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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
427
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Posted - 2013.05.04 09:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Martin0 Brancaleone wrote:Because CCP only listen to the COD crybabies. That's why tanks, dropships, hmgs, lasers and generallt anything not-assault-rifle is being nerfed repeatedly.
I wanted to play this game because "it was different" but with every expansion it become more and more a generic fps. QFT!
It seems like AR assaults get catered to more and more in this game while anything that has the potential to be an effective counter to them get's nerfed to novelty. Welcome to Assault 514, another generic shooter dressed up with an excel sheet that doesn't matter because 4 bullets from a Duvolle will kill you no matter how much of a shield/armor buffer you have. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
454
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Posted - 2013.05.05 01:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:From what I read in the DEV blog the Sharpshooter skill will be removed for all classes/weapons nerfing the HMG still gives the AR users an advantage.
Remember the Heavy is much MUCH slower than any other class. Requiring heavies to get into mid/close range to be effective is asinine. Heavies are much to slow for this.
Remember they not only nerfed HMG damage, but also HMG range!
As it stands now the base stats of AR vs. HMG standard variants:
.....................AR................................HMG
Damage.......31.0 HP........................16.0 HP
RoF..............750.0 RPM...................2000.0 RPM
Accuracy......56.0..............................61.5
DPS.............387.5 HP/s...................533.3 HP/s
For the prototype weapons:
....................AR (Duvolle)...............HMG (Boundless)
Damage......34.1 HP........................17.6 HP
RoF.............750.0 RPM...................2000.0 RPM
Accuracy.....57.2..............................61.5
DPS............715 HP/s......................586.6 HP/s
So let me get this right AR users can out maneuver Heavies and do almost 200 HP/s more damage than the heavy...nullifying the heavy's higher shield and armor rating at prototype level BEFORE the heavy takes a damage and range nerf.
So when the AR user gets the drop on a heavy[which happens quite often], the heavy is done before he can even turn around. After nerf AR users won't even need the element of surprise.
I think we all know what truly needs a nerf here! And on top of that, the HMG only does ~80% of its base damage to shields. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
454
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Posted - 2013.05.05 03:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:ladwar wrote:not to be the bad new bear but I think you did you math wrong for the duvolle. I only got 426.2 HP/s working the stats from above. corrected in post thanks for catching that...my opinion still remains the same By the time you factor in bullet spread at max range the AR OPs the HMG factor in the speed of assault class vs heavy class and heavies do not stand a chance. Anyone remember when scouts used to be the effective counters to heavies and not assaults? |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
455
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Posted - 2013.05.05 04:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aighun wrote:Could this be a case of balancing for the future? Were the changes made to balance the HMG paired with with a Minmatar Heavy frame? Or Caldari, or Gallente Heavy frame?
Are CCP just trying to let everyone down slowly? What if they had left it as is only to have to nerf it in some future update after another rash of OMG Heavy so OP!!! Threads.
Me, I kind of miss the heavies with HMGs from replication. Now those were some Mother HMG Heavies. That really needs to come back. The idea of a class that requires teamwork to take down was a breath of fresh air missing from the FPS experience. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
455
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Posted - 2013.05.05 05:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:1400hp lol only if I want to move as fast as a tree. AR users would dance circles around me.
I remain firm Heavies did not need want or deserve a nerf.
How many maps allow a heavy to "force" cqc? Almost every map is wide open spaces and those that aren't have elevated areas where light infantry can easily gain the upper hand. In the few tight squeeze spots there are it usually ends up being heavy vs heavy. I feel sorry that you can not force your enemies into cqc and that is totally false, most maps have a lot of cqc areas and it seems like your getting out played by other heavies who know what they are doing. Skill is one thing, but losing tools to be able to perform skillfully is another. Some people can do it, and some will still be able to do it after uprising, but look at how many other classes are able to perform their role without having their tools taken away that aren't AR assaults. Maybe CCP is trying to force heavies into a more specific role, but give them the tools to do so, not take them away. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
455
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Posted - 2013.05.05 05:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote: Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now.
Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes. Exactly! I remember when people saw a heavy the were like: "Oh ****! It's a heavy! I need some help over here!" that person regrouped with their squad and worked together taking him out. If that same person saw a heavy now it's more like: "Oh, it's a heavy lol." Dakka! Dakka! dead without a change in tactics and guns them down toe-to-toe without much of an afterthought. What happened to balance? |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
455
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Posted - 2013.05.05 05:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Cosgar wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote: Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now.
Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes. Exactly! I remember when people saw a heavy the were like: "Oh ****! It's a heavy! I need some help over here!" that person regrouped with their squad and worked together taking him out. If that same person saw a heavy now it's more like: "Oh, it's a heavy lol." Dakka! Dakka! dead without a change in tactics and guns them down toe-to-toe without much of an afterthought. What happened to balance? aim.... You know I'm not a heavy right? I've sided with heavies because honestly, they're too easy to kill. There's no sense of accomplishment when you kill one. Hell, CCP has made it so easy, I'll probably be able to do it without even aiming. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
458
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Posted - 2013.05.05 07:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
ladwar wrote:that's like saying I kill a newberry, of course you can, pretty much all the vets can. its never been the type of suit its the person using it and how they use it. Right, and how they're going to be used is heading south right now. Over the course of every build, heavies have been getting reduced to large hitboxes that throw out spitballs. Now even the newbies will have their chance to go toe-to-toe with a heavy without breaking a sweat as long as they play AR Assault. Also, when they can easily dispatch a heavy by themselves, they'll never get beaten by one until they have to learn how to counter them, or they'll never be inspired to play one themselves.
You're into HAV right? What if they didn't allow HAV in pubs anymore? Newbies would never get the practice in how to take you out for FW/PC or never be inspired to give HAV a try themselves. Nerfing the heavy into obscurity is going to have the same effect. Why play as one whey all they do is get killed by AR assaults every day? |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
475
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Posted - 2013.05.05 22:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
So after sleeping on the topic of what may or may not look like a nerf, I've come to a conclusion:
The information is too vague to have a conclusion
Just about everything in the patch notes is too vague to get a proper impression on what's to come. Maybe they're trying to shoehorn heavies into a specified role, maybe there's a skill or future dropsuit bonus to the suit that might be coming soonGäó that's going to buff the HMG and they had to lower the base range and damage to compensate. Or maybe this is just an outright nerf and another step in the direction to AR 514. We don't know yet. Because the patch notes are so vague and there's no dev that was readily available, all we have to go on is speculation and history which leads to us thinking the worse. Patch notes are one thing, but without any indication on why changes are being made, in this case the HMG, more damage has been done than the intended help of giving information. Instead the answer only raised more questions and provoked knee jerk reaction. We all love our diverse roles and any hint of negativity was going to stir up this kind of rage, it was inevitable. But without someone doing damage control to explain why something is going to be the way it is, we have the mess that's going on right now. It's not fair for us as the players when there isn't a shred of communication when we need it the most. |
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