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[Recommendation] - Make Refunds an Option, Not Mandatory

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Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1994	Posted - 2013.04.16 00:18:00 - [31] - Quote My god. I leave this thread alone for just half a day and this is what I see when I get back? I thought I told all of you folks to keep your flames to a minimum. This thread was a recommendation on what CCP should do in regards to this issue. My recommendation was not in any way shape or form based on biased speculation. It is directly based on the literal interpretations of the merc pack descriptions in question. I am one of those players who don't care about receiving anything in return, but I am also the kind of person who doesn't want to infringe on the rights of other players as consumers. That said, I want to make it absolutely clear to everyone here that nowhere in the description did it state that a reset must occur on refunding for commercial release. The reset part of CCP's obligation has already been satisfied on multiple occasions. All that remains to be met is the commercial release part. CCP had already made it clear that we are not in commercial release and they have retracted any statement about May 6 being the commercial release as well. At least they said not yet. Also, it is not fair to hold a buyer's earnings (in this case their SP) hostage because the customer did not agree to such a term and CCP had already made it clear there will be no such resets in a way that brings them back to being a brand new character. Again, the merc pack description mentions no such thing for commercial release. Again, I'm ok with not getting a refund and CCP go ahead and put a note on their bulletin board saying "Maken doesn't want a refund" for all I care. But I do care about the rights of others as consumers who have been given a certain level of expectation by CCP to not have their SP completely reset in addition to getting the final refund for commercial release. This is not me being greedy. This is me defending the rights of others. I thought about this carefully for the past week or so and this is the only logical conclusion I came up with based on the literal interpretation of the merc pack description as well as official statements posted by CCP.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 149	Posted - 2013.04.16 00:45:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair. I paid my money and you probably did not. Now you are trying to take away from me what's mine and call it fair?
Tidaen Nova Corps Marines 36	Posted - 2013.04.16 00:55:00 - [33] - Quote Agreed with the OP. The 'refund clause' in the merc pack was included to assure players that their purchase would be safe in the event of a reset including the one originally planned for commercial release. Then CCP decided to give the playerbase a big gift and declared that no SP would be reset on release day. In my way of thinking, CCP's decision to let us keep our SP was a nice action that I will respond to with gratitude and happily release them from their agreement to refund the merc pack upon launch. For those people who want CCP to refund their merc packs, I will say that you purchased that merc pack at a time when a launch day reset was expected. If you expect CCP to refund your merc pack, then you should also accept the character reset which the 'refund clause' was intended to PROTECT YOU against. How about this? Why not turn around the idea laid out in the original post. Upon release, have players opt in to waive their refund in return for avoiding a character reset. This way CCP is honoring their original agreement by default but allowing people to keep their characters if they agree to a modified terms of service.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1994	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:02:00 - [34] - Quote Tidaen wrote: Agreed with the OP. The 'refund clause' in the merc pack was included to assure players that their purchase would be safe in the event of a reset including the one originally planned for commercial release. Then CCP decided to give the playerbase a big gift and declared that no SP would be reset on release day. In my way of thinking, CCP's decision to let us keep our SP was a nice action that I will respond to with gratitude and happily release them from their agreement to refund the merc pack upon launch. For those people who want CCP to refund their merc packs, I will say that you purchased that merc pack at a time when a launch day reset was expected. If you expect CCP to refund your merc pack, then you should also accept the character reset which the 'refund clause' was intended to PROTECT YOU against. How about this? Why not turn around the idea laid out in the original post. Upon release, have players opt in to waive their refund in return for avoiding a character reset. This way CCP is honoring their original agreement by default but allowing people to keep their characters if they agree to a modified terms of service. No, that is not what I meant. Did you even read my OP in detail? There was no mention anywhere in the merc pack that CCP would originally reset your SP in the event of commercial release. Commercial release and reset are two separate things that are mutually exclusive as worded by the merc pack during closed beta. Don't twist my words. Where are people getting this idea that a reset was intended for commercial release?
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:24:00 - [35] - Quote JL3Eleven wrote: If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. don't care about level I care about double dipping, If this really is about keeping CCP honest or consumer rights then you would accept the refund with reset. if its about anything else.......
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1132	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:26:00 - [36] - Quote blue gt wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. don't care about level I care about double dipping, If this really is about keeping CCP honest or consumer rights then you would accept the refund with reset. if its about anything else....... Just cuz? Seriously, why would we want to get unfairly reset just to receive the stuff we bought? I don't understand your "logic".
Tidaen Nova Corps Marines 38	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:30:00 - [37] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Tidaen wrote: Agreed with the OP. The 'refund clause' in the merc pack was included to assure players that their purchase would be safe in the event of a reset including the one originally planned for commercial release. Then CCP decided to give the playerbase a big gift and declared that no SP would be reset on release day. In my way of thinking, CCP's decision to let us keep our SP was a nice action that I will respond to with gratitude and happily release them from their agreement to refund the merc pack upon launch. For those people who want CCP to refund their merc packs, I will say that you purchased that merc pack at a time when a launch day reset was expected. If you expect CCP to refund your merc pack, then you should also accept the character reset which the 'refund clause' was intended to PROTECT YOU against. How about this? Why not turn around the idea laid out in the original post. Upon release, have players opt in to waive their refund in return for avoiding a character reset. This way CCP is honoring their original agreement by default but allowing people to keep their characters if they agree to a modified terms of service. No, that is not what I meant. Did you even read my OP in detail? There was no mention anywhere in the merc pack that CCP would originally reset your SP in the event of commercial release. Commercial release and reset are two separate things that are mutually exclusive as worded by the merc pack during closed beta. Don't twist my words. Where are people getting this idea that a reset was intended for commercial release? Apologies, no word twisting was intended. I did indeed read your original post and re-read it again just now. I was under the impression that their would be a character reset upon release until CCP announced that their wouldn't be. This is what I thought the purpose of the 'commercial release' refund was for.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:30:00 - [38] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Tidaen wrote: Agreed with the OP. The 'refund clause' in the merc pack was included to assure players that their purchase would be safe in the event of a reset including the one originally planned for commercial release. Then CCP decided to give the playerbase a big gift and declared that no SP would be reset on release day. In my way of thinking, CCP's decision to let us keep our SP was a nice action that I will respond to with gratitude and happily release them from their agreement to refund the merc pack upon launch. For those people who want CCP to refund their merc packs, I will say that you purchased that merc pack at a time when a launch day reset was expected. If you expect CCP to refund your merc pack, then you should also accept the character reset which the 'refund clause' was intended to PROTECT YOU against. How about this? Why not turn around the idea laid out in the original post. Upon release, have players opt in to waive their refund in return for avoiding a character reset. This way CCP is honoring their original agreement by default but allowing people to keep their characters if they agree to a modified terms of service. No, that is not what I meant. Did you even read my OP in detail? There was no mention anywhere in the merc pack that CCP would originally reset your SP in the event of commercial release. Commercial release and reset are two separate things that are mutually exclusive as worded by the merc pack during closed beta. Don't twist my words. Where are people getting this idea that a reset was intended for commercial release? for as long as I can remember that was the understanding of the entire community before CCP said no more resets. In fact their are entire threads requesting that we should get some sort of benefit upon release as beta testers. and +1 tidaen.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:33:00 - [39] - Quote actualy this whole mind set that we should be anything but grateful(or afraid that it will kill the game) that there will not be resets, happened only after people found a nice little loophole in the mercpack wording. thats when this became hostile.
HowDidThatTaste Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2366	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:41:00 - [40] - Quote What's the real problem with just honoring the merc pack and giving those who bought them and supported this game with real money. The terms of the agreement? Everyone wants to punish those who purchased merc packs by resetting only those characters, when in reality they just took advantage of sale, that you get to use twice? So what if they get extra boosters, they took advantage of a sale. Maybe everyone would be happy if for one week they offered merc pacs for sale that would also be refunded at commercial release. Allowing everyone to get in on the deal. Announce it for a month so people can save up then everyone you purchase for that time frame is essentially doubled like the original ones. Everyone wins and ccp makes money. Basically a two for one sale.

blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:47:00 - [41] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: blue gt wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. don't care about level I care about double dipping, If this really is about keeping CCP honest or consumer rights then you would accept the refund with reset. if its about anything else....... Just cuz? Seriously, why would we want to get unfairly reset just to receive the stuff we bought? I don't understand your "logic". Will this be your position on any offer CCP puts up that you think is "unfair". "Sure, you can buy an Armored Pack, but you only get half the tanks unless you take a reset. Which isn't mentioned until after you buy it." wouldn't want to be "unfair" or "double dip" amirite? you did receive the stuff you bought and you spent it, every thing you did with that gear will have a consequence in the release you would have gotten twice the gear and twice the benefit with out a reset. This stupid belief that the wording meant anything other the a release day reset only came about when ccp said that was not the case. this is my point no one would accept these terms, the only reasonable ones, unless they were truly being altruistic and not trying to double dip and in the case of the latter YOU CAN GO ** YOUR SELF! you know what it CCP tell these guys they can have their refund and reset every one ** IF I CARE I would rather have that then a victory for these ** gobbling self righteous/serving ass hats that would abuse technicalities just because they can. just give me a way to op out of that refund.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 1999	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:49:00 - [42] - Quote @blue and Tidaen From what you describe, this seems like a community-fostered understanding. Has this been clearly confirmed (as in written in stone aka link) by CCP in the past? Pardon me for asking. I have been around since replication but even veterans can have difficulty remembering that far back for something like this.
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz Noir. Mercenary Group 136	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:52:00 - [43] - Quote Please lock these threads... It isn't commercial release yet so why everybody is trying to come up with solutions and demands right now is irrelevant making these kind of posts INVALID. THE END.
blue gt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2013.04.16 03:28:00 - [44] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Illuminaughty-696 wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA. CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,. EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value. Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base. Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein. Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic. oh god now youve done it brought morality and ethics into it, but it is a good point, it is ethically unsound far more so then CCP not refunding the packs on release, in fact one could say it would be more unethical for CCP to refund the packs then to not, as they would be giving a advantage to closed beta testers over open beta testers.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2597	Posted - 2013.04.16 03:42:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair. I don't think they should have a full SP reset, they should just lose all SP gained through boosters.
Drud Green Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2013.04.16 04:12:00 - [46] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I say reset the characters that want the 're-issue' of the item. Its the only true way to be fair. I don't think they should have a full SP reset, they should just lose all SP gained through boosters. How long has New Eden cared about fairness? Htfu
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1141	Posted - 2013.04.16 04:26:00 - [47] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: What's the real problem with just honoring the merc pack and giving those who bought them and supported this game with real money. The terms of the agreement? Everyone wants to punish those who purchased merc packs by resetting only those characters, when in reality they just took advantage of sale, that you get to use twice? So what if they get extra boosters, they took advantage of a sale. Maybe everyone would be happy if for one week they offered merc pacs for sale that would also be refunded at commercial release. Allowing everyone to get in on the deal. Announce it for a month so people can save up then everyone you purchase for that time frame is essentially doubled like the original ones. Everyone wins and ccp makes money. Basically a two for one sale. This is a great idea honestly. I just don't understand what everyone's problem is with the Merc Pack refund. They keep making all of these arguments, but I can't make heads or tails of their reasoning, logic, or motivations. It just seems like misplaced anger. I didn't make the Merc Pack or put it up for sale, I just bought the thing. It's not my fault CCP changed their plans. Just because THEY change what they are doing, doesn't mean I shouldn't get what I purchased anymore (or at least something of equal value). I see people saying that the assumption was that there would be a reset at commercial release. I don't know about you, but I don't make purchased based off of unspoken assumptions. This situation is a perfect example of WHY. I bought a Merc Pack under the specific terms that I would receive a refund of all items used during the beta at Commercial Release. That's what I was sold. When they made the announcement about "no more SP resets", again, a bunch of people made assumptions. Nowhere did CCP say anything about the Merc Pack terms changing. Not once. They still haven't said anything about it, at least, not really. I continued to operate under the written agreement I had with CCP, that I could use all of those items and that Aurum during the beta, and it would be refunded at release. Again, they never said otherwise, and they had put it in writing. Why would I assume anything had changed? Just cuz. Cuz some forum warrior has a theory. It's absolutely ridiculous. The irony of these people with their juvenile arguments calling ME the child is telling of the quality of minds that frequent these boards. Ever wonder why it's always the same 15 or 20 clowns posting (myself included most of the time)? It's because all anyone here does is troll each other. But this is a situation in which we get to see what CCP are actually made of. Whether they can follow through with anything. The endless empty promises and pipe dreams about SOON are amusing when it's all about the F2P stuff, but this is real people money. This is the part where we figure out if we should trust them with our actual money.
Tidaen Nova Corps Marines 39	Posted - 2013.04.16 04:57:00 - [48] - Quote Honestly, I have no problem with CCP giving out free merc packs to those who were fortunate to purchase one early on the game. However if this comes at the cost of a mandatory character reset for everyone on launch day, then I would very much like to see some other sort of solution be proposed so as to prevent this. My arguments are not based on any malice towards those who expect CCP to re-issue the merc pack. I've just realized that I have been rather swept away by all this forum rage without actually seeing any source material from CCP. How much of this debate is based upon speculation and how much is based upon actual comments made from CCP employees? If we are all just shouting in the dark at each other, perhaps it would be a better usage of time to request clarification from CCP and give them time to formulate a sane response.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2000	Posted - 2013.04.16 05:36:00 - [49] - Quote Tidaen wrote: Honestly, I have no problem with CCP giving out free merc packs to those who were fortunate to purchase one early on the game. However if this comes at the cost of a mandatory character reset for everyone on launch day, then I would very much like to see some other sort of solution be proposed so as to prevent this. My arguments are not based on any malice towards those who expect CCP to re-issue the merc pack. I've just realized that I have been rather swept away by all this forum rage without actually seeing any source material from CCP. How much of this debate is based upon speculation and how much is based upon actual comments made from CCP employees? If we are all just shouting in the dark at each other, perhaps it would be a better usage of time to request clarification from CCP and give them time to formulate a sane response. That is another point I'm trying to make in my original post. Too many assumptions with too little hard evidence. It's like we're inventing evidence out of thin air here and that is what I believe to be the source of all of this endless debate, thread after endless thread. I believe it is high time that CCP start coming out of the shadows and speak up for once on this. We need an official statement on this right now as this is getting way out of control and not a day goes by now that I don't see new refund threads popping up. CCP, where is that dev blog/announcement you promised us that addresses this? Those details better be worth the wait and needlessly spent aspirin.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1144	Posted - 2013.04.16 08:35:00 - [50] - Quote Let's not get ahead of ourselves here Maken. There's basically 10 or 20 dudes shooting the **** about this here, on a message board that basically no one uses. To pretend like it's some sort of massive movement, or huge monkey wrench in CCPs plans is laughable at best.

Three Double-A Batteries Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 103	Posted - 2013.04.16 09:54:00 - [51] - Quote Why are you guys making this hard for yourselves? Just wait for the decision CCP may eventually make - i.e. this heap of crap may never get out of beta. If they do make one and you don't think it is accordance with the T&Cs then just do a credit card charge back. No need for elaborate plans or choices.
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 251	Posted - 2013.04.16 14:37:00 - [52] - Quote blue gt wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: [quote=Ryder Azorria]Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic. oh god now youve done it brought morality and ethics into it, but it is a good point, it is ethically unsound far more so then CCP not refunding the packs on release, in fact one could say it would be more unethical for CCP to refund the packs then to not, as they would be giving a advantage to closed beta testers over open beta testers. The fact that some of you actually believe consumers have no moral right to what they paid for is unbelievable. We paid for a merc pack that would be refunded on every reset AND commercial release. Simple. But clearly you don't get that. I'm no longer going to try to convince you how wrong you are. Your view of reality is clearly far too gone for any words to change it. Again, CCP screwed up here, but that's not the fault of the players who bought the packs. This CCP White Knight Syndrome is ridiculous. You're beginning to sound like fanatics (the root word of fan interestingly). As far as logic goes, try sitting on the ground and observing the sun and how the earth moves in relation to it. Your observations would make it appear the sun is moving around the earth, not the other way around. It's called a logical fallacy, much like your so-called logic here, except I'll call it what it really is, logic fail. But you are right, though. Some people are indeed immume to logic and common sense. Thanks for proving both. P.S. Yeah, the troll in me came back and had to respond. Meh.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2517	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:19:00 - [53] - Quote Three Double-A Batteries wrote: Why are you guys making this hard for yourselves? Just wait for the decision CCP may eventually make - i.e. this heap of crap may never get out of beta. If they do make one and you don't think it is accordance with the T&Cs then just do a credit card charge back. No need for elaborate plans or choices. Depending on bank, there's a maximum of 2 months from date of purchase to initiate a chargeback. Sometimes as little as 30 days. Think we'll have hit commercial release and seen what happened within 2 months of a Merc Pack purchase that was made almost a year ago? Didn't think so. In saying this, any debate we have here is purely intellectual, since we don't know what CCP are planning. Until we do, no progress can actually be made. All these threads are achieving nothing more than simply keeping the problem visible. While that alone is worthwhile, I don't think any of us should assume that our particular viewpoint is (or deserves to be) more valid than the rest. So the "wait and see" part of the above quoted post is really the best advice. (even if I'm going to keep posting my personal opinion regardless)
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 17	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:25:00 - [54] - Quote can we move these to the requests and issues page? maybe a moderator can get involved and move all these threads?
Kamiya Musume Suffer Inc. 109	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:25:00 - [55] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: As far as logic goes, try sitting on the ground and observing the sun and how the earth moves in relation to it. Your observations would make it appear the sun is moving around the earth, not the other way around. It's called a logical fallacy, much like your so-called logic here, except I'll call it what it really is, logic fail. But you are right, though. Some people are indeed immume to logic and common sense. Thanks for proving both. P.S. Yeah, the troll in me came back and had to respond. Meh. Unfortunately, sitting on the ground observing the passage of the Sun could also lead you to the conclusion that BOTH ARE STATIONARY AND THE EARTH MERELY SPINS ON IT'S AXIS. talk about logic fail. *smh
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2517	Posted - 2013.04.16 15:57:00 - [56] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: The fact that some of you actually believe consumers have no moral right to what they paid for is unbelievable. We paid for a merc pack that would be refunded on every reset AND commercial release. Simple. But clearly you don't get that. I'm no longer going to try to convince you how wrong you are. Your view of reality is clearly far too gone for any words to change it. Again, CCP screwed up here, but that's not the fault of the players who bought the packs. This CCP White Knight Syndrome is ridiculous. You're beginning to sound like fanatics (the root word of fan interestingly). As a fan of DUST, I have to say I'm offended by the way I'm being lumped in with the people who are claiming there's a valid argument against the Merc Pack credits. I don't support the people saying they get "a second Merc Pack free" on release - the terms were a "full credit" of the contents of the Pack, which is slightly different. To re-use (as I have previously) the "Golden Gun" example that was used earlier, there are two possibilities: 1. A "golden gun" BPO - if you still have it, you don't get a second one. You can only be eligible for a credit on something you spent, not on something you still have. If you deleted it, when release hits, you get a replacement. 2. A "golden gun" BPC - if you still have it, you don't get a second one. Same reasoning as fort he BPO. There's a much better chance in this case of the player in question no longer having their BPC, however, since it wil be destroyed if you die using it. Using the HK4M Shotgun as an example, that's a 50-item limited run set of Shotguns with good stats and no skill prerequisites. They're awesome, but we all know that you only get the 50 you bought, and when they're gone, the only way to get more is from another Merc Pack. EXCEPT that we've also been told in clear and unambiguous terms that, if we bought our Merc Pack under the old (or Gamestop's) conditions, we're eligible for them to be credited back to our accounts on commercial release. Not "at every reset including the one at commercial release", but "every character reset AND for commercial release" - if that implies anything, it implies that there WON'T be a reset on release, except for the contents of the Merc Pack. If you know that using the item means you don't get it back ever under any circumstances if you die, many players WON'T be using those items. People who bought the Merc Pack after the change in terms, this includes you. If you know that no matter what happens, on the game's official release day there will be 50 HK4Ms in your name, it won't matter that you managed to burn through them all trying to kill a competent Sagaris driver with your Shotgun Scout.
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2004	Posted - 2013.04.16 19:16:00 - [57] - Quote Overall, this conversation has led me to believe that the fairest thing for CCP to do in terms of appeasing both sides of the debate and as well as following the literal interpretations of the merc pack descriptions is to simply allow players to choose whether or not they want a refund via an in game message. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND... That choosing either option will not result in a complete reset because the descriptions in closed beta and in Gamestop made no mention whatsoever of a reset needed upon commercial release. Also, the option should only effect purchases of the merc packs made during closed beta and, if possible to track, those bought under terms mentioned by Gamestop. I remember bringing up the possibility of any negative impact on the economy of DUST as a result of this in a previous (but now locked) thread. However that post was made under the assumption that the DUST economy will open up in the next build. But since CCP now confirmed that the economy will remain closed for the next build, the possibility of a negative impact is gone. One more thing to point out. Many of you appear to believe that the original terms were understood to include a reset upon commercial release even though the original terms made no such mention. This understanding appears to be community-fostered and so far I don't see anyone posting from CCP with an official declaration of such a thing. Therefore this understanding will have to be regarded as just another assumption.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2535	Posted - 2013.04.16 19:35:00 - [58] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Many of you appear to believe that the original terms were understood to include a reset upon commercial release even though the original terms made no such mention. This understanding appears to be community-fostered and so far I don't see anyone posting from CCP with an official declaration of such a thing. Therefore this understanding will have to be regarded as just another assumption. These terms? http://www.dust411.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MercPackTerms.jpg I'm pretty sure that states pretty clearly that the Merc Pack contents will be credited back on commercial release. It doesn't state they'll be credited back exactly as they are in their current state, but that CCP can "substitute items of similar value" if they choose. As always though, waiting on official word from CCP...
Maken Tosch OPERATIVES OF THE GOAT 2005	Posted - 2013.04.16 20:14:00 - [59] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Many of you appear to believe that the original terms were understood to include a reset upon commercial release even though the original terms made no such mention. This understanding appears to be community-fostered and so far I don't see anyone posting from CCP with an official declaration of such a thing. Therefore this understanding will have to be regarded as just another assumption. These terms? http://www.dust411.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MercPackTerms.jpg I'm pretty sure that states pretty clearly that the Merc Pack contents will be credited back on commercial release. It doesn't state they'll be credited back exactly as they are in their current state, but that CCP can "substitute items of similar value" if they choose. As always though, waiting on official word from CCP... I was referring to the kind of reset that results in your character getting set back to zero. The credit of the merc pack contents (or equivalent thereof) is something I already know about.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2538	Posted - 2013.04.16 20:27:00 - [60] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Many of you appear to believe that the original terms were understood to include a reset upon commercial release even though the original terms made no such mention. This understanding appears to be community-fostered and so far I don't see anyone posting from CCP with an official declaration of such a thing. Therefore this understanding will have to be regarded as just another assumption. These terms? http://www.dust411.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MercPackTerms.jpg I'm pretty sure that states pretty clearly that the Merc Pack contents will be credited back on commercial release. It doesn't state they'll be credited back exactly as they are in their current state, but that CCP can "substitute items of similar value" if they choose. As always though, waiting on official word from CCP... I was referring to the kind of reset that results in your character getting set back to zero. The credit of the merc pack contents (or equivalent thereof) is something I already know about. That has the full terms which actually imply the exact opposite of a reset at release. The terms "character reset" and "commercial release" are listed separately as conditions for the same thing, making it obvious that there isn't a correlation between the two.



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