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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
432
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Posted - 2013.05.05 00:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
[skip to SOLUTION section if you're familiar with the topic]
ISSUE: Merc Pack was advertised with the language "Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release." Understandably many buyers expected their AUR items to be refunded at release. Now that release is imminent, CCP has deemed it necessary to make certain amends to the rules in a recent Dev Blog entry.
These changes are either expected and fair, or blatant breach of contract and spitting on your most fervent supporters, depending on which side of the fence you are on. But that is off this topic; there are other threads for those discussions, some of which even remain unlocked as I write this.
There are currently two options offered by CCP:
- "an optional full character reset with Mercenary Pack or Aurum reimbursement." - this is ostensibly offered to fulfill the advertised pack rules. While it arguably does meet the "credited in full... ...for the commercial release" -language, it is inarguably against the spirit of such an agreement.
- no refund of AUR items you have already spent - this is against the pack offer, and is a stopgap measure CCP has put in place.
#1 means you lose all the progress you've made in the months of beta. As you can see, #2 is the only real option unless you plan on stopping playing Dust.
Since we essentially have only one option, we end up with no refund, #2. But I bet most of the buyers were not expecting refunds on boosters, as they will carry the benefit from using them in the form of higher SP.
The issue is with AUR items, such as dropsuits and weapons that were consumed during beta. CCP's most hardcore customers spent money to test their game for them, some with the expectation of a full refund at launch as a direct result of very clear language in the Pack description. CCP, you don't want to lose those customers, or to bear the loss of goodwill and resulting word of mouth.
But there is an workable compromise, an option much better than option #1.
SOLUTION: refund all Merc Packs, except for used boosters and UVTs.
This is the sensible thing to do: it will keep your most dedicated fans happy, yet will not give them millions of bonus SP for free in the form of refunded boosters.
And it will be a better business decision than this shortsighted, poorly designed and quite frankly insulting option of full refund with character reset you so graciously offer as a compromise in the dev blog. Hopefully the damage hasn't been already done - but given the numerous PR follies you've made in the past months I think your players will give you some slack.
For the record, I have two Merc Packs, and I bought a UVT, all the cheap BPOs and a few vanity suits before their prices were jacked up (wonder what happens to them on Monday?), and a booster or two. I did these purchases with the anticipation that I would not get refunded. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing.
Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing.
I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. The offer I propose is a compromise which I believe we can all live with. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again?
This is a compromise, and not the only option. You can still seek refund via your retailer or Sony, or via chargeback.
Let's try to keep this civil and constructive so it doesn't get locked like numerous other threads. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
434
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:This sounds to me like some people are crying they don't get free boosters/SP.
truth is, CCP doesn't want people getting free skill points. if you used it, it's gone. Either that or, you can choose to get it back, but you lose all the SP you earned with it, and then some.
And this is exactly why I'm proposing this compromise, which would not give free SP.
Quote:
It's fair, if you don't like it, don't reset, and just take your licks like EVERY. ONE. ELSE. It is seriously an issue of wanting your cake, and to eat it too. Well, sorry kids, sometimes this world doesn't work that way. I think CCP has been MORE THAN lenient with the free items and "beta bonuses". You ever hear the term "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? Yeah, that means this. Don't do this thing you are doing.
There's no gift horse: Merc Packs cost money.
Quote:It's like you going to the bank, emptying out your savings, then asking for a free refill.
Not even close.
It's like going to McDonald's, seeing "free refills" advertised when you buy a Coke, and when you go get your refill, they say "oh, we didn't really mean 'free refills' although we did say so, but you are free to deposit the Coke you drank into this bucket and we'll give you your money back." |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 10:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:I think you are missing the point. Most ppl are not upset that they lost money. Most ppl are upset because they were lied to and betrayed. But I do like your post and an honest effort to reach a compromise and be fair to all sides.
No, I get that. I feel lied to and betrayed as well - and I'm not even losing anything! Companies can't change contract terms unilaterally, without a "meeting of the minds," and this change sets a dangerous precedent which doesn't fare well for future disputes. As a result, I can't trust CCP anymore to give them money.
I alluded to the loss of goodwill and damage that has been already done to CCPs reputation in the OP, much of it which won't be undone by any compromise - including the proposed one - or even a full 180 turn. CCP royally screwed up, one of their worst PR disasters they've had - and there's a lot to choose from. The proposal is put on the table (again; I'm not the only or the first one with this) to do some damage control, as much as it is possible.
I wanted to keep all that out of this thread to avoid it getting locked like so many others on the topic. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
459
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 23:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I wrote a ticket, and they directed me to post this on forums. Told them I'm not spending any more money on Dust due to the fact CCP has demonstrated that they will alter a contract unilaterally and after-the-fact, without consulting the customer.
It sets a poor precedent for future cases so I can't trust CCP to not pull off the same stunt again in the future. And is likely against the law. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
459
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 23:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The only way for them to totally fulfill their agreement is to go and reset EVERYONES characters. Then give everyone their merc packs in full. Do you honestly want a totall reset?
Did you even read the OP?
But I agree: unfortunately total reset is the only way I see CCP could truly unfuck this clusterfuck. My speculation of what happened is that they were planning to do a total char reset for launch, thus the language in the Merc Pack. Over the beta they decided that a launch reset was not necessary, and forgot, neglected or plain ignored their obligation to their paying customers.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt, they most likely just didn't think of the ramifications of a lack of total reset. Nevertheless, they've had several months of people warning about this, yet they decided to force an insult of a non-choice on us - char reset for Merc Pack buyers only, or no refunds.
I wouldn't really mind a reset - most games reset for launch -, but I can just imagine the epic nerdrage and soiled lounge pants resulting from that. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
464
|
Posted - 2013.05.08 09:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takron Nistrom wrote:No one seems to notice how many times they got to reuse their merc packs during the beta. I think it's a fair trade. every full reset they got all their stuff back. The agreement for the merc packs was written on the condidition of a full reset. We decided we didn't want a full reset so the merc packs stay used. I am ok with that. I would rather keep my progress than get my merc packs back that i got to use like a dozen times. I am happy with what they decided. if you don't like it, reset your character and get your stuff back.
otherwise, stop being greedy and shut the kitten up.
You are absolutely correct that Merc Pack buyers got resets during beta, as did everyone else.
That doesn't change the language of the Merc Pack, stating that there will be a refund at launch. There is a huge difference between resets during beta, and reset for launch. In beta you were expected to test things out, that's why the resets. In launch you are stuck with your choices. Many (not me) made those choices during beta with the expectation that they will get their AUR back, so they made deliberately "bad" purchases, which they would have not made if they knew that there is no reset.
But more than that, this is about changing the intent of the terms of the Merc Pack after the fact. With this type of precedent CCP can change their terms at their discretion, and their customers don't have any say in it. Instead we will again end up with literally months of warnings and threads riddled with trolls, and all we get for our efforts is frustration, anger at a good game with potential for truly epic gameplay, dissatisfied customers, and more people who pledge never to give more money to CCP.
That is a lose-lose situation for Dust, the community, and CCP. Now is the last time CCP can unkitten this - to the extent it is possible -, and the proposal outlined in the OP proposed by me, Garrett and others at various times over the last months is the best one.
The only viable alternative I have seen is a total reset for everyone, but as mentioned earlier, that is not an attractive option for many beta testers. It would be great for the new players, though. Dust is the only game I've seen which doesn't have a full reset at launch - I'm sure there are others, but by and large games reset at launch for a good reason. It is even more important in an MMO, as us beta players have almost four months head start on the newberries. But perhaps that's another topic. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
496
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 10:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Darius Ashran wrote:Stop nercroing a dead thread its over a weak old. Can a Gm lock this please?
It's not necroing when the issue is very much open, and tickets raised to fix this issue urge us to post on forums instead. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
515
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 10:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP, as of yesterday you failed to address this issue by launch, haven't responded to any of the threads about this issue, yet point us to the forums when we raise a support ticket on the subject.
I take it that means you have decided that you will not take further action, or even extend a goodwill gesture to rectify this. You are going against the very clear language of the Merc Pack advertisements and terms you yourself created. This is likely in breach of contract, and in the very least, it is clearly against the intent and spirit of the original Merc Pack offer.
Further, this sets the precedent that you will do as you please when it comes to your customer's money, and will change policies of AUR items at your discretion, with little to no regard to the impact it has on your paying customers.
That is an untenable state of affairs. I will not be spending any more money on Dust, as my trust in CCP handling this and future disputes in a transparent and fair manner is zero. |
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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
518
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 13:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Israckcatarac wrote:The y would have to remove all SP gained while using those AUR items as well as all your stats gained. Do you even realize how big of a lame you have made your self out to be too thousands of people. I'd love to respond to this, but it doesn't appear to be in English. Can you please translate it so I can provide a valid answer to whatever it was you just tried to say? (sorry, but seriously, I have no idea what any of this is meant to mean)
I believe he means that full char reset for everyone would be unfair for those who didn't buy a Merc Pack.
But it's not: full char reset happens in every other game before launch so that vets don't get an even bigger advantage than they already do. CCP made the myopic and wrong decision to not reset everyone. But that's a moot point now, and too late. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
526
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 23:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Now CCP sent me an automated email saying I've been added to the queue for full character reset. I never requested it.
Class act. |
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