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Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 610	Posted - 2013.04.22 14:54:00 - [31] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Right, cause balancing a game for the top .1% of the player base is the way to make the game a success. Sorry, but your pub stomping isnt the point of this game. But keep padding those stats to make yourself feel good. Right, cause we should balance it so that the bottom 47%, e.g. you, never has to feel like losers.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 90	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:17:00 - [32] - Quote Look, I feel like a loser ALL the time, one time I was playing the monopoly game at mcdonalds and I got parkplace and not boardwalk, it was the worst. But ya know what, those large fries were still delicious. It doesnt change the fact a good squad supporting a decent tanker absolutely wrecks AV. ISK lost, versus ISK destroyed on even bad tankers is probably positive right now. Tanks can handle a ton of fire from even highly speced AV compared to the amount of damage proto suits can take. I could spend hundreds of thousands of ISK on a proto assault, and it wouldnt save me from a well placed Thale shot. Or god forbit, a coordinated squad of free militia snipers! Tankers act like because of the ISK and SP investment they should be immortal, when thats not how it works anywhere else in the game. On the ground, in the air, in LAVs, everyone else is super fragile no matter how much money or SP is dumped at shields and armor. So why can't tankers handle it? Despite the fact it requires way more to take them down, comparitively?
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 31	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:18:00 - [33] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Right, cause balancing a game for the top .1% of the player base is the way to make the game a success. Sorry, but your pub stomping isnt the point of this game. But keep padding those stats to make yourself feel good. As someone who has been gaming for longer than most of you have been born I have seen what the input of Randoms has done to Competitive Play. DCUO went from OK to Epc Fail b/c it shared your ideology. FPS/TPS (3PS) have done nothing but decrease in Quality over time (IE Socom 4 & MGO2). Why is Balancing so much better in Fighters??? B/C Seth Killian faps to watching Justin Wong & Daigo under a Microscope??? B/C DUSTloop Forums have people w/ more braincells than the CoDCloners who hop on here??? If I cared about Stat Padding I wouldn't run amok in a Free BPO Dropsuit still going Posotive in PUBS (w/ 90% of 10.3KK SP in Tanks) for teh LULZ. If anything the Cannon Fodder Blues & Corpmates soaking in FREE WP for OBs would be considered "Stat Padders"....... But no, b/c I still maintain a Positive KdR & ISK Efficiency while messing around, getting TKed by Scrubs, watching my RDV Driver soak up 250KK ISK (Actual ISK lost to Drunk Pilots), & LOLing as it all happens I am labeled as a Stat Padding .1%er. Compliment Accepted, get good brah :P
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 90	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:23:00 - [34] - Quote Yeah im not sure how else to take a .1% comment other than a compliment. Imperfects are good, I dont know your stats in particular, but I do assume you are probably better than me. Awesome for you. I love the assumption of my skills by you guys though, classy, and im sure very well informed and based on tons of facts. Look, I play tons of FPS, I play them pretty competitively. I know there is a balance between balancing things for top tier play, and everyone else. But all tankers arguments seem to ignore top tier squad support around them. Ive yet to have a tanker explain to me what his squad is doing when packed AV naders get in range? Cause seems to me that takes pretty low level skills to let occur. It doesnt take rocket science to have some precise scanning around a tank, watching for red dots and then jumping on them with ARs that have kill times of half a second...
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 267	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:45:00 - [35] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Yeah im not sure how else to take a .1% comment other than a compliment. Imperfects are good, I dont know your stats in particular, but I do assume you are probably better than me. Awesome for you. I love the assumption of my skills by you guys though, classy, and im sure very well informed and based on tons of facts. Look, I play tons of FPS, I play them pretty competitively. I know there is a balance between balancing things for top tier play, and everyone else. But all tankers arguments seem to ignore top tier squad support around them. Ive yet to have a tanker explain to me what his squad is doing when packed AV naders get in range? Cause seems to me that takes pretty low level skills to let occur. It doesnt take rocket science to have some precise scanning around a tank, watching for red dots and then jumping on them with ARs that have kill times of half a second... They dont need range, all they have to do is launch enough nades and the seeking feature will do the rest Hell ive done it, spawn in a free suit with AV nades run at the tank while the enemy shoot at me, bunny hop around and spam nades What you are talking about is getting the infantry to go in 1st and clear it of enemy infantry then the tank rolls in to do nothing, tha tank should go in 1st and be able to soak up damage and pop a few ppl, not roll in get spammed with AV nades and instanly have to gtfo
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 90	Posted - 2013.04.22 15:51:00 - [36] - Quote Why? Why should the tank be able to roll in by itself when everyone else requires team work? Packed AV nades dont have great range, you need to get close. Standard have better range, but its still way lower than AR. So if you have 3 guys supporting the tank, in the area of the tank, with precise scanning able to pick up a red dot as it comes into AV nade range, that AV unit is dead instantly. Im not syaing the infantry goes in first, im saying they are near by for support, looking out for AV units. Look, if you balance the tank for solo play then when good teams have squads supporting it they will be way OP. If a tank can do what you are suggesting, what happens when a tank DOES roll in with 3 squad mates clearing out any AV that pokes its head out? Your bunny hop nade tactics may work 1 on1 against a bad tank (but even then a good armor tank takes way more than 3 nades, so they have to park their butt next to your nano for this to work.) But you are EASILY murdered by an AR user near by who is watching the tank. Good luck getting off more then 1 or 2 nades.
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 31	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:06:00 - [37] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Yeah im not sure how else to take a .1% comment other than a compliment. Imperfects are good, I dont know your stats in particular, but I do assume you are probably better than me. Awesome for you. I love the assumption of my skills by you guys though, classy, and im sure very well informed and based on tons of facts. Look, I play tons of FPS, I play them pretty competitively. I know there is a balance between balancing things for top tier play, and everyone else. But all tankers arguments seem to ignore top tier squad support around them. Ive yet to have a tanker explain to me what his squad is doing when packed AV naders get in range? Cause seems to me that takes pretty low level skills to let occur. It doesnt take rocket science to have some precise scanning around a tank, watching for red dots and then jumping on them with ARs that have kill times of half a second... This is assuming the AV & Infantry (Or Hybrid since you can hold an AR & AV Nades, get good w/ a Sidearm, or Forge Gun the world) is incompetent on the side of Opposition. Tanks take quite a while to Rep, & even longer to Cooldown, effectively limiting Engagement Frequencies. AV can hop in a Free Lav & wind around a Tank Turret, hop out, & proceed to AV Spam. I respect people that do this as it shows that there are some out there w/ a working Brain. Proto Forge + Height = AV & AI Hell. Even @ Ground Level that 1 Player effectively forces Tanks to hide for the rest of the match, & puts the fear of God into Infantry w/ Black Suits. FG w/ Infantry Support = Tank w/ smaller Hitbox & better Terrain Advantages. Add on an HMG an you have a Blaster Tank that can switch to Rail @ Supply Depot & effectively gain Infinite HP if unchecked. A Heavy in an Adv LAV is scarier than a Tank tbh. Since Tank Treads are apparently just a glorified Pillow after losing the ability to Roadkill.....AV can get in close to give that ChiaPet a Christian SideHug w/ little worry while their Cooldowns are still in effect. It's difficult to Support a Box on Wheels that has to run & hide for most of the fight If even 1 or 2 significant AV Threats are fielded. These are just the few of MANY reasons why PUBBIES have no place in Balancing Table Talk. Once the Situational Awareness increases among the Playerbase, & most of the "Insert AAA FPS Here"tards take their leave, then, & only then may they have a "Meaningful Voice" when it comes to Balancing.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 90	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:14:00 - [38] - Quote Except that forge with infantry support can be sniped in a matter of seconds via one player with a decent sniper and half way decent aim... A heavy in adv LAV is scary (with squad support in the LAV too) but its still 10x more vulnerable while driving than a tank is, and costs almost as much SP/ISK. And once he jumps out, nearby infantry can pelt him before he can get more than a few nades/shots off. Yes, a squad running an advanced LAV capabale of tanking some AV shots itself is the best way to handle a tank, but it requires teamwork, ISK and SP investment, so whats the problem there?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2574	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:25:00 - [39] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: When a militia forge gun is enough to keep my Madrugar retreating like a crying little girl, then there's a problem with my fitting. Fixed. I have a Sica that usually takes 2 - 3 AV guys (or an enemy tank) to get rid of. Forge Guns deal more damage to shields than to armour, meaning that even if I was running the same tier as you, I should be more vulnerable in a shield tank. If I'm running Militia gear that the enemy is better-suited to killing, and I'm still killing someone who makes you "cry like a little girl" when you're running an Advanced version of a better counter to that enemy, there's something wrong on your end. Also, CCP have already confirmed that vehicles are getting a major revamp, so please stop making these threads until we see the changes. Please?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 88	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:36:00 - [40] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: boba's fetta wrote: ill translate op for you all. i dropped a tank into a match i really shouldnt off then i drove off a cliff into a group of enemyies who saw me coming and grabbed there av gear. take tanks out because im bad at driving. Nice grammar Nice full stop. Why are your rage threads always so bad?

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 268	Posted - 2013.04.22 16:51:00 - [41] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Why? Why should the tank be able to roll in by itself when everyone else requires team work? Packed AV nades dont have great range, you need to get close. Standard have better range, but its still way lower than AR. So if you have 3 guys supporting the tank, in the area of the tank, with precise scanning able to pick up a red dot as it comes into AV nade range, that AV unit is dead instantly. Im not syaing the infantry goes in first, im saying they are near by for support, looking out for AV units. Look, if you balance the tank for solo play then when good teams have squads supporting it they will be way OP. If a tank can do what you are suggesting, what happens when a tank DOES roll in with 3 squad mates clearing out any AV that pokes its head out? Your bunny hop nade tactics may work 1 on1 against a bad tank (but even then a good armor tank takes way more than 3 nades, so they have to park their butt next to your nano for this to work.) But you are EASILY murdered by an AR user near by who is watching the tank. Good luck getting off more then 1 or 2 nades. The tank can roll in with a squad, still doesnt stop AV seeking nade spam until they are dead and by the time that happen alot of nades can easily be spammed Going in with a squad means jack ****
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 91	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:02:00 - [42] - Quote How bad is your squad that an AV nade can walk OUT INTO THE OPEN next to a tank, jump around for 3-5 seconds without getting shot to death? Kill times in this game are not that high for infantry, even heavies, especially if 3 dudes are shooting at them? Sorry, but the logic doesnt hold up here, and isnt how it works in practice. You MIGHT be able to get 3 nades off, but you will die and you wont be able to stand on your nano for that 4th without getting killed. Even if the players shooting you are scrubs with militia gear. An entire squad doing it out of an LAV might work, but even then theres a good chance they all die by competant infantry shooting them when they jump out before they can all get their 9 total AV nades (which still might not kill the tank) off. And that requires a squad doing it, using an LAV that has enough into it to survive all the swarmers/forgers looking for easy kills.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2574	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:03:00 - [43] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The tank can roll in with a squad, still doesnt stop AV seeking nade spam until they are dead and by the time that happen alot of nades can easily be spammed Going in with a squad means jack **** Really? So having people who shoot at any enemy approaching grenade range DOESN'T prevent people from getting into grenade range? That's weird, because it usually works fine when I do it (as HAV or infantry)
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 268	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:17:00 - [44] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The tank can roll in with a squad, still doesnt stop AV seeking nade spam until they are dead and by the time that happen alot of nades can easily be spammed Going in with a squad means jack **** Really? So having people who shoot at any enemy approaching grenade range DOESN'T prevent people from getting into grenade range? That's weird, because it usually works fine when I do it (as HAV or infantry) I didnt know you could see through structures
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2574	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:28:00 - [45] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The tank can roll in with a squad, still doesnt stop AV seeking nade spam until they are dead and by the time that happen alot of nades can easily be spammed Going in with a squad means jack **** Really? So having people who shoot at any enemy approaching grenade range DOESN'T prevent people from getting into grenade range? That's weird, because it usually works fine when I do it (as HAV or infantry) I didnt know you could see through structures If you can't see where you're driving your tank, send infantry ahead to clear the route first. Obviously. My Scout suit can see enemies through walls pretty well most of the time.
Bones McGavins TacoCat Industries 91	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:28:00 - [46] - Quote Man that tank is really coordinating well with his squad and has good map awareness if the enemy has awesome flanks around buildings that nobody is watching.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 125	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:33:00 - [47] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Man that tank is really coordinating well with his squad and has good map awareness if the enemy has awesome flanks around buildings that nobody is watching. lol-what-building? Seriously though. I see tanks called in on this map ALL THE TIME.... But I laugh when someone calls in a dropship...
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 269	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:41:00 - [48] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The tank can roll in with a squad, still doesnt stop AV seeking nade spam until they are dead and by the time that happen alot of nades can easily be spammed Going in with a squad means jack **** Really? So having people who shoot at any enemy approaching grenade range DOESN'T prevent people from getting into grenade range? That's weird, because it usually works fine when I do it (as HAV or infantry) I didnt know you could see through structures If you can't see where you're driving your tank, send infantry ahead to clear the route first. Obviously. My Scout suit can see enemies through walls pretty well most of the time. No point sending the tank in then either afterwards, no need for it
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2574	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:43:00 - [49] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Bones McGavins wrote: Man that tank is really coordinating well with his squad and has good map awareness if the enemy has awesome flanks around buildings that nobody is watching. lol-what-building? Seriously though. I see tanks called in on this map ALL THE TIME.... But I laugh when someone calls in a dropship... Rocks Gëê buildings?
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 709	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:50:00 - [50] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: The tank can roll in with a squad, still doesnt stop AV seeking nade spam until they are dead and by the time that happen alot of nades can easily be spammed Going in with a squad means jack **** Really? So having people who shoot at any enemy approaching grenade range DOESN'T prevent people from getting into grenade range? That's weird, because it usually works fine when I do it (as HAV or infantry) I didnt know you could see through structures If you can't see where you're driving your tank, send infantry ahead to clear the route first. Obviously. My Scout suit can see enemies through walls pretty well most of the time. No point sending the tank in then either afterwards, no need for it The infantry will take out the Av, once it's gone you can steamroll over the infantry and unfriendly vehicles.

Rynoceros One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas 14	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:52:00 - [51] - Quote Tanks, they're either OP Pubstompers too susceptible to AV attacks. Sounds balanced.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2574	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:53:00 - [52] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you can't see where you're driving your tank, send infantry ahead to clear the route first. Obviously. My Scout suit can see enemies through walls pretty well most of the time. No point sending the tank in then either afterwards, no need for it Tanks control the open areas, infantry control enclosed spaces. Working as intended. If you need your tank to pass through an enclosed space, send infantry through it first. Clear a path, then use it.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 269	Posted - 2013.04.22 17:59:00 - [53] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you can't see where you're driving your tank, send infantry ahead to clear the route first. Obviously. My Scout suit can see enemies through walls pretty well most of the time. No point sending the tank in then either afterwards, no need for it Tanks control the open areas, infantry control enclosed spaces. Working as intended. If you need your tank to pass through an enclosed space, send infantry through it first. Clear a path, then use it. Rail control open areas Blasters are ment for up close and personal
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 961	Posted - 2013.04.22 18:44:00 - [54] - Quote Have you maybe considered that perhaps those "dead' your speaking for are dead for a reason?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1218	Posted - 2013.04.22 19:14:00 - [55] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: Except that forge with infantry support can be sniped in a matter of seconds via one player with a decent sniper and half way decent aim... A heavy in adv LAV is scary (with squad support in the LAV too) but its still 10x more vulnerable while driving than a tank is, and costs almost as much SP/ISK. And once he jumps out, nearby infantry can pelt him before he can get more than a few nades/shots off. Yes, a squad running an advanced LAV capabale of tanking some AV shots itself is the best way to handle a tank, but it requires teamwork, ISK and SP investment, so whats the problem there? It's pretty obvious the "issue" is that there are counters for his iWin Button that require teamwork and planning to defend against. Tanks are apparently supposed to be the exception to the rule and should be unstoppable killing machines. Duh.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 612	Posted - 2013.04.22 19:48:00 - [56] - Quote Bones McGavins wrote: How bad is your squad that an AV nade can walk OUT INTO THE OPEN next to a tank, jump around for 3-5 seconds without getting shot to death? Kill times in this game are not that high for infantry, even heavies, especially if 3 dudes are shooting at them? If you aren't capable of doing that then perhaps you... just... you know... suck?
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 70	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:07:00 - [57] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Cosgar wrote: Still waiting for an answer, OP... Trying to wriggle away from an answer just cause it wasn't one you liked? No, I'm waiting for Spkr4theDead, the person who started this QQ topic to discuss his SP investment, fitting, to get proper context as to why his tank got blamped so easily. If he had more than 1 mil invested, with core skills maxed, and wasn't going full blaster like a n00b thinking he can be a one man pub stomp, he probably woul've replied by now. Since he hasn't, it's safe to assume that he's the latter: Didn't understand how the skill system works, threw in the prereuisites to get access to HAV and thought he could roll around in god mode. In which case, I'll respond with: Working as intended.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 613	Posted - 2013.04.22 22:13:00 - [58] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Cosgar wrote: Still waiting for an answer, OP... Trying to wriggle away from an answer just cause it wasn't one you liked? No, I'm waiting for Spkr4theDead, the person who started this QQ topic to discuss his SP investment, fitting, to get proper context as to why his tank got blamped so easily. If he had more than 1 mil invested, with core skills maxed, and wasn't going full blaster like a n00b thinking he can be a one man pub stomp, he probably woul've replied by now. Since he hasn't, it's safe to assume that he's the latter: Didn't understand how the skill system works, threw in the prereuisites to get access to HAV and thought he could roll around in god mode. In which case, I'll respond with: Working as intended. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitive_relation I recommend the above article, it's really enlightening.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 272	Posted - 2013.04.23 09:39:00 - [59] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Cosgar wrote: Still waiting for an answer, OP... Trying to wriggle away from an answer just cause it wasn't one you liked? No, I'm waiting for Spkr4theDead, the person who started this QQ topic to discuss his SP investment, fitting, to get proper context as to why his tank got blamped so easily. If he had more than 1 mil invested, with core skills maxed, and wasn't going full blaster like a n00b thinking he can be a one man pub stomp, he probably woul've replied by now. Since he hasn't, it's safe to assume that he's the latter: Didn't understand how the skill system works, threw in the prereuisites to get access to HAV and thought he could roll around in god mode. In which case, I'll respond with: Working as intended. Your wrong He does have all the required skills to drive a Madrugar with the best plates and reppers, i know this because ive basically taught him how to fit one up and it generally the same as my fits that i use Core skills wise i think hes also got it done Plus he mostly specced into proto FG so he knows how easy it is to take out a tank from both AV and a tank stance Chances are he hasnt replied yet is coz he doesnt hang around all day on the forums like you or me Its nice to assume stuff but instead you just made an ass out of u but not me
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2581	Posted - 2013.04.23 09:58:00 - [60] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you can't see where you're driving your tank, send infantry ahead to clear the route first. Obviously. My Scout suit can see enemies through walls pretty well most of the time. No point sending the tank in then either afterwards, no need for it Tanks control the open areas, infantry control enclosed spaces. Working as intended. If you need your tank to pass through an enclosed space, send infantry through it first. Clear a path, then use it. Rail control open areas Blasters are ment for up close and personal Rails stay behind terrain and play pop-up sniper firing into open areas from secure positions. Blasters fight on the front lines, controlling the open areas more directly. BOTH are about controlling the open areas of the map, and BOTH are vulnerable in enclosed areas without infantry support.



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