DUST Search - [Recommendation] - Make Refunds an Option, Not Mandatory

Ryder Azorria wrote:

Illuminaughty-696 wrote:

Ryder Azorria wrote:

Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it Blink

). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA.

CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,.

EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value.

Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base.

Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein.

Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic.


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Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1128	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:54:00 - [1] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. You argue for fairness, yet you want CCP to give you and a few other players free stuff you don't deserve. Interesting, I guess some players are more equal than others. And FYI, the optional reset for refund proposal is the fairest deal in the table - for EVERYONE. It's not "free stuff" if you paid $20 for it. How is this difficult to understand? I bought a Merc Pack under the specific agreement that I would get all that stuff back at Commercial Release. That's WHAT WE PAID FOR. Requiring a reset to actually get the stuff you bought is akin to RANSOM. "Yeah, you've already paid for this... but if you actually want to receive it, you have to take a reset". How is that in any way "fair", and how specifically, is it "unfair" to get the rest of the stuff we paid for in the Merc Pack? Who is it "unfair" for? Other players? If that's the case, take it up with CCP, they are the ones that SOLD the thing, we just BOUGHT it. Don't punish the people who bought Merc Packs just because you think CCP sold an "unfair" items, that's ridiculous. Anyhow, it doesn't matter, looks like CCP agrees with... well, themselves. They have stated that they have a reimbursement program that they will reveal at a later date, I assume they intend to honor the "or items of equal value" part of the agreement.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1128	Posted - 2013.04.15 19:57:00 - [2] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Illuminaughty-696 wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Firstly you have questionable legal grounds at best for demanding a refund, gotta love that EULA (you signed away your consumer rights with regards to in game items and currency - in case you forgot to read the legally binding document before signing it ). Secondly, even if CCP is legally obligated to give you your stuff back, they still have the legal right to destroy your existing stuff first, again, gotta love that EULA. CCP agreed to a purchase agreement that stated the merc pack would be refunded upon commercial release.. However, yes, they could delete anyone's character,. EULAs attempt to argue you have no rights to any of the 'virtual' property, but plenty of EULA's have had clauses proven unenforceable and voidable in court. The entire virtual property concept is relatively new and its legal implications are still being determined. Would it hold up in court? The at times obnoxious thing about the legal system in many places today is that i the end result is not always what it could or should logically be, especially when dealing with such novel concepts as virtual property with real world value. Regardless, the damage CCP would do to their image as a corporation that can be trusted and deserve to be supported would not be insignificant if they took the approach you suggest. They would be walking the same path as EA, now synonomous with bad customer service, horrible incomplete games, and screwing over their customer base. Unlike EA, CCP has a solid reputation that they should and likely will seek to maintain. Deleting characters of paying customers simply for expecting what they paid for would do as much, if not more damage, than any court case. I'm not even sure why I'm arguing these points in the forums except CCP has shown they can sometimes consider all the QQ in these forums far too much and if more sane, less idiotic viewpoints aren't offered then all CCP sees is the idiocy many spew herein. Putting any legal stuff aside for now, you seem to have conveniently skipped over the part where you you have no Moral right to demand a second, free, merc pack. Basically YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR - YOU PAID FOR A MERC PACK (or whatever) AND YOU GOT A MERC PACK, UNLESS CCP DOES SOMETHING TO REMOVE SAID MERC PACK, YOU SHOULD NOT GET ANOTHER. Caps lock used in an attempt to make it sink in, but alas, some people are simply immune to logic. It's not a "ANOTHER merc pack" it's all part of the one they sold. We still haven't received all of the items sold in the merc pack, because the rest of it comes at commercial release.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1130	Posted - 2013.04.15 23:52:00 - [3] - Quote Plastic-Jesus wrote: Baal Roo wrote: [quote=Ryder Azorria][quote=JL3Eleven] I bought a Merc Pack under the specific agreement that I would get all that stuff back at Commercial Release. That's WHAT WE PAID FOR. With the assumption that there would be a reset at Commercial Release. I made no such assumption, don't punish me for CCP's mistakes.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1132	Posted - 2013.04.16 01:26:00 - [4] - Quote blue gt wrote: JL3Eleven wrote: If you wipe one single person wipe everyone. Wanna be level then set the bar level. don't care about level I care about double dipping, If this really is about keeping CCP honest or consumer rights then you would accept the refund with reset. if its about anything else....... Just cuz? Seriously, why would we want to get unfairly reset just to receive the stuff we bought? I don't understand your "logic".
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1141	Posted - 2013.04.16 04:26:00 - [5] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: What's the real problem with just honoring the merc pack and giving those who bought them and supported this game with real money. The terms of the agreement? Everyone wants to punish those who purchased merc packs by resetting only those characters, when in reality they just took advantage of sale, that you get to use twice? So what if they get extra boosters, they took advantage of a sale. Maybe everyone would be happy if for one week they offered merc pacs for sale that would also be refunded at commercial release. Allowing everyone to get in on the deal. Announce it for a month so people can save up then everyone you purchase for that time frame is essentially doubled like the original ones. Everyone wins and ccp makes money. Basically a two for one sale. This is a great idea honestly. I just don't understand what everyone's problem is with the Merc Pack refund. They keep making all of these arguments, but I can't make heads or tails of their reasoning, logic, or motivations. It just seems like misplaced anger. I didn't make the Merc Pack or put it up for sale, I just bought the thing. It's not my fault CCP changed their plans. Just because THEY change what they are doing, doesn't mean I shouldn't get what I purchased anymore (or at least something of equal value). I see people saying that the assumption was that there would be a reset at commercial release. I don't know about you, but I don't make purchased based off of unspoken assumptions. This situation is a perfect example of WHY. I bought a Merc Pack under the specific terms that I would receive a refund of all items used during the beta at Commercial Release. That's what I was sold. When they made the announcement about "no more SP resets", again, a bunch of people made assumptions. Nowhere did CCP say anything about the Merc Pack terms changing. Not once. They still haven't said anything about it, at least, not really. I continued to operate under the written agreement I had with CCP, that I could use all of those items and that Aurum during the beta, and it would be refunded at release. Again, they never said otherwise, and they had put it in writing. Why would I assume anything had changed? Just cuz. Cuz some forum warrior has a theory. It's absolutely ridiculous. The irony of these people with their juvenile arguments calling ME the child is telling of the quality of minds that frequent these boards. Ever wonder why it's always the same 15 or 20 clowns posting (myself included most of the time)? It's because all anyone here does is troll each other. But this is a situation in which we get to see what CCP are actually made of. Whether they can follow through with anything. The endless empty promises and pipe dreams about SOON are amusing when it's all about the F2P stuff, but this is real people money. This is the part where we figure out if we should trust them with our actual money.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1144	Posted - 2013.04.16 08:35:00 - [6] - Quote Let's not get ahead of ourselves here Maken. There's basically 10 or 20 dudes shooting the **** about this here, on a message board that basically no one uses. To pretend like it's some sort of massive movement, or huge monkey wrench in CCPs plans is laughable at best.