Given that sharpshooter is no longer going to add range, I dont see these nerfs as necessary. All it needed was quicker heat buildup. I guess me and everyone else gonan roll logi bros?

Because CCP only listen to the COD crybabies.
That's why tanks, dropships, hmgs, lasers and generallt anything not-assault-rifle is being nerfed repeatedly.

I wanted to play this game because "it was different" but with every expansion it become more and more a generic fps.

From what I read in the DEV blog the Sharpshooter skill will be removed for all classes/weapons nerfing the HMG still gives the AR users an advantage.

Remember the Heavy is much MUCH slower than any other class. Requiring heavies to get into mid/close range to be effective is asinine. Heavies are much to slow for this.

Remember they not only nerfed HMG damage, but also HMG range!

As it stands now the base stats of AR vs. HMG standard variants:

.....................AR................................HMG

Damage.......31.0 HP........................16.0 HP

RoF..............750.0 RPM...................2000.0 RPM

Accuracy......56.0..............................61.5

DPS.............387.5 HP/s...................533.3 HP/s

For the prototype weapons:


....................AR (Duvolle)...............HMG (Boundless)

Damage......34.1 HP........................17.6 HP

RoF.............750.0 RPM...................2000.0 RPM

Accuracy.....57.2..............................61.5

DPS............715 HP/s......................586.6 HP/s

So let me get this right AR users can out maneuver Heavies and do almost 200 HP/s more damage than the heavy...nullifying the heavy's higher shield and armor rating at prototype level BEFORE the heavy takes a damage and range nerf.

So when the AR user gets the drop on a heavy[which happens quite often], the heavy is done before he can even turn around. After nerf AR users won't even need the element of surprise.

I think we all know what truly needs a nerf here!

not to be the bad new bear but I think you did you math wrong for the duvolle. I only got 426.2 HP/s working the stats from above.

mag size, HP and close up DPS... well you are slow so the makes you an ideal guard. if your guarding an area and you let people sneak up behind you it does not matter you should pay for it and you are doing bad at guarding. so the point is not valid be hey its a nice little look into the matter for new players to think about before getting to much sp wasted.

corrected in post thanks for catching that...my opinion still remains the same

By the time you factor in bullet spread at max range the AR OPs the HMG

factor in the speed of assault class vs heavy class and heavies do not stand a chance.

HP? Say about 1k at proto lvl that translates to about 2.25 seconds against a duvolle at max range with no damage mods. Keep in mind the HMG operation skill only decreases heat build up making it lose accuracy at a slightly lower rate, but still less accurate the longer the trigger is held. AR operation directly decreases dispersion and kick making them more accurate at max range with no game mechanic to counter this. Meanwhile HMG gets less acurate as heat builds up. That HMG DPS is assuming all 2000 rounds hit the target which just doesn't happen because of the speed of the lighter class dropsuits combined with the bullet spread of the HMG.

Now take into account that strafing while shooting will be possible after Uprising making it even harder for us heavies to hit assaults on the move while their accuracy stays pretty much dead on if they are worth their weight.

Overall more AR bullets hit target dealing more damage.

More often than not as a heavy I will be fending off multiple hostiles while one assault or a shotgun scout sneaks up behind me. Great tactics on their part...but with the low movement speed of a heavy combined with the high DPS of the AR or Shotgun Heavies do not stand a chance.

Could this be a case of balancing for the future? Were the changes made to balance the HMG paired with with a Minmatar Heavy frame? Or Caldari, or Gallente Heavy frame?

Are CCP just trying to let everyone down slowly? What if they had left it as is only to have to nerf it in some future update after another rash of OMG Heavy so OP!!! Threads.

Me, I kind of miss the heavies with HMGs from replication. Now those were some Mother HMG Heavies.

That really needs to come back. The idea of a class that requires teamwork to take down was a breath of fresh air missing from the FPS experience.

1400hp lol only if I want to move as fast as a tree. AR users would dance circles around me.

I remain firm Heavies did not need want or deserve a nerf.

How many maps allow a heavy to "force" cqc? Almost every map is wide open spaces and those that aren't have elevated areas where light infantry can easily gain the upper hand. In the few tight squeeze spots there are it usually ends up being heavy vs heavy.

I feel sorry that you can not force your enemies into cqc and that is totally false, most maps have a lot of cqc areas and it seems like your getting out played by other heavies who know what they are doing.

Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now.

Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes.

Exactly!
I remember when people saw a heavy the were like: "Oh ****! It's a heavy! I need some help over here!" that person regrouped with their squad and worked together taking him out. If that same person saw a heavy now it's more like: "Oh, it's a heavy lol." Dakka! Dakka! dead without a change in tactics and guns them down toe-to-toe without much of an afterthought. What happened to balance?

aim....

aim....

Dear Madame or Sir it is fairly obvious at this point that you have completely run out of legitimate arguments. I have used the AR it is the most accurate full auto weapon and takes no skill to hit a guy in a fat suit with it...even when firing from the hip.

I suspect you are trying to get under my skin by arguing with such persistence, however I must inform you that you will not succeed. I stand firm nerfing the heavy was Wrong on the part of CCP.

I am, however dedicated to my role as a heavy and will continue to specialize in that role. I will adapt I will destroy I will not fade quietly into Dust the roar of my HMG will be heard and when you see me on the field of battle you will know I am a force to be reckoned with.

They should have left the HMG base stats alone or made them just a bit more powerful for use against vehicles.

This, or you are playing devil's advocate to keep this thread alive because you believe in the cause.

In which case I would thank you!

that's like saying I kill a newberry, of course you can, pretty much all the vets can. its never been the type of suit its the person using it and how they use it.

Right, and how they're going to be used is heading south right now. Over the course of every build, heavies have been getting reduced to large hitboxes that throw out spitballs. Now even the newbies will have their chance to go toe-to-toe with a heavy without breaking a sweat as long as they play AR Assault. Also, when they can easily dispatch a heavy by themselves, they'll never get beaten by one until they have to learn how to counter them, or they'll never be inspired to play one themselves.

You're into HAV right? What if they didn't allow HAV in pubs anymore? Newbies would never get the practice in how to take you out for FW/PC or never be inspired to give HAV a try themselves. Nerfing the heavy into obscurity is going to have the same effect. Why play as one whey all they do is get killed by AR assaults every day?

It is clear what people like ladwar want.

The heavy should be nothing but pure defense, sitting on points and hoping someone wanders into range.

Here is the problem with that, the base heavy has the highest scan profile in the game, it also moves very slowly. Now I'm all for defending, but no smart player attack a point lone wolf style. It is always in groups. The heavy dropsuit cannot tank worth a damn and will be demolished by two people who can easily flake him because their suit show up late on his map while his shines like a star.

You want Heavy to be a mobile turret? The buff the hell out of his base HP so he can actually tank some damage. You cry "he has like 1400 armor" well that is what? A mag of AR ammo or 3 shotgun rounds? That is not very tanky at all, I don't give a **** about how "skilled" you see other heavies being, they cannot deal with two competent AR users attacking them with slight coordination.

Sure he might kill one by focusing fire on him, but the other will just finish him off and rez his bro.

OF COURSE THE HMG NERF IS NECESSARY!! Nothing should compete with the AR . nothing has never, EVER been anywere close to matching an AR in well, any category in war. So the HMG should be nerfed so it continues to be the best

lol spoken like a true AR using QQer

You must have had to listen to this type of b.s. a lot longer than I to make it sound so believable coming from you.

While I do agree that HMGs needed no nerfing, I do not wish to be upstaged by my own feelings of being slighted. So in short (and with no whining); As a HMG I frequently find myself needing to get within shotgun range of enemies to really do my HMG thing. Which is totally fine, personally I think HMGs should possess more range simply due to the fact that when the barrel overheats it actually warps and accuracy should go down with more spin, not up. That is silly. If you would simply look at the Minigun in military helicopters my point is made. Helicopters use (what should be considered incredibly low-tech versions) of the heavy dropsuit deployed HMG, yet they use it to attack ground forces from the sky. That requires serious range and accuracy. Despite this misgiving I would have been happy if CCP just increased the damage to compensate for the fact that it is called a "Heavy" Machine Gun. Thus implying higher caliber, more barrels and more rounds. Due to it's incredibly poor range I have found myself getting shot to death by advanced level ARs even in proto heavy dropsuits with a proto HMG. It's not the range really that's the issue (but if the HMG range would be increased and the trade off would be increase dispersion rate with increase heat build-up cause that's how barrels and bullets actually work, that would be fine) but more the damage output. There is no reason an AR should kill a heavy dropsuit faster than a HMG can kill an assault dropsuit and yes this example takes place at HMG effective range. I'm sure I'm not the only HMG who has lost an HMG duel with an assault dropsuit toting an AR.

Personally the best fix for the HMG I could think of is 1)increase damage so that it does in fact deal more damage than ARs of the equivalent level, 2)increase the maximum range of the HMG, thusly doing the first thing, or 3) make the HMG AR accurate with it's opening spooling and the accuracy go down with increased heat build-up (which is how real guns work).

It is clear what people like ladwar want.

The heavy should be nothing but pure defense, sitting on points and hoping someone wanders into range.

Here is the problem with that, the base heavy has the highest scan profile in the game, it also moves very slowly. Now I'm all for defending, but no smart player attack a point lone wolf style. It is always in groups. The heavy dropsuit cannot tank worth a damn and will be demolished by two people who can easily flake him because their suit show up late on his map while his shines like a star.

You want Heavy to be a mobile turret? The buff the hell out of his base HP so he can actually tank some damage. You cry "he has like 1400 armor" well that is what? A mag of AR ammo or 3 shotgun rounds? That is not very tanky at all, I don't give a **** about how "skilled" you see other heavies being, they cannot deal with two competent AR users attacking them with slight coordination.

Sure he might kill one by focusing fire on him, but the other will just finish him off and rez his bro.

Whoa whoa whoa... Someone is talking about going back to the Replication build's Heavies?

Again, I'm all in favor for Heavies... but how many of you were actually there during the Replication build?

Replication-era Heavies were OP.
Yeah, it took teamwork to take down, A heavy, BUT... (and this is a really BIG BUT), when you faced a TEAM of Heavies, your team was guaranteed to lose.

You know what it's like fighting against a tank, but no one on your team has any AV...? Yeah... facing 4 Replication-build Heavies was worse. A squad of them would take down your whole team, guaranteed. Unless you had some Heavies of your own.
I DO NOT agree with the severity of the nerf imposed on the Heavies back then, but they had to be toned down a little bit.
A LITTLE bit. Instead, CCP bashed them down too much (Just like with the Tactical AR).
Took 4 full-auto ARs, to have a good CHANCE at taking one down. Don't even bother asking your snipers for support, we couldn't touch them.

Really guys, don't cry foul about this until Uprising is actually here.

If you played the game when we first came to TQ, everyone had a clean slate, and the game was quite balanced. The imbalances started happening when everyone started going into Sharpshooter again.

Sharpshooter is at the core of the imbalance of the Chromosome build.
Taste Uprising... and see that it is good... Just be patient. Literally, ONE more day.
Surely, you can stop seething with hatred for 24 hours guys...

Is CCP even reading this?

nope.
but they did over do the nerf a bit to much.

We heavies were barely acceptable before, now we're straight USELESS.

Given that sharpshooter is no longer going to add range, I dont see these nerfs as necessary. All it needed was quicker heat buildup. I guess me and everyone else gonan roll logi bros?