00 -
[130] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. Even from a "Free-to-play" game? How odd. +1.
Made me laugh. |
|
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
526
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Now CCP sent me an automated email saying I've been added to the queue for full character reset. I never requested it.
Class act. |
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