DUST Search - HMG nerfs really necessary?

Master Jaraiya wrote:

ladwar wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Master Jaraiya wrote:

Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now.

Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes.

Exactly!
I remember when people saw a heavy the were like: "Oh ****! It's a heavy! I need some help over here!" that person regrouped with their squad and worked together taking him out. If that same person saw a heavy now it's more like: "Oh, it's a heavy lol." Dakka! Dakka! dead without a change in tactics and guns them down toe-to-toe without much of an afterthought. What happened to balance?

aim....

Dear Madame or Sir it is fairly obvious at this point that you have completely run out of legitimate arguments. I have used the AR it is the most accurate full auto weapon and takes no skill to hit a guy in a fat suit with it...even when firing from the hip.

I suspect you are trying to get under my skin by arguing with such persistence, however I must inform you that you will not succeed. I stand firm nerfing the heavy was Wrong on the part of CCP.

I am, however dedicated to my role as a heavy and will continue to specialize in that role. I will adapt I will destroy I will not fade quietly into Dust the roar of my HMG will be heard and when you see me on the field of battle you will know I am a force to be reckoned with.


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Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.04 13:13:00 - [1] - Quote + 1 To this thread If anything the HMG should do MORE damage. Able to stand against vehicles? Hardly! It is only because the idiot assault guys who think they should be able to go toe to toe with a heavy and are butt hurt because they cant...well not till the 6th at least! To make matters worse the heavies get absolutely NO racial suit variants NO new weapons. Ooh but we get a suit with like 75 extra hp...so the duval will kill us with 5 bullets instead of 4. Oh golly gee whitakers thank you CCP. Ooh but they made the heavy's equip. cheaper...because they know we will be getting killed A LOT more. AR can out range us and do more damage. I have a solution for CCP. keep HMG's damage and range as is and add a disorienting suppression effect to our bullets. A guy with an AR shouldn't be able to see to shoot me if I'm spraying him in the face at the rate of 2000 to 4000 rpm! In my opinion a heavy should be a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. One should see a heavy and run for cover and fast. Stop listening to the crybabies that thing this game should be like every other and make it what it is supposed to be.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.05 00:06:00 - [2] - Quote From what I read in the DEV blog the Sharpshooter skill will be removed for all classes/weapons nerfing the HMG still gives the AR users a range advantage. Remember the Heavy is much MUCH slower than any other class. Requiring heavies to get into shotgun range to be effective is asinine. Heavies are much to slow for this. Remember they not only nerfed HMG damage, but also HMG range! As it stands now the base stats of AR vs. HMG standard variants: AR HMG Damage 31.0 HP 16.0 HP RoF 750.0 RPM 2000.0 RPM Accuracy 56.0 61.5 DPS 387.5 HP/s 533.3 HP/s For the prototype weapons: AR (Duvolle) HMG (Boundless) Damage 34.1 HP 17.6 HP RoF 750.0 RPM 2000.0 RPM Accuracy 57.2 61.5 DPS 715 HP/s 586.6 HP/s So let me get this right AR users can out maneuver Heavies and do almost 200 HP/s more damage than the heavy...nullifying the heavy's higher shield and armor rating at prototype level BEFORE the heavy takes a damage and range nerf. So when the AR user gets the drop on a heavy[which happens quite often], the heavy is done before he can even turn around. I think we all know what truly needs a nerf here!
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.05 02:04:00 - [3] - Quote ladwar wrote: not to be the bad new bear but I think you did you math wrong for the duvolle. I only got 426.2 HP/s working the stats from above. corrected in post thanks for catching that...my opinion still remains the same By the time you factor in bullet spread at max range the AR OPs the HMG factor in the speed of assault class vs heavy class and heavies do not stand a chance.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.05 02:59:00 - [4] - Quote ladwar wrote: mag size, HP and close up DPS... well you are slow so the makes you an ideal guard. if your guarding an area and you let people sneak up behind you it does not matter you should pay for it and you are doing bad at guarding. so the point is not valid be hey its a nice little look into the matter for new players to think about before getting to much sp wasted. HP? Say about 1k at proto lvl that translates to about 2.25 seconds against a duvolle at max range with no damage mods. Keep in mind the HMG operation skill only decreases heat build up making it slightly more accurate, but still less accurate the longer the trigger is held. AR operation directly decreases dispersion and kick making them more accurate at max range with no game mechanic to counter this. Meanwhile HMG gets less acurate as heat builds up. That HMG DPS is assuming all 2000 rounds hit the target which just doesn't happen because of the speed of the lighter class dropsuits combined with the bullet spread of the HMG. Now take into account that strafing while shooting will be possible after Uprising making it even harder for us heavies to hit assaults on the move while their accuracy stays pretty much dead on if they are worth their weight. Overall more AR bullets hit target dealing more damage. More often than not as a heavy I will be fending off multiple hostiles while one assault or a shotgun scout sneaks up behind me. Great tactics on their part...but with the low movement speed of a heavy combined with the high DPS of the AR or Shotgun Heavies do not stand a chance.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:01:00 - [5] - Quote 1400hp lol only if I want to move as fast as a tree. AR users would dance circles around me. I remain firm Heavies did not need want or deserve a nerf. How many maps allow a heavy to "force" cqc? Almost every map is wide open spaces and those that aren't have elevated areas where light infantry can easily gain the upper hand. In the few tight squeeze spots there are it usually ends up being heavy vs heavy.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:38:00 - [6] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Aighun wrote: Could this be a case of balancing for the future? Were the changes made to balance the HMG paired with with a Minmatar Heavy frame? Or Caldari, or Gallente Heavy frame? Are CCP just trying to let everyone down slowly? What if they had left it as is only to have to nerf it in some future update after another rash of OMG Heavy so OP!!! Threads. Me, I kind of miss the heavies with HMGs from replication. Now those were some Mother HMG Heavies. That really needs to come back. The idea of a class that requires teamwork to take down was a breath of fresh air missing from the FPS experience. Yes this Two fine examples of heavy infantry can be found in Army of Two 40th day and Rage they required special skill and tactics to take down not simple 1 Mabey 2 guys with an OP AR
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 3	Posted - 2013.05.05 04:52:00 - [7] - Quote Lol that's right start trying to insult my skill in the game now that I have defeated all of your logically based arguments in defense of the nerf. Just admit that this nerf was a bad idea in acquiescence of all the AR using QQers and you would save face.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 05:31:00 - [8] - Quote Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now. Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:06:00 - [9] - Quote ladwar wrote: Cosgar wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now. Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes. Exactly! I remember when people saw a heavy the were like: "Oh ****! It's a heavy! I need some help over here!" that person regrouped with their squad and worked together taking him out. If that same person saw a heavy now it's more like: "Oh, it's a heavy lol." Dakka! Dakka! dead without a change in tactics and guns them down toe-to-toe without much of an afterthought. What happened to balance? aim.... Dear Madame or Sir it is fairly obvious at this point that you have completely run out of legitimate arguments. I have used the AR it is the most accurate full auto weapon and takes no skill to hit a guy in a fat suit with it...even when firing from the hip. I suspect you are trying to get under my skin by arguing with such persistence, however I must inform you that you will not succeed. I stand firm nerfing the heavy was Wrong on the part of CCP. I am, however dedicated to my role as a heavy and will continue to specialize in that role. I will adapt I will destroy I will not fade quietly into Dust the roar of my HMG will be heard and when you see me on the field of battle you will know I am a force to be reckoned with.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:32:00 - [10] - Quote Well acording to the DEV blog the only other weapon stat change is the Tactical AR variant is receiving a buff to damage. The Sharpshooter skill is being taken out completely so that effects all weapons equaly, but the HMG is hit with a Base range and damage nerf. Unless there is something I'm missing... I'm not moving from my stance. They should have left the HMG base stats alone or made them just a bit more powerful for use against vehicles.

Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:38:00 - [11] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: ladwar wrote: Cosgar wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: Yes I too kill proto light infantry with my all militia heavy fit firing a STD HMG. I also take out some proto heavies in the same fit. I am able to do this defending or assaulting an objective because of my skill and tactics combined with having the proper gear for the job. Nerfing the HMG is taking away the gear I need to continue to do my job as well as I do now. Though I must say as of now I would rather face a Heavy with a boundless than a light infantry with a duvolle because more often than not the duvolle stands a better chance of taking me out and I really think that speaks volumes. Exactly! I remember when people saw a heavy the were like: "Oh ****! It's a heavy! I need some help over here!" that person regrouped with their squad and worked together taking him out. If that same person saw a heavy now it's more like: "Oh, it's a heavy lol." Dakka! Dakka! dead without a change in tactics and guns them down toe-to-toe without much of an afterthought. What happened to balance? aim.... Dear Madame or Sir it is fairly obvious at this point that you have completely run out of legitimate arguments. I have used the AR it is the most accurate full auto weapon and takes no skill to hit a guy in a fat suit with it...even when firing from the hip. I suspect you are trying to get under my skin by arguing with such persistence, however I must inform you that you will not succeed. I stand firm nerfing the heavy was Wrong on the part of CCP. I am, however dedicated to my role as a heavy and will continue to specialize in that role. I will adapt I will destroy I will not fade quietly into Dust the roar of my HMG will be heard and when you see me on the field of battle you will know I am a force to be reckoned with. This, or you are playing devil's advocate to keep Thu thrashing alive because you believe in the cause. In which case I would thank you!
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 4	Posted - 2013.05.05 06:52:00 - [12] - Quote I knew I was quoting myself...I had something to add to that thought. Sorry if I used improper etiquette in doing so.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 5	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:17:00 - [13] - Quote Big miku wrote: It is clear what people like ladwar want. The heavy should be nothing but pure defense, sitting on points and hoping someone wanders into range. Here is the problem with that, the base heavy has the highest scan profile in the game, it also moves very slowly. Now I'm all for defending, but no smart player attack a point lone wolf style. It is always in groups. The heavy dropsuit cannot tank worth a damn and will be demolished by two people who can easily flake him because their suit show up late on his map while his shines like a star. You want Heavy to be a mobile turret? The buff the hell out of his base HP so he can actually tank some damage. You cry "he has like 1400 armor" well that is what? A mag of AR ammo or 3 shotgun rounds? That is not very tanky at all, I don't give a **** about how "skilled" you see other heavies being, they cannot deal with two competent AR users attacking them with slight coordination. Sure he might kill one by focusing fire on him, but the other will just finish him off and rez his bro. This...every time!
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 5	Posted - 2013.05.05 14:54:00 - [14] - Quote Exmaple Core wrote: OF COURSE THE HMG NERF IS NECESSARY!! Nothing should compete with the AR . nothing has never, EVER been anywere close to matching an AR in well, any category in war. So the HMG should be nerfed so it continues to be the best lol spoken like a true AR using QQer You must have had to listen to this type of b.s. a lot longer than I to make it sound so believable coming from you.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 8	Posted - 2013.05.07 00:35:00 - [15] - Quote Constructive criticism ONLY. Don't even sound like you are giong to sound like you want to cry! it is the ONLY way to fix the heavy: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=73235&find=unread not saying anyone here is crying because the HMG is a legitimate complaint however it is expressed and I think CCP knows it!
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 8	Posted - 2013.05.07 01:16:00 - [16] - Quote Very well spoken.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp Orion Empire 9	Posted - 2013.05.07 02:34:00 - [17] - Quote ladwar wrote: 137H4RGIC wrote: Is CCP even reading this? nope. but they did over do the nerf a bit to much. Especially considering it didn't need a nerf in the first place