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Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
432
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
[skip to SOLUTION section if you're familiar with the topic]
ISSUE: Merc Pack was advertised with the language "Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release." Understandably many buyers expected their AUR items to be refunded at release. Now that release is imminent, CCP has deemed it necessary to make certain amends to the rules in a recent Dev Blog entry.
These changes are either expected and fair, or blatant breach of contract and spitting on your most fervent supporters, depending on which side of the fence you are on. But that is off this topic; there are other threads for those discussions, some of which even remain unlocked as I write this.
There are currently two options offered by CCP:
- "an optional full character reset with Mercenary Pack or Aurum reimbursement." - this is ostensibly offered to fulfill the advertised pack rules. While it arguably does meet the "credited in full... ...for the commercial release" -language, it is inarguably against the spirit of such an agreement.
- no refund of AUR items you have already spent - this is against the pack offer, and is a stopgap measure CCP has put in place.
#1 means you lose all the progress you've made in the months of beta. As you can see, #2 is the only real option unless you plan on stopping playing Dust.
Since we essentially have only one option, we end up with no refund, #2. But I bet most of the buyers were not expecting refunds on boosters, as they will carry the benefit from using them in the form of higher SP.
The issue is with AUR items, such as dropsuits and weapons that were consumed during beta. CCP's most hardcore customers spent money to test their game for them, some with the expectation of a full refund at launch as a direct result of very clear language in the Pack description. CCP, you don't want to lose those customers, or to bear the loss of goodwill and resulting word of mouth.
But there is an workable compromise, an option much better than option #1.
SOLUTION: refund all Merc Packs, except for used boosters and UVTs.
This is the sensible thing to do: it will keep your most dedicated fans happy, yet will not give them millions of bonus SP for free in the form of refunded boosters.
And it will be a better business decision than this shortsighted, poorly designed and quite frankly insulting option of full refund with character reset you so graciously offer as a compromise in the dev blog. Hopefully the damage hasn't been already done - but given the numerous PR follies you've made in the past months I think your players will give you some slack.
For the record, I have two Merc Packs, and I bought a UVT, all the cheap BPOs and a few vanity suits before their prices were jacked up (wonder what happens to them on Monday?), and a booster or two. I did these purchases with the anticipation that I would not get refunded. |
arimal lavaren
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
208
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Posted - 2013.05.05 00:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ridonculous |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
149
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Posted - 2013.05.05 00:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing.
Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing.
I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. The offer I propose is a compromise which I believe we can all live with. |
0 Try Harder
Faabulous
314
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
**** no! I like the way they did it. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:[skip to SOLUTION section if you're familiar with the topic] ISSUE: Merc Pack was advertised with the language "Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release." Understandably many buyers expected their AUR items to be refunded at release. Now that release is imminent, CCP has deemed it necessary to make certain amends to the rules in a recent Dev Blog entry. These changes are either expected and fair, or blatant breach of contract and spitting on your most fervent supporters, depending on which side of the fence you are on. But that is off this topic; there are other threads for those discussions, some of which even remain unlocked as I write this. There are currently two options offered by CCP:
- "an optional full character reset with Mercenary Pack or Aurum reimbursement." - this is ostensibly offered to fulfill the advertised pack rules. While it arguably does meet the "credited in full... ...for the commercial release" -language, it is inarguably against the spirit of such an agreement.
- no refund of AUR items you have already spent - this is against the pack offer, and is a stopgap measure CCP has put in place.
#1 means you lose all the progress you've made in the months of beta. As you can see, #2 is the only real option unless you plan on stopping playing Dust. Since we essentially have only one option, we end up with no refund, #2. But I bet most of the buyers were not expecting refunds on boosters, as they will carry the benefit from using them in the form of higher SP. The issue is with AUR items, such as dropsuits and weapons that were consumed during beta. CCP's most hardcore customers spent money to test their game for them, some with the expectation of a full refund at launch as a direct result of very clear language in the Pack description. CCP, you don't want to lose those customers, or to bear the loss of goodwill and resulting word of mouth. But there is an workable compromise, an option much better than option #1. SOLUTION: refund all Merc Packs, except for used boosters and UVTs.This is the sensible thing to do: it will keep your most dedicated fans happy, yet will not give them millions of bonus SP for free in the form of refunded boosters. And it will be a better business decision than this shortsighted, poorly designed and quite frankly insulting option of full refund with character reset you so graciously offer as a compromise in the dev blog. Hopefully the damage hasn't been already done - but given the numerous PR follies you've made in the past months I think your players will give you some slack. For the record, I have two Merc Packs, and I bought a UVT, all the cheap BPOs and a few vanity suits before their prices were jacked up (wonder what happens to them on Monday?), and a booster or two. I did these purchases with the anticipation that I would not get refunded. its over you lost and CCP won. |
Smooth Head
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
433
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again?
This is a compromise, and not the only option. You can still seek refund via your retailer or Sony, or via chargeback.
Let's try to keep this civil and constructive so it doesn't get locked like numerous other threads. |
Orin the Freak
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group
497
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
This sounds to me like some people are crying they don't get free boosters/SP.
truth is, CCP doesn't want people getting free skill points. if you used it, it's gone. Either that or, you can choose to get it back, but you lose all the SP you earned with it, and then some.
It's fair, if you don't like it, don't reset, and just take your licks like EVERY. ONE. ELSE. It is seriously an issue of wanting your cake, and to eat it too. Well, sorry kids, sometimes this world doesn't work that way. I think CCP has been MORE THAN lenient with the free items and "beta bonuses". You ever hear the term "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? Yeah, that means this. Don't do this thing you are doing.
Thousands of other people bought merc packs too. The hand full of people crying about it here on the forums are such a vast minority. you might think everyone is upset, they just don't post. well, i'm sure thats partly true, but I have a feeling if more people were half as "outraged" as some of the posters here on the forums, they would seek out these forums and make themselves heard.
I honestly think people just don't really care. Everyone got their moneys worth, and got what they paid for. And if you want to be reimbursed, CCP is offering that to you. Sure there's a caveat, but it's a fair caveat that doesn't just hand out free skill boosters.
It's like you going to the bank, emptying out your savings, then asking for a free refill.
CCP did make the promise in the past to give you your AUR back, and they are living up to it. But they are making sure you pay it forward before you get your money back. It's a free re-purchase, not a free refill. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
291
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? because they like the game |
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Thor Odinson42
Planetary Response Organization
134
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have come back around to being perfectly okay with the way it is. If you like the game put it down as contributing to the game. If you hung around hoping for an AUR refund and can't get over it then I guess you'll just have to go. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
434
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Orin the Freak wrote:This sounds to me like some people are crying they don't get free boosters/SP.
truth is, CCP doesn't want people getting free skill points. if you used it, it's gone. Either that or, you can choose to get it back, but you lose all the SP you earned with it, and then some.
And this is exactly why I'm proposing this compromise, which would not give free SP.
Quote: It's fair, if you don't like it, don't reset, and just take your licks like EVERY. ONE. ELSE. It is seriously an issue of wanting your cake, and to eat it too. Well, sorry kids, sometimes this world doesn't work that way. I think CCP has been MORE THAN lenient with the free items and "beta bonuses". You ever hear the term "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? Yeah, that means this. Don't do this thing you are doing.
There's no gift horse: Merc Packs cost money.
Quote:It's like you going to the bank, emptying out your savings, then asking for a free refill.
Not even close.
It's like going to McDonald's, seeing "free refills" advertised when you buy a Coke, and when you go get your refill, they say "oh, we didn't really mean 'free refills' although we did say so, but you are free to deposit the Coke you drank into this bucket and we'll give you your money back." |
Protoman Is God
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
133
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Just contact sony/gamestop CCP lost |
P14GU3
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
37
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
"CCP doesn't want people to get free SP"
Lulz, anyone AFK much?
I just think its funny that CCP screws up the sp system and its "we will fix it eventually until then feel free to break the game even more" and everyones "cool why not, lets show these @$$clowns they messed up" but the merc pack fiascoe becomes "nuh uh, its game breaking and an unfair advantage..." |
DTOracle
Universal Allies Inc.
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
1) that would not be a full refund 2) the items being refunded, were used to acquire your SP. Giving an even bigger advantage to beta testers.
If you want your AUR & items back, then give the SP you earned with them back as well. No one is getting both, & anyone who expected to keep there SP & get their AUR reset, is delusional at best. CCP is honoring both there agreements with merc pack buyers & closed beta testers. They gave you the option now choose. |
Jotun Hiem
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
581
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? Except they haven't.
The contract states that the content of the merc pack will be credited to your account on full release.
If you have all the things you bought in the merc back, then it's been credited to your account. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2677
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
So, basically, the suggestion I've been trying to push for all along?
+1 to OP because he's agreeing with what I've kept saying every single time this discussion came up.
Also, just to clarify some points for you guys, here's the FULL text on the Merc Pack description as agreed at the time I purchased mine:
Quote:*IMPORTANT NOTICE: During beta periods, CCP may need to reset characters, skills and other items included in the DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack. DUST 514-« Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted. Now lets focus on why I think the current "solution" is really strongly against what was agreed to.
Quote:No other form of refund is permitted. That was obviously put there to avoid customers trying to change the deal, but CCP are overlooking the fact that it ALSO PREVENTS THEM FROM CHANGING THE DEAL. |
Gemini Reynolds
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again?
Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: entitled
Found your problem. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1411
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gemini Reynolds wrote:Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Please tell me why anyone would give money to CCP ever again? Smooth Head wrote:So you are basically saying CCP has lied, thumbed their nose at the agreement they authored and the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: the only option anyone has is to accept less that what they are entitled to.
Smooth Head wrote: entitled Found your problem.
Only a problem if you are wrong. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. |
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Smooth Head
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. And CCP never get another cent.
Just bad word of mouth to every gamer they know and social media site they visit. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Smooth Head wrote:Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. And CCP never get another cent. Just bad word of mouth to every gamer they know and social media site they visit.
And those who support CCP will counter in kind. There is no point in this debate. The decision is final. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:21:00 -
[24] - Quote
FYI:
For those of you who are planning to do a credit card charge back against CCP, please keep in mind that banks have certain restrictions that can limit your charge back requests. Best case scenario, they might go ahead and process your request. Worst case scenario, your own bank might accuse you of fraud. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
214
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff.
Nah, ill just get Gamestop to issue me additional merc packs, since CCP didnt live up to the language. Then ill contact Sony for the ones i bought prior to the change in language. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organization
2189
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Dexter307 wrote:You lost, just stop it, you dont get free stuff. Nah, ill just get Gamestop to issue me additional merc packs, since CCP didnt live up to the language. Then ill contact Sony for the ones i bought prior to the change in language.
When release date comes and goes, let me know how it turns out. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2677
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 02:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. What's been decided by CCP has been "finalised" but also leaves them wide open to perfectly-valid complaints of not honouring the terms agreed to in the Merc Pack.
Which means the discussion is still open until it actually happens. And even then, the way is open for further complaints. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing. Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing. I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. The offer I propose is a compromise which I believe we can all live with.
if you had an idea, you should have brought it up a month ago when ccp was asking what a good solution was. the OP sounds like QQing to me, but then every aurum warrior sounds like a qqer... |
First Prophet
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
62
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Look, most of us are just happy CCP found a way to let us keep our SP. Presumably the "SP sink" people are complaining about is how we can keep our SP and coexist with the presumed influx of new players.
If you don't want to keep your SP -- then so be it. That's the choice I expect most of us will make. What that really means is that CCP has made a more attractive offer than getting your refund during the commercial release reset.
However, don't let that stop you from QQing. Did you even read the OP? I'm not QQing, I'm offering a solution to the QQing. I doubt anyone wants a full reset at launch. I do. Been wanting it since closed beta. |
NeoWraith Acedia
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
145
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:What's been decided by CCP has been finalized. Besides, if you ever took the time to purchase all of the militia BPOs when they were dirt cheap (about 50-100 AUR) then you will get a huge influx of extra (FREE) AUR refunded to you anyways. What's been decided by CCP has been "finalised" but also leaves them wide open to perfectly-valid complaints of not honouring the terms agreed to in the Merc Pack. Which means the discussion is still open until it actually happens. And even then, the way is open for further complaints.
Quote:Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514-« account after each character reset and for the commercial release. CCP cannot guarantee all items will be identical and reserves the right to substitute items of similar value. No other form of refund is permitted.
But this isn't a different "form of refund", the merc pack will be credited in full for release, just like the original agreement says. They have followed that agreement to the letter, nowhere does it say they can't reset characters. |
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